3 Stars can't compete in the SEC; that

[jcharkansas]

That was 20 years ago before every game was on TV, the explosion of the internet and social media and the huge population burst in the south.  You can say the same thing about Notre Dame and most every other northern school except Ohio st and maybe Michigan.

Either way it's been done, so you can get good players if you have great coaches, basically anywhere

[bigeasyhog]

I have asked this in another thread but will throw it out again to you -

Let's say you have a 5 star linebacker that has a choice to play for multi time national champs Bama .... or to live 20 minutes from the beach where there is no winter and the girls are in bikinis almost year round at Florida State .... or Arkansas where you can see the home of Walmart, Tyson's and eat at the Catfish Hole.

What 18 year old would ever choose Fayetteville over Florida State, Bama, etc.  Very, very few if they have those type options on the table.

What exact and specific angle can you share with that 18 year old to make his decision be Arkansas?

It doesn't matter how much we pay a coach to recruit ... THIS is the fundamental problem. This specific problem is bigger than people. It is an inherent factor of the schools location.  Fayetteville is lovely ... but compared to other options the top athletes have on the table .... not so much.

Figure out the answer to this problem and they will pay YOU multi millions to be a recruiter.  As of today NO ONE - not CBB, CPB, Nutt, ..... NO ONE has been able to get an answer to this other than spreading $$$$ under the table.

I will hang up and listen for your response on how to overcome the actual geographic limitations of the campus as opposed to other schools.

If you DO have an answer that is feasible then we can start on the challenge of recruiting in a state that only produces only  about 1/5th the division 1 talent in a year that other SINGLE CITIES do in other recruiting grounds.

Well, then by this logic, Norte Dame, Michigan, Ohio State , and Nebraska are screwed.

So, let me get this straight, you're suggesting that a recruit is going to place a premium a beaches and their house? Where they've spent the past eighteen years , doing the same tired old cycle? That young people don't like different scenery and the excitement that comes with that ? Seriously?

Let me ask you, how were McDonnells track recruiting classes ranked ? Oh, and before he was in Fayetteville how were we doing in that regard ? Or do you think his program success had anything to do with attracting track athletes that led to , what 40 national titles?

When Nolan was rollin, how well did he recruit from '90 - '95 ?  Why would those guys show up to Fayetteville?

Or, how about Van Horn in baseball? Give me his last eight recruiting class ratings.

[Gonzo]

There is a middle ground here. I agree it's highly unlikely Arkansas will ever recruit like Bama currently does, but don't think it's very fair to use that as the standard for just about any school. Bama is simply on a huge roll with a top potential program couple with arguably a once in a generation coach.

However, I do think a coach who can outperform his players' talent for few seasons can being to attract more top recruits from distance and could have the Hogs recruiting a level or two better than where they are now. Then that could start to feed itself, provided the coach could be kept in Fayetteville.

Expecting a string of top 5 classes at Arkansas is just certain disappointment IMO, heck ,maybe even expecting one. But I don't think getting the Hogs where they can land top 10-15 classes fairly consistently, with occasional better ones, is out of the question, even if it's not highly likely. Just takes getting the right guy to lead the ship. A Saban or a Meyer, etc could do that at Arkansas IMO. Of course Arkansas likely will never get that guy after it's obvious they're that guy. They just have to get lucky to find one who becomes that guy. One can always hope


Go Hogs! Beat Florida!

[orvillesghost]

Expecting a string of top 5 classes at Arkansas is just certain disappointment IMO, heck ,maybe even expecting one. But I don't think getting the Hogs where they can land top 10-15 classes fairly consistently, with occasional better ones, is out of the question, even if it's not highly likely. Just takes getting the right guy to lead the ship. A Saban or a Meyer, etc could do that at Arkansas IMO. Of course Arkansas likely will never get that guy after it's obvious they're that guy. They just have to get lucky to find one who becomes that guy. One can always hope




I like to believe what I read in Gonzo's post, and I too hope for it.

Whatever you feel about BP, he was an exceptional offensive coach yet he couldn't get the top 10 to 15 recruiting classes to Fayetteville which leads me to wonder if anyone ever can


I would love to be wrong on that though...

[Atlhogfan1]

Won't happen at Ark no matter coach.  Can't get 75-80% of your players out of state and expect sign top 10-15 classes on the regular to a location like Fay.

[rickm1976]

Multiple 5 Stars will never come to Arkansas no matter who the coach is, it's not gonna happen.

Never has, Never will, Period. It's Arkansas.

Years ago, we were able to draw our fair share of what would today be called 4 star and a few 5 star talent, mostly from Texas high schools all while keeping our noses relatively clean regarding NCAA recruiting rules.  Our average ranking year in and year out reflected that talent.  Back then, we competed with two schools (and some may argue three) for some of the best HS talent in this part of the country, and there was plenty of it to go around, and still is.  However, we are now in a different conference, and are competing with 5 times as many teams for what HS talent is available, all while maintaining a pretty good reputation for fair play.  I hate to admit it, but we may never be able to compete in this conference unless we are willing to bend and sometimes break NCAA recruiting rules (like a lot of SEC powerhouses).  It really makes me proud that the U of A has a reputation of having integrity and playing by the rules, but you know what? Losing really sucks!

[Dionysos25]

We've had good defenses here, we've had good offenses.. Just not at the same time .. Its gonna take an aligning of the stars and getting the right coaches in here all at the same time.

[Gonzo]

Years ago, we were able to draw our fair share of what would today be called 4 star and a few 5 star talent, mostly from Texas high schools all while keeping our noses relatively clean regarding NCAA recruiting rules.  Our average ranking year in and year out reflected that talent.  Back then, we competed with two schools (and some may argue three) for some of the best HS talent in this part of the country, and there was plenty of it to go around, and still is.  However, we are now in a different conference, and are competing with 5 times as many teams for what HS talent is available, all while maintaining a pretty good reputation for fair play.  I hate to admit it, but we may never be able to compete in this conference unless we are willing to bend and sometimes break NCAA recruiting rules (like a lot of SEC powerhouses).  It really makes me proud that the U of A has a reputation of having integrity and playing by the rules, but you know what? Losing really sucks!

The 85 limit had a lot to do with that too. Gone were the days teams (and Arkansas was one for awhile) had enough of an edge they could sign some players just to keep them off the rosters of the TCUs, SMUs, Rices, etc. The limits, and the exposure of almost every P5 game being on TV somewhere, along with tons of G5 games too, spreads the talent out much, much thinner.....except for Bama of course


Go Hogs! Beat Florida!

[jvanhorn]

Bull u get Saban or someone and they will come. Nebraska used to recruit very well.

Just exactly how do you plan to get Saban?  Same as you plan on getting those multiple 5 stars I guess.

[Rzback]

You are spot on about not being able to compete in the SEC upper tier year in and year out with 3 star players. We would be a better fit in the Big 12 or ACC but college football is a business and we sold our soul for $$$ when we joined the SEC.

[Nosboar Accubond]

When did he lose to Texas A&M?
When did he lose to MS State?

2-2 against LSU and 0-4 against Bama.

Never won the SEC obviously, but at least we were in contention of winning it his last 2 years here.

No Sumlin... No Dak...

[TNRazorbacker]

We are recruiting players easily good enough to compete better than what we saw last night.

No shame in getting beat by a good Auburn team on the road after the stretch we had. Getting curb stomped and being completely uncompetitive - absolutely no excuse.  Brett has recruited at or near top 25 since he's been here and we were dominated like a bad FCS team by an Auburn team that is good- not great.

There something obviously wrong with the approach right now and I'm not one who typically piles on the coaches.

[poloprince]

They can compete when put in the right situations imo.

[Rzback]

This is why i have said we need a coach that can make chicken salad out of chicken crap. Bielema isn't that type of coach.

Agree

[Snouty]

3 Star players worked fine for Petrino.

Hate to break this to you, but Bobby Petrino isn't coming back. 

[Little Lady Back]

slow players on defense cannot compete in this league

Exactly. We need to start recruiting more speed to compete in the SEC.

[dmaxfan]

Look,
1. You will never win a national championship without great recruiting.
2. You will never be able to recruit here until you win big games.
3. You will never win big games with a coach like beilema. He can't outscheme. You have to have a coach that can do a lot with a little. Unfortunately, that's not his style. There aren't a lot of coaches that can but there are a few.

[Razorback de Nosferatu]

Sometimes I really hate recruiting services.

CBB is recruiting on par with just about every other coach Arkansas has had since websites started telling fans how good the kids were.

Up until last night, even with a young and struggling O line, Arkansas's offense looked as good as I've seen it since the days of BP. 

The defense is the overwhelming problem. Smith seems to have them regressing as they age. And no doubt it isn't as talented as it should be.  But those are veteran guys, and with proper coaching, they should be competitive enough that this offense can win us some games.

Arkansas has been to Atlanta before. Logic says they can get there again.  Recruiting is important, but it's as much or more about coaching up and taking advantage of opportunities when they're there.

That defense isn't being coached up.  Year three under Smith and that's pretty evident.

[hobhog]

That was not a Jimmies and Joes issue. It was an Xs and Os issue. We were completely unprepared for a something everyone knew was coming.

[Razorback de Nosferatu]

That was not a Jimmies and Joes issue. It was an Xs and Os issue. We were completely unprepared for a something everyone knew was coming.

Exactly.
No doubt recruiting needs to improve in a couple of areas-- I've no idea how they're this thin at O line, for instance-- but whining about not having Bama style recruiting classes after last night's debacle....  come on.

[Atlhogfan1]

That was not a Jimmies and Joes issue. It was an Xs and Os issue. We were completely unprepared for a something everyone knew was coming.

Yes to last night although talent can make even off games better.  Last night was a preparation disaster and poor effort on field combined. 

[Atlhogfan1]

SECW program with non Texas B1G 12-like recruiting base.  Bad mix. 

[Bebop]

Vandy plays in the freaking EAST

Even so they still play against higher rated players. Coaching matters.

[OldArmy94]

I don't think recruits really care that much about location in the SEC. Yes, some will, and there is nothing you can do about it. But, if location was the most important thing, then Vandy would be on top year in and year out. Florida has the sun, surf and sand advantage, but that still doesn't reign supreme. Note, both of those teams are in the East, too.

No, what matters is giving the best kids a chance to shine on TV in front of their friends, family and the scouts. Give them a really nice facility to play and practice in, too. I honestly don't think most recruits could give 2 cents about the location of colleges, or at the least, it won't rank as far up on the list as you might think. Besides, look at the competition that Arkansas faces in the SEC West when it comes to location:

Oxford, Mississippi
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Starkville, Mississippi
Auburn, Alabama
Tuscaloosa, Alabama
College Station, Texas

Really, out of that list, why do any of those towns have a big advantage, if you subtract the university itself as a factor? Maybe only Baton Rouge, I would contend.

Find the right coach, and the kids will come. However, I still think BB is still the best coach for Arkansas and though it will probably take a while, he can ultimately build a consistently good team that will challenge for the SEC West title.

[WorfHog]

Kids these days want exposure and they want to win. You think any NFL scouts watched that beatdown last night and though any of our players are ready to play in the NFL? Do you think recruits (even committed ones) watched and thought "I can't wait til I'm on that sideline." You can sell development all day every day but it's painfully obvious that we're developing in the wrong direction.

[Atlhogfan1]

I don't think recruits really care that much about location in the SEC. Yes, some will, and there is nothing you can do about it. But, if location was the most important thing, then Vandy would be on top year in and year out. Florida has the sun, surf and sand advantage, but that still doesn't reign supreme. Note, both of those teams are in the East, too.

No, what matters is giving the best kids a chance to shine on TV in front of their friends, family and the scouts. Give them a really nice facility to play and practice in, too. I honestly don't think most recruits could give 2 cents about the location of colleges, or at the least, it won't rank as far up on the list as you might think. Besides, look at the competition that Arkansas faces in the SEC West when it comes to location:

Oxford, Mississippi
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Starkville, Mississippi
Auburn, Alabama
Tuscaloosa, Alabama
College Station, Texas

Really, out of that list, why do any of those towns have a big advantage, if you subtract the university itself as a factor? Maybe only Baton Rouge, I would contend.

Find the right coach, and the kids will come. However, I still think BB is still the best coach for Arkansas and though it will probably take a while, he can ultimately build a consistently good team that will challenge for the SEC West title.

BS- easily said by a fan of a program right outside of the Houston metro and in east Texas. 

[jgphillips3]

Jimmies and Joes are the difference between giving up 150 yards rushing versus 225 yards rushing.  Coaching is the difference between giving up 225 yards rushing and 500+.

[jcharkansas]

Just exactly how do you plan to get Saban?  Same as you plan on getting those multiple 5 stars I guess.

Didn't say we could get him, the question was, we would have the same players no matter who the coach. At that point I said if Saban was here we would be getting higher rated recruits period but no Saban ain't coming here, never thought or said he was.

[ATU HOG]

No Sumlin... No Dak...

True but he still beat them...

You play the cards you are dealt, can't help it Dak and Sumlin weren't there.

[Lake City Hog]

Guys, we have been competitive with similar or less talent than we have right now in MANY different seasons with different DC's. We have never had the overall talent of Bama, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, or Georgia or LSU or even ATM, but we have won our share.

Look at our overall record with Auburn, we are within what 3 or 4 games of dead even? How many top 5 classes have they had? top 10??

QUIT BLAMING THE PLAYERS!!!!!

[tophawg19]

hire Briles , he was pulling in 5 star kids to Baylor of all places . The type kids we are after aren't like the average kid. they aren't looking for a beach and fun. they are after the best chance to play in the NFL , a FUN system that showcases their abilities , A staff they truly believe in that has the history of getting it done . Future job opportunities , a chance to play early And a chance to play in big time games on a national Audience . Y'all are selling these kids intelligence far short . these are smart kids with families who want them in good future situations . They are looking for good educations and an area with major companies in case football doesn't work out . Almost every kid comes away shocked by the beauty of the area and facilities . And those saying Black kids don't like hunting and fishing don't know much about Southern black kids . especially over the last 20 years or so.

[LJHOG]

thank you!!.  , but he did get some talent to come on offense like Joe Adams et al. 

And the state has produced another Adams, Childs (the best of the bunch) and Wright since.  In fact, there hasn't been even one since then much less three.
And he didn't have Froholt playing in O line either.  That guy ain't even Sun Belt good.

[Lake City Hog]

Hmm, I think that Morgan and Reed are pretty good receivers. Henry was about as good at TE as any we have ever had. What about Cornelius?
Does it matter where they come from?

[gawntrail]

And this will help recruiting how exactly?

Because doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the alternative.

[RazorPiggie]

Hmm, I think that Morgan and Reed are pretty good receivers. Henry was about as good at TE as any we have ever had. What about Cornelius?
Does it matter where they come from?

Have you watched Reed play this year?

[ATU HOG]

KJ Hill could have been one of those guys.  Best in state receiver we've seen coming out of high school in a bit

[Atlhogfan1]

Guys, we have been competitive with similar or less talent than we have right now in MANY different seasons with different DC's. We have never had the overall talent of Bama, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, or Georgia or LSU or even ATM, but we have won our share.

Look at our overall record with Auburn, we are within what 3 or 4 games of dead even? How many top 5 classes have they had? top 10??

QUIT BLAMING THE PLAYERS!!!!!

AU has SEC Championships plus a NC.  It makes a difference.  When we have had our best teams with okay defenses, we haven't reached that level. 

Not blaming the players.