The Kick...

[HogShat]

First off, I am no kicker. And I am not bashing ours. I backed up the DVR and watched it in slow motion as to see who missed the block. I noticed something kind of odd. I thought that the kicker usually began moving forward at the snap so that he was already in motion when the ball was set by the holder. On the blocked kick Saturday, our kicker was still firmly in his stance until the ball was caught by the holder and placed on the turf, then he began to execute his kick. Is that normal? Any former kickers on here that can shed some light on it? It just seemed to me that if he had been moving towards the ball a little quicker it may have gotten up and out before the defender got there. But like the old saying goes, "Were if's and but's candy and nuts it would be Christmas every day!"

[DiamondHogFan]

Not a big enough difference that a guy should be 3 yards into the backfield by the time the kick is away.  Kicking is all about timing, but on that play it didn't matter how fast his foot was to the ball IMO. 

Our FG team just got lazy.  Extra point after extra point after extra point where the defense probably gives a 50% effort...then a game winning kick defense goes 110% and our line wasn't ready.

[RzRbAcK18]

That is what I was taught in High School as well, however, like mentioned above it wouldn't have made a difference. The kid totally wiffed on the block.

[pignparadise]

First off, I am no kicker. And I am not bashing ours. I backed up the DVR and watched it in slow motion as to see who missed the block. I noticed something kind of odd. I thought that the kicker usually began moving forward at the snap so that he was already in motion when the ball was set by the holder. On the blocked kick Saturday, our kicker was still firmly in his stance until the ball was caught by the holder and placed on the turf, then he began to execute his kick. Is that normal? Any former kickers on here that can shed some light on it? It just seemed to me that if he had been moving towards the ball a little quicker it may have gotten up and out before the defender got there. But like the old saying goes, "Were if's and but's candy and nuts it would be Christmas every day!"
[/quote I am a former kicker and yes you should be moving before the ball is placed. However in this case it wouldn't have made any difference.

[TeufelHog]

Primarily because I didn't realize it was Lowen's special teams position, but I didn't realize Voelzke (#46) was in for the injured Lowen on the play. 

[Mike Irwin]

Not a big enough difference that a guy should be 3 yards into the backfield by the time the kick is away.  Kicking is all about timing, but on that play it didn't matter how fast his foot was to the ball IMO. 

Our FG team just got lazy.  Extra point after extra point after extra point where the defense probably gives a 50% effort...then a game winning kick defense goes 110% and our line wasn't ready.

"Our Line?" One guy missed a block. How does that make the entire "field goal team" lazy? You don't even know that Voelzke got lazy.
Not unless you could read his mind.

[DiamondHogFan]

"Our Line?" One guy missed a block. How does that make the entire "field goal team" lazy? You don't even know that Voelzke got lazy.
Not unless you could read his mind.

Sorry to upset you Mike. 

[DiamondHogFan]

"Our Line?" One guy missed a block. How does that make the entire "field goal team" lazy? You don't even know that Voelzke got lazy.
Not unless you could read his mind.

Why would a guy miss a block on a FG?  It's inside gap protect, just step and hold your ground.  Were they just that much stronger/better than us that we can't get in front of a guy for 3 seconds?

[Oklahawg]

Several factors that can contribute:

1. the snapper can get jitters knowing he is going to be blasted into next month (this is the final "big play" for MSU on defense)
2. the holder has the extra curse of "no oops" (and we've had moments where the laces were placed wrong, and the catch bobbled)
3. the kicker knows he doesn't have to blast it, just get it up and over...ala extra points when they routinely wait a moment also

Let's add that MSU has nothing to fear - go for the block and worry about a penalty later. And, the kicker isn't exactly brimming with confidence given the lack of opportunities over the weeks. Plus, you juggle the bodies.

And, UA routinely starts great on FG/PAT work on both sides of the ball. The effort fades as the season goes along (both sides of the ball). Or it doesn't fade, and that is my impression that is wrongly guided by reading too many hysterical fans who know little of special teams play. If there is a fade, and there is something to the commonly held hysteria that we were not well-prepped for the kick: we don't employ a full collection of starters on the line...how keyed in are they to the game? Cold? Sitting under a parka by the heater waiting on extra points?

Cordale Boyd and Voelzke are two that I know are on that unit who play sparingly otherwise. Is that a factor at this point in the year? Would you be better off with the starting OL + TE? Well, they are largely there anyway. Boyd and Voelzke are add-ons replacing a WR or RB.

Lots going on here.

Might be worth asking - is there enough to see on tape: would the kick have been high enough to clear the MSU players jumping from behind the LOS? Was it online? Probably unknowable.

[theFlyingHog]

Why would a guy miss a block on a FG?  It's inside gap protect, just step and hold your ground.  Were they just that much stronger/better than us that we can't get in front of a guy for 3 seconds?

How many field goals have you blocked for?

[jgphillips3]

The blame for this one lies on Bielema.  Brandon Allen was playing out of his freaking mind and could not be stopped but we took the game out of his hands to play it safe.  Go for the jugular.  Playing it safe is like prevent defense...only prevents winning.  Hopefully Bielema will learn from it and let his kids go win the game next time.

[theFlyingHog]

The blame for this one lies on Bielema.  Brandon Allen was playing out of his freaking mind and could not be stopped but we took the game out of his hands to play it safe.  Go for the jugular.  Playing it safe is like prevent defense...only prevents winning.  Hopefully Bielema will learn from it and let his kids go win the game next time.

Exactly.

We make it and we are up 2 and they have quite a bit of time to get into FG range. A TD and we go for 2 and I like our chances a lot more

[DiamondHogFan]

How many field goals have you blocked for?

Why do you think he missed the block?

[ricepig]

Exactly.

We make it and we are up 2 and they have quite a bit of time to get into FG range. A TD and we go for 2 and I like our chances a lot more

Yeah, :39 and no timeouts is an eternity.

[theFlyingHog]

Why do you think he missed the block?

Because he didn't know he was responsible for that guy.

[theFlyingHog]

Yeah, :39 and no timeouts is an eternity.

Against our defense it dang sure is

[ricepig]

Against our defense it dang sure is

So, 1:15 to score a TD would have been a walk in the park too, then?

[longpig]

There was somewhere in the neighborhood of an extra 250 yards and 30 points given up by our defense in that game.  Let the one missed kick go.

[DiamondHogFan]

Because he didn't know he was responsible for that guy.

The guy right in front of his face...that ran directly in front of him?  Who did he think he was responsible for?

Please go watch the play again and tell me you really believe that...

[woodrow hog call]

So, 1:15 to score a TD would have been a walk in the park too, then?

With a couple of timeouts, it would have been a higher % than a FG with 39 seconds and no timeouts.

[Boog41]

Here is a link on ESPN. You have to wait through a commercial and it is at the 1:01 mark. Hard to tell it it would have been good, or if it was kicked low because the guy got so close.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=400603922

[redeye]

The blame for this one lies on Bielema.  Brandon Allen was playing out of his freaking mind and could not be stopped but we took the game out of his hands to play it safe.  Go for the jugular.  Playing it safe is like prevent defense...only prevents winning.  Hopefully Bielema will learn from it and let his kids go win the game next time.

It was a good call.  We had MSU beat and dropped the ball, but there was nothing wrong with Bielema's decision.

If we had tried to score a TD and fumbled the ball, then everyone would be asking why we didn't just kick a FG.  That would be much worse, because a FG at that range is almost a given, so defending the choice to not kick it would be very tough.

[woodrow hog call]

I made a sarcastic post in the LSU game thread after we scored on the reverse; basically said stupid call, trick play or something to that effect.

My point was if we had of lost yards on the play or had a turnover caused by a great defensive play, that's what half of the posters on here would have been saying, "what a dumb call I knew that wouldn't work", "why would you call a gimmick call like that in that spot on the field?"

It's always a bad idea when it dosen't work and everybody always knew what would happen before we ran it.

[Knot2brite]

The blocker took a step forward rather than a step down to the inside. Blocker was lined head up so the guy just took a wrong step. It happens every year and all the time...it isn't a easy job. I have been teaching it to jr high and SR high guys for 17 years and it is mind blowing how many times they forget in the middle of a important situation. He thought the defensive guy was just going to bull rush him( common practice in field goal block) and he stepped forward to meet him and the guy got inside gap on him. Sucks for the kid but one has to remember their technique and block head up to inside

[SemperHawg]

Even if he had made the kick, I am not sure 43 seconds would have been enough time to keep them from getting back into FG range on the other side.

[Hoggish1]

No effect that close.  It might make a difference beyond 40 yards.

[scorekeeper]

I thought the decision to kick the field goal was good based on the flow of the game.
1. We needed to milk the clock.
2. Milking the clock forced them to burn timeouts.

I wish we were more aggressive with our 3 downs to play with all run plays, which I agreed with but straight up the middle was not good.

The reason why I didn't like the decision is because I get heartburn every time we try to kick a field goal.

[WellOKthen]

Former kicker

I did not see clearly but read somewhere that the holder had the laces toward the kicker again against MSU - this is the kiss of death for a kicker.  I know that he did so against Ole Miss at end of regulation.  Kicking into the laces does two things neither of which are good 1.does not allow the ball to compress as much (much like a golf ball in cold weather) and when laces are facing toward the goal it provides some resistance for the compression and allows the ball to leave quicker and at higher angle.

IF was done the second time - it is time to change holders. 

It is a crap shoot with kickers anyway.  You can make a hundred kicks in a row at practice and not know if you can do it under pressure until the opportunity arrives.
Like making a 5 foot putt to win the Masters.   Don't know until you do it.    The kickers that can handle the pressure handle it with ease - the ones that can't feel it at the most opportune times. And it doesn't take much to be off to miss even a 35 yd FG.    Lot of college coaches try to create false pressure at practice by having a FG at end of practice - make practice over, miss everyone has to run wind sprints.  Sure the UA coaching staff does something similar.

All in ALL  WPS!! :razorback:

[Mike Irwin]

The blocker took a step forward rather than a step down to the inside. Blocker was lined head up so the guy just took a wrong step. It happens every year and all the time...it isn't a easy job. I have been teaching it to jr high and SR high guys for 17 years and it is mind blowing how many times they forget in the middle of a important situation. He thought the defensive guy was just going to bull rush him( common practice in field goal block) and he stepped forward to meet him and the guy got inside gap on him. Sucks for the kid but one has to remember their technique and block head up to inside

Bingo. A much better assessment than "our FG team just got lazy." There are informative posts on this board and there's throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks.

No DiamondHogFan I'm not upset, just somewhat mystified that you think you can mind read players.

[Iwastherein1969]

Yeah, :39 and no timeouts is an eternity.

uh, those numbers are not quite correct....there would have been around 50 seconds....plenty of time for our porous defense to allow Dak Prescott to get Moo St into FG range....in college, and I know you likely are aware of this, the clock stops after every first down until the chains move...I'd say the odds, the way Moo St was moving the football at will would be on the side of the Bulldogs at the very least getting into position of making a game winning FG, that was not needed anyway

[ricepig]

uh, those numbers are not quite correct....there would have been around 50 seconds....plenty of time for our porous defense to allow Dak Prescott to get Moo St into FG range....in college, and I know you likely are aware of this, the clock stops after every first down until the chains move...I'd say the odds, the way Moo St was moving the football at will would be on the side of the Bulldogs at the very least getting into position of making a game winning FG, that was not needed anyway

Play by play chart say :39 after the block, plus had we scored there would have been time run off on the kickoff since we wouldn't have put it in the end zone.

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/stats/football/2015/ar112115.htm#GAME.SCO

[JenksHawg]

The blame for this one lies on Bielema.  Brandon Allen was playing out of his freaking mind and could not be stopped but we took the game out of his hands to play it safe.  Go for the jugular.  Playing it safe is like prevent defense...only prevents winning.  Hopefully Bielema will learn from it and let his kids go win the game next time.

Or, if the ball's not under thrown on the big completion to Reed, game's over right? Agree BA had an incredible game, but hitting Reed in stride finishes it off, IMO.

[hogcam]

Or, if the ball's not under thrown on the big completion to Reed, game's over right? Agree BA had an incredible game, but hitting Reed in stride finishes it off, IMO.

Under thrown to Reed? Do you understand the game of football? To even talk about that throw is just trolling.. That is the dumbest statement ever. That was a great throw. Some people just love to hate on BA and it's just plain dumb.

[ricepig]

Under thrown to Reed? Do you understand the game of football? To even talk about that throw is just trolling.. That is the dumbest statement ever. That was a great throw. Some people just love to hate on BA and it's just plain dumb.

I think he was being facetious, we scored on that drive.

[DiamondHogFan]

Bingo. A much better assessment than "our FG team just got lazy." There are informative posts on this board and there's throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks.

No DiamondHogFan I'm not upset, just somewhat mystified that you think you can mind read players.

On a majority of the extra points, Voelzke had to do nothing.  They guy lined up over him hardly moved.  I just don't think he was ready to block the guy.  By the time he crossed his face, it was too late. 

Mind reading, observation, opinion...whatever you want to call it.  He didn't put himself in the position he was supposed to be in to make the block.  Whether that be due to lack of experience (doubtful), talent differential between blocker and rusher (doubtful), lack of execution because he wasn't where he needed to be due to physical or mental laziness (probable).  Sometimes laziness doesn't equate to lack of physical effort.  Maybe i should have emphasized "mental" laziness by instead of doing what I'm sure he had been taught, he got caught out of position/not completely focused on his job.

[Mike Irwin]

I think Knot2brite nailed it. It's the best explanation I've heard based on what I see when I look at that play.

[BigSexyHog]

Guess the Michigan State coach is a dumbass for kicking a FG to beat OSU Saturday afternoon to.  Good to know we have so many great and awesome coaches sitting at home.  Hope you all got your resume up to date.  Va Tech, The Cocks, USC, and Miami are all looking for coaches.  You guys should be able to get some good money knowing what you know.  Good luck with the coaching search and send me a tshirt when you get hired.

[BadHog]

The blame for this one lies on Bielema.  Brandon Allen was playing out of his freaking mind and could not be stopped but we took the game out of his hands to play it safe.  Go for the jugular.  Playing it safe is like prevent defense...only prevents winning.  Hopefully Bielema will learn from it and let his kids go win the game next time.

I had hoped we would go for the TD also. BA and company has showed they can score under pressure. Kicking - not so much. Also, it would have been a tad harder for MSU to roll down the field and score a TD with the amount of time left but a FG could have been accomplished. Got to put the pressure back on the opponent. But hind sight is was it is. Really proud of the way the offense delivered.

[Boog41]

Like most everyone else, I have moved on to this weeks game. I wanted to have one last comment on the blocked field goal.

I was just now able to see the replay again on the SEC network. They had the good south end zone view. I was able to record the kick and go through it frame by frame.

Hedlund hasn't missed an extra point all year and is 7/9 inside 40 yards. That's pretty good. He did not start late to the kick, the laces were not facing him. Despite how close the dude was that blocked the ball, he still got it at the top of his jump. The kick was in now way low. A missed block is all that happened.