I pray for those in the auto sales business

[Biggus Piggus]

CEO of Auto Nation just said on CNBC that banks are turning away good credits for auto loans.  Not just bad credits.  They are turning down money, because they are afraid to write loans.  Fear has paralyzed them.  You want Main Street?  No you don't.

[Ash]

From what I've heard it can be difficult to get a car loan right now without at least a 700 FICO score. Out of all my friends that I know (and that I also know their FICO). Me and my wife are the only ones that meet that requirement. Also the Debt-To-Income ratio requirements have evidently been made more strict by several banks. I've also heard that a couple of banks will only finance 90%. Not good imo.

[The Marmot]

Do you all think the current situation with the automakers could finally force them to tell the unions to F off?

[HognotinMemphis]

Too bad the automakers have gotten so stupid and greedy. Stupid by paying union workers $80 to $100/hour for work that justifies no more than $20 to $30/hour. And greedy in that they've made many vehicles as expensive as homes. Ridiculous.Serves them right for not modernizing both their industry and their products. I mean, we've been on the combustion engine now for well over a century. I think that could have been advanced over a generation ago, but I digress. The manufacturers have brought this on themselves and they deserve what they are getting. Their dealers can thank them for royally screwing up the industry.

As for their customers, stop buying/leasing a new vehicle every 2 to 4 years. That's stupid. That's wasteful. You are losing money hand over fist when you buy or trade for a new vehicle that frequently. Drive your car for at least 10 years and maintain it properly.

The consumer better get with it. Much of this economic crisis is the fault of the consumer. Instant gratification and stupidity isn't a good mix. Save your money and pay cash for a car you can afford to pay cash for. It's easy to do if you A) keep your car at least 10 years, and B) buy a car within your means rather than buying a car based on the maximum monthly payment your cashflow allows over the longest time frame you can get from the dealer or lender.

[Biggus Piggus]

As for their customers, stop buying/leasing a new vehicle every 2 to 4 years. That's stupid. That's wasteful. You are losing money hand over fist when you buy or trade for a new vehicle that frequently. Drive your car for at least 10 years and maintain it properly.

It's just another luxury.  But there's a reason why most US-made cars close to fully depreciate after three years.  They wouldn't last 10 years.

[Hawgon]

It's just another luxury.  But there's a reason why most US-made cars close to fully depreciate after three years.  They wouldn't last 10 years.

That is why Acura gets my money.

[Biggus Piggus]

BS.

I guess you never lived in rust-bucket territory, either near the ocean, or in places where they liberally distribute salt in winter.

[Oklahawg]

All those folks who had hoped to ditch their guzzling SUV once gas prices dipped a bit are stuck.

[HognotinMemphis]

It's just another luxury.  But there's a reason why most US-made cars close to fully depreciate after three years.  They wouldn't last 10 years.

I don't agree with any of that, either from my own experiences or from what I have observed over the years. It may be a luxury but thousands of consumers who cannot afford that luxury do it all the time...trading vehicles in less than 5 yrs. And every U.S. car I've ever had, other than a '93 Chrysler Town & Country minivan, has done very well for at least 8 to 10 years. My current vehicle, a 2001 Suburban with 76,000 miles on it now (purchased new in 12/00) is doing great and other than oil changes and the normal maintainence, I have spent only $1100 on it in nearly 8 years.

[Oklahawg]

I don't agree with any of that, either from my own experiences or from what I have observed over the years. It may be a luxury but thousands of consumers who cannot afford that luxury do it all the time...trading vehicles in less than 5 yrs. And every U.S. car I've ever had, other than a '93 Chrysler Town & Country minivan, has done very well for at least 8 to 10 years. My current vehicle, a 2001 Suburban with 76,000 miles on it now (purchased new in 12/00) is doing great and other than oil changes and the normal maintainence, I have spent only $1100 on it in nearly 8 years.

The average driver puts something like 18K a year on their car. Your nearly-eight year old car has the miles of a 4-year old vehicle. You should be looking at near 150K if you are the "typical" driver.

[elkhog]

All those folks who had hoped to ditch their guzzling SUV once gas prices dipped a bit are stuck.

Not in the winter, we're not!

[Biggus Piggus]

The average driver puts something like 18K a year on their car. Your nearly-eight year old car has the miles of a 4-year old vehicle. You should be looking at near 150K if you are the "typical" driver.

That's a little high.  National average is something like 11,000 (watch your source of stats; some intermingle cars and trucks/buses).  Arkansas average is around 14,000.  Rural states are the highest.  In the Western states it's not uncommon for people to drive 30,000 a year.  My mother-in-law, retired, drives 25,000.  Those darned Oklahoma casinos.

[Biggus Piggus]

Go ahead and say one for us in the RV business.  Last week I had a 709 and a 719 declined.  WTH?  I have plenty of buyers...just not many banks interested in financing.

I feel for you guys even more.  Bad, bad times.

[H&D]

Go ahead and say one for us in the RV business.  Last week I had a 709 and a 719 declined.  WTH?  I have plenty of buyers...just not many banks interested in financing.

Tell the banks that if they are interested in your business when the market turns then they had better start playing ball.  I told a bank that today (after a denial) and two hours later a pre-approval letter came across the fax.  If you send that bank enough volume they will think twice.

[Masshog]

I think the largest GM dealership filed yesterday and I read today that projections are for 1000 more in the next 12 months. 

[HognotinMemphis]

The average driver puts something like 18K a year on their car. Your nearly-eight year old car has the miles of a 4-year old vehicle. You should be looking at near 150K if you are the "typical" driver.

If that is true, the average driver drives too much. Stay at home more often, you are on the go way too much. Exxon and GM love you.

[Masshog]

I do ok... and I have driven each of my last three vehicles until they have become unsafe (North of 110,000 in each case).  Last car I was hoping to get to 140,000 or so, but there was a cataclysmic event.  Maybe I'm cheap, but I can't see wasting money on a new vehicle unless I have no choice.  I will admit to always buying new despite knowing its not that good a move, but it's an indulgence.  Of course, my next vehicle, is a 1952 Chevy pickup. 

[SpareRib]

Too bad the automakers have gotten so stupid and greedy. Stupid by paying union workers $80 to $100/hour for work that justifies no more than $20 to $30/hour. And greedy in that they've made many vehicles as expensive as homes. Ridiculous.Serves them right for not modernizing both their industry and their products. I mean, we've been on the combustion engine now for well over a century. I think that could have been advanced over a generation ago, but I digress. The manufacturers have brought this on themselves and they deserve what they are getting. Their dealers can thank them for royally screwing up the industry.

As for their customers, stop buying/leasing a new vehicle every 2 to 4 years. That's stupid. That's wasteful. You are losing money hand over fist when you buy or trade for a new vehicle that frequently. Drive your car for at least 10 years and maintain it properly.

The consumer better get with it. Much of this economic crisis is the fault of the consumer. Instant gratification and stupidity isn't a good mix. Save your money and pay cash for a car you can afford to pay cash for. It's easy to do if you A) keep your car at least 10 years, and B) buy a car within your means rather than buying a car based on the maximum monthly payment your cashflow allows over the longest time frame you can get from the dealer or lender.

From another Memphian - if you sold tickets to make that speech on Court Square, you wouldn't have ten people in the audience ... and that's a crying darn shame.  Of course you are right, but folks just don't seem to be wired that way.

I haven't financed a car in 20 years.  Mine won't last ten years because I put too much mileage on them, but I'm dumping a Grand Cherokee this month that has 193,000 miles on it.  I buy thru a wholesale friend or low mileage used , under 30k miles, let someone else take the first year or two depreciation, pay cash, then drive them until the maintenance costs say they are no longer a good deal.  Haven't put less than 150K miles on a car in a while now.

I have a neighbor with a BMW 535 and a Toyota Sequoia, notes on both.  He thinks he looks good.  I think he's an idiot (he's 6 months behind on his property assoc dues).

If anything good comes from this mess, maybe it'll be a few people getting their feet back in the real world.

[Masshog]

I do spend money on shoes.  I have like 500-600 pairs and I only like the expensive ones.  Is that wrong? 

[SpareRib]

I do spend money on shoes.  I have like 500-600 pairs and I only like the expensive ones.  Is that wrong? 

It's abhorrent.  You should put them in a wheel barrow and give them all away to folks in the middle class.  Don't you feel guilty as sin?  When you've done this, find a girlfriend named Imelda and live vicariously through her.

[Masshog]

I already did that with 5,000 of my best ties.  But now I'm into shoes. 

[SpareRib]

I already did that with 5,000 of my best ties.  But now I'm into shoes. 

Hey thanks man!  I think I got your Robert Talbott with the gravy stains on it.

[Masshog]

That was a nice tie.  If you stand with the light behind you no one will notice the stain.

[SpareRib]

That was a nice tie.  If you stand with the light behind you no one will notice the stain.

Sttoooooooooppp Now!  I'm hurtin'.

[SpareRib]

That was a nice tie.  If you stand with the light behind you no one will notice the stain.

If you have a pair of slightly used Cole Hahns, I'll swap you the Talbott with the gravy stains and throw in my wife's tank top.

[Steef]

Boy, did this thread ever get turned around!

[ConwayHog]

If that is true, the average driver drives too much. Stay at home more often, you are on the go way too much. Exxon and GM love you.

A lot of people around here drive that just going back and forth to work.  How many cars do you own between you and your wife?  Does your wife even work?  If so, about how much do each of you drive per year?

[HognotinMemphis]

I do ok... and I have driven each of my last three vehicles until they have become unsafe (North of 110,000 in each case).  Last car I was hoping to get to 140,000 or so, but there was a cataclysmic event.  Maybe I'm cheap, but I can't see wasting money on a new vehicle unless I have no choice.  I will admit to always buying new despite knowing its not that good a move, but it's an indulgence.  Of course, my next vehicle, is a 1952 Chevy pickup. 

I am similar. Don't go quite as many miles just because I don't drive that much. We always buy new too, but keep our cars about 10 years on average. Typically will have around 85,000 to 95,000 miles on our vehicles when we sell them and buy a new one.

[HognotinMemphis]

I do spend money on shoes.  I have like 500-600 pairs and I only like the expensive ones.  Is that wrong? 

No, nothing wrong with that, ImeldaMarcoshog.

[Masshog]

I don't get the new car mentality.  I do good maintenance and keep em clean...  and buy autos that I like a lot.  I guess if you don't have much else in your life the new car thing becomes more important.   

[Masshog]

Berstein at Merrill has been pounding the drum on the new Frugality.  PM me with you e-mail and I will send you a PDF with his latest observations.  Very interesting stuff. 

[HognotinMemphis]

A lot of people around here drive that just going back and forth to work.  How many cars do you own between you and your wife?  Does your wife even work?  If so, about how much do each of you drive per year?

We have our lives organized pretty well here in Memphis. Our home, business, church and tennis club are within a 5 mile radius.

I never drive my Suburban more than 100 miles per week, usually not that much though. I only put miles on it when we drive to Destin, Fayetteville or LR. We own 3 cars between the two of us. We both work in our retail business together but each drive our own vehicle to work every day.

Our son has his own car so we are not driving him around anymore..he hit 16 this past May. I put about 7500 miles per year on my Suburban, wife puts a little more than than each year on her Infiniti and since I bought a used Boxster in May of 2007, we've put about 3000 miles on it. Only drive it on weekends at occasionally at night.

I have never bought a used car other than the '02 Boxster I bought last year. I am thinking like SpareRib though...I'm going to start buying used luxury cars that are 2 to 3 years old with low mileage...just like I bought this Porsche...'02 model with right at 20,000 miles on it and a 2 yr bumper to bumper warranty on it from Porsche from day I purchased it. Paid $26,000 for it from Porsche dealer in Dallas.

[Masshog]

You and I sound a lot alike, and yet we don't seem to get along that well....  go figure...  Business and Tennis, Destin, my sons a bit older.  But, I'm way to big for a Boxster, but Ive always coveted one.   

[HognotinMemphis]

From another Memphian - if you sold tickets to make that speech on Court Square, you wouldn't have ten people in the audience ... and that's a crying darn shame.  Of course you are right, but folks just don't seem to be wired that way.

I haven't financed a car in 20 years.  Mine won't last ten years because I put too much mileage on them, but I'm dumping a Grand Cherokee this month that has 193,000 miles on it.  I buy thru a wholesale friend or low mileage used , under 30k miles, let someone else take the first year or two depreciation, pay cash, then drive them until the maintenance costs say they are no longer a good deal.  Haven't put less than 150K miles on a car in a while now.

I have a neighbor with a BMW 535 and a Toyota Sequoia, notes on both.  He thinks he looks good.  I think he's an idiot (he's 6 months behind on his property assoc dues).

If anything good comes from this mess, maybe it'll be a few people getting their feet back in the real world.

I like the way you think.

The only car I've ever financed was the Infiniti FX35 we bought for my wife back in Jan '04. We financed $15,000 for 60 months at 1.9%. That was such cheap money, I couldn't pass it up. Probably should have financed more at that rate. I think the total cost, with tax and all, was about $35,000, so paid about $20,000 cash at purchase. Payments are $262/mo. and will end up paying about $800 in interest over 5 yrs. Last payment is due in January, so almost done with that!

[HognotinMemphis]

I already did that with 5,000 of my best ties.  But now I'm into shoes. 

Speaking of ties, a year or two ago, I realized I had a bunch of Hermes ties in my closet that I hadn't worn in years. I put them on eBay and sold about 7 or 8 to one guy. Got about $80 each for them as I recall. I paid around $100 each for them when I bought them although I think they are about $140 or so now.

[HognotinMemphis]

You and I sound a lot alike, and yet we don't seem to get along that well....  go figure...  Business and Tennis, Destin, my sons a bit older.  But, I'm way to big for a Boxster, but Ive always coveted one.   

How do you think we don't get along that well? I was thinking the opposite! I have a 19 yr old in college as well, a sophomore at Arkansas.

[Masshog]

We have had a couple of moments.  But, being a trader, I don't worry much about the past. 

[HognotinMemphis]

We have had a couple of moments.

I don't recall that.

[The Marmot]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081005/ap_on_bi_ge/auto_dealers_credit

[Ash]

Japanese steel rusts more slowly than American?

I have lived in Illinois. You're right, they don't have any winter up there. Oh, and Pensacola. There's no salt water around there.

I sorta know what he is talking about. I don't know about know but used to whatever process the US manufacturers used to rust-protect their cars was not as thorough/good as the method Japanese automakers used. I don't think that has been a problem though since the mid-90's.

[Biggus Piggus]

I have a neighbor with three Lamborghinis.  Identical, all red too.  He has a garage to hold them.  I don't believe he borrowed to buy any of them.

[Biggus Piggus]

I sorta know what he is talking about. I don't know about know but used to whatever process the US manufacturers used to rust-protect their cars was not as thorough/good as the method Japanese automakers used. I don't think that has been a problem though since the mid-90's.

Problem is a lot of those cars are still on the roads.

[Biggus Piggus]

I thought they wouldn't last ten years?

Not in any shape you'd want to drive them in.

[Biggus Piggus]

I used to own American cars, and the big difference between them and imports is, with American cars you have the significant probability of some bizarre failure.  I had darn fail that wasn't supposed to fail in the entire life of the vehicle.  I had a freaking head warp.  I had a condenser crack.  This stuff has never happened to my imports.  What goes wrong can be conventionally repaired.

But what I was talking about with the rust buckets, if you live on the coast or in hard winter country, rust buckets are everywhere.  People get creative about how they hide it from you.  A lot of people only buy new cars in such areas because they do not trust the used.

Speaking of that, I saw where the government found a significant % of flood-damaged cars were being moved to other states and "accidentally" retitled as undamaged.  Somebody's getting away with cleansing the vehicle histories.