Connor Vanover w/Pro Skills (TX) 17U on Nike EYBL circuit ...

[AWHAWG]

I haven't posted for about a year but wanted to say this about Connor. Wouldn't  he  be good on special in bounds plays?  While he's working on his game, I really believe he would be a crowd favorite as a walk on, and would contribute as a role player.

[FineAsSwine]

I haven't posted for about a year but wanted to say this about Connor. Wouldn't  he  be good on special in bounds plays?  While he's working on his game, I really believe he would be a crowd favorite as a walk on, and would contribute as a role player.

Throw it up high where only he can get it and you could eliminate turnovers on in bounds plays in certain situations late in tight games but of course this would only work if he were a high percentage free throw shooter.

[AWHAWG]

True that.. it's about time  for us to have that under the radar player that blossoms, a Scottie Pippen, that has a growth spurt during  college, a Derrick Fisher, Monte Coleman, all underrated but had enough heart to grow into a superstar. Maybe Connor could be that player. I would love to see him in an Arkansas uniform. Let's get him to hill to the gym and run the daylights out of him on agility drills. Thousands of free throws. You can't coach height but you can teach fundamentals and a work ethic. The heart and desire is on him after that.

[mhuff]

You actually have it pegged on the agility drills and FTs. He will never reach his fullest potential unless these improve significantly. The good thing is that his coordination should have started catching up with his height this year. He is a work in progress. Aren't we all?

[AWHAWG]

I teach at an university and I see it every year. They come in as boys and girls and leave as men and women physically and mentally. We forget that they are still growing. He is worth taking at chance on. Look at his recent highlights and compare them with the older ones. You will notice that when he catches the ball he now turns and makes his move. His first step has gotten quicker and more if I can use the term more explosive. He needs to be put through a lot of squats and start making him jump. Make sure he has the right shoes to accommodate  his size to mitigate injury or stain. The competition in practice would make him better. After getting dunked on a few times he would not play soft and at least could provide the starters a break.  If there is a foul problem it would be good to have him sitting on the bench ready to go in when needed.

[ShadowHawg]

Genetics.

Conner is tall because of his genetics. He is lacking athleticism for the same reason.

His big brother was 6'10" and could barely dunk.

Vanover has consistently dropped in rankings as athleticism becomes a factor that can overcome height.

Watch his highlights. You will not see even one made in transition. Not offensive. Not defensive.

His current mobility level is the same as it was 2 years ago. It ain't going to suddenly change either.

So how does a guy that doesn't factor in high school level transition game going to be a factor in a high major program that is built around out transitioning its opponents?

[AWHAWG]

Crickets

[Pork Twain]

http://www.scout.com/player/192975-connor-vanover/recruiting?year=2017&s=75
The yellow check marks are the schools that have offered him. The ones without a check mark are the ones "recruiting" but have not offered. To show that in more detail: click the drop down arrow next to "info" on Connor's profile. Then click on "recruiting" and it shows the schools recruiting him and the ones with the check next to them are labeled as having offered

You literally just made something up out of thin air and stated it as fact. You're blatantly wrong about what those arrows mean. He may or may not have a "committable" offer, but that is definitely not an indicator

You are stating that as if it is surprising...  That is not unlike standing out in a tornado and saying, man it sure is windy.

[GuvHog]

Genetics.

Conner is tall because of his genetics. He is lacking athleticism for the same reason.

His big brother was 6'10" and could barely dunk.

Vanover has consistently dropped in rankings as athleticism becomes a factor that can overcome height.

Watch his highlights. You will not see even one made in transition. Not offensive. Not defensive.

His current mobility level is the same as it was 2 years ago. It ain't going to suddenly change either.

So how does a guy that doesn't factor in high school level transition game going to be a factor in a high major program that is built around out transitioning its opponents?

Very simple. Show me another 7'3" player who shoots the 3 pointer as well as he does going into his Senior year of High School. A good coach doesn't pass up a 4 star player that tall that can shoot the 3 pointer THAT well. True, he needs some developing and a good coach like Mike Anderson can get that done. Not all players come to college ready to make a serious statement like you seem to think. Some develop into great players after spending 4 years in college.

What you seem to forget is the Hogs will not always be able to play the fast paced up and down game. There are times that opponents will force the Hogs to slow it down and Connor would be valuable when that happens.

[ShadowHawg]

Very simple. Show me another 7'3" player who shoots the 3 pointer as well as he does going into his Senior year of High School. A good coach doesn't pass up a 4 star player that tall that can shoot the 3 pointer THAT well. True, he needs some developing and a good coach like Mike Anderson can get that done. Not all players come to college ready to make a serious statement like you seem to think. Some develop into great players after spending 4 years in college.

What you seem to forget is the Hogs will not always be able to play the fast paced up and down game. There are times that opponents will force the Hogs to slow it down and Connor would be valuable when that happens.

You don't understand basketball at all.

Players don't sit for games at a time and then come in guns a blazing.

Show me a transition highlight or beat your dead horse somewhere else.

[GuvHog]

You don't understand basketball at all.

Players don't sit for games at a time and then come in guns a blazing.

Show me a transition highlight or beat your dead horse somewhere else.

You're wrong. It's you who doesn't know basketball. Very few players come out of High School guns a blazin. Those that do are 5 star recruits or borderline high rated 4 star players. Many great players develop in college. One of the great NBA players was a virtual unknown coming out of high school, went to UCA and developed into a big time player. It has been done.

[Swinesong1]

For every 3 ptr this kid hits, he'll give up AT LEAST three times as much on defense.  Be it in transition or in half court.

[AlmaHog2011]

Vanover will probably go somewhere and become a very good player. Shocking the negativity on here about this young man.

[FineAsSwine]

You're wrong. It's you who doesn't know basketball. Very few players come out of High School guns a blazin. Those that do are 5 star recruits or borderline high rated 4 star players. Many great players develop in college. One of the great NBA players was a virtual unknown coming out of high school, went to UCA and developed into a big time player. It has been done.

I have never seen a power post move on offense or defense in his highlights. If he develops any of that in his game this year, I'll become a lot more invested in where he goes. Until then, I can't muster much enthusiasm. Nor should the Hogs, for that matter

[GuvHog]

Vanover will probably go somewhere and become a very good player. Shocking the negativity on here about this young man.

That's because there are too many "40 minutes of Hades" holdovers that can't accept the fact that basketball has changed and that style of play is gone forever. They still hang desperately on to the hope that Mike Anderson is going to bring it back and that isn't going to happen. Teams still fast break when they get the opportunity but the game is more of a technical X's and O's game than it was back then.  Connor can develop and become a strong contributor in todays game.

[rude1]

Genetics.

Conner is tall because of his genetics. He is lacking athleticism for the same reason.

His big brother was 6'10" and could barely dunk.

Vanover has consistently dropped in rankings as athleticism becomes a factor that can overcome height.

Watch his highlights. You will not see even one made in transition. Not offensive. Not defensive.

His current mobility level is the same as it was 2 years ago. It ain't going to suddenly change either.

So how does a guy that doesn't factor in high school level transition game going to be a factor in a high major program that is built around out transitioning its opponents?

I have stayed out of this discussion as I didn't want to appear to be piling on the kid, but this is absolutely right. It took me one video of seeing this kid attempt to run the court to know he will have to have remarkable athletic improvement for him to become a P5 player. If you haven't noticed they have reduced the shot clock so there's only so slow you can play. This shouting about his 3 pt. shooting is moot, in college he won't be able to just catch and shoot over the top of everyone, there's a plethora of 6'6"+ guys with wing spans who will get out and not only contest that shot but also block it, at the high major level.

[GuvHog]

I have stayed out of this discussion as I didn't want to appear to be piling on the kid, but this is absolutely right. It took me one video of seeing this kid attempt to run the court to know he will have to have remarkable athletic improvement for him to become a P5 player. If you haven't noticed they have reduced the shot clock so there's only so slow you can play. This shouting about his 3 pt. shooting is moot, in college he won't be able to just catch and shoot over the top of everyone, there's a plethora of 6'6"+ guys with wing spans who will get out and not only contest that shot but also block it, at the high major level.

It's my understanding that the shot clock is still at 30 seconds but resets to 20 seconds when a team inbounds the ball after a foul on their end of the court. Is that not correct??

[texas tush hog]

That's because there are too many "40 minutes of Hades" holdovers that can't accept the fact that basketball has changed and that style of play is gone forever. They still hang desperately on to the hope that Mike Anderson is going to bring it back and that isn't going to happen. Teams still fast break when they get the opportunity but the game is more of a technical X's and O's game than it was back then.  Connor can develop and become a strong contributor in todays game.

Personally I believe GUV may be right. After we lose six seniors next year I believe Mike will take a chance on a project who is a double legacy. Better than having a project like Jalen Harris sitting out a transfer year producing nothing, and promising little. Especially if we lose Ian Steere.

[ShadowHawg]

That's because there are too many "40 minutes of Hades" holdovers that can't accept the fact that basketball has changed and that style of play is gone forever. They still hang desperately on to the hope that Mike Anderson is going to bring it back and that isn't going to happen. Teams still fast break when they get the opportunity but the game is more of a technical X's and O's game than it was back then.  Connor can develop and become a strong contributor in todays game.

Bob Huggins retooled West Virginia to play the system that you claim no longer works. Perhaps you should give him a call and share your observations.

SMH

[gogamer]

That's because there are too many "40 minutes of Hades" holdovers that can't accept the fact that basketball has changed and that style of play is gone forever. They still hang desperately on to the hope that Mike Anderson is going to bring it back and that isn't going to happen. Teams still fast break when they get the opportunity but the game is more of a technical X's and O's game than it was back then.  Connor can develop and become a strong contributor in todays game.

Bob Huggins retooled West Virginia to play the system that you claim no longer works. Perhaps you should give him a call and share your observations.

SMH

Or better yet, go back and watch the UNC game from the point of 'down 17 in the first half to up 5 in the second' ..... That was truly the style you say is "gone forever."  Chaos wreaking havoc in the defensive lanes with hands and feet moving at a frantic pace.  There are several other instances from the past season where the hogs accomplished this style but only in spurts.  Bailey was the lead instigator against UNC.  With a full set of the right players, passion and sparks flying this well coached style is alive and well.

[mhuff]

I am pleased with the recruiting that has taken place this year. It also looks good in the upcoming years ; however, the defense was not good on a consistent basis until after the Missouri game. The defense has not been good On a consistent basis since CMA has been here except on limited occasions. Regardless, I like what I am seeing now. Well coached is not what I would use to describe our team. Perhaps the future will be better. As long as the recruiting continues and the defense is more consistent, I am onboard. The program is actually showing signs of being a program.

[gogamer]

I am pleased with the recruiting that has taken place this year. It also looks good in the upcoming years ; however, the defense was not good on a consistent basis until after the Missouri game. The defense has not been good On a consistent basis since CMA has been here except on limited occasions. Regardless, I like what I am seeing now. Well coached is not what I would use to describe our team. Perhaps the future will be better. As long as the recruiting continues and the defense is more consistent, I am onboard. The program is actually showing signs of being a program.

I would.....in fact I did!  Inconsistent yes because they don't have the full compliment of defensive minded players to make it work. The style lives. This coaching staff drives it.  Need the players to make it work consistently.

In my estimation we still have some holes that will keep us from being consistent next season. Like you I hope that piece of the puzzle keeps getting better.

Oh yeah back OT, I don't believe Conner can play this style.

[mhuff]

 Agree definitely because that style of ball got us to the top. If we aren't playing a defense that causes havoc, we aren't playing winning BB. Guv we don't want to walk the ball downcourt and run a half court game unless forced to do that. Also, we don't have a history of effectively doing that. We haven't had a defense because our press has been a poor resemblance of a press. If our defense will pick up, we will have very entertaining ball for the next four years or more.

If we didn't have the right people to run the press, that's a problem in recruiting. I believe we had the people to run a press, but they may not have been on the floor. The press has not been the only defensive problem. A lot of people were not guarding their man.

[GuvHog]

Agree definitely because that style of ball got us to the top. If we aren't playing a defense that causes havoc, we aren't playing winning BB. Guv we don't want to walk the ball downcourt and run a half court game unless forced to do that. Also, we don't have a history of effectively doing that. We haven't had a defense because our press has been a poor resemblance of a press. If our defense will pick up, we will have very entertaining ball for the next four years or more.

If we didn't have the right people to run the press, that's a problem in recruiting. I believe we had the people to run a press, but they may not have been on the floor. The press has not been the only defensive problem. A lot of people were not guarding their man.

You won't ever see a Mike Anderson team walk the ball down the court. Very few teams do that these days. When I stated that the modern college basketball game is more of a technical X's and O's game than it is a "40 minutes of Hades" game, I didn't mean they walk the ball up the court. I'm simply amazed that some have the mentality to believe that if a team isn't playing the frantic helter skelter up and down the court style of basketball, they are just walking the ball up the court. That's just plain silly. The game is still played at a quick pace to a degree but it's no where near as fast and frantic as the 40 minutes of Hades style of the 90's. Because of the rule changes (hand check rule) and the added time outs, "40 minutes of Hades" is gone, never to return.

[zebradynasty]

I think the point is that even though fewer teams are trying or can score 90 points a game, it's still a much faster pace than say the Eddie Sutton Era. Most of the major colleges move up down the floor pretty fast. If you can't transition from offense to defense fairly quickly...you're not going to fit in to most major D-1 programs. At this point I am not convinced that Vanover can transition full court fast enough that his height or 3 point shooting would be a advantage in a MA style offense or defense. Not saying he's not D-1 material just not a good fit for what MA does.

[mhuff]

Guv, I respect your supporting Connor ,but CMA wants to play a faster style of BB that requires a center that can run the floor. Other teams try to push the ball back down the floor when the  :puke:numbers are in their favor. Think of the games where we were beaten back down the floor. Kentucky comes to mind first of all. With Connor we would always be out numbered which the opposition would take advantage of his lack of speed. Any team who has the ability to beat the other team down the floor before the defense can set up is going to take advantage of the mismatches. There were many times the past few years that we either turned the ball over or got out rebounded or had a missed 3p shot and got beat down court many. Other times on an opponents made basket we walked the ball down the court ran a half court offense. Only when the play went against us would Connor be in play.


No, CMA will not "Walk the ball up the court" unless he or other coaches are forced to do so. Also, hand checking penalties have changed the game ,but pressure defense will always be a big part of BB and CMA's style. Arkansas will have the players to force turnovers in the next couple of years. Take the NC game. It was the pressure defense that put us ahead until Macon went down. The announcer, John Thompson, alluded to the commentary that we were playing "40 minutes of hell" defense. It is defense that will determine whether we go back to the top in the coming years. I believe we have incoming players to take care of the offense, defense, and increased rebounding. After next year FT shooting may be an area of needed improvement. That was certainly an area of strength this year.

[FineAsSwine]

Conner needs to take the first high mid-major offer he gets and get to work on his game. If he can improve his physicality and athleticism, maybe he gets a shot to impress in the Dleague or overseas in five years.

Right now he doesn't have what it takes to play high major ball. Period.

[mhuff]

Actually want Connor to walk on if it's in his heart and give it a shot. Otherwise he will have to find out if he has the ability to play at a higher level elsewhere

[GuvHog]

Guv, I respect your supporting Connor ,but CMA wants to play a faster style of BB that requires a center that can run the floor. Other teams try to push the ball back down the floor when the numbers are in their favor. Think of the games where we were beaten back down the floor. Kentucky comes to mind first of all. With Connor we would always be out numbered which the opposition would take advantage of his lack of speed. Any team who has the ability to beat the other team down the floor before the defense can set up is going to take advantage of the mismatches. There were many times the past few years that we either turned the ball over or got out rebounded or had a missed 3p shot and got beat down court many. Other times on an opponents made basket we walked the ball down the court ran a half court offense. Only when the play went against us would Connor be in play.

No, CMA will not "Walk the ball up the court" unless he or other coaches are forced to do so. Also, hand checking penalties has changed the game ,but pressure defense will always be a big part of BB and CMA's style. Arkansas will have the players to force turnovers in the next couple of years. Take the NC game. It was the pressure defense that put us ahead until Macon went down. The announcer, John Thompson, alluded to the commentary that we were playing "40 minutes of hell" defense. It is defense that will determine whether we go back to the top in the coming years. I believe we have incoming players to take care of the offense, defense, and increased rebounding. After next year FT shooting may be an area of needed improvement. That was certainly an area of strength this year.

You just need to let "40 minutes of Hades" go and accept that it's not coming back. I know you long for a return to Nolan's style of  basketball of the 90's but it isn't happening. What you saw in the North Carolina game was nothing more than very well executed full court pressure defense.

[GuvHog]

I think the point is that even though fewer teams are trying or can score 90 points a game, it's still a much faster pace than say the Eddie Sutton Era. Most of the major colleges move up down the floor pretty fast. If you can't transition from offense to defense fairly quickly...your not going to fit in to most major D-1 programs. At this point I am not convinced that Vanover can transition full court fast enough that his height or 3 point shooting would be a advantage in a MA style offense or defense. Not saying he's not D-1 material just not a good fit for what MA does.

I agree that it's a faster pace game than it was during Eddie Sutton's era at Arkansas but it's not as fast or hectic as it was during Nolan's tenure at Arkansas either, and won't ever be that way again.

[mhuff]

Guv, with all due respect I really don't think you are in a position to tell me what I need to do. I also don't agree with your analysis of where Razorback basketball is headed. Put whatever label you choose on it ,but our defense is about to pick up. Hide and watch. Then come back and tell me when I'm wrong. Especially in the next couple of years our offense will be much better because we will score more on the inside than in the past and also have 3p shooters.

[zebradynasty]

I agree that it's a faster pace game than it was during Eddie Sutton's era at Arkansas but it's not as fast or hectic as it was during Nolan's tenure at Arkansas either, and won't ever be that way again.

I think we get your point about the 40 minutes of L not coming back.  So instead of Arkansas averaging 90pts/game. MA wants to average around 80. Not a huge difference. In fact if the SEC refs stop officiating fouls as if the SEC was a Junior High girls league we could increase scoring a lot. Defensively MA still wants to play hectic the only problem is that it's hard to generate the 20 plus turnovers per game we did under Nolan as long as they call so many touch fouls.

Either way Vanover does NOT possess the skill set to play in a Nolan Richardson style system nor a Mike Anderson style system. Doesn't make him a bad player just no need in making a square peg fit a round hole!

[mhuff]

I agree that it's a faster pace game than it was during Eddie Sutton's era at Arkansas but it's not as fast or hectic as it was during Nolan's tenure at Arkansas either, and won't ever be that way again.

Guv, you're stretching it pal when you can tell what the future is going to be forever. You must be one of those " physics " ,but it's " intramural" to me.

[GuvHog]

Guv, you're stretching it pal when you can tell what the future is going to be forever. You must be one of those " physics " ,but it's " intramural" to me.

The "40 minutes of hades" style was meant to wear other teams down late in the game but with the hand checking rule and the increase in time outs per game, that's very difficult to do. Mike has adapted the philosophy that Nolan taught him to fit the modern style of basketball and as a result there will still be occasional spurts of Nolan's style mixed with modern day basketball but not for the whole 40 minutes like it used to be. I really like the blended style of play Mike uses and I believe he'll have success with it.

[AWHAWG]

So what's the consensus on CV? What king of program do most see him going? Power 5, Mid-Major? I think he'd be effective as a role player in the Big 10, but seems more likely he'll go to a smaller school and be more of an impact. Despite the reported early offers from Hogs and OM, not sure he'll end up in a P5.

Walk on at Arkansas become a fan favorite. Get the start his senior year in the NCAA Championship game.

[mhuff]

Walk on at Arkansas become a fan favorite. Get the start his senior year in the NCAA Championship game.

The stuff dreams are made of

[passinghog]

It's honestly not even about CV being to play in JUST our system, it's others too. It's obvious that the people in this thread that are adamant about us signing CV don't know much about the game of basketball that's played today. The majority of college coaches run almost nothing but ball screens in their half court sets; can you imagine having to watch our opponents constantly make him defend a high screen with his lack of lateral quickness and athleticism; talk about a nightmare. He'd be glued to the bench.

[Karma]

Walk on at Arkansas become a fan favorite. Get the start his senior year in the NCAA Championship game.

Why walk on when other good places are offering scholarships and obviously see a better role for him?

[Pork Twain]

It's honestly not even about CV being to play in JUST our system, it's others too. It's obvious that the people in this thread that are adamant about us signing CV don't know much about the game of basketball that's played today. The majority of college coaches run almost nothing but ball screens in their half court sets; can you imagine having to watch our opponents constantly make him defend a high screen with his lack of lateral quickness and athleticism; talk about a nightmare. He'd be glued to the bench.

Sadly someone has to point out the obvious to guv all the time and he is the self-professed, smartest basketball fan most of us will ever know

[GuvHog]

Sadly someone has to point out the obvious to guv all the time and he is the self-professed, smartest basketball fan most of us will ever know

Except in that case the "obvious" is wrong.

[Pork Twain]

Except in that case the "obvious" is wrong.

Case in point, Alan Bannister, Jason Jennings and Steven Hill say hi.  It takes more than being tall, to make an impact on a transition team like Arkansas.

[mhuff]

Guv,  Portis was a 4 that they tried to make a 5 out of him because of his height. A lot of his damage was done away from the basket. He was not a back to the basket type player.

[PonderinHog]

Case in point, Alan Bannister, Jason Jennings and Steven Hill say hi.  It takes more than being tall, to make an impact on a transition team like Arkansas.

Guv thinks he's going to become the next Shawn Bradley.

[mhuff]

I do like his shot. Someone has taught him well. When the ball came to him he kept it high and then shot. He kept it high ,so the little ants couldn't take it from him.

Also, he seems to be moving better. When I was in the ninth grade I grew 8 inches. I know of good players that grew 3 inches and it took them a couple of years to get their coordination. I played tennis and ran agility drills in hs. I regained coordination in two years. You just have to want it bad enough.

[mhuff]

Sorry double post

[yraciv]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjLM2NyXaC8

Some new Vanover highlights. Looks like more of same. Solid low post d, little low post offense, smooth jumper, and some nice rebounds with a lob play in there.

[FineAsSwine]

Conner is a good kid from a nice family. He will play D-1 basketball somewhere, but Arkansas is not a good fit. He will get stronger, but he will not suddenly become quick or fast. He will be a liability in a transition game as better athletes run past and around him. His size alone makes him a potential rim protector, especially as he gets stronger. No doubt he has upside with the size and touch he has, so look for him to have a nice college career somewhere. I certainly would not suggest that he walk on at Arkansas when he will have lots of opportunities elsewhere. Best of luck to Conner and his family as he continues to chase his dream.

/thread

[AlmaHog2011]

What ever Mike does will be alright with me. For discussion sign him redshirt him work him in the weight room. Not like Mike doesn't waste a schollie every year. Doubt he will ever become an all american but IMO with his height why not take a chance on a 7 ft plus kid. Probably wasting time with this thread if we win big the next couple years Mike will be on better prospects anyways.

[GuvHog]

Case in point, Alan Bannister, Jason Jennings and Steven Hill say hi.  It takes more than being tall, to make an impact on a transition team like Arkansas.

Steven Hill was pretty good. He was on a Hog team that went to the Big dance twice.

Jason Could have been a pretty good player if Nolan had given him the time of day. I was one of Nolan's biggest supporters until that press conference after his last lost to Kentucky but he didn't treat Jason right.

[NinoHogUNIA]

Steven Hill was pretty good. He was on a Hog team that went to the Big dance twice.

Jason Could have been a pretty good player if Nolan had given him the time of day. I was one of Nolan's biggest supporters until that press conference after his last lost to Kentucky but he didn't treat Jason right.

Where was the lie in what Nolan stated?