2008/2009 St. Louis Cardinals Offseason News

[FaytownHog]

i mean really, with all the bust that we've given millions too over the past few years, many of them who didn't even play, like that pitcher last year, i got so mad at him i forgot his name, (used to play for the redsox), and now they won't even get some good healthy talent when we have the money. that discust me. hard to be a fan of an organization like that. especially when you are watching the cubs pick up some good names. urg.

agreed. there have been so many opprotunites to pick up a big name. Peavey, Sheets, just to name a few pitchers. Fuentes coulda woulda shoula been a card. it just doesnt add up that the only real signing weve had is a average at best ss. ps +1 for the strongbad avatar

[Jacob "2 Scoops" Johnson]

now that you mentioned that red sox guy, it has been bugging me. haha. lets see, are you talking about matt clement? if so i share your frustration. he was good for the cubs, but went downhill after that. and i like what we have in the farm system, but it would be nice to have big names mentor them.

[FaytownHog]

that would be the guy! I think he made about 1.5 mil doing as much as I did for the cardinals last year. And carpenter made serious bank for basically nothing, but atleast he's done something in the past.

now that you mentioned that red sox guy, it has been bugging me. haha. lets see, are you talking about matt clement? if so i share your frustration. he was good for the cubs, but went downhill after that. and i like what we have in the farm system, but it would be nice to have big names mentor them.

[ErieHog]

This here ^

Looks like 75-80 wins to me.

[Hogtropolis™]

that would be the guy! I think he made about 1.5 mil doing as much as I did for the cardinals last year. And carpenter made serious bank for basically nothing, but atleast he's done something in the past.

I a pretty sure is was a $1.0 mil contract, but I definitely understand what you are saying.  I was actually semi-excited about that signing when it happened thinking that he would be a great project for Dave Duncan, but he never got healthy to show whether or not it was a good signing or not and then we decided not to resign him again this year.  I guess that just decided to cut their losses and move on.

The offseason is still not over, but I am not holding out a lot of hope.

[FaytownHog]

i'm not either. it seems like they've let just about everybody with a big name get signed elsewhere. doesn't even seem like they were in negociations with any of them. just like they aren't even trying. that's what sucks so bad.

I a pretty sure is was a $1.0 mil contract, but I definitely understand what you are saying.  I was actually semi-excited about that signing when it happened thinking that he would be a great project for Dave Duncan, but he never got healthy to show whether or not it was a good signing or not and then we decided not to resign him again this year.  I guess that just decided to cut their losses and move on.

The offseason is still not over, but I am not holding out a lot of hope.

[Jacob "2 Scoops" Johnson]

so far, i give mozliak a grade of C-
i mean he has really done nothing.

[FaytownHog]

agreed. he's pretty well just kept the players from a subpar, playoff missing team. and didn't really bring in anything (except for a few exceptions of course)

so far, i give mozliak a grade of C-
i mean he has really done nothing.

[champ]

I wonder how much the economy has effected our ownership not going after any of the big name free agents, not keeping a great utility and fan favorite in Miles, not owning are triple a Memphis when we were suppose to purchase this year, etc

[A-Town Hog Fan]

Should have plenty of $$$ after the AB sale.

[Hogtropolis™]

Great news guys.  We resigned Chris Duncan.  I was afraid we would let him get away.  With his outfield skills improving and him finally healthy, he has a ton of potential.  It would have been horrible to see him slip through the cracks.  And to think, we are only paying him $875,000.  Steal of a deal if you ask me. (end sarcasm now)

Righty Todd Wellemeyer and Chris Duncan agreed to terms on Monday. Wellemeyer will make $4.05 million, and Duncan will receive $825,000, also according to AP reports.

[A-Town Hog Fan]

That is great news?

[LVW]

Glaus will miss at least the first part of the season:
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/6D7842289569D8198625754600645790?OpenDocument

[dacskc]

Great news guys.  We resigned Chris Duncan.  I was afraid we would let him get away.  With his outfield skills improving and him finally healthy, he has a ton of potential.  It would have been horrible to see him slip through the cracks.  And to think, we are only paying him $875,000.  Steal of a deal if you ask me. (end sarcasm now)

Righty Todd Wellemeyer and Chris Duncan agreed to terms on Monday. Wellemeyer will make $4.05 million, and Duncan will receive $825,000, also according to AP reports.

Woo Hoo!!!! Herman Munster is back in left. I just love the graceful way he crashes into the wall, or stops short as a lazy fly hits the grass.

And to make matters worse, the Cubs were purchased by a Cubs fan. Would it not be nice if the Card's ownership actually cared about the team? This makes me SICK.

At least I can enjoy watching Todd in ST. Pitchers and catchers report Feb 14th.

[dacskc]

Ok, so I was watching the replay of 2006 NLCS gm 7 on MLB channel, and they have a scroll across the bottom of the screen listing the off-season pickups for each team. Apparently in addition to Miller and Greene, we have Royce Ring. "Who the crap is Royce Ring?"...you ask...feast your eyes on this: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7529.

Man, our management is working hard.


(for some reason the link doesn't take you to the player info, click on Cardinals, and then player name)

[Hogtropolis™]

That 8.46 ERA from last year must have really got the management excited.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

Glaus needs to go... he's one of those old school steroid guys and he's too large to be playing 3b

[dacskc]

Glaus needs to go... he's one of those old school steroid guys and he's too large to be playing 3b

I'd be willing to bet Mr. Wallace gets a good a look in ST. I know how Tony feels about giving the young ones PT, but from what I've heard, this guy is just tearing up everybody. If I'm not mistaken, he ended the year in Springfield. The boy can definitely hit...but I don't know a lot about the defense. (I would think he has more promise than David Friese).

[FaytownHog]

hopefully our boy todd will make it up to st.louis this year, so atleast that will be a rooting interest!

[dacskc]

hopefully our boy todd will make it up to st.louis this year, so atleast that will be a rooting interest!

We need something good, that's for sure. My doctor just told me I had high blood pressure, and to avoid stress...so far, this baseball season is looking as if it's not gonna help matters any.

[Hogtropolis™]

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090123&content_id=3767218&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

The prospects are David Freese, who spent last year at Triple-A Memphis and is the current favorite according to Mozeliak, top 2008 First-Year Player Draft pick Brett Wallace and Allen Craig. Brendan Ryan, Brian Barden and Joe Mather have all at least made an appearance at third in the Majors. Then there's utility man Joe Thurston, in camp on a Minor League contract, and prospect Tyler Greene, a shortstop who played all over the infield in the Arizona Fall League.

Of course, the Cards also have one other player who came up as a third baseman. But given his troublesome throwing elbow, there's zero chance that Albert Pujols will move across the diamond in Glaus' absence.

[Oklahawg]

Royce Ring came over from the Mets.

Several years back he was a top closer prospect in the White Sox chain. Not sure what happened.

[Oklahawg]

Are Ben Sheets and Oliver Perez still available? I'd dangle decent coin to get either/both.

Pitching worries me more than offense.

[Hogtropolis™]

Are Ben Sheets and Oliver Perez still available? I'd dangle decent coin to get either/both.

Pitching worries me more than offense.

For a minute there I thought you were talking about Odalis Perez (aka Pujols' batting practice pitcher).

I would love it if the Cards would sign Sheets regardless of his injury history.  If he is healthy, he is dominate.

I would also be pleased with Oliver Perez given we don't have a good/decent/serviceable lefty starter on the roster.

[LVW]

Royce Ring came over from the Mets.

Several years back he was a top closer prospect in the White Sox chain. Not sure what happened.

Several factors could be the cause:
1. Minor league closer prospects seldom turn into quality major league closers.
2. He was with the White Sox for just 1 year before being traded to the Mets and wasn't going to pass Heath Bell in the pecking order.
3. Lefties have to be dominant(ala Billy Wagner, BJ Ryan, etc.) or be tough on righties(ala John Franco with his screwball lor Brian Fuentes) to get a chance to close and he wasn't really that dominant or that tough on righties.


For whatever reason lefties that become closers are more likely to experience short term success in that role(Mitch Williams, John Rocker, Eddie Guardado, Willie Hernandez, Alan Embree, Dan Plesac, Greg Minton) than long term success(Wagner, Franco, Randy Myers)

[dhornjr1]

I know it won't happen, but me and my dad(a sixty year Cardinal fan) were talking the other day and we both believe the setup and closer roles need to go to Chris Perez and Jason Motte. They're interchangeable and could do either spot well.

Of course, LaRussa won't use a youngster in those roles unless he's backed into a corner a la the 2006 playoffs and Adam Wainwright.

I know we have only a few years of Albert Pujols left before he begins the inexorable decline but I think they need to play the kids this year, take it on the chin, and look to 2010.

Play Rasmus every day in center, move Ankiel and his cannon to right, Schumacher in left, Jess Todd and Mitchell Boggs starting, and Perez and Motte in the pen.

Please, God, by all that's holy, don't let Jason Isringhausen sniff Busch Stadium unless he's sniffing the dogs at the concession stand.

[dhornjr1]

Several factors could be the cause:
1. Minor league closer prospects seldom turn into quality major league closers.
2. He was with the White Sox for just 1 year before being traded to the Mets and wasn't going to pass Heath Bell in the pecking order.
3. Lefties have to be dominant(ala Billy Wagner, BJ Ryan, etc.) or be tough on righties(ala John Franco with his screwball lor Brian Fuentes) to get a chance to close and he wasn't really that dominant or that tough on righties.


For whatever reason lefties that become closers are more likely to experience short term success in that role(Mitch Williams, John Rocker, Eddie Guardado, Willie Hernandez, Alan Embree, Dan Plesac, Greg Minton) than long term success(Wagner, Franco, Randy Myers)

I never thought about it, but you're right. Lefties don't seem to have the kind of sustained success as closers as righties do. Maybe it has something to do with the way managers are so into the situational stuff these days.

There were a lot of good lefty relievers back in the day, but things were different then. That's when closers would pitch two, three, sometimes four innings to close a game. And managers wouldn't change pitchers two or three times in an inning like they do now.

[Hogtropolis™]

I know it won't happen, but me and my dad(a sixty year Cardinal fan) were talking the other day and we both believe the setup and closer roles need to go to Chris Perez and Jason Motte. They're interchangeable and could do either spot well.

Of course, LaRussa won't use a youngster in those roles unless he's backed into a corner a la the 2006 playoffs and Adam Wainwright.

I know we have only a few years of Albert Pujols left before he begins the inexorable decline but I think they need to play the kids this year, take it on the chin, and look to 2010.

Play Rasmus every day in center, move Ankiel and his cannon to right, Schumacher in left, Jess Todd and Mitchell Boggs starting, and Perez and Motte in the pen.

Please, God, by all that's holy, don't let Jason Isringhausen sniff Busch Stadium unless he's sniffing the dogs at the concession stand.

You might get your wish.  I believe that either Motte or Perez will be closing this year (probably Perez since he got a little experience doing it last year) and it will be because LaRussa is backed into a corner.  I don't think there are any other closers out there worthy of signing and I haven't heard talk of a trade.

[Jacob "2 Scoops" Johnson]

to sum up my thoughts in a single word: FRUSTERATING.

[Hogtropolis™]

I know we really need pitching more than anything, but how sweet would this be.  Pujols and Manny on the same team.  That would be 2 of the top 5 hitters in the game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3870198

[clifflee4mvp]

I know we really need pitching more than anything, but how sweet would this be.  Pujols and Manny on the same team.  That would be 2 of the top 5 hitters in the game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3870198

i don't want manny anywhere near the cardinals.

[Hogtropolis™]

i don't want manny anywhere near the cardinals.

I do.  He's a winner.  There's not been many teams that he's played for that haven't won.

[dacskc]

I would take Manny in a heartbeat, everyone knows he's a mercenary...so he might as well be ours.

But, I imagine this will be the same thing as me wanting any number of other players we could've had....not gonna happen. Cheap *%$#!!'s!

[FaytownHog]

everytime i open this thread it reangers me towards the cardinals oranization and their cheap arses!

[dacskc]

everytime i open this thread it reangers me towards the cardinals oranization and their cheap arses!

Yeah...you think we'd be used to it.

Anybody know the status of Ballpark Village? Maybe after they get finished putting in the Starbucks,Krispy Kremes, and umpteenbillionth souvenir shop
(that nobody cares about) they will pony up for some talent.

[clifflee4mvp]

I do.  He's a winner.  There's not been many teams that he's played for that haven't won.

unless he can pitch, it won't matter. he would tie up a huge amount of money that should've been spent on some pitching.

[Jacob "2 Scoops" Johnson]

Cards look to be in mix for Arizona closer Brandon Lyon. They also contacted the Yankees about Robinson Cano, but they wanted Wainwright for him, the Cards said no thanks.
as for manny..
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090129&content_id=3784024&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

[dacskc]

Cards look to be in mix for Arizona closer Brandon Lyon. They also contacted the Yankees about Robinson Cano, but they wanted Wainwright for him, the Cards said no thanks.
as for manny..
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090129&content_id=3784024&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

Mozeliak certainly knows how to endear himself to fans.

Who needs Manny when we have the tobacco-chewing-Mendoza-line-hitting-fencepost patrolling (I mean planted) out in left for a mere 800 grand?

WOOO-freakin-HOOO.

[FaytownHog]

at the end of the article, it says that pujols passed on mannys number to tony larussa, then this morning msn was saying that manny rejected the dodgers latest deal. so technically no one wants manny? maybe tony will, and if he does, then that may carry some weight! like the other guy said, i would be a little worried about the locker room effect, but if pujols can keep him in check, he might could be ok! i'm with ImHogginit, here's to dreaming! it may be all we've got this year!

Cards look to be in mix for Arizona closer Brandon Lyon. They also contacted the Yankees about Robinson Cano, but they wanted Wainwright for him, the Cards said no thanks.
as for manny..
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090129&content_id=3784024&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

[dacskc]

Maybe we will use the 20 million it would take to get Manny and sign 3 or 4 quality pitchers 

I can dream can't I ?

Yes, (what else can we do?) but they passed up the 3 or 4 quality pitchers before they passed on Manny. sigh. But keep the fingers crossed, they surprised us with Larry Walker once...oh wait...nevermind. Mozeliak is nothing more than a propagandist. He tells us we don't really want what we want, and why we're gonna like it. I think management is using "Animal Farm" as a business plan.

[Hogtropolis™]

Yes, (what else can we do?) but they passed up the 3 or 4 quality pitchers before they passed on Manny. sigh. But keep the fingers crossed, they surprised us with Larry Walker once...oh wait...nevermind. Mozeliak is nothing more than a propagandist. He tells us we don't really want what we want, and why we're gonna like it. I think management is using "Animal Farm" as a business plan.

Mo didn't get Larry Walker that was Jocketty.  I have a hard time thinking of 1 thing that Mo has done to really help the team out.  Getting Glaus maybe?

I'm still holding out hope for Sheets.  And yes, I know that is wishful thinking.

[FaytownHog]

Has glaus even panned out? Rolen is the best third baseman alive when he's not hurt. Obviously a-rod is a better bat but rolen usually was a threat. The only thing that move helped was chemistry ( bc he and Larissa didn't get along )

Mo didn't get Larry Walker that was Jocketty.  I have a hard time thinking of 1 thing that Mo has done to really help the team out.  Getting Glaus maybe?

I'm still holding out hope for Sheets.  And yes, I know that is wishful thinking.

[Hogtropolis™]

Has glaus even panned out? Rolen is the best third baseman alive when he's not hurt. Obviously a-rod is a better bat but rolen usually was a threat. The only thing that move helped was chemistry ( bc he and Larissa didn't get along )

Not looking at stats or anything, but I think that Glaus had a better year at the plate than Rolen and had a higher fielding percentage than Rolen as well.  Now Rolen would have probably made some plays that Glaus couldn't get to, but I actually think that trade was pretty fair.  I think it worked out well for both parties involved.

[dacskc]

Mo didn't get Larry Walker that was Jocketty.  I have a hard time thinking of 1 thing that Mo has done to really help the team out.  Getting Glaus maybe?

I'm still holding out hope for Sheets.  And yes, I know that is wishful thinking.

Yeah, that's why I put "nevermind". My sarcasm is becoming too vague . Mo hasn't done a damn thing. I wonder if the Cards PTB really believe the fanbase is blinded by their "spin"?
I think maybe they've managed to convince themselves with the double-talk...the average Card fan is too smart.

[dacskc]

Not looking at stats or anything, but I think that Glaus had a better year at the plate than Rolen and had a higher fielding percentage than Rolen as well.  Now Rolen would have probably made some plays that Glaus couldn't get to, but I actually think that trade was pretty fair.  I think it worked out well for both parties involved.

I don't have a problem w/ the Glaus trade either. The talent discrepancy wasn't as big as what I feared, plus Glaus saw the field way more than Rolen. Pretty even all things considered. I still wonder what the personality conflict was with Tony. In interviews they both come across as slightly humorless and a little arrogant. I don't know if that was it, or if there was some legit "on the field" issue. (sitting out the NLCS gm 2??? Surely not)

Greene, I think, is a little bit of a trade up. Trever Miller, I'm not that familiar with, and Royce Ring (at least on paper) negates everyone else!
So once again, we are left with looking to the rookies and the long-awaited Carp report.

[Jacob "2 Scoops" Johnson]

I don't have a problem w/ the Glaus trade either. The talent discrepancy wasn't as big as what I feared, plus Glaus saw the field way more than Rolen. Pretty even all things considered. I still wonder what the personality conflict was with Tony. In interviews they both come across as slightly humorless and a little arrogant. I don't know if that was it, or if there was some legit "on the field" issue. (sitting out the NLCS gm 2??? Surely not)

Greene, I think, is a little bit of a trade up. Trever Miller, I'm not that familiar with, and Royce Ring (at least on paper) negates everyone else!
So once again, we are left with looking to the rookies and the long-awaited Carp report.

there IS one difference though, Rolen has a ring with the Cardinals. But looking at the comments on the link i provided, the other fans dont seem happy at all with MO. Here's to hoping Mo grows a pair and spends a few $

[HoundHog]

I would imagine Mo is being held back on going after Manny or anyone else that the Cardinal nation would love to have by the cheapa$$ ownership.

[dacskc]

I would imagine Mo is being held back on going after Manny or anyone else that the Cardinal nation would love to have by the cheapa$$ ownership.

"Nothing" is the payback we get for being the best fans in baseball.

[dhornjr1]

there IS one difference though, Rolen has a ring with the Cardinals. But looking at the comments on the link i provided, the other fans dont seem happy at all with MO. Here's to hoping Mo grows a pair and spends a few $

It's not that Mozeliak has no testicular fortitude, it's that the people who control the pursestrings tell him what he can and cannot do.

Ownership is willing to spend some money, but they're not willing to go completely in the red to put a winning team on the field. They're hoping to turn a profit every year, and according to Bernie Miklasz, they're doing it with the new ballpark.

[dhornjr1]

Who else wants to see Boggs in the rotation next year?

I know I wouldn't mind it.

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=605592