Cowboys vs Eagles

[5HOG5]

Cowboys 3 - Eagles 0   1st

[5HOG5]

Would love to see DMAC returning kicks, i miss that..

[bennyl08]

Early prognosis is hints that Dallas made the right move not signing Murray. Cowboys have a better run game right now than the Eagles. Wonder where Eastex is...

[DLUXHOG]

McFadden is being very productive this series...

[clutch]

2 yards on 13 carries for Murray. Ouch.

Also, I thought McFadden looked like the cowboys best back today while he was in.

[clutch]

Wow, every starting QB in the NFL today had more rushing yards than the Eagles.

[hog.goblin]

Early prognosis is hints that Dallas made the right move not signing Murray. Cowboys have a better run game right now than the Eagles. Wonder where Eastex is...

Murray is a good back, but he was the beneficiary of a great OL last year.  Today he found out what it was like to get hit the same time he was handed the ball, nearly every single carry.  Other than perhaps Barry Sanders, no one can succeed in those conditions.

[bennyl08]

Murray is a good back, but he was the beneficiary of a great OL last year.  Today he found out what it was like to get hit the same time he was handed the ball, nearly every single carry.  Other than perhaps Barry Sanders, no one can succeed in those conditions.

Lynch faces that a lot. It should also be noted that Murray did get some yards through the air. Murray is definitely an above average back in the NFL, but he isn't a guy to routinely turn nothing into something. He can do more with a solid hole than most backs with his size speed combo, but he isn't a guy you jeapordize the rest of your team to keep, especially as injury prone as he is.

[Hogarusa]

The Cowboys will certainly miss Murray now with Dez/Romo gone but the Cowboys made a proper decision in not overpaying him.  But the 3 headed monster at RB isn't looking good through 2 games and will be needed now more than ever.  Randle is avg 3.4 through and Dmac is at 2.9.  That won't cut it obviously

[Dr. Starcs]

Did east tex die or something?

[clutch]

The Cowboys will certainly miss Murray now with Dez/Romo gone but the Cowboys made a proper decision in not overpaying him.  But the 3 headed monster at RB isn't looking good through 2 games and will be needed now more than ever.  Randle is avg 3.4 through and Dmac is at 2.9.  That won't cut it obviously

I thought for the most part dmac looked better than randle last night. His UPC went down there at the end when they knew Dallas was doing nothing but running out the clock. The drive in the 3rd quarter where he came in and got a few consecutive carries was pretty nice.

[bennyl08]

Did east tex die or something?

I think the loss of Romo and Dez along with losing to the eagles may have done him in.

[clutch]

I think the loss of Romo and Dez along with losing to the eagles may have done him in.

They beat the Eagles

[bennyl08]

They beat the Eagles

Whoops, that was the whiskey talking. Thank you. Replace cowboys with hogs.

[clutch]

Whoops, that was the whiskey talking. Thank you. Replace cowboys with hogs.

Been there before.

[EastexHawg]

As a team the Cowboys are averaging 94 rush yards per game and 3.4 yards per carry.  Only four teams are averaging less, and the current Dallas backs are doing it behind the offensive line that all the board experts said made it so easy for Murray to lead the league by 400-500 yards last year.

Now...what is it that Eastex is supposed to show up and acknowledge?

[Richard_white]

They beat the Eagles

2-0

[bennyl08]

As a team the Cowboys are averaging 94 rush yards per game and 3.4 yards per carry.  Only four teams are averaging less, and the current Dallas backs are doing it behind the offensive line that all the board experts said made it so easy for Murray to lead the league by 400-500 yards last year.

Now...what is it that Eastex is supposed to show up and acknowledge?

Which team is at the bottom and who is their star RB? You know, the elite talent that was so good the team should mortgage their entire future for based off of one good season? The team who is averaging only 2.1 ypc with said player who it was said the team could not afford to lose even if they couldn't actually afford to pay him? Sure, it is easy to say that Cowboys rank close to the bottom. However, they are actually closer to being in the top half of yards per carry than they are to the bottom team.

This eagles team without Murray finished last regular season with exactly twice the yards per carry as they have now with Murray. The only running game difference is the loss of one mediocre guard, one very good guard, and one Lesean McCoy.

Cowboys are currently looking at a loss of about 4 carries per game so far, a bit over 1.2 ypc resulting in just over 50 yards fewer rushing yards per game without Murray so far. Eagles, on the other hand, are carrying the ball 13 times less per game so far than they did last year. They are earning 2.1 yards per carry less than they did last year, and have lost almost 90 rushing yards per game compared to last season.

Dallas is doing a lot better with no name runnings and without Murray than the Eagles are doing with big name Murray and without LeSean, both of whom earned similar contracts. Brandon Weedon had more rushing yards than Murray did.

The season is yet young, but through the first two games, Dallas is doing MUCH better for the money than Philly is.

EDIT: Of note, Philly wouldn't have needed to cut ties to their two guards, particularly Mathis if they didn't overpay Murray. In case you wanted to come and note how the only reason Murray isn't doing as well, and particularly the eagles aren't run blocking as well is due to their losses. Those losses are exactly what happens when you have big money players.

[EastexHawg]

Which team is at the bottom and who is their star RB? You know, the elite talent that was so good the team should mortgage their entire future for based off of one good season? The team who is averaging only 2.1 ypc with said player who it was said the team could not afford to lose even if they couldn't actually afford to pay him? Sure, it is easy to say that Cowboys rank close to the bottom.

What a bunch of irrelevant garbage from a "scientist".

The comparison isn't with what Murray is doing as an Eagle.  We can't say what the current crop of Cowboys running backs would do running in the Eagles offense because none of them have played there.

In our controlled experiment the constant is the Cowboys offensive line and the variables are the backs running behind that line.  Remember...the claim going into this year was that "any back can run behind the best line in football."  It wasn't that any back can run behind the Eagles' line.

Murray averaged about 5 yards per carry the last two years running behind Dallas' offensive line.  This year his replacements are averaging 3.4.  There's the result of your experiment.  The rest of your argument is nothing but noise.

[bennyl08]

What a bunch of irrelevant garbage from a "scientist".

The comparison isn't with what Murray is doing as an Eagle.  We can't say what the current crop of Cowboys running backs would do running in the Eagles offense because none of them have played there.

In our controlled experiment the constant is the Cowboys offensive line and the variables are the backs running behind that line.  Remember...the claim going into this year was that "any back can run behind the best line in football."  It wasn't that any back can run behind the Eagles' line.

Murray averaged about 5 yards per carry the last two years running behind Dallas' offensive line.  This year his replacements are averaging 3.4.  There's the result of your experiment.  The rest of your argument is nothing but noise.

Says the person who I have yet to see get any science argument correct. The argument was never that the replacement running backs would exactly duplicate what Murray did. You are building a straw man there. If you had asked me, would the next rb for the Cowboys average 5 yards a carry and lead the NFL in rushing, anybody would have said no, they won't. So you are crowing about something nobody ever disagreed with in the first place.

The question was, did the cowboys make the right decision by not (over) paying to keep Murray? To answer that, you have to look at how the cowboys have done without Murray and what Murray has done without the cowboys. Cowboys are still 2-0 and have a run game that is effective enough. They ran for 80 yards on the giants who avg through 2 games this season only 66 yards averaging 3.5 ypc when they give up 3.0. Vs the Eagles, they ran for 109 yards vs a team giving up 107 ypg, cowboys earning 3.3 ypg when the defense was only giving up 3.1. So, the cowboys run game is still doing just fine.

Ah, but Romo was sacked 3 times vs the eagles and hence got hurt. Clearly, the eagles didn't fear the cowboys run game and were just teeing off on Romo? Not exactly. The Eagles sacked Romo 7 times last year in spite of their run game which included Murray, so it would be very unreasonable to assume that he would not have faced the same pressure this year even with Murray. Romo was sacked 0 times in week 1 vs the giants. He was sacked twice in both games vs them last season.

As for why I bring up what Murray has done, it goes back to the actual question at hand? Was Murray worth getting paid more than LeSean McCoy? The two backs have very similar contracts, and Cowboys would have had to beat the eagle's contract to get Murray to stay. So, we've seen what the cowboys have done through 2 games this year, but do they have sellers remorse? Is Murray an inherently really good running back worth a big paycheck, or was he just in a really good situation in Dallas and does not intrinsically have the skill to merit such a contract? I've already discussed Murray in the previous post and how the eagles run game has suffered dramatically more than the cowboy's. Ryan Mallett has more rushing yards than Murray so far.

[Dr. Starcs]

And now without dez and romo, we may never really know the answer.

I said all along, the final verdict wouldn't be made until at least a couple of years.

[EastexHawg]

Says the person who I have yet to see get any science argument correct. The argument was never that the replacement running backs would exactly duplicate what Murray did. You are building a straw man there.

Speaking of straw men, Monsieur Curie, now you're throwing up "exactly duplicate what Murray did".  Who ever said that?  No one.  That said, there is a world of difference between 5 ypc and 3.4.  One is oustanding and the other is terrible.

[bennyl08]

Speaking of straw men, Monsieur Curie, now you're throwing up "exactly duplicate what Murray did".  Who ever said that?  No one.  That said, there is a world of difference between 5 ypc and 3.4.  One is oustanding and the other is terrible.

You never said the word exact, but yeah, based on what you call an experiment, anything less than exactly the same would be deemed a poor decision to let Murray walk. However, to please your highness, I'll rephrase. Show me posts were people said that the Cowboy's running backs would approximately duplicate what Murray did last season? The primary argument was that the Dallas made the right decision by not (over)paying Murray. Side arguments included that the OL was good enough to run block regardless of who was behind it, enough to give the cowboys an effective run game. Both games they did better than was previously allowed by their opponent. They are in the middle of the pack in rushing yards per game with Randle in the top half of backs in yards gained. So, Dallas's run game is still effective and the team that paid for Murray would be better off having Ryan Mallett be their starting running back right now.

Let's take this a step further. Let's project Randle's current stats out to a full season, and assume that Murray would replicate last seasons stats if he was still with the cowboys (ignoring that backs who pull of a big season always regress the next year). Murray gained 2261 yards last year, rushing and receiving. He is being paid 5 million this year. Projecting out Randle's stats, he would have 1376 total yards and is getting paid 585,000. If you want to add in McFaddens 1.15 million salary and 696 projected yards, then you would be spending nearly 5 times the money for the same amount of yards to keep Murray. Further, what other players would they have lost if they kept Murray and paid him a very high amount? Maybe they lose some defensive players which means that the team has to rely on the pass more since they can't stop the other team. When Pittsburg is having to pay Ben, Brown, and Bell, do you think they will be able to keep all 3 guys without jeopardizing the rest of the team?

[Dr. Starcs]

Benny, I don't always agree with your political views, but you are spot on with this analysis.

+1

[EastexHawg]

It sure would be nice to have a workhorse back who can carry the ball 30 times in a game now that Romo is out for eight weeks.  But...that's okay.  We'll just rush for 3 yards per carry with our running back by committee group, get to third down, and rely on Weeden to make plays in the passing game to keep the chains moving and put points on the board.

Should be fine until late November when Tony comes back...

[hog.goblin]

I hate the Cowboys, but a little play action pass on first down will be Weedens best friend.  I also think 2 games is too soon to declare the running game has failed.

That being said, I think not having Bryant and Witten is more harmful than not having Romo.  With both weapons Weeden is serviceable until Romo returns.

[EastexHawg]

With both weapons Weeden is serviceable until Romo returns.

Weeden has the lowest career passer rating of any QB in the NFL.  He's not serviceable, he is terrible.  Remember when he threw the TD pass against the Redskins last year when Romo went out with an injury and the refrain was, "Look, Weeden moved the ball better than Romo did!"

Then came the Arizona game, which he started and played all the way.  What a hapless, atrocious performance.

The Cowboys have two wins now.  They'll get no more than two more before Romo comes back in eight weeks unless the defense turns into the Steel Curtain and holds almost every team they play to single digits.

[EastexHawg]

Unless Matt Cassel, he of the 4th lowest career passer rating...but hey, if you're comparing that to the absolute worst it IS an improvement...steps in and surprises.

[hog.goblin]

You can't count Weedens time with Cleveland.  His time with the Cowboys on the field as been limited.  However, I just looked at your schedule over the next 4 weeks.  Ouch, best of luck.

At least you aren't starting Jimmy Clausen.

[bennyl08]

It sure would be nice to have a workhorse back who can carry the ball 30 times in a game now that Romo is out for eight weeks.  But...that's okay.  We'll just rush for 3 yards per carry with our running back by committee group, get to third down, and rely on Weeden to make plays in the passing game to keep the chains moving and put points on the board.

Should be fine until late November when Tony comes back...

It would but Murray already has a hamstring injury... Murray who gives McFadden a strong run for his money for least available running back...