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Author Topic: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!  (Read 1937 times)

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The ColonelHog

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How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« on: July 16, 2017, 01:31:51 pm »

Currently, the Hogs 2018 class is ranked 41 nationally and 8th in the SEC by 247.  41 and 8 won't propel the program to national prominence.  What is the necessary recruiting rank the Hogs need to achieve to have a shot at rising above the middle tier of the SEC and burst on the national scene?
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2017, 01:39:20 pm »

Currently, the Hogs 2018 class is ranked 41 nationally and 8th in the SEC by 247.  41 and 8 won't propel the program to national prominence.  What is the necessary recruiting rank the Hogs need to achieve to have a shot at rising above the middle tier of the SEC and burst on the national scene?

Moving the football program to another state or finding a really great coach.  Arkansas WILL always recruit in the middle or lower tier of the SEC. In the west Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, and Auburn will always out recruit Arkansas.  In the East Georgia, Florida, and Tennessee will always out recruit Arkansas.  So that means we will always be at best 8th in the SEC overall.   
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PLHawg

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2017, 01:48:14 pm »

What I find a bit disturbing is we're only a few places ahead of Ole Miss, given the dark cloud hanging over their program.
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hogfanny

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2017, 02:18:54 pm »

What I find a bit disturbing is we're only a few places ahead of Ole Miss, given the dark cloud hanging over their program.
unfortunately the cloud is not all that dark . the penalty for cheating is not that bad. the reward is greater.
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chanhog1996

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2017, 03:03:59 pm »

I don't think you can expect a highly ranked class when we can only take 15-17 players and all the other programs are taking 20-25. 
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Bubba's Bruisers

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2017, 04:08:25 pm »

Currently, the Hogs 2018 class is ranked 41 nationally and 8th in the SEC by 247.  41 and 8 won't propel the program to national prominence.  What is the necessary recruiting rank the Hogs need to achieve to have a shot at rising above the middle tier of the SEC and burst on the national scene?

$$
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2017, 04:41:23 pm »

I don't think you can expect a highly ranked class when we can only take 15-17 players and all the other programs are taking 20-25. 

That's true. The Recruiting sites not only use their players evaluations but the number of players signed as well which at the very least, makes it a little less accurate in ranking classes.
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rolyat_2008

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2017, 05:07:25 pm »

The players on campus propel the program not arbitrary rankings and projections of HS kids especially when signing a class of only 15 or so max.
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Bubba's Bruisers

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2017, 07:00:50 pm »

The players on campus propel the program not arbitrary rankings and projections of HS kids especially when signing a class of only 15 or so max.

Then we aren't getting enough players good enough to propel the program.  Pretty much as the rankings have consistently predicted.  Nothing arbitrary about it.  There's certainly subjectivity within the rankings, but they're not arbitrary.
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ChicoHog

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2017, 07:12:28 pm »

Moving the football program to another state or finding a really great coach.  Arkansas WILL always recruit in the middle or lower tier of the SEC. In the west Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, and Auburn will always out recruit Arkansas.  In the East Georgia, Florida, and Tennessee will always out recruit Arkansas.  So that means we will always be at best 8th in the SEC overall.   
A really great coach/recruiter.  I think Saban is the best coach and recruiter combination and one of a select few that are tops at both.  IMO maybe the only one although I think Harbaugh is close.  I think Swinney, Fisher and Meyer are great recruiters with excellent staffs but not quite the same at the coaching part.  Petrino is a great coach but average recruiter at best.  Bielema is above average at both but not top notch at either.   Mullen is another example of a guy who I think is a good coach but average recruiter. Sumlin is the opposite.  Location is probably most important and then winning tradition, a great staff of recruiters/coaches and then actual coaching and development which is an area I think we do very well. 
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factchecker

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2017, 07:35:12 pm »

http://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Auburn is currently ranked #43
Alabama is currently ranked #54

It's early.  The lowest we've finished under Bielema is 29.  Here are our recruiting finishes since 2002:

2002: 25  http://247sports.com/Season/2002-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2003: 42  http://247sports.com/Season/2003-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2004: 24  http://247sports.com/Season/2004-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2005: 28  http://247sports.com/Season/2005-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2006: 25  http://247sports.com/Season/2006-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2007: 38  http://247sports.com/Season/2007-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Houston Nutt’s Average Recruiting Class(final 6 cycles):  30.3

2008: 27  http://247sports.com/Season/2008-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2009: 21  http://247sports.com/Season/2009-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2010: 41  http://247sports.com/Season/2010-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2011: 21  http://247sports.com/Season/2011-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2012: 28  http://247sports.com/Season/2012-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Bobby Petrino’s Average Recruiting Class: 27.6

2013: 23  http://247sports.com/Season/2013-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2014: 29  http://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2015: 23  http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2016: 26  http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2017: 28  http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Bret Bielema’s Average Recruiting Class: 25.8
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HOGINTENNESSEE

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2017, 07:53:17 pm »

It is early. But this class will be lower than normal just based on the very few commits it will have
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PLHawg

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2017, 09:50:55 pm »

What's the reason for only 15-17 spots
In this year's class?  Is it primarily low player turnover in the program? 
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onebadrubi

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2017, 09:56:44 pm »

What's the reason for only 15-17 spots
In this year's class?  Is it primarily low player turnover in the program?

Low player turnover and Bielemas fingerprint is to have a senior laden older team.  This is the first year we are really seeing that.  He's going to keep players longer and have more 5th year guys in his program than we are use to seeing.  This is only a bad thing when recruiting quantity
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870hogfan

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2017, 10:47:17 pm »

I like that he doesn't over sign.
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Boss Hog in the Arkansas

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2017, 07:50:33 am »

Low player turnover and Bielemas fingerprint is to have a senior laden older team.  This is the first year we are really seeing that.  He's going to keep players longer and have more 5th year guys in his program than we are use to seeing.  This is only a bad thing when recruiting quantity
That and the couple grey shirts/walkons that get awarded scholarships
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Boss Hog in the Arkansas

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2017, 08:02:38 am »

Currently, the Hogs 2018 class is ranked 41 nationally and 8th in the SEC by 247.  41 and 8 won't propel the program to national prominence.  What is the necessary recruiting rank the Hogs need to achieve to have a shot at rising above the middle tier of the SEC and burst on the national scene?
Lets put it in perspective. 2016 was our best recruiting class in quite some time. We finished 23rd in the country. Everyone in the west finished higher than us except Mississippi State. The problem is most of them finished far ahead of us. Bama, Auburn, and ole miss finished in the top 10 along with a few east teams. There were several other SEC teams between 10 and 20 including A&M at 18. That's the curve that were going against each Saturday. We're essentially bringing pocket knives to a gunfight
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PLHawg

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2017, 08:39:44 am »

So I guess the reason we only have 15-17 sports available this recruiting cycle is lack of player turnover?
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RazorPiggie

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2017, 08:58:51 am »

I like that he doesn't over sign.

Well you can only sign 25 now so.
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RazorPiggie

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2017, 08:59:11 am »

So I guess the reason we only have 15-17 sports available this recruiting cycle is lack of player turnover?

Correct
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redleg

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2017, 10:41:57 am »

Short answer: barely inside the Top 25...but only if they get the remaining players that they want, that are realistically going to pick the Hogs. You can forget about any 5* players. Hell, I guess we can forget about any in-state 3* DBs from Ashdown, too.
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GoHogzzGo

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2017, 12:25:07 pm »

Get ready to finish in the high 30s, low 40s due to small class size. Would be mid-high 20s as usual if we could sign a full class.
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EngrHog

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2017, 01:09:45 pm »

Low player turnover and Bielemas fingerprint is to have a senior laden older team.  This is the first year we are really seeing that.  He's going to keep players longer and have more 5th year guys in his program than we are use to seeing.  This is only a bad thing when recruiting quantity

I agree, we have to hope our 4-5 year guys can play better as a team versus the elite's 1-3 year guys. The jury is still out, but I have to believe this takes time to establish your program. I think it is a good strategy and am willing to give it a few more years to play out. Also, if you re-rank the top 50 teams by average ranking and not total points on 247 as it stands today, we are sitting at #20 (very close to LSU, A&M, Auburn)

1   Ohio State   95.32
2   Texas   92.54
3   Clemson   91.91
4   Miami   91.78
5   Washington   91.39
6   USC   91.33
7   Michigan   90.53
8   Notre Dame   90.05
9   Penn State   89.88
10   Nebraska   89.85
11   Florida State   89.72
12   Oregon   89.39
13   Tennessee   89.36
14   Oklahoma   88.98
15   Auburn   88.63
16   North Carolina   88.46
17   Texas A&M   88.32
18   LSU   88.14
19   TCU   87.17
20   Arkansas   87.03
21   Vanderbilt   86.79
22   UCLA   86.72
23   Kentucky   86.62
24   Maryland   86.02
25   South Carolina   85.77
26   Louisville   85.68
27   Baylor   85.5
28   Duke   85.5
29   Oklahoma State   85.47
30   Kansas   85.45
31   Virginia Tech   85.3
32   Mississippi State   85.2
33   Michigan State   85.19
34   Northwestern   85.09
35   Ole Miss   84.97
36   Pittsburgh   84.95
37   Wisconsin   84.73
38   N.C. State   84.59
39   Iowa   84.39
40   Colorado   84.11
41   Syracuse   84.1
42   Minnesota   84.05
43   Cincinnati   83.99
44   Boston College   83.57
45   Virginia   82.98
46   Rutgers   82.94
47   Wake Forest   82.78
48   Brigham Young   81.77
49   Purdue   81.6
50   Houston   81.35
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presidenthog

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2017, 01:43:53 pm »

How is bama not on your list. Hard to take it seriously without bama.
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gmarv

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2017, 01:52:45 pm »

I agree, we have to hope our 4-5 year guys can play better as a team versus the elite's 1-3 year guys. The jury is still out, but I have to believe this takes time to establish your program. I think it is a good strategy and am willing to give it a few more years to play out. Also, if you re-rank the top 50 teams by average ranking and not total points on 247 as it stands today, we are sitting at #20 (very close to LSU, A&M, Auburn)

1   Ohio State   95.32
2   Texas   92.54
3   Clemson   91.91
4   Miami   91.78
5   Washington   91.39
6   USC   91.33
7   Michigan   90.53
8   Notre Dame   90.05
9   Penn State   89.88
10   Nebraska   89.85
11   Florida State   89.72
12   Oregon   89.39
13   Tennessee   89.36
14   Oklahoma   88.98
15   Auburn   88.63
16   North Carolina   88.46
17   Texas A&M   88.32
18   LSU   88.14
19   TCU   87.17
20   Arkansas   87.03
21   Vanderbilt   86.79
22   UCLA   86.72
23   Kentucky   86.62
24   Maryland   86.02
25   South Carolina   85.77
26   Louisville   85.68
27   Baylor   85.5
28   Duke   85.5
29   Oklahoma State   85.47
30   Kansas   85.45
31   Virginia Tech   85.3
32   Mississippi State   85.2
33   Michigan State   85.19
34   Northwestern   85.09
35   Ole Miss   84.97
36   Pittsburgh   84.95
37   Wisconsin   84.73
38   N.C. State   84.59
39   Iowa   84.39
40   Colorado   84.11
41   Syracuse   84.1
42   Minnesota   84.05
43   Cincinnati   83.99
44   Boston College   83.57
45   Virginia   82.98
46   Rutgers   82.94
47   Wake Forest   82.78
48   Brigham Young   81.77
49   Purdue   81.6
50   Houston   81.35

Bama did,nt make the top 50 ??????
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onebadrubi

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2017, 01:58:00 pm »

Bama did,nt make the top 50 ??????

They recruit better than NFL teams with free agency.  So they couldn't be included.  Lol
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hawgfan4life

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2017, 02:11:52 pm »

Looking at the rankings pre-BB is a LOT misleading.  No previous coach since at least Hatfield has retained players at a very good level.  We took a lot of risky kids that simply never made it to campus or fizzled after one to two years.  There was zero chance of AR ever having to worry about the scholarship limits prior to recent years.  That is a testament to BB's recruiting quality kids that are buying into his system.  A few recruits can skew a class a lot higher, but those rankings are meaningless when those recruits that skewed the ranking are not a part of the program two years after the rankings.  Classes that rank in the mid to low 20s that stick around for 5 years are huge!  I wouldn't trade what we are doing not for what Ford, Nutt, and Petrino were doing for anything.  BB will have those magical classes occasionally like those coaches did.  The difference is he will have quality players above and below them to create a championship caliber team for a couple of years rather than a flashy one or two season team followed by a losing season.
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gmarv

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2017, 03:36:49 pm »

How is bama not on your list. Hard to take it seriously without bama.
somehow i missed your post must of been a timing thing, anyhow great minds or something like that.
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EngrHog

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2017, 10:31:27 pm »

How is bama not on your list. Hard to take it seriously without bama.

It is not my list. Purely based on the top 50 rated classes as currently listed on 247.
http://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Bama is currently 55th because they only have 6 commits. Their average ranking is pretty good at 91.63, which would place them top 10 but not to their usual top ranked class...yet. Obviously we all know that will change as they add commits. Georgia and Florida also don't land on the top 50 as it currently stands. Georgia is below us at 86.99 and Florida just above at 88.08.

All that is to point out we will have a lower ranked class if for no other reason than number of commits. But, in our system quality should count over quantity given the lower turnover we have and higher number of upperclassmen.
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HamSammich

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2017, 11:31:09 pm »

I don't really worry about rank. I'd rather see some underrecruited men child(s) get recruited that will be here 4 or 5 years. I think that is the secret to our success.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2017, 02:58:50 am »

I like that he doesn't over sign.

Everybody oversigns, some do so with reckless abandon.  CBB doesn't do that, his numbers seem to work out without forcing player departures.  However I know he has initiated conversations with a few players.  Whether or not you call that a forced departure or not is the question.  There is no question he HELPS players find a new home.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2017, 03:02:59 am »

Almost any school is going to take what they can sign numbers wise.  The only number that really matters if you care about rankings at all is the star avg, or the point system if you prefer.  That's what tells you the quality you are getting.

If you trust the rating systems at all.  LOL!
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Possible Oatmeal

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Re: How high can Hogs 2018 recruiting rise!
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2017, 04:50:38 pm »

One very common mistake I see over and over in these discussions has to do with misunderstanding ratings vs. rankings.  It happened in this thread, already, in fact.  Please, take the time to understand this.

Team A is *ranked* 25th in the recruiting rankings.
Team B is *ranked* 29th in the recruiting rankings.
Team C is *ranked 14th in the recruiting rankings.

True or false: Team A and B are closer together in recruiting success than Team A and C.

The correct answer is that there is not enough information to make that determination.  C might be 11 spots away from A while B is only 4 spots away from A, but that does not mean anything about how far apart the value that is being ranked is.

To put it in terms of height, for simplicity's sake.  Person A might be 6'0", person B might be 5'3" and person C might be 6'4".  A and C are closer together in height, but they may still be ranked the same was as teams A and C depending on the other teams.

Please, stop confusing far apart in rankings with far apart in quality.  It's simply not always true.
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