Inside linebackers

[snoop hawgy hawg]

After hearing about how the defense started getting rolled on after Harris and greenlaw came out of the game, it would be a lie to say I'm not a little worried about depth at ILB but I think two weeks is more than enough time for two more young guys to step up and be able to hold the the fort down while those two guys get a wind during games. Maybe even make a few plays while there in.... 

Thoughts??

[jst01]

Our LBs will scare me til I'm proven wrong. O coordinators game planned to expose our LBs last year and it worked to perfection. My fingers are crossed.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Our LBs will scare me til I'm proven wrong. O coordinators game planned to expose our LBs last year and it worked to perfection. My fingers are crossed.

I think that a lot of that had to do with the defensive scheme and the DC whose game plan made it easier for OC's to scheme up LB's trying to cover WR's, which should never happen. It wasn't the personnel as much as it was the scheme. We'll see if Rhoads can be more effective. So far, I'm convinced that he can be.

As for ILB depth, we have our starters and from all reports, Grant Morgan is playing exceptionally well (Agim raved about the kid) and I believe that Hargreaves has said that the ILB personnel can play either spot. I'm not sure what is going on with Dee Walker or LaFrance but I think we heard Bielema say something about Kyrei Fisher and Hayden Henry just needing more time to develop. Of course they are true freshmen, so that makes sense.

[Mike_e]

Freshmen, if they're good, usually stop being Freshmen sometime during the middle of the season.

So, there is hope for some backup down the stretch.

[bphi11ips]

I think that a lot of that had to do with the defensive scheme and the DC whose game plan made it easier for OC's to scheme up LB's trying to cover WR's, which should never happen. It wasn't the personnel as much as it was the scheme. We'll see if Rhoads can be more effective. So far, I'm convinced that he can be.

As for ILB depth, we have our starters and from all reports, Grant Morgan is playing exceptionally well (Agim raved about the kid) and I believe that Hargreaves has said that the ILB personnel can play either spot. I'm not sure what is going on with Dee Walker or LaFrance but I think we heard Bielema say something about Kyrei Fisher and Hayden Henry just needing more time to develop. Of course they are true freshmen, so that makes sense.

Talent won't be the issue but experience and depth will be.  Hopefully we'll get support from the safeties without giving up too much over the top.  It's going to take time.  The offense can help with TOP and success in the red zone.

[Hogopolis]

Last year it was more a scheme issue.    The middle of the field was wide open for big plays against us all year.  It wasn't players getting beat it was players not being put in a position to have a chance at success.   That's why we have a new defensive coordinator and are running the 3-4.   I expect a lot of improvement.   

[bennyl08]

If Greenlaw of Harris leave the game, I think we see Eugene come back inside and somebody like Roesler will then take Eugene's spot outside.

If we lose both though, that will be very hard to replace. Losing Greenlaw would be a blow to the defense, but as we saw last year, Eugene was able to replace him and we saw no dropoff on defense. Eugene's stats over 6 games before his injury mirrored that of Eugene's 6 games after Dre's injury. Overall defensive production didn't drop off either. Harris, otoh, losing him IMO would be akin to losing Agim on the DL or Whaley at RB. Don't think there is anybody on our roster with the same talent level as him at the position.

[snoop hawgy hawg]

If Greenlaw of Harris leave the game, I think we see Eugene come back inside and somebody like Roesler will then take Eugene's spot outside.

If we lose both though, that will be very hard to replace. Losing Greenlaw would be a blow to the defense, but as we saw last year, Eugene was able to replace him and we saw no dropoff on defense. Eugene's stats over 6 games before his injury mirrored that of Eugene's 6 games after Dre's injury. Overall defensive production didn't drop off either. Harris, otoh, losing him IMO would be akin to losing Agim on the DL or Whaley at RB. Don't think there is anybody on our roster with the same talent level as him at the position.

I really hope the lightbulb comes on for Eugene this season..we need production from the hog and razor positions this year!!

[Cletus]

What about Josh Harris?

[factchecker]

What about Josh Harris?

Injured

[onebadrubi]

Our LBs will scare me til I'm proven wrong. O coordinators game planned to expose our LBs last year and it worked to perfection. My fingers are crossed.

They did?  I think our weakness last year was the edges, not solely on LB'ers.  But you can certainly prove me wrong.

[onebadrubi]

If Greenlaw of Harris leave the game, I think we see Eugene come back inside and somebody like Roesler will then take Eugene's spot outside.

If we lose both though, that will be very hard to replace. Losing Greenlaw would be a blow to the defense, but as we saw last year, Eugene was able to replace him and we saw no dropoff on defense. Eugene's stats over 6 games before his injury mirrored that of Eugene's 6 games after Dre's injury. Overall defensive production didn't drop off either. Harris, otoh, losing him IMO would be akin to losing Agim on the DL or Whaley at RB. Don't think there is anybody on our roster with the same talent level as him at the position.

What about Ramsey inside?  I wonder if he's gotten any reps there.  His size and speed could definitely do better than just be a warm body at the position.

[PorkRinds]

I think Morgan may get some playing time there.

[longpig]

What about Ramsey inside?  I wonder if he's gotten any reps there.  His size and speed could definitely do better than just be a warm body at the position.

Ramsey isn't near heavy enough to play inside at 6'4".  Greenlaw weighs what Ramsey does and is 3 to 4 inches shorter.

[bennyl08]

What about Ramsey inside?  I wonder if he's gotten any reps there.  His size and speed could definitely do better than just be a warm body at the position.

Eh, seems like that would be a waste for him. He's got good speed, but I don't think he'd be utilized very well in the middle. He could probably do decently enough like a Kirkland, Skipper, or a Hurd being used at LT, but stopping the run, sitting in a zone in pass coverage, taking on OL on running downs and trying to get off blocks... Don't think I'd want to be asking that of Ramsey. I think he is best suited on the outside beating tackles with his speed rush or trying to cover TE's.

Of course, having said that, I didn't think Ramsey would be terribly successful rushing the passer at the college level in general. Namely, his entire HS highlights tape is just a 200 pound guy lining up as a DE and showing him be faster and quicker than the tackles and being able to get into the backfield. Sure, it showed good explosion and speed from him, but if that kind of trick worked in the SEC, you'd think that everybody would just be recruiting safeties to play DE basically. Yet, lo and behold, at least with Ramsey, the trick that kids at least used to do 10 years ago playing video game football apparently does work in real life.

I mention all of that to essentially have a long winded way to say take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[kingt]

When I watched Dee Walker in HS he mostly played as a 3-4 outside backer. He either rushed or dropped into zone. Problem with that is he is too small to play that in College so they moved him to MLB which isn't his natural position.  I'm surprised Derrick Munson hasn't been making much noise, I had high hopes for him coming into camp.

[Al Boarland]

Huge concern running the 3-4 is being able to recruit elite talent at LB. If you can't land high 4 and 5 stars it's not going to be a great D.

[Hogfan46]

Huge concern running the 3-4 is being able to recruit elite talent at LB. If you can't land high 4 and 5 stars it's not going to be a great D.

High 4 and 5 stars help any D regardless of the scheme. As far as the 3-4, generally easier to recruit athletic, fast guys to play LB than recruiting highly rated DL.

[Headhog32]

I feel like Morgan will be able to step in there as a freshman and make some plays. time will tell

[Bubba's Bruisers]

When I watched Dee Walker in HS he mostly played as a 3-4 outside backer. He either rushed or dropped into zone. Problem with that is he is too small to play that in College so they moved him to MLB which isn't his natural position.  I'm surprised Derrick Munson hasn't been making much noise, I had high hopes for him coming into camp.

Why are you surprised about Munson?  He was pretty much an unheralded recruit who basically just entered the program.  Kid's probably gonna need some time...like most true freshmen.

[Headhog32]

Why are you surprised about Munson?  He was pretty much an unheralded recruit who basically just entered the program.  Kid's probably gonna need some time...like most true freshmen.

I don't think munson had high expectations coming in as a freshman? he's the type of guy that needs a year or two under him and then he could be a playmaker

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Huge concern running the 3-4 is being able to recruit elite talent at LB. If you can't land high 4 and 5 stars it's not going to be a great D.

There are more and better LB's to recruit than there are DT's/NT's. It's great if you can land 4 and 5 star LB's but you don't have to have the ones that are ranked that high to be successful in a 3-4. The consistency and effectiveness of the offense plays a role as well. An interesting question would be, how many top 30 defenses that run a 3-4 have LB's that are all 4 or 5 star rated players coming out of high school? I don't have the answer to that, which is why I am asking. 

[onebadrubi]

Ramsey isn't near heavy enough to play inside at 6'4".  Greenlaw weighs what Ramsey does and is 3 to 4 inches shorter.

My thoughts were if we were down our two inside guys already, in which we'd be searching for a MLB.

[onebadrubi]

Eh, seems like that would be a waste for him. He's got good speed, but I don't think he'd be utilized very well in the middle. He could probably do decently enough like a Kirkland, Skipper, or a Hurd being used at LT, but stopping the run, sitting in a zone in pass coverage, taking on OL on running downs and trying to get off blocks... Don't think I'd want to be asking that of Ramsey. I think he is best suited on the outside beating tackles with his speed rush or trying to cover TE's.

Of course, having said that, I didn't think Ramsey would be terribly successful rushing the passer at the college level in general. Namely, his entire HS highlights tape is just a 200 pound guy lining up as a DE and showing him be faster and quicker than the tackles and being able to get into the backfield. Sure, it showed good explosion and speed from him, but if that kind of trick worked in the SEC, you'd think that everybody would just be recruiting safeties to play DE basically. Yet, lo and behold, at least with Ramsey, the trick that kids at least used to do 10 years ago playing video game football apparently does work in real life.

I mention all of that to essentially have a long winded way to say take my opinion with a grain of salt.

See my response to longpig. Not saying him over greenlaw or Harris, instead if we were to lose both of them. 

[onebadrubi]

Huge concern running the 3-4 is being able to recruit elite talent at LB. If you can't land high 4 and 5 stars it's not going to be a great D.

Why was Colorado so good in it last year then??

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I don't think munson had high expectations coming in as a freshman? he's the type of guy that needs a year or two under him and then he could be a playmaker

Agree. 

[Al Boarland]

Why was Colorado so good in it last year then??

Not real sure. What kind of talent are they up against? Do they play 6/7 top 15 teams every year that recruit really well?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Not real sure. What kind of talent are they up against? Do they play 6/7 top 15 teams every year that recruit really well?

I think the difference in their defense was the DC.

[onebadrubi]

Not real sure. What kind of talent are they up against? Do they play 6/7 top 15 teams every year that recruit really well?

They defended the spread very well.  They did get tested, maybe not by the likes of a bama or lsu rushing game, but none the less.  It proves you don't have to have 4 and 5 star talent to be competitive.  A roster full of 3 and 4 stars with experience and will can win as many games as you want

[kingt]

Maybe it's just me but when I watched Munson's film I saw Jericho Nelson/Dre Greenlaw. The speed and nose for ball the jumped out at me that usually translates to the next level no matter what the measurables are.        http://www.hudl.com/profile/4798309/derrick-munson                                                   

[kingt]

Do yourself a favor and watch the highlight "it was fun" after clicking the link.

[bennyl08]

See my response to longpig. Not saying him over greenlaw or Harris, instead if we were to lose both of them.

I knew what you were saying and answered as though greenlaw and scoota were both out. I think we are better suited using the likes of Eugene, Morgan, LaFrance, and AJB in the middle than putting Ramsey in there. IMO, there will be less of a drop off using those players than there would be placing Ramsey in the middle and having a backup fill in Ramsey's old spot.

Who on our roster at LB has demonstrated any success in generating a pass rush from the LB spot? I think Taylor had the right skill set, but he's now at DE. Bell had the physical but is lost on the season. Fisher and Paul I think can, but are true freshmen. I like Gabe's potential as well, but again, he's just coming from JUCO so no SEC demonstration yet.

[LRHog]

Do yourself a favor and watch the highlight "it was fun" after clicking the link.

Kid looks like he really just enjoys hurting people.... and I LOVE IT!

[longpig]

My thoughts were if we were down our two inside guys already, in which we'd be searching for a MLB.

Were that to happen I'd think someone like Roesler or Eugene would get shuffled in there.  A tall lean guy just ain't gonna cut it in the middle.  Sounds as though we've got a few guys catching on quick so hopefully it won't be an issue for long.

[Al Boarland]

A roster full of 3 and 4 stars with experience and will can win as many games as you want

We'll just have to disagree here.

[onebadrubi]

We'll just have to disagree here.

So only stars matter to you?  Well, in that case you should believe good things are coming because we have some of the best and highest star ratings on campus now!  Do you. Slow e the greatest years are in the near future?  That's surely what you are saying based on stars

[Dominicanhog]

They did?  I think our weakness last year was the edges, not solely on LB'ers.  But you can certainly prove me wrong.

[Dominicanhog]

Maybe it's just me but when I watched Munson's film I saw Jericho Nelson/Dre Greenlaw. The speed and nose for ball the jumped out at me that usually translates to the next level no matter what the measurables are.        http://www.hudl.com/profile/4798309/derrick-munson                                                 

I compared him to Jericho when he announced... I think he'll play a hybrid role.. DB close to the line...I like his game alot..

[Al Boarland]

So only stars matter to you?  Well, in that case you should believe good things are coming because we have some of the best and highest star ratings on campus now!  Do you. Slow e the greatest years are in the near future?  That's surely what you are saying based on stars

Look at the teams that are having success and they recruit well. Our recruiting rankings are not in line with teams having success. I understand some disagree with my reliance on talent, but the the results speak for themselves.

It would be awesome if we could pull every under the radar player and develop them to play at an elite level. The chances of that all happening on both sides of the ball, at the same time, are slim to none. 

Now, if we were to recruit at this level in another conference the outlook wouldn't be as bleak, but we are in the SECw where 4/5 star LB's are stacked up cycle after cycle. If they are getting them we aren't. It's pretty simple.

Sure, you can put guys in the right position to make a play and that's better than them not being there. That doesn't mean they won't get trucked or ran around by superior athletes. You can have guys that want it and give all their effort, but what about the more talented guys that want it and gives all their effort?

I just think people need to pump their brakes on the 3-4 being the cure. We aren't the only team running it. 3-4 and 4-3 get scored on just the same. OC's will find a weakness and exploit it. Eno's does a great job at that very thing. There will be a lot better QB play this season in the SEC, so expecting some kind of significant statistical improvement is wishful thinking, IMO.

[Deep Shoat]

So only stars matter to you?  Well, in that case you should believe good things are coming because we have some of the best and highest star ratings on campus now!  Do you. Slow e the greatest years are in the near future?  That's surely what you are saying based on stars

NOTHING matters to Al but recruiting rankings.

In his world, the games are superfluous.  The results were decided on signing day.

[Al Boarland]

NOTHING matters to Al but recruiting rankings.

In his world, the games are superfluous.  The results were decided on signing day.

Most times they are. When you pick the lesser talented team you are going with outlier outcomes. When you pick the more talented team you have the numbers behind your prediction.

[Headhog32]

Most times they are. When you pick the lesser talented team you are going with outlier outcomes. When you pick the more talented team you have the numbers behind your prediction.

just look at all the 3 stars that have become major playmakers us

[longpig]

Most times they are. When you pick the lesser talented team you are going with outlier outcomes. When you pick the more talented team you have the numbers behind your prediction.

All else being equal you may be right.  Problem is all else is never equal.

[hawginbigd1]

Look at the teams that are having success and they recruit well. Our recruiting rankings are not in line with teams having success. I understand some disagree with my reliance on talent, but the the results speak for themselves.

It would be awesome if we could pull every under the radar player and develop them to play at an elite level. The chances of that all happening on both sides of the ball, at the same time, are slim to none. 

Now, if we were to recruit at this level in another conference the outlook wouldn't be as bleak, but we are in the SECw where 4/5 star LB's are stacked up cycle after cycle. If they are getting them we aren't. It's pretty simple.

Sure, you can put guys in the right position to make a play and that's better than them not being there. That doesn't mean they won't get trucked or ran around by superior athletes. You can have guys that want it and give all their effort, but what about the more talented guys that want it and gives all their effort?

I just think people need to pump their brakes on the 3-4 being the cure. We aren't the only team running it. 3-4 and 4-3 get scored on just the same. OC's will find a weakness and exploit it. Eno's does a great job at that very thing. There will be a lot better QB play this season in the SEC, so expecting some kind of significant statistical improvement is wishful thinking, IMO.

Just be sure and man up and eat the crow at the end of the season when we wind up with 9 to 10 wins and a top 40 defense.

[bennyl08]

All else being equal you may be right.  Problem is all else is never equal.

He is halfway correct, and in my experience, half truths are more dangerous than complete ignorance. The ignorant person realizes they don't know the answer whereas the person with a half truth doesn't know they are wrong and can probably convince others they are right.

Where al is halfway correct is that overall, yeah, you will be correct more often than not if you bet on every game, in every conference, for the whole season, by choosing the team with the better recruiting rankings. Where he is absolutely off is his use of the word outlier which has a very specific meaning.

Take every game and the 247 recruiting differential from the winner minus the loser. The mean and median will likely be above zero. However, an outlier in the data would be one where the outcome is greater than two standard deviations. Somewhere around 30-40% of the outcomes are going to be below zero, so the idea that a team with a lower recruiting ranking will win is an outlier is completely bonkers. It isn't the expected outcome, sure, but it happens frequently enough.

Why? The reason you succinctly state. All else is never equal. Auburn is a great example of this. Mixture of elite and incredibly sub-par talent. We have had substantially more NFL talent than Auburn has had. However, Auburn has had significantly more early round picks than we have had. This leads to the bi-polar nature of their football team. What other team in the country could go 3-9 one year and then 13-1, losing in the national championship the next year? And the crazy thing is, that isn't all that weird for Auburn. 5-7 in 2008, 14-0 in 2010, 3-9 in 2012, and then 13-1 in 2013.

[onebadrubi]

Coaching.

So good coaches can make 2 and 3 stars like coalrdo better than average but can't make 3 and 4 stars at Arkansas better than average?  What am
I missing?

[longpig]

So good coaches can make 2 and 3 stars like coalrdo better than average but can't make 3 and 4 stars at Arkansas better than average?  What am
I missing?

That our average  player is better than Colorado's average player. 

[HamSammich]

Most times they are. When you pick the lesser talented team you are going with outlier outcomes. When you pick the more talented team you have the numbers behind your prediction.

wow you better talk to Louisville, Miami, and Iowa and make sure they should stink this year and if they don't they are just outlier.

Stars are all that matters in a sport. Those arbitrary stars. You win.