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Why is chris smith undersized for the NFL?

Started by bennyl08, February 25, 2014, 11:03:19 am

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bennyl08

I keep hearing how he is a tweener and will likely have to move to OLB in a 3-4.

He is only 6'1". However, his arm length and wingspan are both as long or longer than Clowney's who is being praised for his wingspan. He weighs the same as Clowney and he performed very well at each of the events while destroying Clowney at the bench press. Clowney is certainly the better athlete, but Smith proved he is also one of the better athletes on the DL. The only thing he came up short in was height. Is that at all a problem when your arms are just as long as a 6'5" person's?
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

mceasy1001

Well see it all goes back to the birds and the bees.....

 

weresoclose

Chris Smith measured 32.75 arm length.

Jadeavon Clowney measured 34.5 inches, nearly 2 inches longer. 

What are you talking about?

Hawgon

Because players are a lot bigger in the NFL.

LL COOL HOG

His height is a issues at DE because the OL can get better leverage on him during a play. That's the general thinking on the height issue for DE. But as you said his wingspan makes up the difference. These guys just have to talk about something.

weresoclose

Clowney' monsterously longer arm length also contributes to his lesser bench press performance. 

I suppose you saw Clowney's 4.53 sec 40.... compared with Smith's 4.71?


Where Smith has an advantage is his love of the game.  That means a lot.

WizardofhOgZ


As I stated in another thread, he compares favorably to 5 star, top 10 High School recruit Jackson Jeffcoat (Texas). 

You can check out their respective numbers here:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1972087-nfl-combine-2014-day-5-results-40-times-and-recap

gohogs1969

I think 3rd round for Chris. He is a tweener. I sit at field level in Fayetteville and that young man has a motor that is 2nd to none. He can definitely get to the QB but he also has an incredible ability to get out in the flats and stop the outside run. There is a place for him in the NFL.

Break & Run

Chargers are talking about Smith in the 2nd round.
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havok

Also.. many NFL teams are running a 3-4 alignment.  the DE position on those teams is more of a DT sized player... and OLB's have to be flexible enough to be a rush end on some plays..and be able to play from a 2 point stance and cover space or man-to-man on others.

A 4-3 team can make good use of his skills as a DE with his hand on the ground..

ErieHog

Quote from: havok on February 25, 2014, 01:24:53 pm
Also.. many NFL teams are running a 3-4 alignment.  the DE position on those teams is more of a DT sized player... and OLB's have to be flexible enough to be a rush end on some plays..and be able to play from a 2 point stance and cover space or man-to-man on others.

A 4-3 team can make good use of his skills as a DE with his hand on the ground..

This is pretty well it.    3-4s use bigger ends,  though sometimes you will find a speed specialist who plays OLB on 1st or 2nd down, and might see some snaps at DE on 3rd and medium to long.
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superior_wang

Quote from: bennyl08 on February 25, 2014, 11:03:19 am
I keep hearing how he is a tweener and will likely have to move to OLB in a 3-4.

He is only 6'1". However, his arm length and wingspan are both as long or longer than Clowney's who is being praised for his wingspan. He weighs the same as Clowney and he performed very well at each of the events while destroying Clowney at the bench press. Clowney is certainly the better athlete, but Smith proved he is also one of the better athletes on the DL. The only thing he came up short in was height. Is that at all a problem when your arms are just as long as a 6'5" person's?
elvis dumerville is a guy in a similar position.. (Ravens)...  hes a DE but is short at 5'11...im not sure how the heck he packs on 260 and can move.. but speeed is his thing.

JackJohnson

he literally has the exact same measurables as Dwight Freeny had at the NFL Combine.

Freeney was also 6-1 266, did 28 reps at 225 and had a 37 inch verticle.  Freeney however did run a 4.48 40 which is unbelievable.  Like Smith he isn't talked about as a "freak" bc he is short.  Clowney is no doubt impressive but I think since he is 6-5 he gets the "freak" status thrown his way a bit too often when there have been several others just as deserving 

If Smith has half the career that Freeney has had he will have been an absolute steal for whoever drafts him. 

 

bennyl08

Quote from: weresoclose on February 25, 2014, 11:13:19 am
Chris Smith measured 32.75 arm length.

Jadeavon Clowney measured 34.5 inches, nearly 2 inches longer. 

What are you talking about?

Where are you getting that?

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/0ap2000000327796/article/jadeveon-clowneys-wingspan-among-longest-in-dl-group

Gives Smith as having a longer total wingspan by 1/8 inch.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jadeveon-clowney?id=2543456

Gives Clowney's 34.5 inch arms and

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/chris%20-smith?id=2543692

Gives Smith as having 34.125 inch arms.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

bennyl08

According to Walter, teams tend to go by the unofficial forty times listed.

Clowney's unofficial is 4.47, 4.53 official, with a 10 yard 1.56 second split.

Smith has an unofficial 4.54, official 4.71 and has a 1.59 second 10 yard split.

Smiths unofficial is pretty darn impressive, and regardless, their 10 yard splits are nearly identical.

http://walterfootball.com/combine2014DL.php

Only Clowney had a faster unofficial. Not claiming some anti-arkansas conspiracy, but there was a large discrepancy between the two. The unofficial I believe is hand timed while the official is with lasers. Either Smith appeared faster by hand, or people weird just being lazy with the hand timing.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

weresoclose

Actually Walter says teams use their own times, not unofficial times.  Not sure why my arm length info for Smith was bad, but in the cone, broad jump, 40, and vertical Clowney has better stats. 

But height can really help bat down passes. 

I think Smith will be a great fit in the right defense. 

But you cannot detract from Clowney's talent.  His big knock is that he doesn't go all out all the time.

Randy Moss took plays off too.  He was an unbelievable bargain on his rookie deal. 

If a guy's got that kind of talent, I'm not going to ding him too much for taking plays off here and there.  He can still turn it on and be there on the plays where it really matters.  Obviously I'd prefer the Jerry Rice work ethic to go with the Lawrence Taylor talent.  But sometimes you just take the talent.

All that said, I'd think long and hard before being the team to sign him to his 2nd contract which will be where he gets obscenely overpaid and where if his work ethic is going to become a problem, that's where it will happen.

bennyl08

No doubt Clowney is the best overall athlete in the draft. Hence why I compare his measurables to Clowney who really set the standard this year.

I definitely see how height can be a big advantage to ball swatting, a trait increasingly looked for by teams. He didn't do so hot in the 3 cone which is pretty important for a DE, but was top 8 at everything else and it isn't like he doesn't have mass.

I agree with the comments on 3-4 vs 4-3. He would not be a very DE in a 3-4.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

SPAL


bennyl08

Quote from: sir-pigs-a-lot on February 25, 2014, 08:19:04 pm
I would go with genetics.

Must have had too much coke or caffeine as a kid. Nurture >Nature!

\s
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

cardinalandwhite

The fact that Smith has the athleticism and size to play OLD in a 3-4 is a big factor, because a lot of teams are desperately looking for that rush LB.  If he's drafted by a 4-3 team, he's an end.  If a 3-4 team, he's an OLB.  He will probably be more valuable, relatively speaking, to a 3-4 team though, due to his athleticism, IMO.  We shall see.
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Hogsenburg

Height is one reason they consider him undersized....he is shorter than most DE's

acey33

Because he was really a LB IMO that we turned into a DE...he could easily play OLB in a 3-4 defense in the NFL

razorhead94

Quote from: acey33 on February 26, 2014, 02:45:10 pm
Because he was really a LB IMO that we turned into a DE...he could easily play OLB in a 3-4 defense in the NFL

Exactly.  Played LB in high school.
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