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Author Topic: 2009 Heisman Trophy (ALL POSTS GO HERE!!!)  (Read 5458 times)

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The_Iceman

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Re: Heisman Trophy: Suh or Gerhart? Those are the only legitimate options
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2009, 09:44:11 am »

Gerhart.

The dude is a white running back who doesn't wear gloves! Doesn't get anymore Bad-A than that.

200 yds per game vs. ranked opponents is huge. He deserves it the same way McFadden did.
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DukeOfPork

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Re: Heisman Trophy: Suh or Gerhart? Those are the only legitimate options
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2009, 09:54:59 am »

This just in from the Downtown Athletic Club: "The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity. Winners epitomize great ability combined with diligence, perseverance, and hard work."

That should settle it. McCoy is the clear winner. End of thread.

Based on that criteria, McCoy is 3rd at best.
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tbhogfan

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Re: Heisman Trophy: Suh or Gerhart? Those are the only legitimate options
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2009, 09:58:20 am »

Suh is the best player in the country and plays for a team in a BCS conference.    I think McCoy will win, only because of his career accomplishments.
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Pig in the Pokey

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Re: Heisman Trophy: Suh or Gerhart? Those are the only legitimate options
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2009, 10:07:42 am »

suh, ftw.
anyone else is TOTAL FAIL

And, he shoulda been a Hog!
 Wooo0o Pig! Suuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh   eeeeeeeee!!!!!!
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ronmahony

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Re: Heisman Trophy: Suh or Gerhart? Those are the only legitimate options
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2009, 10:31:02 am »

I agree I think either one of them should win it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't give it to Teblow.
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Tejano Jawg

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Re: Heisman Trophy: Suh or Gerhart? Those are the only legitimate options
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2009, 10:35:15 am »

Several Dallas sportswriters said they'd pick Suh. Another said Gerhart. To their credit, McCoy only showed up as a runner up. And none had Timmy in the top 3.

On paper, I like Gerhart. (Which is how TT won it.)
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BrooklynRoss

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Re: Heisman Trophy: Suh or Gerhart? Those are the only legitimate options
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2009, 11:04:53 am »

I've actually never seen anything like Suh in my lifetime. If it were up to me, he'd be a lock. Ingram had an awesome year as well, but not on the level of Suh.
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Roadrunner

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Re: Heisman finalists announced
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2009, 02:09:57 pm »

should be between suh and mccoy and gerhart.

ingram is not that impressive and tebow had his run, neither should be included in this race.

Someone refresh my memory of DM's stats in single seasons. 
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hogsanity

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Re: Heisman finalists announced
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2009, 02:29:43 pm »

Suh should win because he is the BEST PLAYER.  He could line up on the offensive side and probably gain 50+ a game and catch 3 or 4 passes from the Fb position.  How many of the other guys could line up at DT and do anything?
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ADHog

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Re: Heisman finalists announced
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2009, 06:33:34 pm »

Why are there two threads on the Heisman??

I started this thread to inform hogville about that Heisman finalists. I didn't see any other threads about this last night when I got on here after the finalists were announced. All other threads were opinions about who will win and were started before the finalists were even announced, they were not factual, they were opinionated.
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dagnamit

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Re: Heisman Trophy: Suh or Gerhart? Those are the only legitimate options
« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2009, 06:46:19 pm »

I've actually never seen anything like Suh in my lifetime. If it were up to me, he'd be a lock. Ingram had an awesome year as well, but not on the level of Suh.
me too......Suh is the man
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jamie72921

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Re: Heisman Trophy: Suh or Gerhart? Those are the only legitimate options
« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2009, 06:49:28 pm »

If Gerhart were in the Bama backfield, how many carries does he get?

He would only be maybe the 3rd best back on his team much less the best in the country.

Ingram has earned it.
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jamie72921

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Re: 2009 Heisman discussion (merged)
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2009, 06:50:42 pm »

Suh should win because he is the BEST PLAYER.  He could line up on the offensive side and probably gain 50+ a game and catch 3 or 4 passes from the Fb position.  How many of the other guys could line up at DT and do anything?

I agree.

He should win based on probabilities alone.
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HawgBallLvr

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Re: 2009 Heisman discussion (merged)
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2009, 07:16:55 pm »

I started this thread to inform hogville about that Heisman finalists. I didn't see any other threads about this last night when I got on here after the finalists were announced. All other threads were opinions about who will win and were started before the finalists were even announced, they were not factual, they were opinionated.

ummm.. ok Looked the same to me. I must have missed it.
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FaytownHog

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Re: 2009 Heisman discussion (merged)
« Reply #64 on: December 09, 2009, 01:17:37 am »

Appearing on a Fort Smith radio show today, Otis Kirk said he put Mallett on his ballot. This ballot, not next year's ballot. He didn't say where.
that's awesome. he has the numbers. look at teblows bull crap numbers and he'll be in NYC.
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hawg IQ

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Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #65 on: December 09, 2009, 08:50:28 am »

It has been a joke every since they openly campaigned for Tebow when he was a sophomore.
Darrin McFadden was head and shoulders the best player in the country that year. If anything Felix Jones should have been runner up.

ESPN was piping all the BS about the best player on the best team crap. Hey I always felt the Heisman should always go to the "best player" period. The trophy is now degraded and tarnished
beyond being a true reflection of best football player in the country. It now has less meaning.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 08:53:15 am by hawg IQ »
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ebay286

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #66 on: December 09, 2009, 08:54:09 am »

So who should win it this year.
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josh_sec33

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2009, 09:00:26 am »

I'd say Gearhart or Suh. Honestly, this year is a toughy. At least I know it's not St. Timothy.
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razobak

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2009, 09:00:27 am »

So who should win it this year.

Best player in CFB:  Ndamukong Suh.

Best player on the best team:  Mark Ingram.

Player that single-handedly carried his team to waaay more wins than they should have gotten:  Toby Gerhart.

Media (read:  ESPN) Darling:  Tim Tebow.

You tell me.  What does the Heisman REALLY mean?
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Feralhog

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2009, 09:00:50 am »

It has been a joke every since they openly campaigned for Tebow when he was a sophomore.
Darrin McFadden was head and shoulders the best player in the country that year. If anything Felix Jones should have been runner up.

ESPN was piping all the BS about the best player on the best team crap. Hey I always felt the Heisman should always go to the "best player" period. The trophy is now degraded and tarnished
beyond being a true reflection of best football player in the country. It now has less meaning.

It's actually been a joke ever since Woodson won of Peyton Manning
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razobak

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2009, 09:02:09 am »

It's actually been a joke ever since Woodson won of Peyton Manning

True dat.

Troy Smith's win over DMAC in 06 was far more egregious than Tebow's win in 07.  Tebow deserved his with his ridiculous # of TDs, and the fact that he WAS the Gators' offense that year.  Troy Smith?  THAT was the definition of a publicity-driven Heisman victory.
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nebhog70

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2009, 09:07:23 am »

It has been a joke every since they openly campaigned for Tebow when he was a sophomore.
Darrin McFadden was head and shoulders the best player in the country that year. If anything Felix Jones should have been runner up.

ESPN was piping all the BS about the best player on the best team crap. Hey I always felt the Heisman should always go to the "best player" period. The trophy is now degraded and tarnished
beyond being a true reflection of best football player in the country. It now has less meaning.

Actually started when ESPN promoted Charles Woodson over Peyton Manning.
ESPN has determined the winner each year since then.
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The Marmot

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #72 on: December 09, 2009, 09:09:59 am »

At least I know it's not St. Timothy.

Don't be so sure.
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hogsanity

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #73 on: December 09, 2009, 09:16:46 am »

I heard this one a radio show yesterday, look at the HT winners before 1992 and after.  Before 1992 many HT winners went on to become above avg to great NFL players.  After that, very few have had anything in the nfl above avg.  Just a few pre 1992 winners, Marcus Allen, Tony Dorsett, Herschel Walker, Bo Jackson.  After 1992, Troy Smith, Chris Wienkie, Eric Couch. 
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hoginator

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #74 on: December 09, 2009, 10:44:12 am »

It will eventually become the hEiSPaN...
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Wild Bill Hog

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2009, 10:53:48 am »

So who should win it this year.

Tebow.
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hogsanity

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2009, 10:54:26 am »

It goes deeper than just ESPN.  What type of player is easier to hype, a DT at a school in the midwest or a Qb at a East or West Coast school?

Still, though, the blame lies with THE VOTERS.  Many are too lazy, apparently, to do the research themsleves. 
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ErieHog

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2009, 10:56:29 am »

I heard this one a radio show yesterday, look at the HT winners before 1992 and after.  Before 1992 many HT winners went on to become above avg to great NFL players.  After that, very few have had anything in the nfl above avg.  Just a few pre 1992 winners, Marcus Allen, Tony Dorsett, Herschel Walker, Bo Jackson.  After 1992, Troy Smith, Chris Wienkie, Eric Couch. 

That's a bit of a cherry pick effort, to compare 16 years to 58, and expect any kind of balance when it comes to professional success;  the Trophy, in it's history, has been a poor barometer, regardless of era-- but there has been significant success with several kids even in the past 16 years--  Woodson and Williams are closing in on Hall of Fame numbers, and Eddie George had at least a very *solid* NFL career, if short of a HOF standard.    For every Bo of the past, there's a John Cappalletti or a Pat Sullivan, who did nothing.
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hogsanity

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #78 on: December 09, 2009, 11:03:20 am »

That's a bit of a cherry pick effort, to compare 16 years to 58, and expect any kind of balance when it comes to professional success;  the Trophy, in it's history, has been a poor barometer, regardless of era-- but there has been significant success with several kids even in the past 16 years--  Woodson and Williams are closing in on Hall of Fame numbers, and Eddie George had at least a very *solid* NFL career, if short of a HOF standard.    For every Bo of the past, there's a John Cappalletti or a Pat Sullivan, who did nothing.

Here is the list from 70-90 then 91-2009.  Far more NFl success out of the first group.  I know it is simplistic, but one would think THE BEST PLAYER in college football could at leasr have an avg NFL career.

Year   Winner   School   Position   Points   
1970 Plunkett, JimJim Plunkett* Stanford Quarterback 2,229
1971 Sullivan, PatPat Sullivan Auburn Quarterback 1,597
1972 Rodgers, JohnnyJohnny Rodgers Nebraska Running back 1,310
1973 Cappelletti, JohnJohn Cappelletti Penn State Running Back 1,057
1974 Griffin, ArchieArchie Griffin Ohio State Running Back 1,920
1975 Griffin, ArchieArchie Griffin Ohio State Running Back 1,800
1976 Dorsett, TonyTony Dorsett^ Pittsburgh Running Back 2,357
1977 Campbell, EarlEarl Campbell*^ Texas Running Back 1,547
1978 Sims, BillyBilly Sims* Oklahoma Running Back 827
1979 White, CharlesCharles White USC Running Back 1,695
1980 Rogers, GeorgeGeorge Rogers* South Carolina Running Back 1,128
1981 Allen, MarcusMarcus Allen^ USC Running Back 1,797
1982 Walker, HerschelHerschel Walker Georgia Running Back 1,926
1983 Rozier, MikeMike Rozier Nebraska Running Back 1,801
1984 Flutie, DougDoug Flutie Boston College Quarterback 2,240
1985 Jackson, BoBo Jackson* Auburn Running Back 1,509
1986 Testaverde, VinnyVinny Testaverde* Miami Quarterback 2,213
1987 Brown, TimTim Brown Notre Dame Wide Receiver 1,442
1988 Sanders, BarryBarry Sanders^ Oklahoma State Running Back 1,878
1989 Ware, AndreAndre Ware Houston Quarterback 1,073
1990 Detmer, TyTy Detmer BYU Quarterback 1,482


1991 Howard, DesmondDesmond Howard Michigan Wide Receiver 2,077
1992 Torretta, GinoGino Torretta Miami Quarterback 1,400
1993 Ward, CharlieCharlie Ward Florida State Quarterback 1,743
1994 Salaam, RashaanRashaan Salaam Colorado Running Back 1,743
1995 George, EddieEddie George Ohio State Running Back 1,460
1996 Wuerffel, DannyDanny Wuerffel Florida Quarterback 1,363
1997 Woodson, CharlesCharles Woodson Michigan Cornerback 1,815
1998 Williams, RickyRicky Williams Texas Running Back 2,355
1999 Dayne, RonRon Dayne Wisconsin Running Back 2,042
2000 Weinke, ChrisChris Weinke Florida State Quarterback 1,628
2001 Crouch, EricEric Crouch Nebraska Quarterback 770
2002 Palmer, CarsonCarson Palmer* USC Quarterback 1,328
2003 White, JasonJason White Oklahoma Quarterback 1,481
2004 Leinart, MattMatt Leinart USC Quarterback 1,325
2005 Bush, ReggieReggie Bush USC Running Back 2,541
2006 Smith, TroyTroy Smith Ohio State Quarterback 2,540
2007 Tebow, TimTim Tebow Florida Quarterback 1,957
2008 Bradford, SamSam Bradford Oklahoma Quarterback 1,726


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DeltaBoy

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #79 on: December 09, 2009, 11:07:20 am »

It has been a joke every since they openly campaigned for Tebow when he was a sophomore.
Darrin McFadden was head and shoulders the best player in the country that year. If anything Felix Jones should have been runner up.

ESPN was piping all the BS about the best player on the best team crap. Hey I always felt the Heisman should always go to the "best player" period. The trophy is now degraded and tarnished
beyond being a true reflection of best football player in the country. It now has less meaning.

It has been screwed up for years. I stopped caring after they shafted Darren McFadden several years ago.
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levelheaded

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2009, 11:13:57 am »

Actually started when ESPN promoted Charles Woodson over Peyton Manning.
ESPN has determined the winner each year since then.
Is this thread not a joke? Respect yourselves enough to not buy into conspiracy theories and outrageous bias claims. ESPN is not pushing Tebow at all if you would look at their Heisman breakdown
http://espn.go.com/college-football/heisman09/index
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EastexHawg

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #81 on: December 09, 2009, 11:26:51 am »

DMac was not clearly the best player in college football either year.  He was an outstanding player, and he was a Hog, but to claim that he was head and shoulders above everyone is just ridiculously biased.

Troy Smith passed for something like 30 TDs, with almost no interceptions, and led the nation in pass efficiency for a team that was undefeated and ranked #1 when the voting took place.  He had a spectacular performance against #2 Michigan in the biggest game of the year just before the Heisman voting took place. 

And Tebow in 2007?  How in the world can you claim that a guy who produced over 50 TOUCHDOWNS in a season was overrated, or that his selection as Heisman winner was a farce?
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levelheaded

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #82 on: December 09, 2009, 11:29:01 am »

DMac was not clearly the best player in college football either year.  He was an outstanding player, and he was a Hog, but to claim that he was head and shoulders above everyone is just ridiculously biased.

Troy Smith passed for something like 30 TDs, with almost no interceptions, and led the nation in pass efficiency for a team that was undefeated and ranked #1 when the voting took place.  He had a spectacular performance against #2 Michigan in the biggest game of the year just before the Heisman voting took place. 

And Tebow in 2007?  How in the world can you claim that a guy who produced over 50 TOUCHDOWNS in a season was overrated, or that his selection as Heisman winner was a farce?
Great and resonable post. If you disagree with this post, that that really says you should ask yourself some tough questions about how much you should be posting.
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Teebow62

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #83 on: December 09, 2009, 11:35:19 am »

Can't give it to a player on a mediocre team in a mediocre conference like Gerhart. I'd say Ingram or McCoy.
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Robert Shields

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #84 on: December 09, 2009, 11:38:41 am »

Tebow may still win
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CambridgeHog

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #85 on: December 09, 2009, 11:42:48 am »

If you're looking to see who people are voting for...

http://stiffarmtrophy.com/
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ErieHog

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #86 on: December 09, 2009, 11:45:02 am »

Here is the list from 70-90 then 91-2009.  Far more NFl success out of the first group.  I know it is simplistic, but one would think THE BEST PLAYER in college football could at leasr have an avg NFL career.

Year   Winner   School   Position   Points   
1970 Plunkett, JimJim Plunkett* Stanford Quarterback 2,229
1971 Sullivan, PatPat Sullivan Auburn Quarterback 1,597
1972 Rodgers, JohnnyJohnny Rodgers Nebraska Running back 1,310
1973 Cappelletti, JohnJohn Cappelletti Penn State Running Back 1,057
1974 Griffin, ArchieArchie Griffin Ohio State Running Back 1,920
1975 Griffin, ArchieArchie Griffin Ohio State Running Back 1,800
1976 Dorsett, TonyTony Dorsett^ Pittsburgh Running Back 2,357
1977 Campbell, EarlEarl Campbell*^ Texas Running Back 1,547
1978 Sims, BillyBilly Sims* Oklahoma Running Back 827
1979 White, CharlesCharles White USC Running Back 1,695
1980 Rogers, GeorgeGeorge Rogers* South Carolina Running Back 1,128
1981 Allen, MarcusMarcus Allen^ USC Running Back 1,797
1982 Walker, HerschelHerschel Walker Georgia Running Back 1,926
1983 Rozier, MikeMike Rozier Nebraska Running Back 1,801
1984 Flutie, DougDoug Flutie Boston College Quarterback 2,240
1985 Jackson, BoBo Jackson* Auburn Running Back 1,509
1986 Testaverde, VinnyVinny Testaverde* Miami Quarterback 2,213
1987 Brown, TimTim Brown Notre Dame Wide Receiver 1,442
1988 Sanders, BarryBarry Sanders^ Oklahoma State Running Back 1,878
1989 Ware, AndreAndre Ware Houston Quarterback 1,073
1990 Detmer, TyTy Detmer BYU Quarterback 1,482


1991 Howard, DesmondDesmond Howard Michigan Wide Receiver 2,077
1992 Torretta, GinoGino Torretta Miami Quarterback 1,400
1993 Ward, CharlieCharlie Ward Florida State Quarterback 1,743
1994 Salaam, RashaanRashaan Salaam Colorado Running Back 1,743
1995 George, EddieEddie George Ohio State Running Back 1,460
1996 Wuerffel, DannyDanny Wuerffel Florida Quarterback 1,363
1997 Woodson, CharlesCharles Woodson Michigan Cornerback 1,815
1998 Williams, RickyRicky Williams Texas Running Back 2,355
1999 Dayne, RonRon Dayne Wisconsin Running Back 2,042
2000 Weinke, ChrisChris Weinke Florida State Quarterback 1,628
2001 Crouch, EricEric Crouch Nebraska Quarterback 770
2002 Palmer, CarsonCarson Palmer* USC Quarterback 1,328
2003 White, JasonJason White Oklahoma Quarterback 1,481
2004 Leinart, MattMatt Leinart USC Quarterback 1,325
2005 Bush, ReggieReggie Bush USC Running Back 2,541
2006 Smith, TroyTroy Smith Ohio State Quarterback 2,540
2007 Tebow, TimTim Tebow Florida Quarterback 1,957
2008 Bradford, SamSam Bradford Oklahoma Quarterback 1,726




I'm not seeing the 'far more';  the only difference, really, is in the WRs & RBs;  Plunkett was an NFL journeyman-- and for every Plunkett or Testaverde style journeyman, you have a guy like Carson Palmer who has better numbers than one, and a reasonable shot at a very productive career.   The RBs are deeper--  Eddie George put up over 10K yards rushing, Ricky Williams will hit 10K next year.  It's hardly a bad group from the second lot, considering that you've still got active players.

Throw in that 2 of the 19 winners of the second era aren't even in the league yet, and there's very little differentiation-- especially when several of the later list aren't near the end of their NFL careers yet.


« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 11:53:02 am by ErieHog »
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hogsanity

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #87 on: December 09, 2009, 12:06:38 pm »

I'm not seeing the 'far more';  the only difference, really, is in the WRs & RBs;  Plunkett was an NFL journeyman-- and for every Plunkett or Testaverde style journeyman, you have a guy like Carson Palmer who has better numbers than one, and a reasonable shot at a very productive career.   The RBs are deeper--  Eddie George put up over 10K yards rushing, Ricky Williams will hit 10K next year.  It's hardly a bad group from the second lot, considering that you've still got active players.

Throw in that 2 of the 19 winners of the second era aren't even in the league yet, and there's very little differentiation-- especially when several of the later list aren't near the end of their NFL careers yet.




Ward, Crouch, and White, to my knowledge, never played a down in a regular season NFL game.  Troy Smith will never be more than a clipboard holder. 

Of course, the 2nd set would be much better if it had PEYTON MANNING on it, but he truly did get ESPN'd. 
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ErieHog

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #88 on: December 09, 2009, 12:22:38 pm »

Ward, Crouch, and White, to my knowledge, never played a down in a regular season NFL game.  Troy Smith will never be more than a clipboard holder. 

Of course, the 2nd set would be much better if it had PEYTON MANNING on it, but he truly did get ESPN'd. 

I don't know;  it's not like Woodson isn't a Hall of Famer as a DB-- giving him something the other list doesn't have.

Carson Palmer could extremely easily eclipse any QB on the first list as well.

Ward chose not to play in the NFL;  Crouch never recovered from a severe leg injury, though he's tried very hard to break through in a number of different leagues;  White had a handful of snaps with the Titans.

It's too early to write off Smith;  he may be a career backup, but being behind Flacco isn't going to be a place that you'll find a lot of PT.   It'd be extremely easy for him to have a better career than Pat Sullivan (he's within about 500 yards passing, already has more TDs)-- and not unreasonable for him to turn into a Chad Pennington type for a few years.    Matt Leinart could easily duplicate Plunkett's career.

The running backs in the second group as a whole are pretty underrated; people forget that Eddie George ran for over 10K yards,  and Ricky Williams will hit 10K either late next year or early the season thereafter;  even Rashaan Salaam had as many 1,000 yard and 10 TD seasons as  Cappaletti, Rodgers, Griffin, and Rozier combined.

The NFL career of a guy like Bradford could easily make up for any differentiation between the two lists; whoever wins this year, and Tebow would also be able to put the newer list over the top, with solid NFL careers.
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hogsanity

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #89 on: December 09, 2009, 12:32:51 pm »

I don't know;  it's not like Woodson isn't a Hall of Famer as a DB-- giving him something the other list doesn't have.

Carson Palmer could extremely easily eclipse any QB on the first list as well.

Ward chose not to play in the NFL;  Crouch never recovered from a severe leg injury, though he's tried very hard to break through in a number of different leagues;  White had a handful of snaps with the Titans.

It's too early to write off Smith;  he may be a career backup, but being behind Flacco isn't going to be a place that you'll find a lot of PT.   It'd be extremely easy for him to have a better career than Pat Sullivan (he's within about 500 yards passing, already has more TDs)-- and not unreasonable for him to turn into a Chad Pennington type for a few years.    Matt Leinart could easily duplicate Plunkett's career.

The running backs in the second group as a whole are pretty underrated; people forget that Eddie George ran for over 10K yards,  and Ricky Williams will hit 10K either late next year or early the season thereafter;  even Rashaan Salaam had as many 1,000 yard and 10 TD seasons as  Cappaletti, Rodgers, Griffin, and Rozier combined.

The NFL career of a guy like Bradford could easily make up for any differentiation between the two lists; whoever wins this year, and Tebow would also be able to put the newer list over the top, with solid NFL careers.

My point is that it APPEARS in the years since ESPN gained so much influence, the Heisman has not gone to the best player in FB.  Take this year.  SUH has NO SHOT, yet imo, he is the best player.  SUH could proabably have gained 700 yards a a RB.  How many of the other guys could suit up and play DT?
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ErieHog

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #90 on: December 09, 2009, 12:35:27 pm »

My point is that it APPEARS in the years since ESPN gained so much influence, the Heisman has not gone to the best player in FB.  Take this year.  SUH has NO SHOT, yet imo, he is the best player.  SUH could proabably have gained 700 yards a a RB.  How many of the other guys could suit up and play DT?

There's a huge problem with the statement you make, though;  the best football player and the best college football player are -not- the same thing.    Well-rounded talent is much less important than suitability to scheme.
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hogsanity

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #91 on: December 09, 2009, 12:40:52 pm »

There's a huge problem with the statement you make, though;  the best football player and the best college football player are -not- the same thing.    Well-rounded talent is much less important than suitability to scheme.

The best player in college football should be able to play football, not just play one position.  My real problem, though, is with the voters.  Some have obviously gotten lazy and just rely on ESPN for their research. 
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ErieHog

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #92 on: December 09, 2009, 12:44:47 pm »

The best player in college football should be able to play football, not just play one position.  My real problem, though, is with the voters.  Some have obviously gotten lazy and just rely on ESPN for their research. 

I disagree; there are highly specialized talents that fit better in a single, specific environment than in any other, or in any other role within the same organization-- and that's not limited to football.

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hogsanity

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #93 on: December 09, 2009, 12:49:00 pm »

I disagree; there are highly specialized talents that fit better in a single, specific environment than in any other, or in any other role within the same organization-- and that's not limited to football.



Does that make them THE BEST PLAYER IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL?  I thought that was why they have position specific awards.
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311Hog

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #94 on: December 09, 2009, 12:52:57 pm »

The problem i see is that it is almost impossible for a defensive guy to win it.  It is more about stats and Victories then actual impact on a game.  And we all know that QB's get most if not all of the credit for a teams success weather they deserve it or not and why more often then not a QB is up for or wins the Trophy.

Purists like in this thread can see a Suh and see that he is has a very tangible effect on the game and is a rare talent and want to reward it but you simply cant give him the Heisman because he doesn't have gaudy stats and his team isnt in the NC game.

It isnt fair but thats all the Heisman trophy is now i dont know why they even bother giving out a Davey O Brien award or a Doak Walker award because the Heisman will almost always go to a RB or a QB.
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TrumannRazorback24

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #95 on: December 09, 2009, 01:00:00 pm »

Can't give it to a player on a mediocre team in a mediocre conference like Gerhart. I'd say Ingram or McCoy.
Why not?  If he's the best player in the country, then he deserves the Heisman no matter which conference he plays in, and Gerhart has put up quite a resume suggesting he is the best player in the country.
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pedrothelion

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #96 on: December 09, 2009, 01:38:30 pm »

The first player that I remember being really hyped for the Heisman by ESPN was Desmond Howard.  Then the next year when Gino Torretta it became absurd.  I'll never forget the pimping that Lee Corso did for Torretta.
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levelheaded

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #97 on: December 09, 2009, 02:04:43 pm »

The first player that I remember being really hyped for the Heisman by ESPN was Desmond Howard.  Then the next year when Gino Torretta it became absurd.  I'll never forget the pimping that Lee Corso did for Torretta.
All people that want to think that ESPN has a bias or conspiracy, keep posting and making yourself look terrible to people who enjoy using their minds and not just their arce.
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hogsanity

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #98 on: December 09, 2009, 02:12:02 pm »

All people that want to think that ESPN has a bias or conspiracy, keep posting and making yourself look terrible to people who enjoy using their minds and not just their arce.

I DO NOT think ESPN has it in for anyone, but I think they do definitly pick a player or 2 to hype.  The year Woodson won, they almost wet themsleves pointing out his 2 way playing. 

What I DO think is that Heisman voters have become lazy, and they use ESPn for their research.  I bet htere are Heisman voters who have never watched Gerhart play.
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levelheaded

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Re: Heisman trophy should be renamed the "ESPN" Trophy
« Reply #99 on: December 09, 2009, 02:15:05 pm »

I DO NOT think ESPN has it in for anyone, but I think they do definitly pick a player or 2 to hype.  The year Woodson won, they almost wet themsleves pointing out his 2 way playing. 

What I DO think is that Heisman voters have become lazy, and they use ESPn for their research.  I bet htere are Heisman voters who have never watched Gerhart play.
Really?......Really? You think they have meetings and say "OK, who do we want to hype to help our ratings, who do we like that we would enjoy hyping?"
Woodson was incredible, and sorry that he was not from the SEC.
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