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To me the Florida situation stinks.

Started by Piggfoot, November 01, 2017, 12:23:34 pm

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Piggfoot

You have a coach who's had two great years out of three and they fire him. Presumably they fire him because they can't prove whether or not he received threats. Do they expect the person issuing the threat to step forward and admit to doing it? Suspect we haven't heard the rest of the story.
Hog fan since 1960. So thankful for Sam Pittman.

go hogues

We have.

They just needed a reason and they found it.
Quote from: Leadbelly on September 24, 2019, 09:05:22 pm<br />Dude, our back has been against the wall so long, we are now on the other side of the wall!<br />

 

hoglady

I don't care if they fire him for basically having a pretty terrible offense for 3 years.

Anyone who believes they fired him over the death threats comments isn't facing reality.
They used those to try to get out of paying him what he was owed - and I guess they think the public is gullible enough to believe them.
Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?

"Compassion for animals is intimately associated with goodness of character, and it may be confidently asserted that he who is cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
― Arthur Schopenhauer, The Basis of Morality

onebadrubi

Florida was winning games solely on talent, their head coach was a disaster.  It was obvious to the publci by watching games.  No telling how bad it was behind the scenes.

Atlhogfan1

The threats were a part of the firing.  But just the final part that made it easier to do now.  This isn't the first time McElwain has said something stupid.  McElwain was a bad fit.  You want an example of bad fits, this was one of the worst.  Not quite Rich Rod at Michigan bad. 


http://www.ocala.com/sports/20171028/dooley-georgia-loss-not-reason-uf-will-part-with-mcelwain
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

FutureMan

November 01, 2017, 12:53:27 pm #5 Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 01:04:14 pm by FutureMan
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with their decision but they fired him because the team was bad, boring, and did not energize the fan base.  Yes, their conference record was really good, but it was at a time when the East was TERRIBLE.  Florida fans know this.  Whenever they played a team that was worth a damn, they got killed and were not competitive.  Florida knows what a good football team looks like - and they didn't have it.
"Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit."
- E.E. Cummings

holeinthewall

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 01, 2017, 12:23:34 pm
You have a coach who's had two great years out of three and they fire him. Presumably they fire him because they can't prove whether or not he received threats. Do they expect the person issuing the threat to step forward and admit to doing it? Suspect we haven't heard the rest of the story.

They fired him because all those inbred Croc fans hated him and half his team has been in trouble since he arrived.  He doesn't get along with the admin.  The lying about the threats was just an out so they didn't have to apy him.

Pork Ranger

Quote from: FutureMan on November 01, 2017, 12:53:27 pm
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with their decision but they fired him because the team was boring and did not energize the fan base.  Yes, their conference record was really good, but it was at a time when the East was TERRIBLE.  Florida fans know this.  Whenever they played a team that was worth a damn, they got killed and were not competitive.  Florida knows what a good football team looks like - and they didn't have it.

It could make it less desirable to somencoaches though. At least if we keep Long, whoever we hire next will know that they will get a fair shake

311Hog

i just think it is a paper thin excuse, i would be surprised if it held up in court if he wanted to fight it, but i would assume they reach some buyout figure in the millions maybe not 12 million.

FutureMan

Quote from: BritneySpareRibs on November 01, 2017, 12:56:50 pm
It could make it less desirable to somencoaches though. At least if we keep Long, whoever we hire next will know that they will get a fair shake

Agree whole-heartedly.  I think that is something that should not be discounted.
"Once we believe in ourselves, we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit."
- E.E. Cummings

EastexHawg

He is 22-12.  An average record of 7-4 is not good enough at Florida, especially when they are 3-4 this year with their three wins coming against Tennessee, Kentucky, and Vanderbilt.

McElwain's record is very similar to Ron Zook's when Zook was fired.  He was 16-8 against a weak SEC East, too. 

Some programs have higher aspirations than others.  That is apparently difficult for some to understand.

Piggfoot

Quote from: EastexHawg on November 01, 2017, 01:46:05 pm
He is 22-12.  An average record of 7-4 is not good enough at Florida, especially when they are 3-4 this year with their three wins coming against Tennessee, Kentucky, and Vanderbilt.

McElwain's record is very similar to Ron Zook's when Zook was fired.  He was 16-8 against a weak SEC East, too. 

Some programs have higher aspirations than others.  That is apparently difficult for some to understand.
Hog fan since 1960. So thankful for Sam Pittman.

sickboy

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 01, 2017, 12:23:34 pm
You have a coach who's had two great years out of three and they fire him. Presumably they fire him because they can't prove whether or not he received threats. Do they expect the person issuing the threat to step forward and admit to doing it? Suspect we haven't heard the rest of the story.

Supposedly, the AD and McElwain really do not get a long. I bet this has as much to do with that too.

 

Piggfoot

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 01, 2017, 01:48:56 pm

I understand winning fully but if that's the case put it in the contract. Matter of fact I think Arkansas should have a win clause in the head football coaches contract. The money is so large, 4 mil for 5 years takes the incentive of winning away. It's crazy.
Hog fan since 1960. So thankful for Sam Pittman.

ipigsooie

I appreciate the fact that mediocre isnt good enough at UF. I wish our standards were higher. You have to remember that Spurrier was there a long time and did pretty well. Spoiled a lot of fans. Zook had to follow that and we know how that turned out.  Then urban came along and had his success. They dont feel like they should be a 7 or 8 win team. Who can blame them?

rljjr

I'd take Mac and the shark he rode in on if he brought Randy Shannon.

davglo35

I don't mind watching Florida wallow in mediocrity.

12247

Bottom line is most humans expect to get what they paid for.  We paid for a solid, P5 winning coach and simply did not get one.  We didn't even get a solid .500 coach. 

snoblind

Quote from: BritneySpareRibs on November 01, 2017, 12:56:50 pm
It could make it less desirable to somencoaches though. At least if we keep Long, whoever we hire next will know that they will get a fair shake

No, they don't.

Grizzlyfan

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 01, 2017, 12:23:34 pm
You have a coach who's had two great years out of three and they fire him. Presumably they fire him because they can't prove whether or not he received threats. Do they expect the person issuing the threat to step forward and admit to doing it? Suspect we haven't heard the rest of the story.
Players suspended.  Arrested maybe?  No evidence of any real death threats.  The McElwain firing went far beyond wins and losses.

bennyl08

Quote from: ipigsooie on November 01, 2017, 01:54:14 pm
I appreciate the fact that mediocre isnt good enough at UF. I wish our standards were higher. You have to remember that Spurrier was there a long time and did pretty well. Spoiled a lot of fans. Zook had to follow that and we know how that turned out.  Then urban came along and had his success. They dont feel like they should be a 7 or 8 win team. Who can blame them?

Lucky for us, Long has fires coaches that perform mediocre or worse. See Pelphrey. See him calling out Bielema before the season on not winning enough and that Bielema is as good as gone at the end of this season.

That said, I don't think our standards should be the same as Florida's. If we fire every coach that averages less than 10 wins a season, we'll never have a HC. We are, however, very capable of fielding a team that averaged 8.5 wins a season which is something that Bielema has shown he'll never be able to do here.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

NaturalStateReb

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 01, 2017, 12:23:34 pm
You have a coach who's had two great years out of three and they fire him. Presumably they fire him because they can't prove whether or not he received threats. Do they expect the person issuing the threat to step forward and admit to doing it? Suspect we haven't heard the rest of the story.

They've pretty much sucked, but the East has sucked more over the last three years.  They went to Atlanta for two years because Georgia and Tennessee absolutely wouldn't accept winning the east.

With Smart doing well at Georgia, it's pretty clear that the era of scraping by and backing into titles is over on that side.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

Hogimus Prime

He was a bad fit to begin with.  Wasn't a wow hire. Didn't seem like he belonged at Florida. Kinda dorky looking. Looks like he belongs in the Duggar family. Put Florida in the west and his record is like Sumlin's or Bert's.

razorbackfaninar

Quote from: FutureMan on November 01, 2017, 12:53:27 pm
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with their decision but they fired him because the team was bad, boring, and did not energize the fan base.  Yes, their conference record was really good, but it was at a time when the East was TERRIBLE.  Florida fans know this.  Whenever they played a team that was worth a damn, they got killed and were not competitive.  Florida knows what a good football team looks like - and they didn't have it.

I agree.  This is a prime example of why I hate the saying "you are what your record says you are" it's the dumbest and laziest form of analysis.  Florida's record says they aren't too bad, but you don't have to watch too many of their games to see that they were just a bad football team.  I also can't stand the disingenuous way people keep saying: "Here's a coach that won the East in back to back seasons, and they fired him, they must be crazy."  He won the East but the East has been absolutely terrible, any one with eyes and a minimal football knowledge can see that Florida has not been a good football team.   

 

jrhardy88

He belonged at Florida because Florida is historically another Kentucky.Those jort wearing Florida fans better get used to going back to their mean.
Standing on the shoulders of giants.

Paul


Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 01, 2017, 12:23:34 pm
You have a coach who's had two great years out of three and they fire him. Presumably they fire him because they can't prove whether or not he received threats. Do they expect the person issuing the threat to step forward and admit to doing it? Suspect we haven't heard the rest of the story.
I'm not going to get into the whys and why nots of McElwain being let go. To some degree I think there was some politics going on behind the scenes (imagine that) we may never know about. However, something I read the other day made me say "Huh, oh.....he screwed up" was an article that said that Spurrier, who retains an "advisory" role at UF had reached out to JM several times to discuss ideas about the offense but was rebuffed by Mc. When I saw that I thought to myself that even if you don't want to consider making changes, you still offer to talk with Steve.

I think the UF job could end up being something like the Alabama job was after the Bear retired. You'll recall that except for the years when Stallings was HC and took them to a NC, for the most part the HCs they hired met with very patchy success. It really until Nick was hired they finally got back on track in big way. Similarly with Florida they've been trying to duplicate the success they had with Spurrier and then Urban. Since then they've struggled to find consistent leadership. Yes, the UF job is a excellent one due primarily to the state's huge recruiting base. However, we also have to remember that prior to Spurrier the gators had only sporadic success throughout much of the 50s, 60s and 70s. This is NOT a program that has necessarily had a LONG history of year, after year, after year of sustained success over the past 50 years. Are the UF's hoping to find a Spurrier or Urban clone?

theFlyingHog

Quote from: rljjr on November 01, 2017, 02:22:58 pm
I'd take Mac and the shark he rode in on if he brought Randy Shannon.
Why would you want him back?  :puke:

azhog10

It may not suck too bad. Notice we have a OLine recruit visitng campus this weekend that is committed to UF......he appears to be really close to his position coach. Could that position coach be our next OLINE coach if CBB is retained? Seems crazy and I know kids take visits all the time. But looking at his twitter he appears to really like Coach Davis.

WaltonCollege

Quote from: Hogimus Prime on November 01, 2017, 03:55:28 pm
He was a bad fit to begin with.  Wasn't a wow hire. Didn't seem like he belonged at Florida. Kinda dorky looking. Looks like he belongs in the Duggar family. Put Florida in the west and his record is like Sumlin's or Bert's.

Haha yes he does look exactly like dad Duggar

ChicoHog

Quote from: EastexHawg on November 01, 2017, 01:46:05 pm
He is 22-12.  An average record of 7-4 is not good enough at Florida, especially when they are 3-4 this year with their three wins coming against Tennessee, Kentucky, and Vanderbilt.

McElwain's record is very similar to Ron Zook's when Zook was fired.  He was 16-8 against a weak SEC East, too. 

Some programs have higher aspirations than others.  That is apparently difficult for some to understand.
Difference Ron Zook was a good recruiter and Meyer's teams showed that quickly.  McElwain was a poor recruiter relative to Muschamp, Meyer and Zook.  And they have not had a QB since Tebow.  Another reason meyer left. 

Pig Worshipper


Florida did just the right thing. McElwain was terrible as head coach of the Gators. Jeremy Foley made two awful choices in a row. The new AD better get it right. The natives are restless.

I wish Jeff Long would be as decisive and demanding as the Gators.

Martygit

As I understand it, there was a "morals" clause in his contract that voided his buyout (or substantially reduced it from the $12M) in the event he violated it.  I believe that they're going to use the not reporting the death threats to the administration as some sort of violation of that clause (endangering the safety of the players by not reporting threats) in order to resist payment of the buyout.
RIP OTR, REV

ipigsooie

Quote from: ChicoHog on November 01, 2017, 06:27:55 pm
Difference Ron Zook was a good recruiter and Meyer's teams showed that quickly.  McElwain was a poor recruiter relative to Muschamp, Meyer and Zook.  And they have not had a QB since Tebow.  Another reason meyer left.

They have had tons of qbs since Tebow left. How many 5 star kids have they had? They just haven't developed any of them. Look at Grier at WVU. Isnt he leading college football in touchdown passes? He was a guy that was at uf but left after he lost his job aftter he got hurt, UF gets the talent, they just stink at developing it.

ShadowHawg

Some just don't get it.

For the resources he has to work with at that program, he is a failure.  It's about how close to the job's potential are you coming.

Someone in this thread made the claim there had been a couple great seasons at Florida under him. Averaging 7 wins should barely keep you employed here much less at Florida where 7 wins is a huge disappointmant.

LZH

When he was hired, it went over (forgive me) like a lead Zeppelin for most of the fanbase down here. Very few people liked him from day one.

ChicoHog

Quote from: ipigsooie on November 01, 2017, 07:35:30 pm
They have had tons of qbs since Tebow left. How many 5 star kids have they had? They just haven't developed any of them. Look at Grier at WVU. Isnt he leading college football in touchdown passes? He was a guy that was at uf but left after he lost his job aftter he got hurt, UF gets the talent, they just stink at developing it.
I define good as successful in college.  Not in HS.  Yes, Grier was there and he did well until he got suspended for PEDs.  So he has been the only one since Tebow.  Jeff Driskell did well at  La Tech after he left also but did poorly at Gainesville.   

Dark Helmet Hog

With coaching pay on the rise everywhere, Florida may find their job isn't worth the stress and BS that comes with it.

hog.goblin

Quote from: ipigsooie on November 01, 2017, 01:54:14 pm
I appreciate the fact that mediocre isnt good enough at UF. I wish our standards were higher. You have to remember that Spurrier was there a long time and did pretty well. Spoiled a lot of fans. Zook had to follow that and we know how that turned out.  Then urban came along and had his success. They dont feel like they should be a 7 or 8 win team. Who can blame them?

They haven't been a 7 or 8 win team.  They won 10 and 9 and the east twice.  This year wasn't going as well but he's already fired.  Doesn't he have 9 guys suspended?

I'm fine if they fire him, but pay the man his money and go screw up some more on the next hire.

31to6

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 01, 2017, 12:23:34 pm
You have a coach who's had two great years out of three and they fire him. Presumably they fire him because they can't prove whether or not he received threats. Do they expect the person issuing the threat to step forward and admit to doing it? Suspect we haven't heard the rest of the story.
Just wait until Tenner uses the concussion controversy to weasel out of Butch's buyout.

I think it is no coincidence that this is all over the media just as they are firing him.

theFlyingHog

Quote from: MartinGit on November 01, 2017, 07:25:18 pm
As I understand it, there was a "morals" clause in his contract that voided his buyout (or substantially reduced it from the $12M) in the event he violated it.  I believe that they're going to use the not reporting the death threats to the administration as some sort of violation of that clause (endangering the safety of the players by not reporting threats) in order to resist payment of the buyout.
I understood it to be that there was no proof of any death threats, dude made it all up. He lied + AD wants him gone = goodbye

Spektre

Just look at the guy... he doesn't really scream "Florida," does He? This was a bad/rushed hire from the start. I think Muschamp got canned a little early, so they made that bed. If I was an up and coming coach, after seeing what happened with both Muschamp and Mac... I wouldn't go near Florida. They'll either settle or be forced to throw the bank at someone. If not, whoever takes it will have to have arrogance oozing from their ears.

31to6

Quote from: Spektre on November 01, 2017, 11:48:06 pm
Just look at the guy... he doesn't really scream "Florida," does He?
No doubt.

Can't imagine the guy sporting a stylish pair of jorts or dangling a tanned whiskey-tango chick in a string bikini on his arm.

Not Florida material at all!

The Pulse

The number of wins were good. two back to back SEC East wins was good, But, is a conjunction.

With the naked eye or even a mostly blind eye you can see this Florida team is a shell of its former self. yeah they won games and won the chance to get smashed in the Georgia dome.  But they sucked, we all know it. The East was crap. Florida would have been 4 or 5th in the West

There's no squawking from Florida fans about this firing. They welcome and love it. The only complaints you see are from the jealous sisters of the poor that hate all this competition. They want their 7 wins and trophies for everyone. This entire aggressive Florida narrative flies in the face of all that.