Type Rating

[bvillepig]

For you guys or gals with a type rating or multiple.

What kind of experience did you have when you got your first type rating and how demanding was it to say your instrument?

How difficult will it be for a someone with 1700 hours of single time 1400 retract  and an instrument rating to lets say get a Cessna 500 series type .

Would you get  multi time in a piston or would you get turbine time ?

I know that's a very broad question but would be interested in comments.

[Hogbus320]

That is not a very easy question to answer. Studying for a type is very intense. The only thing that makes it easier is to glean off of your own experience. Each time you fly something bigger and more complex it creates mental building blocks. A good example of this would be a V1 Cut in IFR conditions (which is a maneuver you will have to perform on any type ride).  You lose an engine at decision speed, by this time you should already know to kick the opposite pedal (multi-engine rating building block).  You will hit the clouds shortly after liftoff and should know if there are any special engine-out procedures for that runway (instrument rating building block).  Right now we are just to point of what you already know. Add to that understanding the special systems of that particular aircraft and performing QRH procedures all while keeping situational awareness. It's a lot to ask of a pilot. Where does it stack up against an instrument rating? Maybe not as much book study but very intense sim sessions. Can it be done? Sure. But if I were to make a recommendation I would say get your multi-engine and get at least a hundred "quality" hours. Flying IFR and shooting approaches as much as possible. Hope this helps.

[bvillepig]

I knew it would be a difficult question because its so broad and I appreciate the advice. I am just trying to get a feel if I really want to pursue this at this stage of my life.

[Hogbus320]

If you have any more questions about perusing an aviation career or flying fast airplanes let me know. I live in Bentonville and fly for Virgin America out of San Francisco. I've had a blessed career so far and would recommend it to anyone who has a passion for flying.

[bvillepig]

Great.  Are you out of XNA? I would love to meet you someday and have lunch to pick your brain. Maybe it could work for gotya "if your listening" to join us. I already owe him.

My son and daughter in law moved to Bentonville a couple of years ago and took my two beautiful granddaughters all the way across the state. Now I have to fly to see them which is not to bad either.

We are over here about every three weeks.  We also use the Saratoga on the business side.  A business partner has been trying to get me to get rid of the Toga for some time and upgrade. I wanted to move into a Single turbine because I have already received quotes and it was going to be pretty painless. Sim Com initial for Three days and 20 hours with an instructor.

I have not checked on multi piston or King air yet but I am sure it would be tougher also.

He would like for me to get a Citation 500 type. I have tried to steer him away because I just don't know if I want to go through something as demanding as I have it pictured. Therefore the question was an attempt to try get a picture of the difficulty. Again thanks for your help and input.

[Brownstreak]

Hogbus' advice is spot on.  I have 5 types and it never really gets easier.  Some have been harder than others, but much of that depends on the particular program and what sadist put it together.  My flight engineer ticket was probably the hardest thing I've done in aviation.  It's much like drinking through a firehose or another cliche would be trying to stuff 10# of sh-/ in a 5# bag.

Having said that, I've heard the Citation is a fairly docile jet and fun to fly.  Plus, you're the customer, so I would think they would do everything within reason to get you through the program.  I've only gotten my types through the airlines though, so I can't really say what a SimCom/Flight Safety type would be like.


Hogbus, that has to be a pretty tough commute from XNA to SFO!

[gotyacovered]

Great.  Are you out of XNA? I would love to meet you someday and have lunch to pick your brain. Maybe it could work for gotya "if your listening" to join us. I already owe him.

Say when/where and I'm there!

[Hogbus320]

Yes that commute sucks but I only work 12 days a month. Our PBS actually is favored toward the pilot...for now.

[Brownstreak]

Yes that commute sucks but I only work 12 days a month. Our PBS actually is favored toward the pilot...for now.

You're lucky about PBS!  When I worked at AMA we had PBS and it was....okay...
The Big Brown Stain has been frothing at the mouth to get it for years, but the pilot group has told them over and over that it won't happen.  It would be a nightmare with them putting their parameters in it.

Do you know Tom Messer at VA?  He's a good friend of mine.

[bvillepig]

Great Forum  !!!!

[Brownstreak]

For what it's worth, if I were to ever win the lottery, I'd buy a Pilatus PC12.  What a cool airplane.  It can get into almost anywhere, bulletproof engine, all the bells a whistles, same size and speed as a KingAir 200 at half the cost.

I drool when I see it!

[Brownstreak]

Bville,

Have you checked insurance on a citation or a turboprop?  That could have a huge bearing on the direction you end up going.  I'm FAR from an expert on insurance, but with no turbine multi or jet time, they might be reluctant to insure you unless you hire someone to fly with you for a certain amount of hours that  IS typed and qualified.

Food for thought...

[gotyacovered]

For what it's worth, if I were to ever win the lottery, I'd buy a Pilatus PC12.  What a cool airplane.  It can get into almost anywhere, bulletproof engine, all the bells a whistles, same size and speed as a KingAir 200 at half the cost.

I drool when I see it!

Me too...

[bvillepig]

Bville,

Have you checked insurance on a citation or a turboprop?  That could have a huge bearing on the direction you end up going.  I'm FAR from an expert on insurance, but with no turbine multi or jet time, they might be reluctant to insure you unless you hire someone to fly with you for a certain amount of hours that  IS typed and qualified.

Food for thought...

I have checked on the single turbine prop. It was not to bad. I need to go to sim com and then fly for 30 hours with an approved instructor in type.

It was not as bad as the Saratoga when I bought it.  I had 365 hours and my instrument with no retract. The cost was an eye opener the first year and I had to do 20 hours with an instructor.

I have not checked on the Citation because at this point I am just not sure that is the direction I would want to go even if someone else was footing most of the bill.

[Brownstreak]

Let us know what you do and how the training goes.  It sounds like you have some great options either way!

[Hogbus320]

I have indeed flown with Tom Messer several times. He's a good guy! He jokes how he lacks "people skills." 

[Hankweb]

Have flown 8 or 10 times with a PC12 owning friend out west (CO, NM, ID, WY). Kind of a let down to jump in the Bonanza and head for home An amazing aircraft that completely lives up to its hype. Incredibly responsive, power to spare, trailing link gear so even I couldn't screw up a landing....pavement grass gravel....
It will be my first lottery expenditure as well and I already (at least mentally) have that 4- 4.5 million set aside!
Although if your time window is 2 or 3 years out I'd check out the Kestrel. Klapmeier may indeed be creating the Holy Grail. Also expected to be "just" 3 million or less.

[Brownstreak]

I have indeed flown with Tom Messer several times. He's a good guy! He jokes how he lacks "people skills." 

The next time you fly with him, ask him about the girl with dentures during F27 training.  He'll know exactly what you're talking about.  One of several funny stories during that time that'll have you laughing.

[Hogbus320]

Will do!