Auto sales WAAAAAY off for November

[HognotinMemphis]

And I mean never happened before off. No one is buying a car.

Ford's US sales off  31% for November.

Toyota's US sales off 34% for November.

Honda's US sales off 32% for November.

GM and Chrysler report November sales later today.

This is unprecedented. In light of this, I say bale them out so that they can continue to not sell cars.

[Ash]

My mother-in-law works in the accounting department at a large auto dealership in central arkansas (well, they own dealerships all over arkansas). I'm actually starting to get worried about her job.

[HOGSCALD]

And I mean never happened before off. No one is buying a car.

Ford's US sales off  31% for November.

Toyota's US sales off 34% for November.

Honda's US sales off 32% for November.

GM and Chrysler report November sales later today.

This is unprecedented. In light of this, I say bale them out so that they can continue to not sell cars.

Last night I was with the Parts Manager for a large multi-store Ford and Mercury dealer.  I asked him how sales were and he just stared at me for a moment, I guess wondering if I was being facetious.  Then he asked if I knew what a cliff was.  He said about the only bright spot on the horizon was interest in the new F150 but said you had to look real hard to see that pinpoint of light.  He said they had been having a lot of talk about the number of dealerships that have gone out of business and the ones that were going to go.

[GrizzledHogFan]

FYI, GM sales were down 41% and Chrysler sales were down 47% per CNBC.

[HognotinMemphis]

Well, when you have ** pricing, a ** buisness plan, a ** and antiquated technology (the century+ old combustion engine running on refined oil) and stupid agreements with your labor, guess it's a matter of when, not if, you go out of business.

By the way, GM asked for $18 billion today from Congress, $12 billion more than they said they needed last month. Oh, by the way, need $4 billion of that today if you don't mind in order to stay in business this month. Hahahahaha. What a joke. If Congress gives them any money, I hope we are all living in caves next year.

[Steef]

Well, when you have crapty pricing, a crapty buisness plan, a crapty and antiquated technology (the century+ old combustion engine running on refined oil) and stupid agreements with your labor, guess it's a matter of when, not if, you go out of business.

By the way, GM asked for $18 billion today from Congress, $12 billion more than they said they needed last month. Oh, by the way, need $4 billion of that today if you don't mind in order to stay in business this month. Hahahahaha. What a joke. If Congress gives them any money, I hope we are all living in caves next year.

If Congress gives 'em money, then Congress needs to be living in some jail cells.

'Course, that was already true.

[ConwayHog]

Well, when you have crapty pricing, a crapty buisness plan, a crapty and antiquated technology (the century+ old combustion engine running on refined oil) and stupid agreements with your labor, guess it's a matter of when, not if, you go out of business.

By the way, GM asked for $18 billion today from Congress, $12 billion more than they said they needed last month. Oh, by the way, need $4 billion of that today if you don't mind in order to stay in business this month. Hahahahaha. What a joke. If Congress gives them any money, I hope we are all living in caves next year.

If they don't get it now, they'll get it in January.

[Buff]

My GM truck has been running solidly since 1999 through 224k+ miles.  No problems with it.  It's their own fault for building vehicles that don't need to be replaced.  Or maybe I'm on my own in that logic train.

[Faedian7]

Maybe instead of asking Congress for a bailout, the "Big 3" should go ask the oil companies for a bailout. After all, the oil companies should have an interest in keeping the auto industry going right? I believe the oil companies could spare some coin after all the record breaking quarters they have been having.

[ErieHog]

Maybe instead of asking Congress for a bailout, the "Big 3" should go ask the oil companies for a bailout. After all, the oil companies should have an interest in keeping the auto industry going right? I believe the oil companies could spare some coin after all the record breaking quarters they have been having.

No; they really aught to go to the unions, and offer to sell a stake in ownership;  it'd have the dual effect of putting the unions on the spot, and making them interested in the actual viability of the business model.

[Verge]

Why would anybody buy a new car from a company that's publicly admitting if it doesn't recieve help, it will go out of business.

The whole thing is lunatic. What a gamble. Obviously nobody is going to buy a GM vehicle right now.

[HognotinMemphis]

Why would anybody buy a new car from a company that's publicly admitting if it doesn't recieve help, it will go out of business.

The whole thing is lunatic. What a gamble. Obviously nobody is going to buy a GM vehicle right now.

This is what the dumbarses running these companies don't seem to understand the ramifications of...these kinds of comments. Can't believe they are doing this in such a public way.

[hawgbawb]

This is what the dumbarses running these companies don't seem to understand the ramifications of...these kinds of comments. Can't believe they are doing this in such a public way.

I don't know how you could do it discreetly though.  They can't go to any of the big banks for the money.  Maybe they should try King Saud?

[Masshog]

No; they really aught to go to the unions, and offer to sell a stake in ownership;  it'd have the dual effect of putting the unions on the spot, and making them interested in the actual viability of the business model.

Jesus, thats a great idea.  Congress should say, ok unions, you give X and well give X.  Erie, you just paid your cost of membership in this sorry club. 

I only say "sorry" because I'm a member. 

[hawgbawb]

Bankruptcy is a terrible option, but it's probably still the best one. It will cause a lot of economic pain, but that seems inevitable anyway. Bankruptcy will serve as a wake up and allow them to renegotiate union contracts, pensions, etc. and cut bloated mgmt

It might take a grass roots public outcry against a bailout to prevent one. 

[san1981]

I'm going to look at new cars this weekend. I'm thinking about the new Accord. I really like the way they look. I am going in with the mindset that I can basically name my price (within a reasonable amount) and they will take it. If a persons financially situation is right, now is the time to buy. Interests are so low. Also, I am going to get a kick out of these people buying SUV now since gas is below $2.00, some people will never learn.

[The Marmot]

I'm going to look at new cars this weekend. I'm thinking about the new Accord. I really like the way they look. I am going in with the mindset that I can basically name my price (within a reasonable amount) and they will take it. If a persons financially situation is right, now is the time to buy. Interests are so low. Also, I am going to get a kick out of these people buying SUV now since gas is below $2.00, some people will never learn.

You know, there legitimate reasons to own SUVs and large trucks.

Now, if its a 5'2" soccer-mom with 1 kid, then laugh away.

[san1981]

Agreed. There are reasons. Heck I owned a truck and really miss it. I miss riding up high. Heck, I've even done some research on some mid-size SUV's in particular the GMC Arcadia, but can't translate buying a 30k vehicle that gets 18-20 mpg when I can get a brand new Accord that gets 26-30 mpg for 22k. And for single guy with no family.

[john c]

Agreed. There are reasons. Heck I owned a truck and really miss it. I miss riding up high. Heck, I've even done some research on some mid-size SUV's in particular the GMC Arcadia, but can't translate buying a 30k vehicle that gets 18-20 mpg when I can get a brand new Accord that gets 26-30 mpg for 22k. And for single guy with no family.

If someone drives an Escalade about 18,000 miles per year and gas is $4/gl they will spend about $200/month (before tax, if applicable) more for fuel than the same miles in an Accord.  My son has a higher-end boutique car dealership.  When fuel skyrocketed he sold as many Escalades as ever.  He sold two today.  I asked him what his customers said regarding fuel prices.  He said it never comes up.

That said, he really likes Hondas.  For a personal size sedan, hard to go wrong.

[Steef]

My 95 Tacoma is still goin' strong. Looks and rides almost like new.

My 6' frame and wide load backside fits fine.

Payments are really sweet, too. Bought it almost new in 96, paid it off in 99.

Book value is virtually nonexistant. I really should care about that. Maybe tomorrow.

[ErieHog]

Jesus, thats a great idea.  Congress should say, ok unions, you give X and well give X.  Erie, you just paid your cost of membership in this sorry club. 

I only say "sorry" because I'm a member. 

Isn't there an old line to the effect of 'Here's to Club X; it's doomed if it makes a member of the likes of me.'?

[RazorHog14]

I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members. - Groucho Marx

[Masshog]

In the third quarter 2007 Volvo sold something like 42,000 units of heavy trucks in Europe.  Third quarter of 08..... any one want to take a wild ass guess?  Try 155 (this is a net number with new orders netted with cancellations).  Wow.   

[john c]

In the third quarter 2007 Volvo sold something like 42,000 units of heavy trucks in Europe.  Third quarter of 08..... any one want to take a wild ass guess?  Try 155 (this is a net number with new orders netted with cancellations).  Wow.  

Maybe we need to buy Autozone and O'Reilly.  Cars will wear out and these guys should do well.

[SpareRib]

Maybe we need to buy Autozone and O'Reilly.  Cars will wear out and these guys should do well.

Autozone is doing something right.  Compared to many stocks bubbling in the bottom of the pot, check out this chart.  AZO is only down between 25 & 30% (to my eyeball).  This chart looks very different from most at this time.

[ConwayHog]

I'm going to look at new cars this weekend. I'm thinking about the new Accord. I really like the way they look. I am going in with the mindset that I can basically name my price (within a reasonable amount) and they will take it. If a persons financially situation is right, now is the time to buy. Interests are so low. Also, I am going to get a kick out of these people buying SUV now since gas is below $2.00, some people will never learn.

Do as you please but I would buy used.  There are some good deals to be had.

[IronHog]

Agreed. There are reasons. Heck I owned a truck and really miss it. I miss riding up high. Heck, I've even done some research on some mid-size SUV's in particular the GMC Arcadia, but can't translate buying a 30k vehicle that gets 18-20 mpg when I can get a brand new Accord that gets 26-30 mpg for 22k. And for single guy with no family.

A single guy can't figure out why a truck beats and Accord?


You'll always be single, with none of the fun my friend.

[HognotinMemphis]

Ran into a well-to-do friend last night at a party. This guy used to sell luxury cars back in the '70's and he's stayed in touch with friends still doing so.

He told me a story of his long-time friend, who was his first boss back in the '70's. This friend of a friend is now a salesman at the local Jaguar dealership. This guy made $1,000 in October. He quit.

My buddy told me that another of his friends is still a salesman at the BMW dealership here in Memphis. His friend said that last week, they didn't have a single customer come onto the lot to look for a new vehicle for 4 consecutive days. This is December by the way...usually not a bad time for luxury automobile dealers.

[songofthesword]

i sold cars for a while. Mazda's then infiniti's and nissans. was pretty good. a consistant 15-20 a month.

I stopped about 4 years ago before I do what I do now, becuase at the end of the day, I was really selling something, very expensive, that a customer really doesn't need. most customers WANT a new car. very few actually NEED one.

I can't spend my life selling what people want. you make a living by selling needs.

[MJ2]

My recent experience with car shopping is that even though they are all in trouble, there is no REAL attempt to cut prices to make sale.   Yes, they advertise thousands off, but then when you find what you want, it's actually higher than it was a year or two ago.   Trade in values appear to be atrocious to!

[john c]

Autozone is doing something right.  Compared to many stocks bubbling in the bottom of the pot, check out this chart.  AZO is only down between 25 & 30% (to my eyeball).  This chart looks very different from most at this time.

Well, I failed to get around to buying either AZO or ORLY.  Same amt of investment on 12-4 would have produced a good return on either if sold today.  Doesn't matter - didn't do it.  Just talk and regret.

[DeltaBoy]

My recent experience with car shopping is that even though they are all in trouble, there is no REAL attempt to cut prices to make sale.   Yes, they advertise thousands off, but then when you find what you want, it's actually higher than it was a year or two ago.   Trade in values appear to be atrocious to!

That is the truth 2 weeks ago I was called and asked to make an appointment to come in and trade my 04 Santa Fe for a 08 one because they needed some used Santa Fe's for their lot.

After wasting an hour they low balled my Trade and told me the best deal they could make on a new one was $395 a month. I told them I was paying $307 and would go to 350 but not 395 so after about 15 more minutes I left and went home. Plus I want to go back to a Mid Sized Pick up.

[ErieHog]

That is the truth 2 weeks ago I was called and asked to make an appointment to come in and trade my 04 Santa Fe for a 08 one because they needed some used Santa Fe's for their lot.

After wasting an hour they low balled my Trade and told me the best deal they could make on a new one was $395 a month. I told them I was paying $307 and would go to 350 but not 395 so after about 15 more minutes I left and went home. Plus I want to go back to a Mid Sized Pick up.

Well, there's huge problems for them already;  they have overpriced vehicles already on the lot, that they can't sell without taking a huge loss;  there's no prospect of them being able to slash prices the $5K they need to just to be on equal footing as the foreign producers in head-to-head competition.  As someone opined, the problem isn't quality for American made automobiles anymore-- it's the UAW 'premium' paid for the manufacture of the car, which puts it at a massive competitive disadvantage.

In fact, the overall quality of the product is going to become truly problematic in difficult economic times;  when times are good, people got a new product every 3-5 years, whether they needed it or not-- but the product itself, if carefully maintained, can easily last 20 years now.

I could have bought a basic new Ford Expedition for something like $43,000--  instead I bought a loaded 2003 model with less than 50K miles on it the other day for under $13,000.   That $30,000 in savings can go a long way, while I plan to drive the Expedition into the ground, while maintaining it carefully.

[IronHog]

I plan to drive the Expedition into the ground, while maintaining it carefully.

Heck on these modern fullsize rigs there isn't much to do that really matters outside of changing the oil/lube every 5K and the tranny every 100K or so.

I've got a Tahoe with 140K on the factory brakes.  That would have been unheard of 20 years ago!

[Masshog]

This last year I purchased my first Honda.  The last three American cars Ive owned (a Chrysler and two Fords) crapped out under 150k.  Last one, a Ford Explorer) crapped out after 130k.  I maintain and baby vehicles.  Oil every 4-5k and regular preventive.  I don't consider this to be reasonable. 

[DeltaBoy]

I told the wife I am driving my Santa Fe at least another year. It has 56,000 miles on it and it is an 04. I have had no problems I have to change the rubber timing belt and some other things at 60,000 and then I will be good to 120,000 miles. 

[Buff]

Trade in values appear to be atrocious to!

Got an uncle with a 2006 Dodge Ram 3500 dually outfitted with the Cummins diesel.  Bought it for hauling cattle.  Now that he's cut his herd in half, he doesn't need to do as much hauling and was looking to trade that truck in for a 1500-2500 model.  The highest trade-in price he's gotten for that truck is $10,000.  Low miles, since he has a smaller truck he takes around town.  $10k is insane.