Cold, Hard Facts About Our Defense

[bigdaddyhawg]

Coach Robb Smith is NOT the problem.  Deal with it.  The guy is a great DC.  He proved that last year.

The problem is he has some serious athletic deficiencies he is trying his best to work around.  They are:

1.  Serious limitations at LB.  We simply don't have the athletic talent (read SPEED) at LB to contain these spread teams that can also run the ball.  We have a young promising player in Dre Greenlaw who can fit the bill, but there's no one to play behind even Dre.  This deficiency was well-documented in the spring and again in fall camp.  Our LB's are solid against the run, but simply don't have the speed to cover the areas we need them to cover.

2.  We have no explosive, dynamic pass rushers.  Plain and simple.  Beanum and Wise, Jr. are solid, but simply aren't the explosive players we need them to be.  IMO our DL is very good against the run, but very poor rushing the passer.  Outside of LSU this has been obvious.  And, as everyone should understand, this creates serious problems in coverage as well.

3.  The play of our Safeties has been spotty, to poor, to horrendous.  Rohan has not produced nearly as we needed him to, and the others have not stepped up into any consistent performance.  Liddell and Santos are young.  Gaines does not have that excuse.  It's impossible to field a really good defense against the pass with the holes our Safeties are allowing.

4.  I believe our corners are very solid cover guys, but IMO they are not strong, physical corners, and, honestly, play very soft at times (soft as in not physical, not soft as in coverage).  They do much better against the quicker WR's, but due to their size and lack of physicality they are dominated by the more physical receivers, such as what MSU and OM put on the field.

5.  The bad news is all of these deficiencies add into one another in a very bad way right now in our pass defense.  Our weak pass rush allows QB's to have all the time their receivers need to find the gaps that will definitely be coming opening due to our limitations in LB speed and poor safety coverages/fits in coverages.

6.  This defense, while it has experience at certain positions, also lacks experience in other key position, i.e. safety, and that is a problem as well.

Sorry, but folks there is no quick fix for this list of problems.  Recruiting at LB especially, but across the board must improve if we're every going to be consistent on defense.

But, like it or not, Robb Smith is not the problem.  He's running around like the little Dutch boy, trying his best to plug the leaks as they spring up, only to have others open up out of his reach.

Last year he showed he could scheme a great defense even with a lack of overall talent, but he had one edge pass rusher, one inside pass rusher, one solid safety, and one fast LB who could cover a lot of ground in pass coverage.  CRS showed what he can do with just a small upgrade in talent at the right positions.

Let's hope this staff's recruiting can find us the men we need to fill those holes, and quickly.

[davispard]

Coach Robb Smith is NOT the problem.  Deal with it.  The guy is a great DC.  He proved that last year.

The problem is he has some serious athletic deficiencies he is trying his best to work around.  They are:

1.  Serious limitations at LB.  We simply don't have the athletic talent (read SPEED) at LB to contain these spread teams that can also run the ball.  We have a young promising player in Dre Greenlaw who can fit the bill, but there's no one to play behind even Dre.  This deficiency was well-documented in the spring and again in fall camp.  Our LB's are solid against the run, but simply don't have the speed to cover the areas we need them to cover.

2.  We have no explosive, dynamic pass rushers.  Plain and simple.  Beanum and Wise, Jr. are solid, but simply aren't the explosive players we need them to be.  IMO our DL is very good against the run, but very poor rushing the passer.  Outside of LSU this has been obvious.  And, as everyone should understand, this creates serious problems in coverage as well.

3.  The play of our Safeties has been spotty, to poor, to horrendous.  Rohan has not produced nearly as we needed him to, and the others have not stepped up into any consistent performance.  Liddell and Santos are young.  Gaines does not have that excuse.  It's impossible to field a really good defense against the pass with the holes our Safeties are allowing.

4.  I believe our corners are very solid cover guys, but IMO they are not strong, physical corners, and, honestly, play very soft at times (soft as in not physical, not soft as in coverage).  They do much better against the quicker WR's, but due to their size and lack of physicality they are dominated by the more physical receivers, such as what MSU and OM put on the field.

5.  The bad news is all of these deficiencies add into one another in a very bad way right now in our pass defense.  Our weak pass rush allows QB's to have all the time their receivers need to find the gaps that will definitely be coming opening due to our limitations in LB speed and poor safety coverages/fits in coverages.

6.  This defense, while it has experience at certain positions, also lacks experience in other key position, i.e. safety, and that is a problem as well.

Sorry, but folks there is no quick fix for this list of problems.  Recruiting at LB especially, but across the board must improve if we're every going to be consistent on defense.

But, like it or not, Robb Smith is not the problem.  He's running around like the little Dutch boy, trying his best to plug the leaks as they spring up, only to have others open up out of his reach.

Last year he showed he could scheme a great defense even with a lack of overall talent, but he had one edge pass rusher, one inside pass rusher, one solid safety, and one fast LB who could cover a lot of ground in pass coverage.  CRS showed what he can do with just a small upgrade in talent at the right positions.

Let's hope this staff's recruiting can find us the men we need to fill those holes, and quickly.

Think that sums it up quite nicely.  As someone(?) once said; "it is what it is!"...

[arkansasrazorback]

Passing yards per game against Arkansas is 123 out of 127 in the country.  That sums up all you need to know.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Passing yards per game against Arkansas is 123 out of 127 in the country.  That sums up all you need to know.

Not at all, actually.

You can't tell what you need to tell by reading a box score.  You just can't.  You have to watch the play on the field.

[ShadowTheHedgehog]

Coach Robb Smith is NOT the problem.  Deal with it.  The guy is a great DC.  He proved that last year.

Not disagreeing with you BigD but does one year really show he is a good DC? Posters here always say that Mullen is not a good coach and his success is all due to having Dak and Tebow. That Gus only had success due to Cam, etc. If that is true (and I think to some degree it is), then could you not make the same argument and say that Robb Smith looked good last year because he had 3 beasts in his D?

I don't disagree with the fact that our D needs more depth and talent, but would a defensive guru not come up with looks that would confuse the O instead of always lightning up and playing the same coverage(s). That makes us very predictable and easy to beat IMO. The opponents know that they will not beat us for long plays very often but they will get 9-12 passing the ball.

[jkstock04]

Passing yards per game against Arkansas is 123 out of 127 in the country.  That sums up all you need to know.

This is in fact a cold hard fact.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Not disagreeing with you BigD but does one year really show he is a good DC? Posters here always say that Mullen is not a good coach and his success is all due to having Dak and Tebow. That Gus only had success due to Cam, etc. If that is true (and I think to some degree it is), then could you not make the same argument and say that Robb Smith looked good last year because he had 3 beasts in his D?

I don't disagree with the fact that our D needs more depth and talent, but would a defensive guru not come up with looks that would confuse the O instead of always lightning up and playing the same coverage(s). That makes us very predictable and easy to beat IMO. The opponents know that they will not beat us for long plays very often but they will get 9-12 passing the ball.

Kirby Smart's competence as a DC can be questioned, IMO, because he has 22 BEASTS on his two deep.

CRS had three beasts and a solid safety and produced as well as KS did at Bama last year.

It's hard to produce a Top Ten defense as RS did last year with only 3 beasts.

[Lake City Hog]

Last night--
Wilson was rated a 5.5 (3*) #30 in the state of Alabama. Speed not listed by Rivals which usually means not real fast.
Ross was a 4* listed at 4.5/40, so again not a speed burner.

If our guys can't run with those 2 we are in really bad shape. I don't think a lack of speed is what is wrong with our secondary and I don't really believe that the scheme is that bad. I believe that the problem lies in our philosophy--- tackle them after the catch and don't give up the big play.

If you will think about 2014 you should remember that we gave up a ton of really big pass plays. But, you should also know that last year we had 60 PBU's(pass break-ups). This year we have less than 40 PBU's.

2014 season stats Defense       2015 season stats Defense
1490 yds Rushing                            1347 yds Rushing
2714 yds Passing                             3331 yds Passing
60 PBU(pass breakups)                        37 PBU
36 QB hurries                                      22 QB hurries                         
12 Int                                                 9 Int
24 Sacks                                             15 Sacks

I really think that what we are seeing this year is more a result of the game killing big plays that we gave up last year more than a lack of talent or speed. I think that Smith and/or BB decided that playing it safer was better than taking the risks and giving up the game killing big plays like we did last year.

I think that the 60 PBU's in 2014 had a profound effect on our sack total, receivers more closely guarded meant the the QB had to take more time and thus more susceptible to being sacked. Now any QB can take 3 steps back and fire the ball--- no time for the D to get there.

Last year Brooks had 5 PBU's and 2 int's, this year it is 3 and 1. Did he all of a sudden forget how to play LB? Not likely, just more of the "not take chances" mentality by our coaches.

My guess is that our main problem is our Safeties and their penchant for falling for the fakes and us getting burned deep so much. That and our abysmal tackling skills in the secondary put us in a really bad position. I think that the answer is more work on tackling(EVERY practice) and either better players or better coaching at that position.

[Bacon_Bitz]

This pretty much sums it up.  How does it get fixed?

Safeties? Liddell seemed to do better last year at strong safety and Gaines has regressed.  Hopefully Ramirez at Free and Liddell at Strong can make modest improvements next year.  Maybe a wild card like Sykes or Dalton makes a jump and produces.

CBs? I think Dean's turf toe is holding him back more than we realize (at least I hope so).  Richardson is making a move.  The rest of the secondary has had a rough go of it and I don't know what I'd do other than tell Kristian Fulton to come here and start from day one.

LB? No idea. Carmouche, Jean-Baptiste, and De'Jon Harris are not that highly rated but they're actually quite a bit higher rated than our LB recruits normally are, comparable to 2013 with Ellis/Tavarres/Spaight.  Maybe one or two of them and/or Derrick Graham can step up?

DL. Agim needs to make an immediate impact next year.  Jackson and Ledbetter need to make a jump.  Maybe Bell comes blazing off his redshirt year.

Unbelievable how far we've fallen on D this year.  Modest improvement next year with modest regression in the offense and we could still win 8 games though.

[bigdaddyhawg]

This pretty much sums it up.  How does it get fixed?

Safeties? Liddell seemed to do better last year at strong safety and Gaines has regressed.  Hopefully Ramirez at Free and Liddell at Strong can make modest improvements next year.  Maybe a wild card like Sykes or Dalton makes a jump and produces.

CBs? I think Dean's turf toe is holding him back more than we realize (at least I hope so).  Richardson is making a move.  The rest of the secondary has had a rough go of it and I don't know what I'd do other than tell Kristian Fulton to come here and start from day one.

LB? No idea. Carmouche, Jean-Baptiste, and De'Jon Harris are not that highly rated but they're actually quite a bit higher rated than our LB recruits normally are, comparable to 2013 with Ellis/Tavarres/Spaight.  Maybe one or two of them and/or Derrick Graham can step up?

DL. Agim needs to make an immediate impact next year.  Jackson and Ledbetter need to make a jump.  Maybe Bell comes blazing off his redshirt year.

Unbelievable how far we've fallen on D this year.  Modest improvement next year with modest regression in the offense and we could still win 8 games though.

Great questions, all.  I don't have any answers that's for sure.  I just know Robb Smith is a sharp DC who can scheme plenty well enough.  He's proved that.

It's all got to be fixed in recruiting, no question.  We will see how Bell or Graham may do next year after a RS year, as a pass rusher, and then we have Agim who could be good enough to make a difference.

But LB is the position that worries me most.  I love Greenlaw, but we've got to get some difference makers in that group and quick.  If we don't, we're never going to get better than we are now, IMO.

[Inhogswetrust]

This is in fact a cold hard fact.

It might be a statistical fact......BUT it doesn't show HOW that statistic was derived. Is it bad secondary, LB's, DE's, no discernible rush, lack of speed or talent, youth, philosophical style of play, etc. It also doesn't answer HOW to fix it for next year and beyond and since we aren't the coach we can only speculate. BUT there is one overriding factor in almost all of sports. Which ever team is the most talented has an advantage.

[jkstock04]

Good read.

[LA Football fan]

Safety is killing us.  They play so far off the receivers that by the time they try to react to a throw the receivers have caught the ball (with no one around them) and have the opportunity to make a move and just run past them or have them diving at their feet.  They wait way too late to make a move on a throw over the middle.  No anticipation at all.  Liddell has not shown me anything in the way of being able to tackle in open space period.  He is constantly missing tackles and most of them aren't even close to being made.  You have to have much better than that out of your starting safety.  Gaines comes flying in at least trying to make a hit but just lowers his shoulder and doesn't wrap up and most of the time the receiver just bounces off and keeps going.   Linebacker play on spread teams is basically non existent.   Our lbs are never even close to disrupting the throwing lanes.  I would rather we just pull Ellis and put in another db that at least has a chance to cover some space on d.  I really don't know if Robb knows how to defense 5 wide to be honest.   It isn't all talent.  I see many other teams with far less talent than us on defense do a much better job of slowing down or even stopping these 5 wide looks.  I would rather give up a couple over the top than watch what I did last night knowing that it didn't matter who Dak was throwing to, they were going to be wide open. 

[bigdaddyhawg]

It might be a statistical fact......BUT it doesn't show HOW that statistic was derived. Is it bad secondary, LB's, DE's, no discernible rush, lack of speed or talent, youth, philosophical style of play, etc. It also doesn't answer HOW to fix it for next year and beyond and since we aren't the coach we can only speculate. BUT there is one overriding factor in almost all of sports. Which ever team is the most talented has an advantage.

I think it's kind of like "death by a thousand cuts" kind of a deal.  A little gap by a slow LB here, with a poor, slow reaction by a S making that gap bigger, with the gap now growing as the QB has all day to throw, and the next thing you know the guy is open by 10 yards running free for a 40 gain.

But if you have a little more speed at LB, a little better fit by a S, with a little more pass rush pressure, then the play ends up as a much tougher pass that could be knocked down or intercepted.

Robb Smith has talked time and time again about "getting the fit in coverage", and I think that involves safeties that simply aren't thinking and reacting correctly to be where they need to be, which results in the gap being much larger than it should be.

[presidenthog]

you know I know the secondary has regressed but clay Jennings is a highly regarded secondary coach.  when you are this bad at something it is because of a combination of things. I think still the biggest difference this year is not having flowers and Philon to live in people's back field. I think the regression of this secondary comes from 2 things: 1 alan Turner was solid at safety and tevin Mitchell had quietly became a shut down nickle corner. 2 flowers and Philon were in our opponents back field the moment the ball was snapped so the secondary didn't have to cover as long so they would just line up and look up quick because the ball was coming out fast or it was a sack. also Spaight held down the middle of the field better than our current 2 but he didn't have to hold it down that long because of the dominance of the DL.


I believe that agim will make an immediate impact on this defense because he is what it is really missing. a dominant explosive guy who can rush the passer and demands a double team. because none of our DL guys are good enough individually to demand a double team offenses can pick and choose who and how they want to block us and we can't get the 1v1 match ups we want. our DL guys are solid enough they would win some 1v1s but without a guy to demand a double team we can't get those match ups regularly enough.


also coaches look great when they have talent. this year we are lacking and are inexperienced. Robb Smith can be great he needs some player help though.

[ShadowTheHedgehog]

Kirby Smart's competence as a DC can be questioned, IMO, because he has 22 BEASTS on his two deep.

CRS had three beasts and a solid safety and produced as well as KS did at Bama last year.

It's hard to produce a Top Ten defense as RS did last year with only 3 beasts.

That is a good point.

[Sed76]

We are in year 3, when is recruiting good defensive players going to become a priority.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Tackling is taught, that is what you really need to know.

[hawg IQ]

Coach Robb Smith is NOT the problem.  Deal with it.  The guy is a great DC.  He proved that last year.

The problem is he has some serious athletic deficiencies he is trying his best to work around.  They are:

1.  Serious limitations at LB.  We simply don't have the athletic talent (read SPEED) at LB to contain these spread teams that can also run the ball.  We have a young promising player in Dre Greenlaw who can fit the bill, but there's no one to play behind even Dre.  This deficiency was well-documented in the spring and again in fall camp.  Our LB's are solid against the run, but simply don't have the speed to cover the areas we need them to cover.

2.  We have no explosive, dynamic pass rushers.  Plain and simple.  Beanum and Wise, Jr. are solid, but simply aren't the explosive players we need them to be.  IMO our DL is very good against the run, but very poor rushing the passer.  Outside of LSU this has been obvious.  And, as everyone should understand, this creates serious problems in coverage as well.

3.  The play of our Safeties has been spotty, to poor, to horrendous.  Rohan has not produced nearly as we needed him to, and the others have not stepped up into any consistent performance.  Liddell and Santos are young.  Gaines does not have that excuse.  It's impossible to field a really good defense against the pass with the holes our Safeties are allowing.

4.  I believe our corners are very solid cover guys, but IMO they are not strong, physical corners, and, honestly, play very soft at times (soft as in not physical, not soft as in coverage).  They do much better against the quicker WR's, but due to their size and lack of physicality they are dominated by the more physical receivers, such as what MSU and OM put on the field.

5.  The bad news is all of these deficiencies add into one another in a very bad way right now in our pass defense.  Our weak pass rush allows QB's to have all the time their receivers need to find the gaps that will definitely be coming opening due to our limitations in LB speed and poor safety coverages/fits in coverages.

6.  This defense, while it has experience at certain positions, also lacks experience in other key position, i.e. safety, and that is a problem as well.

Sorry, but folks there is no quick fix for this list of problems.  Recruiting at LB especially, but across the board must improve if we're every going to be consistent on defense.

But, like it or not, Robb Smith is not the problem.  He's running around like the little Dutch boy, trying his best to plug the leaks as they spring up, only to have others open up out of his reach.

Last year he showed he could scheme a great defense even with a lack of overall talent, but he had one edge pass rusher, one inside pass rusher, one solid safety, and one fast LB who could cover a lot of ground in pass coverage.  CRS showed what he can do with just a small upgrade in talent at the right positions.

Let's hope this staff's recruiting can find us the men we need to fill those holes, and quickly.

Disagree, I think Robb Smith is the problem> Here's why, same crap last night we saw in Toledo game, Toss and catch with nobody close to receiver- Why ? A reciever jukes a corner and scores a TD with no safety in sight- why ? 4 man rush all night- no blitzes- Why ? No adjustments half time or anytime  -Why ? He's paid to come up with stuff to stop a 50 point night- he didn't - Why ? Other teams can stop a Miss state, hogs could not- Why ?
    Robb try something different- this crap don't work - why don't it ?
Its ROBB SMITH'S Scheme, it ant working- WHY ??

[Hog Pharm]

We are in year 3, when is recruiting good defensive players going to become a priority.

What makes you say it isn't a priority?

[reddogjcss]

They playing to best of there abilities, not giving up big plays cause there not good at man coverage yet. Lots of very young players on D and they are still growing up every game.

[radioheadhog]

Mississippi St. gained more yards BY FAR against us than against anyone else they have played this year, including the cupcakes. Some of you guys saying it's all about our talent deficiency are not correct here. We have less talent on defense than anyone they've played this entire season? No way. It was the scheme and the cushion we gave their receivers. All game.

[Sed76]

What makes you say it isn't a priority?

Granted I'm not a recruiting guy but I haven't heard of any defensive studs we have coming in. All I'm hearing is we have young guys who apparently have no idea how to tackle properly.

[Boarcephus]

Not at all, actually.

You can't tell what you need to tell by reading a box score.  You just can't.  You have to watch the play on the field.

And you can?  I'll buy into the fact we may not be as talented, not as fast, not as experienced as some other teams and maybe not as talented as last year but to be ranked 124 out of 128 is not acceptable.  Every single team ahead of us can't be more talented, faster or more experienced than we are.  Coaching is supposed to offset perceived deficiencies and seems like every passing qb we run up against has a career day.  UT Martin rang us up for over 500 yards.  I like Smith as much as the next guy and sang his praises last year but I don't think we can sit back and say we've seen his finest work this year.  JMHO. 

[ldfergu]

One thing i notice every game is the amount of confusion on defense. There is constantly players running on and off the field and trying to get in the right spots. I guess the learning curve for some of the newer guys in the back 7 has been pretty difficult. Once the kids are confident in knowing the concepts and plays it should correct A LOT of our problems

[Pig Worshipper]

This defense looks like it's in desperate need for a few good juco transfers? Otherwise we're in for another very rough year in 2016.
I wonder if we have any juco help lined up for the defense.

[Boardon Hamsay]

Lot of good reads here. Thanks fellas.

[Lake City Hog]

Reply #7 is from a thread that I started and may be nothing more than a crock, but i really believe that it is at the very least a part of our problems.
Last year Collins had 13 PBU's on 392 throws and this year he has 8 on 384 throws, DJ Dean has 3 this year and 5 last year. Have these guys lost some ability or have less talent in one season?

Our philosophy has changed and until it changes back to being aggressive we will continue to struggle regardless of the secondary coach or players.

Do any of you agree that playing tighter coverage helps the sack total?

[BPsTheMan]

pass defense is a team defense stat

not a defensive secondary stat

anyone who doesn't understand that needs to go sit at the kiddy table

[Lake City Hog]

Mr. Vonner, you seem to be nothing more than a drive by artist! You come into a thread and smart mouth some post and VERY seldom make any kind of comment to make the thread better or to give even a semi-informed opinion.

Maybe you should sit at the kiddie table, QUIETLY!

[WaltonCollege]

its the coaches fault regardless. this is Robb Smiths problem to fix. he's getting paid $800,000 this year to run a defense. I'm not going to feel sorry for him and blame the players. Are most of our defensive players lower ranked than other sec defensive players? Yes. But a lot of our defensive guys actually do have talent and need to be put in a position to succeed. Toliver and Lidell were burned bad multiple times yesterday. Its his job to get this right no matter what. If the players aren't doing it put in new ones. If the scheme is not working CHANGE IT! Woo Pig

[1HourToHogville]

We tried to play a lot of zone coverage in first half.  Result was Dak picked us apart. Did attempt more man pressure coverage in 2nd half   Daks running ability makes run support by secondary very difficult if you're playing man coverage.  And we needed run support to stop their running as our front 6-7 couldn't do it without. 
Linebackers have to be flexible.  Brooks isn't flexible enough. But he's the brains of the defense on the field and they need him there for that reason. Getting aligned properly is the first step and I suspect Brooks is key to getting that done.  Dre is a better athlete but he's a freshman and just doesn't have the experience yet needed.  He will be better next season. 
Need to recruit and develop some depth quickly. 

[bigdaddyhawg]

Disagree, I think Robb Smith is the problem> Here's why, same crap last night we saw in Toledo game, Toss and catch with nobody close to receiver- Why ? A reciever jukes a corner and scores a TD with no safety in sight- why ? 4 man rush all night- no blitzes- Why ? No adjustments half time or anytime  -Why ? He's paid to come up with stuff to stop a 50 point night- he didn't - Why ? Other teams can stop a Miss state, hogs could not- Why ?
    Robb try something different- this crap don't work - why don't it ?
Its ROBB SMITH'S Scheme, it ant working- WHY ??

For the Nth time, he DID try blitzes, and they yielded worse results than other options.

And, yes, we are seeing the same crap that we saw in the Toledo game -- which makes sense when RS is dealing with the exact same limitations he was vs. Toledo.

There is NO magical 'scheme' to cover up for the talent gaps we currently have on the defense.

I promise you Robb Smith is smarter about how to run complex defensive schemes before he has his first cup of coffee in the morning than you or I will ever be if we lived to be 1,000 years old.

[presidenthog]

Reply #7 is from a thread that I started and may be nothing more than a crock, but i really believe that it is at the very least a part of our problems.
Last year Collins had 13 PBU's on 392 throws and this year he has 8 on 384 throws, DJ Dean has 3 this year and 5 last year. Have these guys lost some ability or have less talent in one season?

Our philosophy has changed and until it changes back to being aggressive we will continue to struggle regardless of the secondary coach or players.

Do any of you agree that playing tighter coverage helps the sack total?

last year when robb smith was brought in we was told we was switching from a quarters quarters defense (chris ash) to a cover 6 shell defense (smith). that the defense that Chris was running wouldn't work in this league and that we needed a more aggressive defense that would dictate to offense. last year our secondary did alot of movement and would play up close to WR'S and would push them off thier routes. towards the end of the year we was running alot more man. I read somewhere that now robb smith is running a Tampa 2 defense and that it requires a very talented roster to run effectively. the Tampa 2 is used to keep you from getting beat deep and forces an offense to go the length of the field to score and really tries and make an offense beat itself.

I will say that I was at the auburn game and I will say that we ran quarters quarters almost exclusively. so if you were to ask me we have actually changed scheme from a year ago and we have went full circle back to the chris ash style of defense, but a more simplistic version, with simpler verbiage and we only run like 5 plays on defense and it is very easy for offense to figure out what coverage we are going to run based on what the down and distance is. honestly we just run cover 4 like 80% of the time. it's why you will see brooks Ellis on an island in the middle on any passing down and he plays deep in his zone and the slant is always there.

[bigdaddyhawg]

its the coaches fault regardless. this is Robb Smiths problem to fix. he's getting paid $800,000 this year to run a defense. I'm not going to feel sorry for him and blame the players.

I agree with you, but the issues must be fixed through recruiting, and that's on CBB and the entire staff, not just CRS.  But, yes, I agree, ultimately CBB/CRS/et al must be held accountable for the results our defense produces.

And last year CRS produced a top 10 defense with recruiting rankings that averaged in the 30's probably for our defensive recruits.

It's foolish to expect a guy to work miracles.  You end up running off a lot of good coordinators with that silliness.

[Lake City Hog]

Big, the 1st premise of blitzing is tight coverage which we didn't do.
Don't EVER believe that coaches are infallible because they aren't. They make mistakes like trying to force Ellis into the WLB spot that he is not equipped to handle.

[IronHog]

Cold hard facts


One again it was the offense not the defense that failed on 4th and 1 and at the end of regulation.

[BPsTheMan]

Mr. Vonner, you seem to be nothing more than a drive by artist! You come into a thread and smart mouth some post and VERY seldom make any kind of comment to make the thread better or to give even a semi-informed opinion.

Maybe you should sit at the kiddie table, QUIETLY!

sounds like you have a guilty conscience

[bigdaddyhawg]

We are in year 3, when is recruiting good defensive players going to become a priority.

If you pay much attention to our recruiting, it already has been a priority.  And IMO we've had some successes.  We just haven't produced any studs at LB (outside of Greenlaw) or S.  Yet.

But we'd better start getting some very solid hits on that proverbial recruiting trail, and quickly IMO.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Mr. Vonner, you seem to be nothing more than a drive by artist! You come into a thread and smart mouth some post and VERY seldom make any kind of comment to make the thread better or to give even a semi-informed opinion.

Maybe you should sit at the kiddie table, QUIETLY!

Partner, he made a solid, valid point in that post.  And his point agrees with my OP, that it's not just one position that is contributing to the problems, but rather the combined issues at many positions.

[jowl@themoon]

Is it just me or do we need a class on "How to disengage from a blocking/holding reciever"? Seemed like every dump out in the flat went for ten yards.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Is it just me or do we need a class on "How to disengage from a blocking/holding reciever"? Seemed like every dump out in the flat went for ten yards.

See item #4 in my OP.

[code red]

In my opinion... The defense is unacceptable.  I am not sure its youth.  I do understand we lost 3 fine players to the league.  But.  This Arkansas defense fails to even slow servicable offenses.  Let's discuss.

[Oklahawg]

Reply #7 is from a thread that I started and may be nothing more than a crock, but i really believe that it is at the very least a part of our problems.
Last year Collins had 13 PBU's on 392 throws and this year he has 8 on 384 throws, DJ Dean has 3 this year and 5 last year. Have these guys lost some ability or have less talent in one season?

Our philosophy has changed and until it changes back to being aggressive we will continue to struggle regardless of the secondary coach or players.

Do any of you agree that playing tighter coverage helps the sack total?

Fewer PBUs is not necessarily on the CBs. How long are they having to hold coverage? A half-second is a decent amount of time - if the DL give an extra 1.5 seconds...yuck.

===

Arkansasrazorback is infesting another thread, I see. He needs to cool his jets.

===

The Speed thread on MMQB has a lot of parallel commentary. I inadvertently typed there a lot of what the OP shares here.

[BPsTheMan]

Great defensive backs often want to experiment with their own technique. Some laissez faire coaches let them do it. It can be a good thing. And it can also get you in trouble.

Interesting fact: both Gene Stallings and Nick Saban were inherently defensive back coaches. I once watched an Alabama spring practice where Gene Stallings took over the secondary from Bill Oliver for several moments during the middle of practice. Strange thing to witness: legendary Bill Oliver following Stallings around listening while Stallings stopped practice and walked Oliver's defensive backs through their proper assignments. Stallings, in what looked like a white short sleeve Walmart oxford shirt - dressed like a Wednesday night Bible study teacher at practice - was pissed, and was going to stop play and rewalk them all through it again as long as they kept screwing it up.

Guarantee it's the same with Saban.

We don't have that with Bret coming from a line background.

So if our DB's are ever so slightly gaining bad habits during practice, Robb needs to be the one to notice it and stop the train during practice, and get it taken care of.

For one, our DB's simply aren't getting low enough to change directions. It's not lazy, it's a technique bad habit they've been allowed to develop.

[BPsTheMan]

It's worth remembering that Brother Bill Oliver was a coaching genius.  If you doubt that, watch the '93 Sugar Bowl (Alabama vs Miami) and see how the Tide slew the beast Miami had become.  Alabama's defense stacked the box, and dared Miami to beat them deep - and for the first time in many games, Miami had an opponent who could match them for speed. 

My God that game was a thing of beauty for the ages.

and their fundamentals were flawless

[Oklahawg]

Giving Arkansasrazorback some credit for this: when you are in shotgun and throw 3-step hot routes you won't get pressured much. Put the DB on the LOS and it is a fake and go with a DB running 3 steps behind.

We were opportunistic at the start of the 3rd quarter. Got Dak off balance and things were working in our favor. When we gave him a chance to get his foot back in the door he did.

Sometimes you tip your hat to the other team.

[HogInFlorida]

You don't need SPEED to make a freaking tackle properly

[BPsTheMan]

Especially the strip from behind.....!

[hawg IQ]

For the Nth time, he DID try blitzes, and they yielded worse results than other options.

And, yes, we are seeing the same crap that we saw in the Toledo game -- which makes sense when RS is dealing with the exact same limitations he was vs. Toledo.

There is NO magical 'scheme' to cover up for the talent gaps we currently have on the defense.

I promise you Robb Smith is smarter about how to run complex defensive schemes before he has his first cup of coffee in the morning than you or I will ever be if we lived to be 1,000 years old.

Having a receiver run free in secondary without seeing a safety on the screen until about 5 yard line has nothing to do with a lacking in talent. Not playing man on man at the 5 yard line and allowing a receiver to just lope into the endzone un touched has nothing to do with talent. If its not scheme , we have the dumbest secondary on the planet.