Get it out of your head and off your lips

[hassettsportsman]

Nothing validates chaos quicker than empty seats...or unsold kosher hotdogs.

[ricepig]

Nothing validates chaos quicker than empty seats...or unsold kosher hotdogs.

Twist says they run out of hotdogs, so that isn't going to factor in.

[hassettsportsman]

duly noted

[hogcard1964]

Most every fan I know expects CBB to be gone.

I suspect it's already a done deal. 

However, I am concerned that Long may be involved with the next hire.  That should send shivers down every fan's spine.

[Suidae Suis Scrofa]

There is a big problem with your question.  The majority of our fans are non-alumni.

Sadly, outside a few alumni, very few Razorback fans don't give a darn about the academic side of The University of Arkansas.  Heck, the majority of Arkansans place very little value on academics.

You make an interesting point, but as the parent of a UofA freshman, I can tell you which choice I would make.  In fact I did make that very decision when I transferred from Fayetteville after my freshman year to continue my education elsewhere.  I still watch every football game when available (which thanks to the SEC network is much more than in the 90's) and call the hogs from my living room.  I consider myself a fan, having grown up rooting for the hogs against the big bad Texas schools in the SWC it's in my blood and that's true regardless of the win/loss record.  Yes I want the Hogs to win, but that should not be the priority for the school or the Administration.  It's an educational institution and it's goal should be to improve the lives of the students first and athletics should be a tool to do that.  Focusing on the wins and losses of the football team while poo-pooing others schools who are academically superior is putting the cart before the horse in my opinion.

Now I'll step off of my soap box and try to add to this debate. 

I suspect you are right that many Hog fans are not alumni (although saying a majority are not is hopefully hyperbole).  However I think this might be more true of the older fans than younger.  Most Razorback fans are traditionally native Arkansans, and in the late middle of the last century I suspect few college age kids from areas far from NWA were able to go away to school in Fayetteville.  I imagine most would find a college more local to home while continuing to root for the biggest college in the state, the one with the most visibility.

Today most of the students come from areas far from NWA, with a lot coming from Texas thanks to the UofA's scholarship policy which takes advantage of Texas's restrictive acceptance policies.  For the most part they are not born-and-bred Razorback fans.  Their fandom will be a result of their time on the Hill.  I imagine that the parents of the current and future UofA grads would not mind sending their kids to a school with the academic credibility and financial potential of Vanderbilt.  They might even be willing to give up a couple of football wins every year to get there.  I hope the Chancellor and BOT feel that way, because in the end their job is to make the UofA a great educational institution, not a great football school.

-phil

[ricepig]

You make an interesting point, but as the parent of a UofA freshman, I can tell you which choice I would make.  In fact I did make that very decision when I transferred from Fayetteville after my freshman year to continue my education elsewhere.  I still watch every football game when available (which thanks to the SEC network is much more than in the 90's) and call the hogs from my living room.  I consider myself a fan, having grown up rooting for the hogs against the big bad Texas schools in the SWC it's in my blood and that's true regardless of the win/loss record.  Yes I want the Hogs to win, but that should not be the priority for the school or the Administration.  It's an educational institution and it's goal should be to improve the lives of the students first and athletics should be a tool to do that.  Focusing on the wins and losses of the football team while poo-pooing others schools who are academically superior is putting the cart before the horse in my opinion.

Now I'll step off of my soap box and try to add to this debate. 

I suspect you are right that many Hog fans are not alumni (although saying a majority are not is hopefully hyperbole).  However I think this might be more true of the older fans than younger.  Most Razorback fans are traditionally native Arkansans, and in the late middle of the last century I suspect few college age kids from areas far from NWA were able to go away to school in Fayetteville.  I imagine most would find a college more local to home while continuing to root for the biggest college in the state, the one with the most visibility.

Today most of the students come from areas far from NWA, with a lot coming from Texas thanks to the UofA's scholarship policy which takes advantage of Texas's restrictive acceptance policies.  For the most part they are not born-and-bred Razorback fans.  Their fandom will be a result of their time on the Hill.  I imagine that the parents of the current and future UofA grads would not mind sending their kids to a school with the academic credibility and financial potential of Vanderbilt.  They might even be willing to give up a couple of football wins every year to get there.  I hope the Chancellor and BOT feel that way, because in the end their job is to make the UofA a great educational institution, not a great football school.

-phil

Went to school in the late 70's, in my 4 years up there, we had one fraternity brother who was from Fayetteville, there were more from Lepanto, than Fayetteville. Now, I realize that isn't a scientific study by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think it puts some holes to your theory.

As to your hope of making it like Vanderbilt, that won't ever happen, but it's something to strive for. Winning football and good academics can both coexist, and it will again at the UofA.

[bphi11ips]

You make an interesting point, but as the parent of a UofA freshman, I can tell you which choice I would make.  In fact I did make that very decision when I transferred from Fayetteville after my freshman year to continue my education elsewhere.  I still watch every football game when available (which thanks to the SEC network is much more than in the 90's) and call the hogs from my living room.  I consider myself a fan, having grown up rooting for the hogs against the big bad Texas schools in the SWC it's in my blood and that's true regardless of the win/loss record.  Yes I want the Hogs to win, but that should not be the priority for the school or the Administration.  It's an educational institution and it's goal should be to improve the lives of the students first and athletics should be a tool to do that.  Focusing on the wins and losses of the football team while poo-pooing others schools who are academically superior is putting the cart before the horse in my opinion.

Now I'll step off of my soap box and try to add to this debate. 

I suspect you are right that many Hog fans are not alumni (although saying a majority are not is hopefully hyperbole).  However I think this might be more true of the older fans than younger.  Most Razorback fans are traditionally native Arkansans, and in the late middle of the last century I suspect few college age kids from areas far from NWA were able to go away to school in Fayetteville.  I imagine most would find a college more local to home while continuing to root for the biggest college in the state, the one with the most visibility.

Today most of the students come from areas far from NWA, with a lot coming from Texas thanks to the UofA's scholarship policy which takes advantage of Texas's restrictive acceptance policies.  For the most part they are not born-and-bred Razorback fans.  Their fandom will be a result of their time on the Hill.  I imagine that the parents of the current and future UofA grads would not mind sending their kids to a school with the academic credibility and financial potential of Vanderbilt.  They might even be willing to give up a couple of football wins every year to get there.  I hope the Chancellor and BOT feel that way, because in the end their job is to make the UofA a great educational institution, not a great football school.

-phil

Great points, phil.

I'd clarify one thing. Almost all of the UA grads from generations past came from SOMEWHERE outside of NWA.  Given that the entire population of the area is equivalent to a suburb of a major US metropolitan area like Dallas, I suspect that is going to be true for some time.

[hawgon]

Unless you change the name of the school and the state in which it's located, regardless of the quality of the education and the academic standards, the University of Arkansas will never be thought of as a top flight academic institution.  Sorry, that is just the way it is

[Vantage 8 dude]

They care about winning, and if it goes completely south the rest of this season, then a change will be made. The HC is paid a competitive salary for our conference, y'all act like it's something astronomical, lol. Guess what, the next coach will get real close to it, and he won't be bringing 3 conference championships. It's just the price of doing business. You seem to fathom yourself as some kind of business person, how many times has a company shed it's CEO after a couple of bad quarters, when the proceeding quarters were trending in the right direction? The board will make their move at their pace, they will wait until the earnings report at the end of November.

Rice, it just so happens that I did run a very successful investment business for over 35 years and sold it for a very nice chunk of change to help fund my retirement. Not bragging, just fact-and since you DID bring it up. Nonetheless, as I will once again point out IF the BOT or, whoever's is involved, is not going hold your HC accountable for ALL aspects of the program, including wins/losses, then don't bother paying the guy the kind of bucks we're doing. Go ahead settle for someone who can bring you a .500% (hope for) record, pay him a decent salary (whatever that is) and call it a day. Otherwise, expect your HC to truly give you your money's worth. BTW I have no problem with paying a HC a very competitive salary as long as he gets the job done.

However, it ultimately matters not one bit what either you or I think or feel. Powers far and above our "pay grade" are going to make those decisions. The only thing I can do is express my opinion, continue supporting the program, and ultimately hope for the very best.

[ricepig]

Rice, it just so happens that I did run a very successful investment business for over 35 years and sold it for a very nice chunk of change to help fund my retirement. Not bragging, just fact-and since you DID bring it up. Nonetheless, as I will once again point out IF the BOT or, whoever's is involved, is not going hold your HC accountable for ALL aspects of the program, including wins/losses, then don't bother paying the guy the kind of bucks we're doing. Go ahead settle for someone who can bring you a .500% (hope for) record, pay him a decent salary (whatever that is) and call it a day. Otherwise, expect your HC to truly give you your money's worth. BTW I have no problem with paying a HC a very competitive salary as long as he gets the job done.

However, it ultimately matters not one bit what either you or I think or feel. Powers far and above our "pay grade" are going to make those decisions. The only thing I can do is express my opinion, continue supporting the program, and ultimately hope for the very best.

$4m is a decent salary, and I guess you are in the camp that the coaches are just sitting on their asses collecting their checks. Now, they may not be giving you the results you wish for, but they earn their pay. Again, don't expect everyone to have to same timeframe for results as you do.

[Oklahawg]

One thing seems clear.

When taking into account his full body of work as AD at Arkansas (finances, facilities, academics, success in various sports), the BOT chose not to fire Jeff Long. In fact, they chose to reward him.

I would wager that most Razorback fans who have a problem with Long feel that way because football is their first priority. It is not the first priority of our Chancellor, our UA President, or our BOT.

Have you ever considered that the people at UA who Jeff Long answers to share his philosophy of the proper role of intercollegiate athletics, and he theirs?

Kudos to Oklahawg for giving me another perspective to think about.

Thanks for the mention. For others:

The last major hire at UA was Joseph Steinmetz as Chancellor. He came to UA from tOSU. There were two candidates that were more familiar to UA that were looked past in favor of Steinmetz. There is not a single BOT who is a "football person" and maybe not even any who are "big" into athletics. That is how BOTs typically work.

Steinmetz is here to keep UA into the top tier Carnegie Research Institutions. It is an elite list, 115 or so in number: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_research_universities_in_the_United_States

The next challenge for Steinmetz (might be a 20 year project) is to get UA into the AAU top universities list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities

The only SEC members are Florida, Missouri, and Vanderbilt. The entire B1G are members except for a recent departing school, Nebraska. That is the culture Steinmetz came from.

Given the corporate resources, diversity of students courtesy of the aggressive out-of-state recruiting of students, and overall academic culture at UA, this is not unreasonable. In light of that perceived goal, the particulars of wins/losses by the football team are obviously secondary. The other things we note about Long - advocates tout them, cynics decry them - fit this model.

Lost on too many fans, especially fans who are not a part of a major university culture at some point in their life, is the notion that institutional narratives are written over decades, if not centuries, and day-to-day or annual shifts are looked past in favor of longer term trends. The SEC era for UA football has not been kind, but it has coincided with a tremendous growth in the UA as a university, a substantial increase in academic reputation/respect, and we have seen a number of sports enjoy success.

In sports, a decade is an eternity. To a university, it is a blink of the eyes.

Long will be here until he retires, if he chooses. He will run the athletic department as he has in the past - discreetly, of course, with appropriate levels of communication with the BOT about what is happening with the various programs (and their coaching hires). Long has never hired without the behind-the-scenes knowledge of the BOT. The contracts are similarly vetted. "Personnel discussions" are legally kept private and fans will not know most of the details.

If you survey P5 schools, most will view how Long runs things quite favorably. Long has tremendous respect and clout from these peer institutions. The details of UA sports are far in the background of these conclusions. Not surprisingly, the details are what fans see, who also fail to see or understand the respect.

Or, in shorter words borrowed from Wilson: Long shares the philosophy (of the role of athletics in higher education) of the upper administration and BOT. That makes him very unlikely to leave, or receive undo oversight (dare I say, meddling?) on things even as significant as the hiring/firing of a football coach.

[jkstock04]

$4m is a decent salary, and I guess you are in the camp that the coaches are just sitting on their asses collecting their checks. Now, they may not be giving you the results you wish for, but they earn their pay. Again, don't expect everyone to have to same timeframe for results as you do.

Bielema has earned his pay? That's hilarious. What would things look like if he wasn't earning his pay?

[Oklahawg]

You make an interesting point, but as the parent of a UofA freshman, I can tell you which choice I would make.  In fact I did make that very decision when I transferred from Fayetteville after my freshman year to continue my education elsewhere.  I still watch every football game when available (which thanks to the SEC network is much more than in the 90's) and call the hogs from my living room.  I consider myself a fan, having grown up rooting for the hogs against the big bad Texas schools in the SWC it's in my blood and that's true regardless of the win/loss record.  Yes I want the Hogs to win, but that should not be the priority for the school or the Administration.  It's an educational institution and it's goal should be to improve the lives of the students first and athletics should be a tool to do that.  Focusing on the wins and losses of the football team while poo-pooing others schools who are academically superior is putting the cart before the horse in my opinion.

Now I'll step off of my soap box and try to add to this debate. 

I suspect you are right that many Hog fans are not alumni (although saying a majority are not is hopefully hyperbole).  However I think this might be more true of the older fans than younger.  Most Razorback fans are traditionally native Arkansans, and in the late middle of the last century I suspect few college age kids from areas far from NWA were able to go away to school in Fayetteville.  I imagine most would find a college more local to home while continuing to root for the biggest college in the state, the one with the most visibility.

Today most of the students come from areas far from NWA, with a lot coming from Texas thanks to the UofA's scholarship policy which takes advantage of Texas's restrictive acceptance policies.  For the most part they are not born-and-bred Razorback fans.  Their fandom will be a result of their time on the Hill.  I imagine that the parents of the current and future UofA grads would not mind sending their kids to a school with the academic credibility and financial potential of Vanderbilt.  They might even be willing to give up a couple of football wins every year to get there.  I hope the Chancellor and BOT feel that way, because in the end their job is to make the UofA a great educational institution, not a great football school.

-phil

Great words.

[Oklahawg]

Bielema has earned his pay? That's hilarious. What would things look like if he wasn't earning his pay?

Of course coaches earn their pay. The only time you encounter coaches not earning their pay: going on recruiting trips so you can get laid vs actually recruit, or taking a one-year interim position to help cover for a pending personal bankruptcy.

Coaches don't like to lose! They more than earn their paycheck, but some are more successful than others. Every time there is a win there is a loss. The devil is in the details of those wins and losses.

[hawgon]

Of course coaches earn their pay. The only time you encounter coaches not earning their pay: going on recruiting trips so you can get laid vs actually recruit, or taking a one-year interim position to help cover for a pending personal bankruptcy.

Coaches don't like to lose! They more than earn their paycheck, but some are more successful than others. Every time there is a win there is a loss. The devil is in the details of those wins and losses.

No, he isn't earning his pay.  Paying someone because you think they work hard is some sort of egalitarian bullcrap.  People deserve to get paid because of results.  You don't earn it unless you make the sale or win the game and sometimes some guy's half assed effort is better and more deserving than your one hundred and ten percent because he makes the sale and you don't.

[grayhawg]

If no one on the BOT is interested in athletics and our athletic director is not interested in winning. We are destined to be the whipping boy of the conference and the people who control things could care less. Sounds like we're screwed

[ricepig]

Thanks for the mention. For others:

The last major hire at UA was Joseph Steinmetz as Chancellor. He came to UA from tOSU. There were two candidates that were more familiar to UA that were looked past in favor of Steinmetz. There is not a single BOT who is a "football person" and maybe not even any who are "big" into athletics. That is how BOTs typically work.

Steinmetz is here to keep UA into the top tier Carnegie Research Institutions. It is an elite list, 115 or so in number: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_research_universities_in_the_United_States

The next challenge for Steinmetz (might be a 20 year project) is to get UA into the AAU top universities list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities

The only SEC members are Florida, Missouri, and Vanderbilt. The entire B1G are members except for a recent departing school, Nebraska. That is the culture Steinmetz came from.

Given the corporate resources, diversity of students courtesy of the aggressive out-of-state recruiting of students, and overall academic culture at UA, this is not unreasonable. In light of that perceived goal, the particulars of wins/losses by the football team are obviously secondary. The other things we note about Long - advocates tout them, cynics decry them - fit this model.

Lost on too many fans, especially fans who are not a part of a major university culture at some point in their life, is the notion that institutional narratives are written over decades, if not centuries, and day-to-day or annual shifts are looked past in favor of longer term trends. The SEC era for UA football has not been kind, but it has coincided with a tremendous growth in the UA as a university, a substantial increase in academic reputation/respect, and we have seen a number of sports enjoy success.

In sports, a decade is an eternity. To a university, it is a blink of the eyes.

Long will be here until he retires, if he chooses. He will run the athletic department as he has in the past - discreetly, of course, with appropriate levels of communication with the BOT about what is happening with the various programs (and their coaching hires). Long has never hired without the behind-the-scenes knowledge of the BOT. The contracts are similarly vetted. "Personnel discussions" are legally kept private and fans will not know most of the details.

If you survey P5 schools, most will view how Long runs things quite favorably. Long has tremendous respect and clout from these peer institutions. The details of UA sports are far in the background of these conclusions. Not surprisingly, the details are what fans see, who also fail to see or understand the respect.

Or, in shorter words borrowed from Wilson: Long shares the philosophy (of the role of athletics in higher education) of the upper administration and BOT. That makes him very unlikely to leave, or receive undo oversight (dare I say, meddling?) on things even as significant as the hiring/firing of a football coach.

We have a former All-American basketball player on it, so I'd say someone that is aware of athletics. Now, is he a meddling type, don't know, he's new to the board.

[31to6]

You really don't know that.  And you're one of the smarter guys here.  You know that TCU, A&M and SC all could have gone the other way. 

I'm going to take issue with this assertion.

Against TCU and USC we were overmatched and it was just obvious. A&M I will give you because, obviously, an OT game is the very definition of tossup(that we should have won in regulation with better coaching).

But the team that took the field against TCU & USC could not beat those teams if they played 100 times. It would have required one of those teams imploding for it to be close because they both whipped us badly in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

[Vantage 8 dude]

$4m is a decent salary, and I guess you are in the camp that the coaches are just sitting on their asses collecting their checks. Now, they may not be giving you the results you wish for, but they earn their pay. Again, don't expect everyone to have to same timeframe for results as you do.

And I'm very well aware that many will not agree with me. And yes, I'm perfectly fine with that 'cause it's a fan board and as such, opinions, various beliefs, etc of all types are welcome and encouraged. With that in mind I've expressed my personal opinion/viewpoint. Whether or not others agree or disagree ultimately doesn't matter. We don't have the final say so no matter what our personal opinions/beliefs. I've merely stated my frustration and unhappiness. Enough said.

[Oklahawg]

No, he isn't earning his pay.  Paying someone because you think they work hard is some sort of egalitarian bullcrap.  People deserve to get paid because of results.  You don't earn it unless you make the sale or win the game and sometimes some guy's half assed effort is better and more deserving than your one hundred and ten percent because he makes the sale and you don't.

So, how much more do we need to pay to convert TCU or A&M to the win column? This is what you are saying - our coaches earn $X million and we are not getting enough wins. Logically, by spending a certain amount you get that.

And, by connection, why should a coach work hard for less? If we pay CBB $4M annually how could we hire a replacement without spending more?

I was at the gym earlier tonight. This guy was on a treadmill barely walking, focused instead on his text messages or email. Another guy was benching about a third of his weight, not having to work at all, barely sweating really, but "working out." What you seem to be wanting is for the work the coaches are expending to be more successful or efficient. THAT I get.

What you are saying, in effect, is that if you are the #18 coaching salary in the country you should be producing the #18 win/loss record. If not, then what you are doing is not maximizing your efforts or you are being overpaid. It is not effort, though, it is productivity - I bet Barry Alvarez could spend two weeks in CBB's office and suddenly we'd fix a lot. Why? CBB benefits from Alvarez's eyes and vision. He sees things CBB doesn't see. That is a reality for an awful lot of good, but not great, coaches.

Maybe I am missing something.

[Oklahawg]

We have a former All-American basketball player on it, so I'd say someone that is aware of athletics. Now, is he a meddling type, don't know, he's new to the board.

Thanks, I was unaware of that. A good addition, I presume.

[Oklahawg]

I'm going to take issue with this assertion.

Against TCU and USC we were overmatched and it was just obvious. A&M I will give you because, obviously, an OT game is the very definition of tossup(that we should have won in regulation with better coaching).

But the team that took the field against TCU & USC could not beat those teams if they played 100 times. It would have required one of those teams imploding for it to be close because they both whipped us badly in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

OK, your position actually worsens because you said "100 times." In a 100 times UA would beat Bama once. If you argue that UA would lose to TCU and USC-E 6 out of 10, then that is a reasonable assertion.

I agree on the OT - that is a 50/50 game. TCU was "right there" - gave it away late when we weren't "in" the game. Hard to see our offense gifting 21 points to USC-E even once out of 10 games. While it would be considered ugly, we would have been "right there" again.

I don't like "woulda coulda shoulda" but we have to at least be reasonable with our declarations, right?

[hawgon]

So, how much more do we need to pay to convert TCU or A&M to the win column? This is what you are saying - our coaches earn $X million and we are not getting enough wins. Logically, by spending a certain amount you get that.

And, by connection, why should a coach work hard for less? If we pay CBB $4M annually how could we hire a replacement without spending more?

I was at the gym earlier tonight. This guy was on a treadmill barely walking, focused instead on his text messages or email. Another guy was benching about a third of his weight, not having to work at all, barely sweating really, but "working out." What you seem to be wanting is for the work the coaches are expending to be more successful or efficient. THAT I get.

What you are saying, in effect, is that if you are the #18 coaching salary in the country you should be producing the #18 win/loss record. If not, then what you are doing is not maximizing your efforts or you are being overpaid. It is not effort, though, it is productivity - I bet Barry Alvarez could spend two weeks in CBB's office and suddenly we'd fix a lot. Why? CBB benefits from Alvarez's eyes and vision. He sees things CBB doesn't see. That is a reality for an awful lot of good, but not great, coaches.

Maybe I am missing something.

You are missing a lot. He isn't earning his money if he is being paid $50k a year.  I don't care if the coach is more efficient or not.  I don't care if he works 20 hours a day or two.  There is only one measure of if he is doing enough.  That, of course, is wins.

[31to6]

OK, your position actually worsens because you said "100 times." In a 100 times UA would beat Bama once. If you argue that UA would lose to TCU and USC-E 6 out of 10, then that is a reasonable assertion.

I agree on the OT - that is a 50/50 game. TCU was "right there" - gave it away late when we weren't "in" the game. Hard to see our offense gifting 21 points to USC-E even once out of 10 games. While it would be considered ugly, we would have been "right there" again.

I don't like "woulda coulda shoulda" but we have to at least be reasonable with our declarations, right?

haha.. so I should have been clear. We would obviously win some of those games. I used the word "beat" in the sense of us beating them rather then them beating themselves (imploding).

Clearly 100 times is hyperbole, but my point is that we lost those two games walking out of the tunnel for the second half. When you are losing the trenches on both sides, you might win, but it is going to be some big string of luck that makes it happen.

Edit: Also, I think the points we gifted USC were pretty close to inevitable. You can't let your QB get abused like that all game and not expect some bad turnovers.

[jkstock04]

If no one on the BOT is interested in athletics and our athletic director is not interested in winning. We are destined to be the whipping boy of the conference and the people who control things could care less. Sounds like we're screwed

My exact sentiments...as we sit today things look extremely bleak. Right now the Hogs are the team every other SEC team wants on their schedule for an easy win...and it looks like our administration couldn't care less.

[hamARchy in the USA]

The dedication to excellence of the JFB-led athletic dept didn't have to be junked to raise the academic profile of the university.  It should have been duplicated.   Now we have excellence in neither which indicates very poor leadership. 

[parallaxpig]

No, he made three terrible hires:

Jim Grobe
John L. Smith
Bret Bielema

I wouldn't trust him to hire a carpet cleaning service, much less another SEC head football coach.

Jimmy Dykes worked out well also. 

[bphi11ips]

I'm going to take issue with this assertion.

Against TCU and USC we were overmatched and it was just obvious. A&M I will give you because, obviously, an OT game is the very definition of tossup(that we should have won in regulation with better coaching).

But the team that took the field against TCU & USC could not beat those teams if they played 100 times. It would have required one of those teams imploding for it to be close because they both whipped us badly in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

Huh? Did you watch the games?

Arkansas was a PI away from being in a one point better situation at home than it was last year on the road with less than three minutes left in the game.  TCU has beaten one Top 10 team and one Top 25 team since.

Arkansas played SC on the road.  Not surprisingly given this is the SEC, the Hogs have lost there more than they have won.  The game was deadlocked 10-10 before SC scored just before halftime.  AA had a mental meltdown early in the third quarter and the team followed suit after two quick defensive scores resulted from the meltdown. 

Do the Hogs need to get over the losing mindset?  Yes.  Do they suck?  No.  Most of their fans suck, but the team doesn't. 

[Hogs-n-Roses]

What a pompus bunch of A wads. So The pics of me in a hog outfit at 1 year old, a full hog uniform at 4(helmet ,shoulder pads and cleats included), first grade school pics in hog shirt,started going to games round then, sat n listened to radio or watched on TV those that were. Went into high school n started traveling to every SWC venue all don't count or somehow I'm less of a fan cause after a couple of semesters up there my mom gets sick with cancer and the family gets tapped for money so I don't finish up there even though I've gone to games over the years n donated and traveled with the best of all y'all. Somehow I don't get it cause me and many others like me didn't get to spend a full 4 years up there. Your a blithering idiot for having suggested such!

[Pork Twain]

Long isn't leaving.

He'll sign a new contact soon and will be secure as the AD.

There is no reason to waste your angst over it. 

When the time comes, he will be front and center in hiring our next football coach.  However, he will have to "sell it" internally.

As with all things, something can happen that changes things but unless he's busted in a scandal or some major job comes knocking. ....he's our guy.

This is great news for all of us, even the ones that refuse to accept a carpetbagger.

[East Clintwood]

.  .  .  I hope the Chancellor and BOT feel that way, because in the end their job is to make the UofA a great educational institution, not a great football school.



-phil

The two are not mutually exclusive.

[Vantage 8 dude]

The two are not mutually exclusive.

You are SO correct.

[The OTR]

Sorry I missed this anger filled thread yesterday.  Looks like it was lots of fun. 

[ricepig]

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Correct, but because the BOT moves at a slower pace than HV, they don't care, lol.....

[ricepig]

No, he isn't earning his pay.  Paying someone because you think they work hard is some sort of egalitarian bullcrap.  People deserve to get paid because of results.  You don't earn it unless you make the sale or win the game and sometimes some guy's half assed effort is better and more deserving than your one hundred and ten percent because he makes the sale and you don't.

So, give the next coach a one game contract, two games, what's your limit? If they have a losing record, fire them after the first year?

[jkstock04]

Huh? Did you watch the games?

Arkansas was a PI away from being in a one point better situation at home than it was last year on the road with less than three minutes left in the game.  TCU has beaten one Top 10 team and one Top 25 team since.

Arkansas played SC on the road.  Not surprisingly given this is the SEC, the Hogs have lost there more than they have won.  The game was deadlocked 10-10 before SC scored just before halftime.  AA had a mental meltdown early in the third quarter and the team followed suit after two quick defensive scores resulted from the meltdown. 

Do the Hogs need to get over the losing mindset?  Yes.  Do they suck?  No.  Most of their fans suck, but the team doesn't. 

If this isn't a "sucky" Hog team/coaches...would you mind pointing to me a year when they did suck? Recent memory I would go with 2013, but my opinion the 2013 team would find some way to beat this years team. We are a BAD football team this year. Really bad. We can't block, we can't tackle, can't run the ball, can't really pass the ball, special teams are awful, slow team speed, coaches are awful....that about covers it.

I was one of the few "sucky" fans that traveled to the South Carolina game...you don't realize what a mismatch that game was. If we played South Carolina 10 times they would smoke us just as badly or worse 9 times out of 10. In the facets I described above they are better than us in every one.

[jgphillips3]

I think any rational analysis of the situation says that CBB is an absolute failure but that Long is at worst a mixed bag and at best competent if uninspiring.  I could easily see the BOT telling Long exactly what he must do, then extending his contract. 

[jst01]

Sorry I missed this anger filled thread yesterday.  Looks like it was lots of fun. 

It's been good.  I cant remember the exact categories from your recent HV thesis, but its been a classic battle between the 'soreheads' and 'insiders'.  Lots of sarcasm and ellipses flowing back and forth.

[Ironhawg]

One thing seems clear.

When taking into account his full body of work as AD at Arkansas (finances, facilities, academics, success in various sports), the BOT chose not to fire Jeff Long. In fact, they chose to reward him.

I would wager that most Razorback fans who have a problem with Long feel that way because football is their first priority. It is not the first priority of our Chancellor, our UA President, or our BOT.

Have you ever considered that the people at UA who Jeff Long answers to share his philosophy of the proper role of intercollegiate athletics, and he theirs?

Kudos to Oklahawg for giving me another perspective to think about.

First, I have no feelings one way or the other about Long.  He seems to do a decent job at managing the business that is Razorback athletics.  Second, I have a great deal of respect for you, Wilson, and Oklahawg.  You both bring a wealth of information and well-considered posts to this site.  I just need some clarification on whether or not the people in charge are committed to winning in the SEC?  Because if they are not, we are in the wrong division and the wrong conference. 

[LRrazorback]

CBB has set records for being bad. He needs to go. Between the two of them they've managed to lower our standards to vandy type aspirations.

WE'RE BETTER THAN THIS! WE CAN DO BETTER!

If only I could get to a rooftop without killing myself , I'd scream this.

[The OTR]

It's been good.  I cant remember the exact categories from your recent HV thesis, but its been a classic battle between the 'soreheads' and 'insiders'.  Lots of sarcasm and ellipses flowing back and forth.

Anytime the insiders come in with information such as this and a few eggheads come in and throw gas on the fire and insult the proletariat in general for ever thinking something so wrongheaded as Long getting fired the soreheads will come out in force ready to fight the insiders.  It's so predictable. 

[Hogs-n-Roses]

Anytime the insiders come in with information such as this and a few eggheads come in and throw gas on the fire and insult the proletariat in general for ever thinking something so wrongheaded as Long getting fired the soreheads will come out in force ready to fight the insiders.  It's so predictable. 

So its the 5% on here.

Checked out rivals free stuff and they stated that in their recent poll on Beilema's approval rating it was the lowest since they started doing polls.

[Pig in the Pokey]

I suspect it's already a done deal. 

However, I am concerned that Long may be involved with the next hire.  That should send shivers down every fan's spine.

so, I guess I won that argument over on tRant , then, b/c NOW you agree with me.

[latrops]

The best thing to do for everyone concerned is to see what happens and hope for the best. Many teams have shot themselves in the foot with impatience. Gary Pinkel mentioned Missouri yesterday at the NWA Touchdown Club. Tennessee is an obvious example, and they're about to do it again with Butch Jones. Florida can't wait after Spurrier.

Arkansas has not played as poorly as everyone here thinks. They've lost to 4 good football teams and could have won 3. The scores in SC and TCU weren't indicative of the games.

Giving Bret Bielema the final year on his contract makes sense for a lot of reasons short and long term. Few here like to admit that right now, but if we win 4 of 6 it will be their idea.

This season's losses are more the final nails in the coffin than the basis for dumping Bielema.  The pitiful finish last year, 56-3, the fact he has zero come from behind wins here (trailing at halftime), his 0 SEC win first season, and his overall conference record all point to a guy that simply isn't getting it done. 

He has done nothing here to suggest that a string of 8+ win seasons are on the horizon.  All indications are that he doesn't have what it takes to win in the SEC at Arkansas.

[hogcard1964]

Of course coaches earn their pay. The only time you encounter coaches not earning their pay: going on recruiting trips so you can get laid vs actually recruit, or taking a one-year interim position to help cover for a pending personal bankruptcy.

Coaches don't like to lose! They more than earn their paycheck, but some are more successful than others. Every time there is a win there is a loss. The devil is in the details of those wins and losses.

Earning and deserving are not mutually exclusive.

[Ex-Trumpet]

Bielema has earned his pay? That's hilarious. What would things look like if he wasn't earning his pay?

Generally, I like look at someone's pay as an investment.  If they are making a profit for their employer then they are worth the investment, ie, earning their pay.  Look at what celebs get paid to endorse a product...are they "earning" their pay?

Of course, things can change...celebs can get busted for DUI or banging Perkins waitresses.  At such point their pay or employment status would need to be reviewed to see if their endorsements are an asset or a liability.

[31to6]

Huh? Did you watch the games?

Yes. I watched TCU twice (in person, on DVR). I only watched USC once, on DVR.

We were not winning the war in the trenches in either game. On defense, very little pressure or penetration. On offense, we struggled to run the ball or protect the QB.

You lose that battle, winning is very unlikely.

[The_Iceman]

I'm not convinced CBB is leaving either.

Unless he finishes 7-5, I don't see it either. 6-6 probably won't be enough. Missing a bowl and he is for sure gone.

[GuvHog]

Yes. I watched TCU twice (in person, on DVR). I only watched USC once, on DVR.

We were not winning the war in the trenches in either game. On defense, very little pressure or penetration. On offense, we struggled to run the ball or protect the QB.

You lose that battle, winning is very unlikely.

You do realize the TCU game was a 14-7 game in the 4th Quarter until an offensive turnover and a kickoff receiving team turnover gave them their final 2 TDs don't you?? That was a game the Hogs should have won.

[Ex-Trumpet]

You do realize the TCU game was a 14-7 game in the 4th Quarter until an offensive turnover and a kickoff receiving team turnover gave them their final 2 TDs don't you?? That was a game the Hogs should have won.

It's a game the Hogs "could" have won due to TCU repeatedly trying to lose.  TCU found a way to win when they did not play up to their potential.