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Wow! New CTE study shows...

Started by Peter Porker, July 25, 2017, 11:02:40 am

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Peter Porker

Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

RazorWest

I love watching football, but I really feel it's a dying sport. Many Mothers and fathers will refuse to let their kids play.  The talent pool will shrink

 

sowmonella

What percent of the entire population had the same results? Where there no bench warmers, punters, kickers or long snappers in the survey? 110 out of 111 is a very fishy percentage and it's being reported by CNN so take it with a grain of salt. What percentage of soccer players or basketballers??
Not trying to brag or make anyone jealous but I can still fit into the same pair of socks I wore in high school.
Proud member since August 2003

hogsanity

Quote from: Peter Porker on July 25, 2017, 11:02:40 am
110 of 111 x-NFL football players had CTE


http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/health/cte-nfl-players-brains-study/index.html

Wow, a disease which is apparently caused by repeated head trauma is prevalent in a game in which players repeatedly get hit in the head or receive contact which jars their brain, slamming it into the skull over and over.

Now of course will come the cavalcade of " this is bull " " this is just part of a softening society " " football makes you tough" etc, none of which has anything to do with the actual article of course.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

navyhog24


Tusks

sometimes it's a good and some times it's a schit

311Hog

Quote from: sowmonella on July 25, 2017, 11:23:47 am
What percent of the entire population had the same results? Where there no bench warmers, punters, kickers or long snappers in the survey? 110 out of 111 is a very fishy percentage and it's being reported by CNN so take it with a grain of salt. What percentage of soccer players or basketballers??

didn't read the article?  first paragraph says that 99% of the "brains donated" for research were found to have CTE.  So i am assuming that 111 former NFL players have died and donated their brains to research and of those 110 were found to have CTE.

redneckfriend

A dramatic confirmation of what everyone now knows. There is a caveat- many of these players were examined because their families thought they showed symptoms ante-mortem. Still it is strong evidence of the consequences of repeated hits to the head, even those that fall below the definition of concussion.

redneckfriend

Quote from: navyhog24 on July 25, 2017, 11:25:59 am
= Fake News

Actually the way you can tell real from fake- if it isn't reported by Faux News it is real news.

LRHog

Quote from: 311Hog on July 25, 2017, 11:27:18 am
didn't read the article?  first paragraph says that 99% of the "brains donated" for research were found to have CTE.  So i am assuming that 111 former NFL players have died and donated their brains to research and of those 110 were found to have CTE.

breaking news: small sample size of a narrow segment of the population that is exposed to all the right conditions have this disease.

I'm also the first white male with 2.33'' hair that is light brown in color with green eyes with eye lashes .02% longer than average that has walked on the moon.

See how conditions can skew data.

hoggusamoungus

Quote from: sowmonella on July 25, 2017, 11:23:47 am
What percent of the entire population had the same results? Where there no bench warmers, punters, kickers or long snappers in the survey? 110 out of 111 is a very fishy percentage and it's being reported by CNN so take it with a grain of salt. What percentage of soccer players or basketballers??

CNN is quoting the Journal of American Medicine.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2645104

311Hog

Quote from: LRHog on July 25, 2017, 11:30:41 am
breaking news: small sample size of a narrow segment of the population that is exposed to all the right conditions have this disease.

I'm also the first white male with 2.33'' hair that is light brown in color with green eyes with eye lashes .02% longer than average that has walked on the moon.

See how conditions can skew data.

Breaking news denial denial denial denial, oh wait i am dead but but but shiet i shoulda done something when there was a chance....

CTE is real, if you played alot of football and are having symptoms you may want to seek help (if there is any because people keep denying it so no one will cure it oh except the blow a hole in your chest cure). 

And by alot i mean more than High School all american in division B.

LRHog

Quote from: 311Hog on July 25, 2017, 11:32:13 am
Breaking news denial denial denial denial, oh wait i am dead but but but shiet i shoulda done something when there was a chance....

Im not saying it doesnt exist... Im not saying we shouldn't find ways to prevent it... but this is scare tactic bull that has no basis in reality. Tom Brady is doin just fine. So are thousands of other players.

 

Michael D Huff AIA

Quote from: redneckfriend on July 25, 2017, 11:29:48 am
Actually the way you can tell real from fake- if it isn't reported by Faux News it is real news.

This.

hogsanity

Quote from: LRHog on July 25, 2017, 11:33:17 am
Im not saying it doesnt exist... Im not saying we shouldn't find ways to prevent it... but this is scare tactic bull that has no basis in reality. Tom Brady is doin just fine. So are thousands of other players.

Wait. You say you are not saying it is not real.. so it is real, so real you think we should find ways to prevent it, BUT this something that is real has no basis in reality?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hoggusamoungus

Quote from: LRHog on July 25, 2017, 11:33:17 am
Im not saying it doesnt exist... Im not saying we shouldn't find ways to prevent it... but this is scare tactic bull that has no basis in reality. Tom Brady is doin just fine. So are thousands of other players.

The median age of those studied was 66.  Tom Brady ain't 66.

31to6


RME

Quote from: LRHog on July 25, 2017, 11:30:41 am
breaking news: small sample size of a narrow segment of the population that is exposed to all the right conditions have this disease.

I'm also the first white male with 2.33'' hair that is light brown in color with green eyes with eye lashes .02% longer than average that has walked on the moon.

See how conditions can skew data.

Lol. Do you even realize the point you just made?

Michael D Huff AIA

A little logic here would help.

Q.  Whose brains were studied?
A.  Former NFL players.  If you're a former player and you DON'T donate your brain to the study, you aren't in the study.  A much, much smaller number than 'all players' will be studied.

Q.  Why would a player want to donate their brain?
A.  Any number of reasons.  They got early onset dementia.  They exhibited symptoms of CTE but didn't get diagnosed while they were living.  They didn't believe the NFL and believed that head trauma caused permanent brain injury.  It's awful convenient that the NFL was adamant about there being no link between CTE and their game, and then three years later settled a lawsuit over the same subject, thus not having to admit responsibility or having to disclose what they know about it.

Q.  Isn't the math a little lopsided?  Tom Brady is doing great!
A.  The math isn't lopsided considering the sample size.  All those players had reasons for donating their brains, and mathematically speaking, 99.099% of them had CTE.  Do 99.099% of all NFL retirees have CTE?  Most likely not, but that number is way, way higher than anyone has thus far estimated.  Tom Brady has 5-6 other guys to make sure he doesn't get hit.  It's the offensive linemen and defensive players that are getting the disease.  Some players are doing great.  Some are most certainly not.  Some have literally lost their minds to the point that they committed suicide and/or killed others.

Q.  CNN reported it.  It's fake.
A.  CNN may have reported it, but did not do the research.  Boston University did, and has been doing CTE/brain study for 21 years.  Here is a link to their site, it's very interesting.   https://www.bu.edu/cte/   

Q.  If I self-select smokers, won't I get a higher rate of lung cancer than if I select people that don't smoke?  Aren't they monkeying with the data?
A.  Absolutely not.  We are not concerned with architects getting CTE (I am an architect), and the AIA has not said that CTE isn't a danger in our profession.  The architectural profession's retirees are not exhibiting early altzheimer's / dementia.  We ARE, however, concerned with former NFL players having the disease, and their league office has denied the connection.  Smoking was allegedly risk free for decades before study proved the opposite. 

Michael D Huff AIA


hogsanity

What I do not get is why so many people who really have no skin in this get so upset over CTE studies.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

311Hog

Quote from: hogsanity on July 25, 2017, 12:19:33 pm
What I do not get is why so many people who really have no skin in this get so upset over CTE studies.

their skin is in their attachment to the sport as a personality identifier.  They probably never actually played but they love football so much and so much of their identity is wrapped up in it any perceived threat is attacked.

Also i have come to discover a large group within our population just deny anything and everything outright regardless of fact or proof.  There is a sun and a moon -fake news.  You need oxygen to live - fake news  a significant portion of NFL athletes have gotten CTE - fake news..... 

longpig

Football will need 2nd amendment type protections if targeting rules are ineffective and premortem CTE diagnosis methods are developed.
Don't be scared, be smart.

go hogues

Quote from: 311Hog on July 25, 2017, 12:30:14 pm
Also i have come to discover a large group within our population just deny anything and everything outright regardless of fact or proof.  There is a sun and a moon -fake news.  You need oxygen to live - fake news  a significant portion of NFL athletes have gotten CTE - fake news..... 
And having leadership in this country who propagate that mindset does not help matters.

Back to the topic. It's going to cause the sport to change but I can't see it going away. Too many kids will want out of desperate life situations (and their desperate families will push them). A career in Pro football can do that. How do you get there? By playing youth/high school/college football.
Quote from: Leadbelly on September 24, 2019, 09:05:22 pm<br />Dude, our back has been against the wall so long, we are now on the other side of the wall!<br />

 

Dumb ole famrboy

Quote from: hogsanity on July 25, 2017, 11:52:18 am
Wait. You say you are not saying it is not real.. so it is real, so real you think we should find ways to prevent it, BUT this something that is real has no basis in reality?
Don't think he was saying CTE isn't a problem. He is just suggesting that the sample of the 111 was heavily weighted/skewed towards those individuals suspected/diagnosed of having CTE before their death. These tests were performed as confirmation of a previously diagnosed condition.

hogsanity

Quote from: go hogues on July 25, 2017, 12:43:13 pm

Too many kids will want out of desperate life situations (and their desperate families will push them). A career in Pro football can do that. How do you get there? By playing youth/high school/college football.


I'd say it has more to do with having good genes. Millions of kids play youth/jrhs/hs football every year and only a tiny fraction ever make it to d1 college much less the nfl.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hogsanity

Quote from: LRHog on July 25, 2017, 11:33:17 am
Im not saying it doesnt exist... Im not saying we shouldn't find ways to prevent it... but this is scare tactic bull that has no basis in reality. Tom Brady is doin just fine. So are thousands of other players.

Keith Richards is still upright and breathing after 60 years of doing every drug imaginable, but that does not mean those drugs do not pose a threat to anyone using/abusing them.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Michael_E_Davis

I know!  Let's turn all football; college and professional into flag football!  That way the girls can join the men's football teams too.  Hell,  you already have men (as trans-gender) joining women's teams.  Why not?  Let's just go ahead and destroy the last few things that are actually still fun in society with feminism.  They are already working on video games;  might as well destroy sports too.
"I struggled through many problems in my life, most of which never happened." -Unknown

Wildhog

Quote from: hogsanity on July 25, 2017, 12:19:33 pm
What I do not get is why so many people who really have no skin in this get so upset over CTE studies.

Same here.  I love football but its not my health on the line.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

hogsanity

Quote from: Michael_E_Davis on July 25, 2017, 12:53:09 pm
I know!  Let's turn all football; college and professional into flag football!  That way the girls can join the men's football teams too. 


over react much? Geesh.  BTW, girls can already join football teams.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Wildhog

Quote from: Michael_E_Davis on July 25, 2017, 12:53:09 pm
I know!  Let's turn all football; college and professional into flag football!  That way the girls can join the men's football teams too.  Hell,  you already have men (as trans-gender) joining women's teams.  Why not?  Let's just go ahead and destroy the last few things that are actually still fun in society with feminism.  They are already working on video games;  might as well destroy sports too.

You're saying CTE is feminism?
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

hogsanity

Quote from: Wildhog on July 25, 2017, 12:55:30 pm
Same here.  I love football but its not my health on the line.

I love watching. I love officiating it. I loved watching my older son play it. None of that means I ignore the risks or act like CTE is some grand conspiracy to ruin the game.

IF head trauma was not a real issue, the NFL would not have gone to the lengths it did to cover that up for as long as they could.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

go hogues

Quote from: hogsanity on July 25, 2017, 12:50:43 pm
I'd say it has more to do with having good genes. Millions of kids play youth/jrhs/hs football every year and only a tiny fraction ever make it to d1 college much less the nfl.
Right. The kids with good genes from desperate households will stay play football, meaning football is not going anywhere.
Quote from: Leadbelly on September 24, 2019, 09:05:22 pm<br />Dude, our back has been against the wall so long, we are now on the other side of the wall!<br />

LRHog

Quote from: hoggusamoungus on July 25, 2017, 11:55:44 am
The median age of those studied was 66.  Tom Brady ain't 66.

These people show symptoms LONG before they actually die. Just fyi.

longpig

Quote from: Michael_E_Davis on July 25, 2017, 12:53:09 pm
I know!  Let's turn all football; college and professional into flag football!  That way the girls can join the men's football teams too.  Hell,  you already have men (as trans-gender) joining women's teams.  Why not?  Let's just go ahead and destroy the last few things that are actually still fun in society with feminism.  They are already working on video games;  might as well destroy sports too.

I'm guessing you weren't the valedictorian of your GED class.
Don't be scared, be smart.

LRHog

Quote from: RyanMallettsEgo on July 25, 2017, 12:10:05 pm
Lol. Do you even realize the point you just made?

That picking a very small subset of players isnt proof of darn. Is CTE a thing. Yes. Is it a plague that will effect everyone that plays football at any type of competitive level? Absolutely not.

Michael_E_Davis

Quote from: longpig on July 25, 2017, 01:00:43 pm
I'm guessing you weren't the valedictorian of your GED class.

How did you know I got my G.E.D?   I worked hard for it, and I am still proud of it!  Oh, and thank you for mentioning Valedictorian;  the feminism/liberals are trying to get rid of it because it hurts people's feelings.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/17/schools-worry-about-kids-getting-too-competitive-remove-valedictorian-status/
"I struggled through many problems in my life, most of which never happened." -Unknown

greenie

It's a risky sport. No doubt.  In general, it pays them pretty well for the risk.  With that said, let's study the risks and try to minimize them (within reason), educate those who are lucky enough to be considered good enough to play, and then let them make the decision.  If they decide to play, its on them and no one else.


LRHog

Quote from: hogsanity on July 25, 2017, 12:52:32 pm
Keith Richards is still upright and breathing after 60 years of doing every drug imaginable, but that does not mean those drugs do not pose a threat to anyone using/abusing them.

See what you're failing to see here is that Keith Richards is an outlier in your data set. Much like players with CTE are an outlier within the data set of football players. A better example using your analogy would be to say, just cause Keith Richards can do drugs for decades without dying, the vast majority of drug users would die. Thus a small subset of football players will get CTE, while the majority will not. For all we know this study is saying 99% of Keith Richards didnt die from heavy multi-decade drug use. Rather than just saying 4% of drug users wont die.

People like to skew their statistics to make something seem far more prominent and horrific than it actually is. Instead of saying 99% of this conditioned subset of players had CTE, how about they do a study on all players from a time period and give the % of players from that non-narrowed down data pool that are affected by CTE.

99% of that data set could relate to 1% of players for all we know ( not saying its that low, just an example  ). I'd rather know the % chance over X years that a player will suffer from CTE rather than this bull stat thats been conditioned out to sound horrific.

Wildhog

Quote from: Michael_E_Davis on July 25, 2017, 01:06:00 pm
How did you know I got my G.E.D?   I worked hard for it, and I am still proud of it!  Oh, and thank you for mentioning Valedictorian;  the feminism/liberals are trying to get rid of it because it hurts people's feelings.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/17/schools-worry-about-kids-getting-too-competitive-remove-valedictorian-status/

You're stringing together some of the dumber thoughts I've ever seen posted on this board.  Bravo.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

Cinco de Hogo

Do we need to do away with soliders or do we just need to find a way to keep them from getting hurt?

In this day and age it's probably easier to keep a soldiers safe than a football player. 

So if we do away with all contact sports(kinda like Little Rock did) and we turn all those kids lose on the streets how many will die young versus 50-100 each year at age 66, many after enjoying a decent to good life.

Why do normal people get dementia?   

Michael_E_Davis

Quote from: Wildhog on July 25, 2017, 12:56:55 pm
You're saying CTE is feminism?

No, CTE is not feminism -  I am talking about the feminist/liberal ideology of safety before fun.  I am talking about a young boys brain being infected with feminism,  which is far more dangerous than the possibility of a concussion in football. They are taking away everything.  Do you remember Lawn Darts?  Me to!
"I struggled through many problems in my life, most of which never happened." -Unknown

hogsanity

Quote from: go hogues on July 25, 2017, 01:00:23 pm
Right. The kids with good genes from desperate households will stay play football, meaning football is not going anywhere.

exactly, so I do not know why people get so up in arms about a study that just backs up previous studies that CTE is a POSSIBLE health issue caused by repeated head trauma. IF this was a study of boxers, no one would think twice about it.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hogsanity

Quote from: Michael_E_Davis on July 25, 2017, 01:09:43 pm
No, CTE is not feminism -  I am talking about the feminist/liberal ideology of safety before fun.  I am talking about a young boys brain being infected with feminism,  which is far more dangerous than the possibility of a concussion in football. They are taking away everything.  Do you remember Lawn Darts?  Me to!

So should the players starting jrhs and hs practice in the next couple of weeks still do 3 a days without water too?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Wildhog

Quote from: Michael_E_Davis on July 25, 2017, 01:09:43 pm
No, CTE is not feminism -  I am talking about the feminist/liberal ideology of safety before fun.  I am talking about a young boys brain being infected with feminism,  which is far more dangerous than the possibility of a concussion in football. They are taking away everything.  Do you remember Lawn Darts?  Me to!

Seek help.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

LRHog

Quote from: hogsanity on July 25, 2017, 01:11:54 pm
So should the players starting jrhs and hs practice in the next couple of weeks still do 3 a days without water too?

Pft... dont have to worry about that bro, the feminists are taking our water too am i rite? :P

Michael_E_Davis

"I struggled through many problems in my life, most of which never happened." -Unknown

Wildhog

Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

311Hog

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on July 25, 2017, 01:08:48 pm
Do we need to do away with soliders or do we just need to find a way to keep them from getting hurt?

In this day and age it's probably easier to keep a soldiers safe than a football player. 

So if we do away with all contact sports(kinda like Little Rock did) and we turn all those kids lose on the streets how many will die young versus 50-100 each year at age 66, many after enjoying a decent to good life.

Why do normal people get dementia?   

Nice so play football or die in the streets are their two options?  and you say the American dream is still alive?

Also to your soldier point, to the tough guys posting in here about protecting the person.  Why aren't you up in arms about kevlar?  if soldiers were really tough they would go into battle in their boxers with a machine gun amirite? they should man up... please

311Hog

Quote from: Michael_E_Davis on July 25, 2017, 01:09:43 pm
No, CTE is not feminism -  I am talking about the feminist/liberal ideology of safety before fun.  I am talking about a young boys brain being infected with feminism,  which is far more dangerous than the possibility of a concussion in football. They are taking away everything.  Do you remember Lawn Darts?  Me to!

yeah i would rather be dead then a feminist liberal....wait wut?