Fixing the Secondary for 2016

[hawg66]

A better pass defense this year would almost sertainly have meant at least a couple more wins.  For 2016, there will be lots of experience coming back,  and there's a bunch of young guys who have played back there, so you have to think they'll be better next year.  How much better is the question. 

I was excited about the way Kevin Richardson played against MSU.  He looks promising.  And Tolliver has shown flashes.  Collins is good enough at one corner, I think.  Coaches have also touted Ryan Pulley as a talent.  The lack of a consistent pass rush hasn't helped, and the LB's aren't great in pass coverage, so the secondary maybe gets a little too much of the blame. But I'm wondering if maybe they shouldn't give DJ Dean a look at safety.  He's a solid tackler, and while he may be a step slow at corner, he'd be plenty fast as a safety.  Seems like moves like that have worked before.  There looks like enough depth at corner.

With Ageem coming and Jamario Bell redshirting this year, much of the pass rush issues may be fixed next year.  And the D-line returns everyone but Hodge, I think.  I'm also wondering if maybe Brooks Ellis should shed a few pounds.  We all get caught up in wanting a big MLB, but I think Ellis has lost a step this year. 

Anyone else got any thoughts?  Eventually, we'll need to recruit our way out of some of the issues, but I'm not thinking that'll happen by next season.  With potential wholescale losses to the offense, the D may have to carry us in 2016. 

[Pig In The City]

We are desperate at LB and safety.

[HogWall Jackson]

We are desperate at LB and safety.

We need 2 of each for depth and to play with.

[jackflash]

With what we got committed I can still see us taking another safety with speed and two CB and one more LB.

[onebadrubi]

With what we got committed I can still see us taking another safety with speed and two CB and one more LB.

I don't think the numbers work out for 4 more at those positions, but maybe they will. 

[WaltonCollege]

I haven't slept all week thinking about how awful our secondary is. one post said we are 124 out 128 in pass defense. We need an upgrade at both safety spots, a true nickel corner (toliver is getting eaten up this yr) and some speedy, rangy backers to cover sideline to sideline. I also think clay Jennings needs to be looked at. there is no way 123 teams have better athletes in their secondary than we do. I could grab some players from NWACC and not be 124 out of 128 (a joke)

[ErieHog]

There is no substitute for experience, work, and maturity.

Those things only come with time, not with new talent.   Talent gets lost, until it knows scheme, and how to play with others, particularly in the back half of a defense.

[Lake City Hog]

We may well have some options already on our roster. We have 16 returning DB's although a few are walkons. But, we also have 2 or 3 kids listed as WR that could maybe make an impact in our secondary. Two are redshirting this year so we would have 4 years to get them where they need to be and it's not like they have never played the position before.
Next years roster:

20   De'Andre Coley   DB   So   6-1   202   
29   Jared Collins   DB   Jr   5-11   172   
8   Nate Dalton   DB   Fr   6-3   197   
2   DJ Dean           DB   Jr   5-11   202   
25   Matt Dodson   DB   So   5-10   202   
16   Cornelius Floyd   DB   So   5-11   172   
39   Byron Keaton   DB   Fr   5-10   174   
28   Josh Liddell   DB   So   6-1   210   
24   Ryder Lucas   DB   R-Fr   6-0   189   
38   Reid Miller   DB   Fr   5-9   193   
10   Ryan Pulley   DB   Fr   5-11   210   
9   Santos Ramirez   DB   R-Fr   6-2   202   
30   Kevin Richardson II   DB   So   6-0   
15   Willie Sykes   DB   Fr   6-0   180   
31   Scotty Thurman   DB   Jr   5-11   210   
5   Henre' Toliver   DB   So   6-1   186   

2015 Commitments:
Deon Edwards    DB                      6'1", 190

Possibles??
13   Deon Stewart   WR   Fr   5-11   165     42 tackles, three interceptions and forced a fumble on defense
7   Damon Mitchell   WR   So   6-2   207     43 tackles, three interceptions and 12 pass breakups on defense
16   La'Michael Pettway   WR   Fr   6-2   205  45 tackles and eight interceptions 

[hawg66]

There is no substitute for experience, work, and maturity.

Those things only come with time, not with new talent.   Talent gets lost, until it knows scheme, and how to play with others, particularly in the back half of a defense.

That's my thinking.  Of course receruiting is the long term answer, but it's really unlikely that anyone we recruit this year will be a major impact on 2016.  Reshuffling some guys may be the best answer.  I remember Rudell Crim.  He was recruited as a corner.  He wasn't the answer there, but he was a pretty good safety in 2010.  DJ Dean is a baller, and he's got the build for safety.  He just seems a step slow when left one-on-one with a speedy receiver. 

I'm not sure the answers for LB depth and better pass defense from that group are on the roster right now.  Some freshmen will likely have a shot.  Josh Williams coming back should help, and Greenlaw is legit.  Ellis is great against the run, but has struggled this year in pass D.  I'm not sure 240 is his best weight.  You'd sure think we could sell some stud JUCO LB on playing time.

[Lake City Hog]

51   Brooks Ellis   LB   Jr   6-2   242
35   Dwayne Eugene   LB   So   6-1   235
18   Derrick Graham   LB   Fr   6-4   247   
23   Dre Greenlaw   LB   Fr   6-0   222   
27   Khalia Hackett   LB   So   6-2   230
45   Josh Harris   LB   R-Fr   5-10   220
34   Tyler Phillips   LB   Fr   6-1   222
47   Matt Reynolds   LB   So   6-1   215
96   Karl Roesler   DL/LB   So   6-1   255
57   Nicholas Thomas-Smith   LB   Jr   5-10   225
21   Josh Williams   LB   Jr   6-1   237

Commitments
Alexy Jean-Baptiste   LB          6-3    205
Jordan Carmouche     LB          6-1    220

[scruf]

There's no way that Ryan Pulley stays at corner. He's either going to play S or back up the WLB.

[yraciv]

That's my thinking.  Of course receruiting is the long term answer, but it's really unlikely that anyone we recruit this year will be a major impact on 2016.  Reshuffling some guys may be the best answer.  I remember Rudell Crim.  He was recruited as a corner.  He wasn't the answer there, but he was a pretty good safety in 2010.  DJ Dean is a baller, and he's got the build for safety.  He just seems a step slow when left one-on-one with a speedy receiver. 

I'm not sure the answers for LB depth and better pass defense from that group are on the roster right now.  Some freshmen will likely have a shot.  Josh Williams coming back should help, and Greenlaw is legit.  Ellis is great against the run, but has struggled this year in pass D.  I'm not sure 240 is his best weight.  You'd sure think we could sell some stud JUCO LB on playing time.

We're recruiting at least 1 that would probably have a major impact.
http://247sports.com/Player/Kristian-Fulton-32405

[Medic821]

DJ has missed a ton of one one one tackles this year.

[Bacon_Bitz]

DJ has missed a ton of one one one tackles this year.

I think his turf toe has slowed him more than most realize

[presidenthog]

I haven't slept all week thinking about how awful our secondary is. one post said we are 124 out 128 in pass defense. We need an upgrade at both safety spots, a true nickel corner (toliver is getting eaten up this yr) and some speedy, rangy backers to cover sideline to sideline. I also think clay Jennings needs to be looked at. there is no way 123 teams have better athletes in their secondary than we do. I could grab some players from NWACC and not be 124 out of 128 (a joke)

clay Jennings has a very good reputation as a good secondary coach. dean has been battling turf toe all year and it's shown. we have to get a more athletic MLB who is good enough to play especially on 3rd down. brooks is a liability in passing situations. if we had more depth he would play on 1st and 2nd down and come out on 3rd. when dean has to come out because of the turf toe they pick on pulley. when you are this bad it is a combination of things not just 1 thing.

[LAHOG1962]

No doubt our problems are a combination of many things. Most of those problems will be solved next year with more depth in the back 7 and our puppies up front becoming dogs. It all starts with a great pass rush.

[FANONTHEHILL]

Pass  rush and making quarterbacks uncomfortable is as big a problem as anything. The scheme is the same as last year, the difference is no Flowers and Philon.

[Lake City Hog]

No, the scheme is not the same as last year! The difference is that last year our DB's didn't line up 5 to 9 yards away from the receivers. Last year we ran stunts and twists with our D'Line, our DB's played more aggressively at the LOS and we changed our look along the D'Line a lot. We sometimes dropped a D'Lineman back into coverage and rushed only 3 guys, we even rushed only 2 guys a couple of times.

This year we are playing a straight 4-3 or a 4-2 with a nickel. We are giving a huge cushion to the receivers and playing the "bend-don't-break" defense. AND, it has KILLED us!

[jdelo77]

We have three LB and a safety committed , we need more talent in the secondary !!! Two or three more corners and a safety ...

[FANONTHEHILL]

It's the same cover 6 defense that we ran last year.  Any stunts or twists are a result of Darius and Trey being gone. Cover 6 requires that the front 4 disrupt the quarterback. We have not done that this year. A crossing route holds the Mike and he cannot drop into the middle third deep, making a hole.  It's not the pass 40 yards deep that kills us, it's the cross into the lateral spaces where the corners have been ran off and then 10-15 yard pass up the middle after the Mike is held up, before either safety can help. We did the exact same thing last year, but the there was not time for these plays to develop. We play off, because we don't play man, that's Coach Smith's philosophy, bend by don't break.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

There is no substitute for experience, work, and maturity.

Those things only come with time, not with new talent.   Talent gets lost, until it knows scheme, and how to play with others, particularly in the back half of a defense.

There's no substitute for experience, work and maturity of truly SEC talented players. 

[Cinco de Hogo]

I think his turf toe has slowed him more than most realize

His biggest problem is tackling form, I don't know how many times I've seen him shoulder bump a recievers.  He is there he is just not "tackling".

[ErieHog]

There's no substitute for experience, work and maturity of truly SEC talented players. 

Talent isn't in short supply.   We're better at playing the ball, and faster than ever before-- but its not much good, when it is  behind in recognition and cooperation.

Time is the only cure.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Talent isn't in short supply.   We're better at playing the ball, and faster than ever before-- but its not much good, when it is  behind in recognition and cooperation.

Time is the only cure.

Seems everyone has a different take, one thing is for sure we have enough bodies going forward.  These are the players recruited by this staff they either have it in r they don't and it should show next year.

[Aporkalypse Now]

There is no substitute for experience, work, and maturity.

Those things only come with time, not with new talent.   Talent gets lost, until it knows scheme, and how to play with others, particularly in the back half of a defense.

I disagree with that, somewhat.

I played upper level college football, I was a safety. I started as a Freshman, I was lost out there until about game 5. But that was 20 + years ago, today's high school seniors are so much more prepared to start as Freshman than they were then. I mean we have high schools running sophisticated spread offenses and multiple look cover 2 defenses trying to stop them.

You look at kid's like Agim and Rudy and they are ready to play. Might be preferable to redshirt them, but they absolutely could play and compete on day one.

I'd like to see Jordan Jones at defensive back myself. He's 6'1 175 I've heard he has pretty good wheels. But I've watched highlights of him, I don't think he has the frame to put on enough weight to be a durable wide receiver, nor the hands.  And we've got several wide receivers. I hope it's something the coaches suggest and he's open to. I think he could be the nickle back we need from day one if he worked hard in the off season.

[Aporkalypse Now]

Talent isn't in short supply.   We're better at playing the ball, and faster than ever before-- but its not much good, when it is  behind in recognition and cooperation.

Time is the only cure.

You should amend that to read STARTING talent isn't in short supply. We don't have enough talent on the bench.