Speed on D

[Pathological]

No, they did not show the same looks all night long.

Uh yeah, most, not all, but most of the night we gave them the same look on defense.

[razorbackkid]

It is troubling when one worries about 30 some odd seconds remaining even when you make the go ahead fieldgoal.

Unfortunately, I didn't have to endure that time span.

:razorback:

[bvillepig]

Does anyone remember the year we brought Louis Campbell in for the bowl game against Texas. We had stunk it up all year in the secondary but shut Texas with Sims and Applewhite down.

I do think the problem is scheme but I also think because of the way our offense is structured we play much better against run first teams. Thats what we get the most looks at in practice.

[JaketheSnake]

The commentators last night were calling out Josh Liddell on several plays on the terrible angles he was taking.  That is something you start learning in PeeWee football. 

[arkansasrazorback]

even if they throw it quick the D line has to do a better job of getting thier hands up to block passing lanes (they have said this all year) we are also dead last in the SEC in sacks, that is on the DL. spin it however you want.

And you can spin 123 out of 127 teams in passing yards allowed per game.  You think that is the Dline's fault.  haha.   Again a clue, get one.

[flagstaffhog]

Speed, or lack thereof,  will make one take bad angles....

[JaketheSnake]

Speed, or lack thereof,  will make one take bad angles....

Incorrect.  Angles are about discipline, not speed.  Having or lacking speed can change angles, but our players know their speed and they have faced the same type of speed as last night all season.

[GoHogs1091]

A good solution to the problem would be the following.

Defensive Line Coach     Eli Rasheed    Toledo's current Defensive Line Coach    Has coached in the State of Florida, so he probably has recruiting connections in Florida.

Secondary Coach     Tim Walton   NY Giants' current Secondary/Cornerbacks Coach     Was the Secondary Coach under Nick Saban when LSU won the BCS NC in 2003.  Walton has coached in the State of Florida, so he probably has recruiting connections in Florida.

Or

Secondary Coach     Ron Cooper     FIU's current Secondary Coach     Cooper coached LSU's Secondary from 2009-2011.  He coached LSU's CB Morris Claiborne, CB Patrick Peterson, and CB Tyrann Mathieu, all 3 won national awards under Cooper's coaching.  Cooper has been coaching in the State of Florida, so he probably has recruiting connections in Florida (most likely also has recruiting connections in Louisiana and South Carolina).

[Lake City Hog]

Wilson was rated a 5.5 (3*) #30 in the state of Alabama. Speed not listed by Rivals which usually means not real fast.

Ross was a 4* listed at 4.5/40, so again not a speed burner.

If our guys can't run with those 2 we are in really bad shape. I don't think a lack of speed is what is wrong with our secondary and I don't really believe that the scheme is that bad. I believe that the problem lies in our philosophy--- tackle them after the catch and don't give up the big play.

[Oklahawg]

Offense knows where they are going, defense does not. The defense has to respond to a break in the route. Quick feet become as valuable as raw speed (which only shows up if you are dealing with long routes or chasing down the ballcarrier).

From a totally different (non-sports) situation, a glitch in the system can bring down the entire system.

Potential glitches:
1. safeties who aren't fast enough or long enough to cover their side of the field
2. cornerbacks unable to recover and close gaps with receivers
3. raw speed of DBs to catch up to receivers
4. linebackers lacking coverage skills (could be speed, could be length, could be both)
5. DL unable to get a push to disrupt the pocket
6. cornerbacks with a lack of coverage skills (closing skills being separate)
7. lack of physicality by CBs, allowing WRs to get off the LOS without disruption.

I might be missing something, but that is a nice start.

Gaines is a run-first safety. Liddell plays well in coverage but seems prone to being sucked in on play-action. Ramirez likes to hit and may evolve into the hybrid LB role Richardson has played when we go to nickle sets against good run teams. Ramirez has serious skills but is not pass-first yet.

Collins is a good cover CB but isn't physical. Toliver is more physical but is a step slower than the other two. Dean is the best combination of physical and fast. Dalton will be a good one but is really green.

Richardson plays because he is good enough to play. A bump in talent might push him back to special teams. Might get that from Sykes and Pulley.

These are not DBs who are "ready to go", which almost always seems to describe what Saban gets at Bama.

Ellis is a step slow to cover RBs effectively. Greenlaw is fast enough but doesn't read things well yet. He's a freshman so that'll get better. Hard to justify talking about others. Williams will be lucky to return for next year (ugly injury on an ugly block from TN), maybe needing a medical redshirt, and then hoping he is able to regain speed. Eugene and Hackett are good physical players but we have found a distinct need to increase speed at LB.

The DL rotation keeps them fresh but none have shown out as both elite run and pass options. The rotations are not very well disguised attempts at scheming vs run or pass. Need a starting four to solidify who can play in any situation.

I think you can scheme everything until the DL if you get the DL situation fixed. I think we've seen the schemes in the back 7 not change precisely because they are trying to use the DL to trigger weaknesses from the offense.  I anticipate Ledbetter, Beanum, Wise and Agim to really address this next year. Hoping that we get the weight/strength/quickness formula right on the inside, too.

I really want ONE lockdown cover CB. Maybe that is Collins, but he does get thrown at a lot. He is not physical enough to disrupt at the LOS (he's pretty scrawny, to use an old term from my time in youth sports). And, Collins graduates soon. I'd like to think that Pulley and Dalton fit the bill, but need time to learn things.

Anyone else want to buy this?

[OLDHOG]

Whereas we need to get a little faster I don't that is as much a problem as the players are slow to read and react in coverage.  We seem a little lost and hesitant in coverage.

We don't play fast and we take some really terrible angles sometimes to the ball.

I think guys being a little more aggressive in coverage and with a little more understanding of coverage we will look much faster.

agree.

[TheJoeyBucketz]

I still think Henre Tolliver is gonna be special.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

Offense knows where they are going, defense does not. The defense has to respond to a break in the route. Quick feet become as valuable as raw speed (which only shows up if you are dealing with long routes or chasing down the ballcarrier).

From a totally different (non-sports) situation, a glitch in the system can bring down the entire system.

Potential glitches:
1. safeties who aren't fast enough or long enough to cover their side of the field
2. cornerbacks unable to recover and close gaps with receivers
3. raw speed of DBs to catch up to receivers
4. linebackers lacking coverage skills (could be speed, could be length, could be both)
5. DL unable to get a push to disrupt the pocket
6. cornerbacks with a lack of coverage skills (closing skills being separate)
7. lack of physicality by CBs, allowing WRs to get off the LOS without disruption.

I might be missing something, but that is a nice start.

Gaines is a run-first safety. Liddell plays well in coverage but seems prone to being sucked in on play-action. Ramirez likes to hit and may evolve into the hybrid LB role Richardson has played when we go to nickle sets against good run teams. Ramirez has serious skills but is not pass-first yet.

Collins is a good cover CB but isn't physical. Toliver is more physical but is a step slower than the other two. Dean is the best combination of physical and fast. Dalton will be a good one but is really green.

Richardson plays because he is good enough to play. A bump in talent might push him back to special teams. Might get that from Sykes and Pulley.

These are not DBs who are "ready to go", which almost always seems to describe what Saban gets at Bama.

Ellis is a step slow to cover RBs effectively. Greenlaw is fast enough but doesn't read things well yet. He's a freshman so that'll get better. Hard to justify talking about others. Williams will be lucky to return for next year (ugly injury on an ugly block from TN), maybe needing a medical redshirt, and then hoping he is able to regain speed. Eugene and Hackett are good physical players but we have found a distinct need to increase speed at LB.

The DL rotation keeps them fresh but none have shown out as both elite run and pass options. The rotations are not very well disguised attempts at scheming vs run or pass. Need a starting four to solidify who can play in any situation.

I think you can scheme everything until the DL if you get the DL situation fixed. I think we've seen the schemes in the back 7 not change precisely because they are trying to use the DL to trigger weaknesses from the offense.  I anticipate Ledbetter, Beanum, Wise and Agim to really address this next year. Hoping that we get the weight/strength/quickness formula right on the inside, too.

I really want ONE lockdown cover CB. Maybe that is Collins, but he does get thrown at a lot. He is not physical enough to disrupt at the LOS (he's pretty scrawny, to use an old term from my time in youth sports). And, Collins graduates soon. I'd like to think that Pulley and Dalton fit the bill, but need time to learn things.

Anyone else want to buy this?

Excellent analysis.

[presidenthog]

And you can spin 123 out of 127 teams in passing yards allowed per game.  You think that is the Dline's fault.  haha.   Again a clue, get one.

alright sir so are you suggesting that the other half of this, the special teams, is great?? you came in here just trying to say I'm an idiot and completely ignored the whole point of this. I'm not blaming our terrible pass d on the D line but somehow you took it that way. our D line is awful at rushing the passer (fact: we are dead last in sacks) and our special teams are awful  (that is also a fact) so get a clue and get some reading comprehension.


so back to the real point of this thread. rory seagrest is the guy who coaches 2 of the weakest parts of our team!! he isn't killing it in recruiting (btw clay Jennings the secondary coach is a much better recruiter and has a much better reputation as a damn fine coach, the thing you want to blame everything on) I do not see how rory stays much longer if he doesn't produce better sooner rather than later.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

I think the reason special teams under Petrino was so good was that we had a dedicated special teams coach. Granted, it was John L Smith, but it's the Peter principle; someone might have fantastic success at their current job but struggle at higher positions in the same field. I think CBB might want to look into having a dedicated special teams coach. It's not Long is going to be stingy with the money.

[Danny J]

Exactly. The d-line at Arkansas is great when they can be a factor. Against the run and against pro-style teams. But I don't care you who are, if the corners and linebackers allow for such a large cushion on slant routes, you aren't getting pressure on the QB.

Losing Mitchel, Washington, and Spaight really hurt us in pass coverage. Brooks Ellis is not, and never will be, a coverage linebacker. Greenlaw will get there. But the other guys that could be helping are hurt.

The secondary has been pretty disappointing as well. But they're overall a young squad. So idk. We'll see, I guess.

[presidenthog]

I think the reason special teams under Petrino was so good was that we had a dedicated special teams coach. Granted, it was John L Smith, but it's the Peter principle; someone might have fantastic success at their current job but struggle at higher positions in the same field. I think CBB might want to look into having a dedicated special teams coach. It's not Long is going to be stingy with the money.

joe adams adams and Hocker carried our special teams. Petrino was going after some Texas kicker and whiffed on him because he couldn't recruit and took Hocker as a back up option. the guy petrino was going after never amounted to anything. so our great special teams was luck from a kicking stand point.

[goneal]

Bottom line is, for the most part, defense boils down to quickness, speed and want to.

[Danny J]

joe adams adams and Hocker carried our special teams. Petrino was going after some Texas kicker and whiffed on him because he couldn't recruit and took Hocker as a back up option. the guy petrino was going after never amounted to anything. so our great special teams was luck from a kicking stand point.

AND because we had electrifying return guys both punts and kick offs. I think Reed will be that for us. Saw some glimpses last night. He is figuring it out. He is figuring everything out. Going to be a stud next year. He and Morgan and Cornelius will be guys that opposing D's must prepare and account for.

[westside_player]

Really?  You want BB to be more like Nutt?  You probably sent several people to the hospital with that post.

Yes.  Defensive high school talent is almost non existent in the state of Arkansas. Maybe we get one SEC caliber defender that would start for Alabama or LSU every 3 or 5 years. Nutt was good at getting small guys with heart or putting weight on guys to build a defense. I'm sure Beliema can do that too but it remains to be seen as he hasn't been here long enough. But for year 3 of Beliema we've taken a few steps back defensively.

[HogInFlorida]

Nobody can make a tackle! Or shed a block! It's happened loads of times. Someone will be in perfect position to make a tackle, and then they'll flail their arms at the ball carrier and then proceed to bounce right off of him. A freshman LB (Greenlaw) and a former walk on CB (Richardson) are our best tacklers on defense. That's not good. And it's on Robb Smith and the defensive coaches that technique not been taught well enough. Lack of talent is a problem for sure and we need better players but no 240lb linebacker should let that tiny 160lb running back from MSU ever break a tackle.

I don't know if Robb got lazy or whatever after he got his contract extension but almost everybody on defense that we had last year has regressed in every facet. Recruiting is far from the only issue.

[reddogjcss]

I have not thought about this but if Coach B thinks we need an upgrade there not a doubt he will and probably already working on it.
Coach B track record is really good on upgrades

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

On national signing day...we had best sign 4 good DB's that can cover routes & tackle really well.   It's pretty obvious that's been our weak point this year.

[Boles Hog]

I like a lot of the guys in the secondary...I really do, but we cannot get off blocks.  It looks like Dancing with the Stars or Couples Night at the skating rink whenever the receivers get us locked up.  From there, it just takes one bad angle for a play to go a LONG way.

[Southpointhog]

talent. It's the same coach you wanted to give a multi billion dollar life time contract to last year

This!!!!!!!

[Aporkalypse Now]

With almost the entire two deep coming back on D next year, is there any way they all get faster and learn to tackle before next September?  Is playing fast something coach Herb can train them for?

I posted this is in the other thread. It isn't about speed, or lack thereof. It's about not having a field general on the field on defense. You have to have that guy (usually the MLB) who can diagnose an offense and call out assignments presnap. If you don't have that, then your guys are reacting, rather than playing proactive defense. I know he'll only be a sophomore next year, but I'm wondering if Greenlaw can step into that roll next year. This year we have no one.

[Youngsta71701]

With almost the entire two deep coming back on D next year, is there any way they all get faster and learn to tackle before next September?  Is playing fast something coach Herb can train them for?

They need to work on their angles. All night long they were going to where the runner was instead of going to where he was going. They take horrible angles.