Redbird Rundown IX

[pigture perfect]

I just watch it, it very well could be Achilles. Mlb network says left ankle injury, but will be evaluated back in St. Lou.

[popcornhog]

I just watch it, it very well could be Achilles. Mlb network says left ankle injury, but will be evaluated back in St. Lou.

Achilles would be bad.

Honestly if it's a minor ankle injury and he has to miss a couple of starts it may be a good thing. But losing him for a significant stretch could be devastating. The Cubs, Reds, and Pirates could each compete for this division. We weren't ever going to just run away with it.

[ucahogfan]

Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 
  ·  41m 41 minutes ago   
Sources: Expectation is that #STLCards' Wainwright is done for season with Achilles injury. Has not yet undergone MRI.

Not looking good because I don't think Rosenthal would release anything like that unless he was 100% sure it was true.  It will test your pitching staff.

[dacskc]

@#$!!^&%##@%**

I just had "Wainwright on 15 day DL" show up on my phone and was somewhat optimistic. My morning is now ruined.

Maybe Garcia can be well enough to pitch soon (lololololololol)
I hope Marco Gonzalez is ready.

[popcornhog]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/12768740/adam-wainwright-st-louis-cardinals-goes-disabled-list-left-ankle-injury

Not sure that he's done for the season, but damn.

[jrulz83]

When I saw the replay immediately after I thought achilles, he didn't turn it. He tried to take off and it just gave out. Then I heard him talking about the back of his ankle in the postgame and he said something about it felt like he got hit by something.

Hopefully Marco Gonzales has his 7 day DL stint worked out and is ready to go. Jaime Garcia is supposedly a month away and we know his proclivity for building hope just to have an injury. Tyler Lyons or Tim Cooney anyone? A trade may be on the horizon later this season.

[McKdaddy]

 Achilles tears can be such freak, unpredictable things. 0therwise this injury to Waino would lead me to support the DH in the NL.   

[jrulz83]

Mozeliak on the injury:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/wainwright-has-achilles-injury/article_4b3f7f04-6276-5d0f-aaea-b27adc42e8e1.html

Not good.

[popcornhog]

Gonzalez will likely be the ultimate replacement.

God, I wish we still had Joe Kelly.

What's the story on Jaime Garcia? He sometimes looks good. Is he just done?

I hope they don't have to go out and make a trade.

[jrulz83]

Gonzalez will likely be the ultimate replacement.

God, I wish we still had Joe Kelly.

What's the story on Jaime Garcia? He sometimes looks good. Is he just done?

I hope they don't have to go out and make a trade.

Garcia had a 40 pitch bullpen session on Friday I think, he is scheduled to throw again tomorrow if I remember correctly. He was having a great spring and would have been the 5th starter, but when he threw 80+ pitches his arm didn't recover. He's trying to build back up and see what happens.

[popcornhog]

Garcia had a 40 pitch bullpen session on Friday I think, he is scheduled to throw again tomorrow if I remember correctly. He was having a great spring and would have been the 5th starter, but when he threw 80+ pitches his arm didn't recover. He's trying to build back up and see what happens.

Fingers crossed. Shelby would be nice to have right about now, too.

The good news is that this team really can score more runs than last year.

[jrulz83]

Fingers crossed. Shelby would be nice to have right about now, too.

The good news is that this team really can score more runs than last year.

I wonder if the Braves would rescind the deal? 

The Cardinals will be fine, they've done it without Wainwright before and they can do it again. Somebody will have to step up, I think it will be Marco Gonzales if he's not really injured. If it's not him, then Garcia (knock on wood) or a combination of the two.

If they can't do it I think a trade will have to happen. Maybe for Hamels, but I doubt it. Probably just an innings eater type guy.

[dacskc]

So this is going to be he first time in ten years or so where we have to go an entire season (basically) without either Chris Carpenter or Waino in the rotation. I feel so lost.

[ucahogfan]

I wonder if the Braves would rescind the deal? 

Well, let's see.  Do you think the Braves would give up a guy who is 3-0 with a 2.05 ERA with 4 years of team control for a guy (albeit the best defensive OF in the game) who will be an expensive FA after this season with a .608 OPS?

If they can't do it I think a trade will have to happen. Maybe for Hamels, but I doubt it. Probably just an innings eater type guy.

Do the Cards have the major asset that the Phillies would require for Hamels?  Based on mlb.com, the Cards top prospect is Stephen Piscotty at #88 which is way too low.  Maybe Martinez, but I think it is still up in the air if he can be a starter.

[jrulz83]

Well, let's see.  Do you think the Braves would give up a guy who is 3-0 with a 2.05 ERA with 4 years of team control for a guy (albeit the best defensive OF in the game) who will be an expensive FA after this season with a .608 OPS?

Shelby has always been a fast starter, talk to me in August. 

Do the Cards have the major asset that the Phillies would require for Hamels?  Based on mlb.com, the Cards top prospect is Stephen Piscotty at #88 which is way too low.  Maybe Martinez, but I think it is still up in the air if he can be a starter.

Hence my doubt.

[popcornhog]

I wonder if the Braves would rescind the deal? 

The Cardinals will be fine, they've done it without Wainwright before and they can do it again. Somebody will have to step up, I think it will be Marco Gonzales if he's not really injured. If it's not him, then Garcia (knock on wood) or a combination of the two.

If they can't do it I think a trade will have to happen. Maybe for Hamels, but I doubt it. Probably just an innings eater type guy.

The Phillies want too much for Hamels from what I've read.

It's gonna be Gonzolez and then we'll see from there.

If Jaime could stay healthy . . .

[popcornhog]

Well, let's see.  Do you think the Braves would give up a guy who is 3-0 with a 2.05 ERA with 4 years of team control for a guy (albeit the best defensive OF in the game) who will be an expensive FA after this season with a .608 OPS?
Do the Cards have the major asset that the Phillies would require for Hamels?  Based on mlb.com, the Cards top prospect is Stephen Piscotty at #88 which is way too low.  Maybe Martinez, but I think it is still up in the air if he can be a starter.

No way we give up Piscotty, he's underrated.

It would be some combination of Lyons and/or Bourjos and/or draft picks and/or non Piscotty prospects.

[jrulz83]

The Phillies want too much for Hamels from what I've read.

It's gonna be Gonzolez and then we'll see from there.

If Jaime could stay healthy . . .

I've understood the same thing about Hamels, Amaro Jr. wants to rebuild his whole farm system with one trade. He's pricing himself out of the market.

Now may have to call Piscotty up... Heyward left the game with an apparent leg injury.

What a disastrous series!!

[clutch]

The Phillies want too much for Hamels from what I've read.

It's gonna be Gonzolez and then we'll see from there.

If Jaime could stay healthy . . .

I'd like to see a breakdown of how much money Garcia has made per inning pitched over the past 4-5 years.

[jrulz83]

I'd like to see a breakdown of how much money Garcia has made per inning pitched over the past 4-5 years.

Signing him to an extension was still the right move.

[jrulz83]

Well, let's just hope the Cardinals all make it back to STL alive. 

[popcornhog]

Well, let's just hope the Cardinals all make it back to STL alive. 

No darn. Worst series victory ever.

I'm gonna have to stop going on road trips. Haha!

[ucahogfan]

I've understood the same thing about Hamels, Amaro Jr. wants to rebuild his whole farm system with one trade. He's pricing himself out of the market.

I lie awake wondering how Amaro still has a job.  He had a bunch of valuable assets and did not trade them.  The Phillies should have dismantled their roster back in 2012/3, but they didn't.  The Braves did this offseason what the Phillies should have done two years ago.

No way we give up Piscotty, he's underrated.

It would be some combination of Lyons and/or Bourjos and/or draft picks and/or non Piscotty prospects.

You would have to give up Piscotty to have any chance to landing Hamels.  Unless you have a deep system of top tier prospects like the Cubs/Bo Sox/Dodgers, it will take your prospect headlining the trade to land Hamels.

[popcornhog]

I lie awake wondering how Amaro still has a job.  He had a bunch of valuable assets and did not trade them.  The Phillies should have dismantled their roster back in 2012/3, but they didn't.  The Braves did this offseason what the Phillies should have done two years ago.
You would have to give up Piscotty to have any chance to landing Hamels.  Unless you have a deep system of top tier prospects like the Cubs/Bo Sox/Dodgers, it will take your prospect headlining the trade to land Hamels.

You may be right. In that case I'd support not going after Hamels.

The Cards starting rotation has been very good this far. I'd rather take the risk of missing our ace than giving up way too much for the next best available ace.

On the other hand, as good as the starters have been, there are certainly question marks around Wacha's longevity, Lackey's age, and Martinez's ability to consistently go deep.

None of those concerns have mattered to date, but it's early.

Martinez and Wacha have absolutely surpassed expectations to date.

[jrulz83]

I lie awake wondering how Amaro still has a job.  He had a bunch of valuable assets and did not trade them.  The Phillies should have dismantled their roster back in 2012/3, but they didn't.  The Braves did this offseason what the Phillies should have done two years ago.

I agree completely. If somebody trades for Hamels (which is highly unlikely) I think they're going to regret it in the long run.

But since this is a Cardinals thread, I'll say Bourjos for Hamels straight up is a deal Amaro is begging to make. 

[dacskc]

Anybody heard an update? I've been looking around Twitter and found one guy saying "out for the season" is a done deal. (a sports reporter from Colorado, IDK how he has the info before Bernie Miklasz, Derrick Goold, or Jennifer Langosch, so not sure if it's official or not. Although I'm sure that's wishful thinking on my part).

[pigture perfect]

I think Tyler Lyons will step it up a bit. He won't be Waino, but pretty good.

[popcornhog]

I think Tyler Lyons will step it up a bit. He won't be Waino, but pretty good.

You think Lyons get a shot before Gonzalez?

[pigture perfect]

Yeah, he has more ML experience. Gonzo would be a better reliever.

[jrulz83]

You think Lyons get a shot before Gonzalez?

Gonzalez is currently on the 7 day DL with a pectoral or shoulder (I've heard both). I think they'll give him a start or two at Memphis after he comes off of it before they commit to him because frankly I think once he gets the call he's the guy. Which I think leads to Lyons, Cooney, or Villanueva getting the shot Thursday. Of that list I'd prefer Lyons.

[bulldog04]

Players are never the same after that injury.  AW will be an average pitcher at best from now on.  With it being his landing leg will make it that more difficult.

[jrulz83]

Players are never the same after that injury.  AW will be an average pitcher at best from now on.  With it being his landing leg will make it that more difficult.

I would think the other leg would be worse, but I guess we'll know for sure in about a year. The Cardinals have proven in the past that they can win without him and they'll have to do it again.

[bulldog04]

I would think the other leg would be worse, but I guess we'll know for sure in about a year. The Cardinals have proven in the past that they can win without him and they'll have to do it again.

Mark Mulder (he might know a little something about it) said AWs injury would be more difficult to come back from

[jrulz83]

Mark Mulder (he might know a little something about it) said AWs injury would be more difficult to come back from

Okay, I guess Mulder obtained his MD recently, studied the MRI, and therefore knows the severity of everything?

I just know that John Mozeliak said that a full recovery was expected in 9-12 months. Maybe it does affect Wainwright, but I think Mozeliak knows a little bit more about the situation than Mark Mulder.

[pigture perfect]

Either Achilles is devastating for a pitcher to heal from. Whether it's the push foot or the landing foot, so much pressure is put on the area. If he rushes it back and re injures it, I would say his career is effectively over. Especially at his age.

[bulldog04]

Okay, I guess Mulder obtained his MD recently, studied the MRI, and therefore knows the severity of everything?

I just know that John Mozeliak said that a full recovery was expected in 9-12 months. Maybe it does affect Wainwright, but I think Mozeliak knows a little bit more about the situation than Mark Mulder.

Oh really? Maybe you forgot this happened to Mulder.  Yeah he will will recover but will not be the same pitcher.  Look at the history of pro athletes with torn Achilles' tendons.

[jrulz83]

Oh really? Maybe you forgot this happened to Mulder.  Yeah he will will recover but will not be the same pitcher.  Look at the history of pro athletes with torn Achilles' tendons.

So he should just retire now?

[clutch]

Oh really? Maybe you forgot this happened to Mulder.  Yeah he will will recover but will not be the same pitcher.  Look at the history of pro athletes with torn Achilles' tendons.

You may very well be right, but you say it as if it's a fact. Everyone heals differently. Only time will tell if wainwright is ever wainwright again.

[DeltaBoy]

Either Achilles is devastating for a pitcher to heal from. Whether it's the push foot or the landing foot, so much pressure is put on the area. If he rushes it back and re injures it, I would say his career is effectively over. Especially at his age.

Prayers sent that stinks for the Red Birds.

[popcornhog]

So he should just retire now?

I don't think anybody has suggested that. But it is likely that Wainwright won't ever be the same.

It really does suck, but it's reality. Mo's just giving you coach/GM/owner speak.

[jrulz83]

I don't think anybody has suggested that. But it is likely that Wainwright won't ever be the same.

It really does suck, but it's reality. Mo's just giving you coach/GM/owner speak.

I'm suggesting it. I heard Mark Mulder's interview. It's over, he should just quit now and save himself the trouble.

I love how people "know" the following things:

1) They know exactly what his injury looks like, I guess the MRI was well attended. Is every torn achilles the same?

2) They know exactly how well Wainwright will recover, I guess they have seen him do all of his rehab previously and know exactly how his body will react to it.

Look, I've been as critical as anybody about the Cardinals and their rosy injury reports, but we aren't done with step A of a process that has to go through the alphabet twice before we really know anything. Yet everyone is declaring Wainwright as never being the same.

I'm telling you all that there are way too many variables out there to make any conclusion about his viability as an MLB pitcher going forward. Evidently many have developed a very accurate system of knowing the future.

[clutch]

I'm suggesting it. I heard Mark Mulder's interview. It's over, he should just quit now and save himself the trouble.

I love how people "know" the following things:

1) They know exactly what his injury looks like, I guess the MRI was well attended. Is every torn achilles the same?

2) They know exactly how well Wainwright will recover, I guess they have seen him do all of his rehab previously and know exactly how his body will react to it.

Look, I've been as critical as anybody about the Cardinals and their rosy injury reports, but we aren't done with step A of a process that has to go through the alphabet twice before we really know anything. Yet everyone is declaring Wainwright as never being the same.

I'm telling you all that there are way too many variables out there to make any conclusion about his viability as an MLB pitcher going forward. Evidently many have developed a very accurate system of knowing the future.

I'm with you 100%. You never know how a player is going to recover. There are some instances where you see a very very severe injury and know that somebody will never be same again. This isn't one of them though.

[jrulz83]

Big time lineup shakeup:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/carpenter-to-hit-second-heyward-sixth/article_2036ebdd-3ca7-5499-b219-bc9473520691.html

1) Jay
2) Carpenter
3) Holliday
4) Adams
5) Peralta
6) Heyward
7) Molina
8] Wong

Interesting...

[bulldog04]

Evidently many have developed a very accurate system of knowing the future.

History has always been a good predictor of the future

[jrulz83]

History has always been a good predictor of the future

How are the Braves doing?

[bulldog04]

How are the Braves doing?

2nd in the division but this is the Cardinal thread so if you want to talk about the braves go to a different thread

[jrulz83]

2nd in the division but this is the Cardinal thread so if you want to talk about the braves go to a different thread

I would, but the Braves fan is in here trolling.....

[bulldog04]

I would, but the Braves fan is in here trolling.....

Nope I was providing insight on AWs injury from Mulder and you didn't like it because it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows

[jrulz83]

Nope I was providing insight on AWs injury from Mulder and you didn't like it because it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows

Negative, I'll cite your first post on the matter:

Players are never the same after that injury.  AW will be an average pitcher at best from now on.  With it being his landing leg will make it that more difficult.

Where is Mulder in that?

[bulldog04]

Negative, I'll cite your first post on the matter:

Where is Mulder in that?

And then I followed that up with what Mulder had said and you dismissed it because he's not a Dr.  Look your star pitcher his injured and he will more than likely never be the same.  Players have injuries and never return to the same from prior to the injury.  It's the way it is.