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Did Bret hold Alex Collins back? (Only one man could stop AC)

Started by Malvin, December 11, 2017, 09:56:18 am

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Malvin

As I watch Alex Collins torch the Steelers defense, I just have to wonder how much Bert's approach to football hurt him.  Think about it, very talented running back but he never really had that break away speed in college.  He was really good, but could he have become a Legend at Arkansas under a coach who pushed their players to be their best?

Think about it, he gets out of college and goes to Seattle at hits a wall.. to slow, to big, he learns real fast what it takes to get it done at a high level in football.. as he barley makes the team as a first round draft pick but then is cut the next year.  Coming into the Ravens he is a total different player, I've never seen him play this fast before.  If he had Petrino, or Nutt, or heck any coach who pushes their players to be the best.. could he have been the next McFadden? 

DOGALUM

AC was a beast here.  No need to wonder what could have been.  Celebrate what was.  1000+ first three years in the SEC....Herschel, Bo, and AC.  (Perhaps Fournette too now). 
A man who wouldn't cheat for a poke, don't want one bad enough!

 

hogsanity

Really? He rushed for over 1k yards all 3 seasons here including over 1500 as a JR. And he is 2nd all time in rushing yards at the UofA behind only D-Mac. His problem in Sea was he could not hold onto the ball.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Coondog Hog

As great as he was he was too heavy here.
'The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.'
  - Ronald Reagan

'If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.' -
-Ronald Reagan
Quote from: mmhogs17 on March 08, 2011, 11:02:18 pm
I've had alot of things in and out of my butt, but never Monkeys..

Beached


Malvin

I'm not saying he wasn't great here, I'm saying under a coach with better motivation.. could he have been legendary?  He will never been in the same discussion with McFadden or Bo regardless of the numbers.  Anybody who watched the games will tell you that.

SemperHawg

I can't speak for what Bret did here with him, but so much of what translates to success in the NFL is about fit and environment .  If a program's ownership does have the correct environment i.e. the Oakland Raiders for like a decade, then its going to be hard for a young player to succeed.  The fit is self explanatory, do they run a scheme that translates to the players skill set.

It appears that Collins may checked both boxes in Baltimore.

Busta_Nutt

Quote from: DOGALUM on December 11, 2017, 10:01:13 am
AC was a beast here.  No need to wonder what could have been.  Celebrate what was.  1000+ first three years in the SEC....Herschel, Bo, and AC.  (Perhaps Fournette too now).

Fournette was close, but didn't play a full season his Junior year. Walker, McFadden, Collins, and Chubb are the only backs to have three 1,000 yard rushing seasons in the SEC.

IronHog

Quote from: DOGALUM on December 11, 2017, 10:01:13 am
AC was a beast here.  No need to wonder what could have been.  Celebrate what was.  1000+ first three years in the SEC....Herschel, Bo, and AC.  (Perhaps Fournette too now). 


He was too heavy, fumbled several games away, and couldn't block to save his life.


BB got about half a season out of a "5 Star" back
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

hog of steele

Quote from: Malvin on December 11, 2017, 10:05:12 am
I'm not saying he wasn't great here, I'm saying under a coach with better motivation.. could he have been legendary?  He will never been in the same discussion with McFadden or Bo regardless of the numbers.  Anybody who watched the games will tell you that.

Be sure to add into your calulation that BB got him here. Under a different coach, we probably wouldn't have gotten AC.

Jim Harris

Quote from: Malvin on December 11, 2017, 09:56:18 am
As I watch Alex Collins torch the Steelers defense, I just have to wonder how much Bert's approach to football hurt him.  Think about it, very talented running back but he never really had that break away speed in college.  He was really good, but could he have become a Legend at Arkansas under a coach who pushed their players to be their best?

Think about it, he gets out of college and goes to Seattle at hits a wall.. to slow, to big, he learns real fast what it takes to get it done at a high level in football.. as he barley makes the team as a first round draft pick but then is cut the next year.  Coming into the Ravens he is a total different player, I've never seen him play this fast before.  If he had Petrino, or Nutt, or heck any coach who pushes their players to be the best.. could he have been the next McFadden? 

Maybe the strength and conditioning coach held him back. That said, he would have run wild in a power spread attack.
"We've been trying to build a program on a 7-8 win per season business model .... We upgraded the Business Model." -- John Tyson

HF#1

I think Alex is much more dedicated to the game now than he was at Arkansas. It happens.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

kodiakisland

Quote from: Malvin on December 11, 2017, 09:56:18 am
As I watch Alex Collins torch the Steelers defense, I just have to wonder how much Bert's approach to football hurt him.  Think about it, very talented running back but he never really had that break away speed in college.  He was really good, but could he have become a Legend at Arkansas under a coach who pushed their players to be their best?

Think about it, he gets out of college and goes to Seattle at hits a wall.. to slow, to big, he learns real fast what it takes to get it done at a high level in football.. as he barley makes the team as a first round draft pick but then is cut the next year.  Coming into the Ravens he is a total different player, I've never seen him play this fast before.  If he had Petrino, or Nutt, or heck any coach who pushes their players to be the best.. could he have been the next McFadden? 

First round pick?  My memory must be going on me.  Wasn't he a mid to late round pick?
If gun control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome. http://heyjackass.com/

 

jkstock04

Quote from: Coondog Hog on December 11, 2017, 10:02:07 am
As great as he was he was too heavy here.
I bet if we compared weight now vs when he was a Hog it would be similar. But the difference is now he's leaner...it's "better weight." No chance he was as lean, agile, and elusive as he is now.

To be fair, some of that can probably be attributed to top of the line 24/7 training staff, coaches, and diet franchise NFL players no doubt get. Of course, some of it no doubt can be attributed to Bielemas philosophy of the more mass and the more slow the better.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

(notOM)Rebel123

Quote from: kodiakisland on December 11, 2017, 10:10:20 am
First round pick?  My memory must be going on me.  Wasn't he a mid to late round pick?

5th round pick
"Knowledge is Good"....Emil Faber

Atlhogfan1

Nothing wrong with AC at Arkansas.   He has admitted to bulking up on his own to get ready for the NFL and then admitted it was a mistake.  He was listed at 215 at Arkansas in his last season.  Now 210 for Ravens. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

hog of steele

Quote from: HF#1 on December 11, 2017, 10:09:57 am
I think Alex is much more dedicated to the game now than he was at Arkansas. It happens.

Remember when he was here and BB assigned a grad assistant to make sure he ate breakfast. Crazy how much help that kid needed. BB was good for AC's career. Honestly, that entire story is a win/win and demonstrates what college football can be.

Talented kid gets guidance and becomes a man in college. We need more of that.

Wasn't AC made to carry his mattress around for a while too?

FANONTHEHILL

You might want to consider had it not been for Coach Bielema, Alex Collins would have never set foot in Fayetteville, Arkansas.
Favorite quote from practice.  Made to my son:<br /><br /><br />Technique is nice, but it comes down to this.  Block the F'er in front of you. - Sam Pittman 2015

PorkRinds


Atlhogfan1

And no he couldn't have been DMac in college because he doesn't have that top end acceleration or speed.  What he has are the best feet and vision of any Hog back.   DMac wasn't in ACs league in those and why his NFL career was so underwhelming.
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Hog Fan...DOH!

He's only 23 years old.  Today.  College football fans forget that these guys are just kids.  How disciplined were you at 18/19 years old?  Seriously?

He was an outstanding football player here.  I'm glad to see he's becoming an outstanding NFL player, too.

Hog Fan...DOH!

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on December 11, 2017, 10:17:49 am
And no he couldn't have been DMac in college because he doesn't have that top end acceleration or speed.  What he has are the best feet and vision of any Hog back.   DMac wasn't in ACs league in those and why his NFL career was so underwhelming.

Well ya, plus injuries and playing for the Raiders.

HogHomer

Quote from: hog of steele on December 11, 2017, 10:15:25 am
Remember when he was here and BB assigned a grad assistant to make sure he ate breakfast. Crazy how much help that kid needed. BB was good for AC's career. Honestly, that entire story is a win/win and demonstrates what college football can be.

Talented kid gets guidance and becomes a man in college. We need more of that.

Wasn't AC made to carry his mattress around for a while too?
Coach B also had to send grad assistants  to AC apartment to wake him up for class. Great kid but he definitely just wanted to play football. However coach B made him go to class and get a degree. So no he didn't hold Alex back.

hoggusamoungus

Quote from: kodiakisland on December 11, 2017, 10:10:20 am
First round pick?  My memory must be going on me.  Wasn't he a mid to late round pick?

Yep. OP lost all credibility after that blundering comment.

 

rljjr

Quote from: Malvin on December 11, 2017, 09:56:18 am
As I watch Alex Collins torch the Steelers defense, I just have to wonder how much Bert's approach to football hurt him.  Think about it, very talented running back but he never really had that break away speed in college.  He was really good, but could he have become a Legend at Arkansas under a coach who pushed their players to be their best?

Think about it, he gets out of college and goes to Seattle at hits a wall.. to slow, to big, he learns real fast what it takes to get it done at a high level in football.. as he barley makes the team as a first round draft pick but then is cut the next year.  Coming into the Ravens he is a total different player, I've never seen him play this fast before.  If he had Petrino, or Nutt, or heck any coach who pushes their players to be the best.. could he have been the next McFadden? 

I hear what you're saying but he isn't at Arkansas without CBB and staff.

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: Hog Fan...DOH! on December 11, 2017, 10:19:27 am
Well ya, plus injuries and playing for the Raiders.

He couldn't make NFL players miss when he was healthy.  Terrible feet even in the open field.  AC always looked like an NFL back because of his vision and cutting ability near the line of scrimmage in traffic. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Hogg_Phan

If Bret held him back, then so did Pete. He didn't shine in Seattle. It's the right fit with the right scheme that matters. D-mac would have had a much better career had he went to the right team.
Maurice "Footsie" Britt - an "ex-Arkansas Razorback and Detroit Lion war hero".
.... In fact, Britt was standing on the field at the football stadium in Arkansas, saluting with his left hand and receiving the Medal of Honor, ...
http://www.cafe.com/r/f87e4a8e-2253-4fb1-90ad-4372d99aa204/1/why-havent-you-heard-of-this-war-hero-nfl-veteran

Athog

Quote from: hogsanity on December 11, 2017, 10:01:19 am
Really? He rushed for over 1k yards all 3 seasons here including over 1500 as a JR. And he is 2nd all time in rushing yards at the UofA behind only D-Mac. His problem in Sea was he could not hold onto the ball.

Nobody held anybody back! Good grief! You nailed ^

PorkRinds

I think CBB held him back by bulking him up to make him a bruiser. He isn't a bruiser, he's a finesse runner. Now I do think the bruiser attitude helps him, but all that weight made him sluggish compared to what he is now.

HogHomer

Quote from: PorkRinds on December 11, 2017, 10:27:54 am
I think CBB held him back by bulking him up to make him a bruiser. He isn't a bruiser, he's a finesse runner. Now I do think the bruiser attitude helps him, but all that weight made him sluggish compared to what he is now.
When he came to Arkansas he had no idea how to eat right. No idea of what a healthy diet was. It was a struggle for the nutrition staff to make plans for him that he'd be willing and committed to do.

hogsanity

Quote from: PorkRinds on December 11, 2017, 10:27:54 am
I think CBB held him back by bulking him up to make him a bruiser. He isn't a bruiser, he's a finesse runner. Now I do think the bruiser attitude helps him, but all that weight made him sluggish compared to what he is now.

Even though, as noted above, AC admitted to bulking up ON HIS OWN to get ready for the NFL, you still want to say BB held him back? Umm, ok, one thing is for sure, some at Hogville never let facts get in the way of a good rant.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

k.c.hawg

AC was AC. He wanted to enjoy the college experience while playing football. He liked the girls, he liked the night life, he liked showing up at the parties. Nothing wrong with any of that, he survived just fine on his skills. What he found out was, when you land on a team trying to find a RB from a pool of 5 RB's, you better be dedicating everything to your trade. PC did him a huge favor by releasing him rather than burying him on the bench for 2 more years to turn to waste. His vision and balance equip him to be a feature back in the league as long as he understands that he has to get smarter and work harder everyday because every year there will be younger, fresher guys coming to take his job. Very happy for his success. He represented well as a Hog.
Just sitting on the deck with a cold beer and a hot tequila watching the razorbacks roam.

HoggyCat

Who is this Bret of which thou speaketh?
I'm only responsible for what I say, not how you perceive it.

urkillnmesmalls

With his vision...if he had gone somewhere like OSU, OU, or one of those schools that spreads the field...he would have been unstoppable with his vision and ability to make people miss. 

I think maybe people are forgetting that on several occasions he was in CBB's doghouse for lack of compliance with their "program."  He was late several times, had an issue with eating and being out of shape, and other than sitting him on the bench...which he did, I'm not sure what else CBB could have done. 

FFWD to the fumbling issues in Seattle, and knowing he better get in shape and correct that if he wants to continue getting a paycheck for playing football, and THERE IS YOUR MOTIVATION. 

It's odd to hear the revisionist history here.  Without BB's motivation, maybe he balloons up another 30 lbs, and eats his way out of a chance to get to the NFL.  Also, doesn't BB get some credit for bringing one of the UA's all time best backs to campus?  Do you think he was going to Texas Tech with the offers he had?  That was a coup in its own right. 
I've never wanted a Hog coach to be successful more than I do for Pittman.  He's one of the good guys.

jkstock04

Just FYI in case anyone was wondering...he's listed with the Ravens as being
5-10, 210 lbs.

Arkansas had him listed at 5-11, 215 lbs.

http://m.baltimoreravens.com/team/roster.html

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/sport/m-footbl/roster/?season=2015-16

Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

hog of steele

Quote from: k.c.hawg on December 11, 2017, 10:33:22 am
He represented well as a Hog.

I think one thing BB did for the razorbacks is put out some good NFL talent. Clearly he didn't get it done here but our NFL presence has increased which is nothing but good for AR.

We are experiencing the same thing in baseball right now.

Peter Porker

December 11, 2017, 10:37:02 am #36 Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 01:35:31 pm by Peter Porker
Yep!!!! He should have ran for 5,0000 million yards a season!!!! That Brett is the debil! And Nutt too!

But let's not discuss how we only got half a season out of Knile Davis....
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

hogsanity

Quote from: urkillnmesmalls on December 11, 2017, 10:34:11 am
With his vision...if he had gone somewhere like OSU, OU, or one of those schools that spreads the field...he would have been unstoppable with his vision and ability to make people miss. 

I think maybe people are forgetting that on several occasions he was in CBB's doghouse for lack of compliance with their "program."  He was late several times, had an issue with eating and being out of shape, and other than sitting him on the bench...which he did, I'm not sure what else CBB could have done. 

FFWD to the fumbling issues in Seattle, and knowing he better get in shape and correct that if he wants to continue getting a paycheck for playing football, and THERE IS YOUR MOTIVATION. 

It's odd to hear the revisionist history here.  Without BB's motivation, maybe he balloons up another 30 lbs, and eats his way out of a chance to get to the NFL.  Also, doesn't BB get some credit for bringing one of the UA's all time best backs to campus?  Do you think he was going to Texas Tech with the offers he had?  That was a coup in its own right. 

This leads to a question, one that I imagine will haunt BB, why was his best recruiting class, at least in terms of nfl type talent, his 1st class? AC, Kirkland, Skipper, HH, ( seems like I am missing another from that class? ) all in his 1st class. A class he signed on short notice as far as being at Arkansas.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

urkillnmesmalls

Quote from: PorkRinds on December 11, 2017, 10:27:54 am
I think CBB held him back by bulking him up to make him a bruiser. He isn't a bruiser, he's a finesse runner. Now I do think the bruiser attitude helps him, but all that weight made him sluggish compared to what he is now.

Dead wrong man.  BB tried hard to improve his eating habits, but the issue was...he would go eat a whole pizza right before bed and things like that.  He didn't have the self discipline he needed.  JWill was under the same program...did he have a pseudo beer gut?  No. 

Of course he's faster now...he's lost what looks to be about 20 lbs, and you know it had to be all fat...useless weight. 

I swear...I don't know what's wrong with our fans.  AC was AMAZING while he was here, and people forget...his achilles heel was that he wasn't in great shape, and he fumbled from time to time.  Guess what..same issues he had at Seattle that kept him on the bench.  The MOTIVATION came from realizing he wanted to keep getting a check for playing football.  No rocket science needed to figure that out. 
 
I've never wanted a Hog coach to be successful more than I do for Pittman.  He's one of the good guys.

PorkRinds

Quote from: hogsanity on December 11, 2017, 10:32:14 am
Even though, as noted above, AC admitted to bulking up ON HIS OWN to get ready for the NFL, you still want to say BB held him back? Umm, ok, one thing is for sure, some at Hogville never let facts get in the way of a good rant.

A good rant? Good Fun Yearly.

PorkRinds

Quote from: urkillnmesmalls on December 11, 2017, 10:37:50 am
Dead wrong man.  BB tried hard to improve his eating habits, but the issue was...he would go eat a whole pizza right before bed and things like that.  He didn't have the self discipline he needed.  JWill was under the same program...did he have a pseudo beer gut?  No. 

Of course he's faster now...he's lost what looks to be about 20 lbs, and you know it had to be all fat...useless weight. 

I swear...I don't know what's wrong with our fans.  AC was AMAZING while he was here, and people forget...his achilles heel was that he wasn't in great shape, and he fumbled from time to time.  Guess what..same issues he had at Seattle that kept him on the bench.  The MOTIVATION came from realizing he wanted to keep getting a check for playing football.  No rocket science needed to figure that out. 


I loved AC as a hog. Never said any different.

hog of steele

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on December 11, 2017, 10:25:53 am
He couldn't make NFL players miss when he was healthy.  Terrible feet even in the open field.  AC always looked like an NFL back because of his vision and cutting ability near the line of scrimmage in traffic.

Also patience. I will always remember AC for how he seemed to wait that extra tick for blocks to set up. Maybe its related to vision but he seemed to have a nose for when to bounce out and get what he could and when to wait a second and let the hole open up.

hog of steele

Quote from: PorkRinds on December 11, 2017, 10:41:56 am
I loved AC as a hog. Never said any different.

Then thank BB because if we ddin't have BB we wouldn't have had AC.

PorkRinds

Quote from: hog of steele on December 11, 2017, 10:42:46 am
Then thank BB because if we ddin't have BB we wouldn't have had AC.

Never said any different. It's weird how half the folks here call me a CBB worshipper and the other half pretend I hate the guy. Some of us aren't in the extreme in either direction. 

hogsanity

Quote from: urkillnmesmalls on December 11, 2017, 10:37:50 am

I swear...I don't know what's wrong with our fans. 
 

I don't know what is wrong with our fans, but I know what is wrong with this board. People making up stupid stuff like this thread just to get clicks. They are going to do with BB what they have done with BP and HDN and Pelphrey - just keep bringing them up to start darn.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

steveaustin69

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on December 11, 2017, 10:17:49 am
And no he couldn't have been DMac in college because he doesn't have that top end acceleration or speed.  What he has are the best feet and vision of any Hog back.   DMac wasn't in ACs league in those and why his NFL career was so underwhelming.

His NFL career was underwhelming due to injuries and playing behind a putrid Raiders line in what should have been his prime years. Nothing to do with talent, or DMac's "lack of vision." 

BR

Quote from: hogsanity on December 11, 2017, 10:01:19 am
Really? He rushed for over 1k yards all 3 seasons here including over 1500 as a JR. And he is 2nd all time in rushing yards at the UofA behind only D-Mac. His problem in Sea was he could not hold onto the ball.
This... It Seattle, he could of been a star... Just could not hold on to the Ball...
"Cause I love Cajun martinis and playin' afternoon golf"

Atlhogfan1

AC avg well over 5 ypc at Arkansas each season.  Much better than Ok St's top back during those seasons and comparable to Perine at OU who avg 6.5 and 6.0.  In 2013, AC's Fr season, Trevor Knight had a higher ypc avg than OU's RBs. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

jkstock04

Quote from: urkillnmesmalls on December 11, 2017, 10:37:50 am
Dead wrong man.  BB tried hard to improve his eating habits, but the issue was...he would go eat a whole pizza right before bed and things like that.  He didn't have the self discipline he needed.  JWill was under the same program...did he have a pseudo beer gut?  No. 

Of course he's faster now...he's lost what looks to be about 20 lbs, and you know it had to be all fat...useless weight. 

I swear...I don't know what's wrong with our fans.  AC was AMAZING while he was here, and people forget...his achilles heel was that he wasn't in great shape, and he fumbled from time to time.  Guess what..same issues he had at Seattle that kept him on the bench.  The MOTIVATION came from realizing he wanted to keep getting a check for playing football.  No rocket science needed to figure that out. 
 
20 lbs? This is false...unless the university was lying about his weight by 15 lbs. I would contend  he has lost fat and gained lean muscle mass.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

hawgon

I don't think it is any coincidence that all of our players across the board added pounds to the point of being heavy and sluggish.