So where does BA rank now among Hogs QBs?

[PossumFan]

I was thinking about this a few weeks ago and, as much as I like Brandon and have defended him against what I considered over-the-top criticism, I had him around Casey Dick level. Just too many QBs that I thought had a better resume' ... Mallett, of course, Grovey, Calcagni, Wilson, M. Jones, Stoerner. But he's been moving up the ladder these last few weeks. Heck, I might even put him No. 3. He's going to finish his career at or near the top in a lot of statistical categories, and he's playing at as high a level right now as any Arkansas QB I can remember. Not enough wins, but that's not all his fault. Only ranking the ones I've actually seen, which leaves out the likes of Lamar McHan and George Walker:   

1. Mallett.
2. Jones (Matt, not Tom)
3. Allen.
4. Grovey.
5. Wilson.
6. Stoerner.
7. Calcagni.
8. Montgomery.
9. Brittenum
10. Ferguson
11. Lunney. 
12. Taylor
13. Dick
14. Scanlon
15. Thomas
16. Marshall
17. Moore
18. Gray
19. South
20. Mustain

 
   

[Hogarusa]

#1! 

QBs should be ranked by their winning %.  they are blamed for the losses, the hero in the win.

NFL QBs are mainly ranked by their Super Bowl titles, there's a reason when talking about Peyton/Marino, people always clarify he is one of the best regular season QBs.  They don't have to say that with Brady/Montana

[hogsanity]

How are we ranking them? Based on wins? Td passes? Play making ability?  If it is just on what makes a great Qb all around, he may have to be #2 behind Ferguson. He does not have Rm's arm, or Mj's legs, but he also does not have their warts either.  For 2 of his 3 seasons he did not have much to throw to either ( at least not like he has now ).

[PossumFan]

How are we ranking them? Based on wins? Td passes? Play making ability?  If it is just on what makes a great Qb all around, he may have to be #2 behind Ferguson. He does not have Rm's arm, or Mj's legs, but he also does not have their warts either.  For 2 of his 3 seasons he did not have much to throw to either ( at least not like he has now ).

If ranking them on wins or TD passes, that would just involve looking up stats. This is everything combined _ stats, grit, wins, play-making ability, passing, running, pocket awareness, game management, etc., etc. ... plus my own biases, of course!

[hogsanity]

If ranking them on wins or TD passes, that would just involve looking up stats. This is everything combined _ stats, grit, wins, play-making ability, passing, running, pocket awareness, game management, etc., etc. ... plus my own biases, of course!

Then I'd still have to rank him 2nd behind Ferguson.

[TOM "tbw1"]

It makes you wonder what criteria is being used.

Billy Moore was the only All-America QB at Arkansas
Jon Brittenum quarterbacked an 10-1 team that led the nation in offense.
Bill Montgomery was 29-5 as a starter.
Fred Marshall quarterbacked our only national championship team.
Which quarterbacks won championships?

[Danny J]

The last 5 game stretch going back to Auburn is the best 5 game stretch I have ever seen by an QB at Arkansas....ever.

["Pickled" Pig's Pete]

Montgomery.  Lost 5 games in 3 years.  Left with every QB record, at that time.

I understand that the game has changed and his stats don't really compare, but to think his talent/abilities wouldn't translate to today's game is crazy.

[scruf]

The last 5 game stretch going back to Auburn is the best 5 game stretch I have ever seen by an QB at Arkansas....ever.

Agree.

[PossumFan]

It makes you wonder what criteria is being used.

Billy Moore was the only All-America QB at Arkansas
Jon Brittenum quarterbacked an 10-1 team that led the nation in offense.
Bill Montgomery was 29-5 as a starter.
Fred Marshall quarterbacked our only national championship team.
Which quarterbacks won championships?

Sounds like you're a big fan of the '60s. Me too. Brittenum might also be the only Arkansas QB who had a song recorded about him. That's legendary.

I hear you on championships, but that 1964 team was all about the defense. Five consecutive shutouts and only 64 points allowed all season. Fred Marshall was the quintessential game manager, which is exactly what that team needed. 

[TOM "tbw1"]

You have to give Fred credit for having the second highest passing yards in the conference in 1964.

[Aporkalypse Now]

Lamar McHan is number 1. Full stop.

Brandon Allen doesn't crack the top 10.

[IronHog]

Best way to rank them is to who would start at their peak.


Using that criteria Allen is a good ways down that list......

[Amityvillehogger]

Who would you want starting at QB for us in the National Championship game?

[OPoraquê]

(Just a side note...I continue to be amazed at the talent that was in the high school class of 2011 (which my son was part of), especially at the QB level.  Brandon Allen, Marcus Mariota, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater and Dak Prescott were all part of that group...though obviously only one of them was a Razorback.  )

[Locutus_of_Boar]

Here is the real question:  Where might Brandon Allen rank if Dan Enos had showed up with Bret Bielema's first staff in 2013?

[carolinahogger]

He is not in the top 10.  No way.

[bphi11ips]

Brad Taylor was similar in that he had some great games and was better than his record.

[Aporkalypse Now]

No offense to the older folks, but let's stick to since we joined the SEC since that is an entirely different game than what was played prior.

1. Mallet
2. Wilson
3. Jones
4. Stoerner
5. Lunney
6. Allen
7. Dick
8. Johnson

[pigture perfect]

No offense to the older folks, but let's stick to since we joined the SEC since that is an entirely different game than what was played prior.

1. Mallet
2. Wilson
3. Jones
4. Stoerner
5. Lunney
6. Allen
7. Dick
8. Johnson

I would put Jones at the top, bump your top 2 down and keep the rest the same.

[Aporkalypse Now]

I would put Jones at the top, bump your top 2 down and keep the rest the same.

IMO 18-8 as a starter gets RM #1. I could go either way on Wilson/Jones #2 and #3 respectively.

[presidenthog]

No offense to the older folks, but let's stick to since we joined the SEC since that is an entirely different game than what was played prior.

1. Mallet
2. Wilson
3. Jones
4. Stoerner
5. Lunney
6. Allen
7. Dick
8. Johnson

I'm sorry but wilson shouldn't be #2. look I know he was a pretty good QB but honestly right now brandon is better than wilson ever was.

Wilson locked in on 1 reciever (j Wright and then cobi). he couldn't read a defense, he didn't really go through his progressions. he only looked good because bobby told him who to throw it to. I know he won alot of games here but if you are objective about him playing the position and what it takes to really be a great one; wilson really wasn't that great and benefited from the system. Wilson wouldn't start in this offense today if he was on the team.

[onebadrubi]

Who would you want starting at QB for us in the National Championship game?

Give me Tyler Wilson with BA a close second.

[Pigliophile]

He saw us through a lot of turmoil. He will be remembered as keeping the ship on its path to greatneas

[PolishPigPower]

Two months ago this board wouldn't have ranked him in the Top 50.  Now y'all wanna put him Top 5.  WooPig... we may just be the most bipolar fanbase in the nation.   

[HogimusMaximus]

Top 7 in my book.

[PossumFan]

Appreciate all the input, y'all. Always interesting to see the different perspectives that lists like this bring to light.

I had Hampton low in my top 20 at one point but kept thinking of guys I liked a little better. Loved Robert Johnson as a competitor and a Hog, but just didn't think he made the cut either. Jackson didn't do enough in his short time with us, nor did Zac Clark ... though both went on to great things elsewhere. George McKinney might deserve some consideration, but I was pretty young and just can't remember him that well. Frankly just forgot about Peanut.

[OPoraquê]

Two months ago this board wouldn't have ranked him in the Top 50.  Now y'all wanna put him Top 5.  WooPig... we may just be the most bipolar fanbase in the nation.   

Setting the school game and career TD passing records will do that.

[IronHog]

I'm sorry but wilson shouldn't be #2. look I know he was a pretty good QB but honestly right now brandon is better than wilson ever was.

Wilson locked in on 1 reciever (j Wright and then cobi). he couldn't read a defense, he didn't really go through his progressions. he only looked good because bobby told him who to throw it to. I know he won alot of games here but if you are objective about him playing the position and what it takes to really be a great one; wilson really wasn't that great and benefited from the system. Wilson wouldn't start in this offense today if he was on the team.

Wilson was EXTREMELY gifted throwing the ball and a gamer.  He had no clue how to run the offense or call protections but he could flat sling it.......


I think he'd start over Allen.....esp both as 4th year players.

[IronHog]

Appreciate all the input, y'all. Always interesting to see the different perspectives that lists like this bring to light.

I had Hampton low in my top 20 at one point but kept thinking of guys I liked a little better. Loved Robert Johnson as a competitor and a Hog, but just didn't think he made the cut either. Jackson didn't do enough in his short time with us, nor did Zac Clark ... though both went on to great things elsewhere. George McKinney might deserve some consideration, but I was pretty young and just can't remember him that well. Frankly just forgot about Peanut.

I was joking about Hampton.

That was a low point for Hog football.

[Youngsta71701]

If we're going by stats he's right up there with Mallet and Wilson. If we're going by wins and winning % not so much.

[OPoraquê]

If we're going by stats he's right up there with Mallet and Wilson. If we're going by wins and winning % not so much.

One could look at it this way: without him, what might the season record be?

[IronHog]

One could look at it this way: without him, what might the season record be?

Depends who was starting?


Wilson would have handled TT, aTm, and Toledo no problem.

[Dr. Starcs]

I think the only fair way to do this is to rank them on 2 categories and then average them: qb rating and w/l record.

If I had the stats I'd be glad to do it.

[PonderinHog]

I think the only fair way to do this is to rank them on 2 categories and then average them: qb rating and w/l record.

If I had the stats I'd be glad to do it.

Just make some up to fit your agenda.  That's 87.369% of the posters on Hogville do anyway. 

[Dr. Starcs]

Lol!

Seriously, if there is a database for it, I'll put it together.

[davglo35]

Brandon Allen is as solid as they come. He has developed into a very good qb. He doesn't make mistakes like a lot of former good ones did. He throws it away when nothing is there. His play action roll out is as good as I've seen anywhere. He ranks very high on the list and I've seen a bunch of em.
It's amazing that the shotgun wasn't tried and utilized earlier than it was. It was just unheard of for a qb to not be under center. The shotgun's advantages are many. Qb's had to shuffle back and then read the defense and receivers and then either throw or scramble. The shotgun is much more efficient in that it gives the qb more time and he sees the field completely at the snap and watches the patterns develop. Totally revolutionized the passing game. Its definitely a different game now.

[thirrdegreetusker]

Brandon Allen is as solid as they come. He has developed into a very good qb. He doesn't make mistakes like a lot of former good ones did. He throws it away when nothing is there. His play action roll out is as good as I've seen anywhere. He ranks very high on the list and I've seen a bunch of em.
It's amazing that the shotgun wasn't tried and utilized earlier than it was. It was just unheard of for a qb to not be under center. The shotgun's advantages are many. Qb's had to shuffle back and then read the defense and receivers and then either throw or scramble. The shotgun is much more efficient in that it gives the qb more time and he sees the field completely at the snap and watches the patterns develop. Totally revolutionized the passing game. Its definitely a different game now.

Shotgun hurts this team in some situations. Our monster/big O-line could dominate on some quick-hitting running plays. But, with the QB in shotgun, no way to have a "dive" play in the playbook.

[Aporkalypse Now]

I won't argue with anyone's subjective opinions: they're yours, that's good enough for me.  How you rank folks is how you rank folks.

But I think it's crazy that BA plays well, recently, and folks desire to completely reevaluate his career?  It's similar to how Ali would blow for 4/5 of a round, come out with a flurry at the end and the judges would give it to him.

Yep, forget about his first three seasons and how he played, people don't even remember the fist 4 games of THIS season.  I've never seen a Razorback QB hotter than BA has been the last 5 games, but his career stats , especially in regards to w-l record are average at best.

[Dr. Starcs]

I started a thread listing every seasons starting qb from 1935 and his qb rating.

Working on the win% chart now.

Also going to factor in years started and hopefully have a finalized ranking of our qb's.

[wholehog92]

http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=585390.0;nowap

Interesting thread considering this one.

If we're talking the last 5 games of this season, he's the best ever.  If we're talking about his career at UA, it's a different conversation.  Because most don't play for 4 years, I think you have to break it down by season and compare them that way any more.

Why didn't anyone expect BA to hit the draft early or hang on his decision after last season?  It's because he didn't perform well enough to be considered yet.  We have had QBs that did exactly that in the past.  It does them a disservice to only look at career numbers on evaluation.

When BA was struggling, I opined his issue was between his ears and acknowledged his talent.  It appears he now has his confidence and he's doing great.  I wouldn't trade him for any QB in the country the way he is playing now.  I'm very happy for him and really enjoy watching him play.

[thirrdegreetusker]

Right now, he is playing as well as any Hog QB I have seen in the last 45 years. Overall career? Good, but not great.

The game of college football is cruel to QBs. A great running back, piling up yards for a poor team, is still considered great. A great QB piling up numbers on a losing team.............meh.

College QBs are (in no particular order) evaluated by:
(1) how often did their teams beat the "glamor" team of the conference?
(2) how many conference titles, won or shared?
(3) how many times did their teams earn the bowl berth given to the conference champ?
(4) were they genuinely FEARED by opponents?

Using these factors, Grovey is probably our best, based on 1, 2, and 3

Ferguson, Mallet, and Grovey probably are our best, based on #4.

As far as giving us the best chance to win, based on our talent relative to the talent of our opponents? Matt Jones

As far as taking a very talented team, and not screwing up our chances to win? Marshall, Brittenum, and Montgomery. Calcagni probably belongs here, too.