The GSD

[Con el Cerdos]

Tear it down.

The seats and rows are too close together. I'm sick of getting kneed in the back and having to straddle Mrs. Louise for 3 and half hours. 

Cotton, I had a good laugh reading your post.  Sounds a little kinky.

[oldhawg]

Pull the band-aid off slowly or rip it off?

Stop playing any games in Little Rock, deal with the backlash for another generation or two (it'll take that long, until folks like me who grew up with Razorback games in Little Rock are dead and gone), and it will no longer be an issue.

or, keep playing meaningless games there until total apathy sets in, and let folks keep arguing about the glorious past of War Memorial Stadium and the Razorback games there.

or, tear WMS down, build a meaningful memorial similar to the WWII War Memorial in D.C., and turn the surrounding area into youth soccer fields. 

One way or another, change is inevitable.

[TNRazorbacker]

I think I lend a unique perspective on the LR game. I was born and raised in Central Arkansas, came to U of A for college and have lived in NWA ever since. The LR game was a key part of my childhood and was how I was first exposed to the Hogs. I went to probably 20 games at WMS before I ever got the chance to see a game in Fayetteville. That's something that we shouldn't take away from Central Ark. Most in NWA don't realize the impact that the game in LR has. I'm 100% in favor of keeping a game there, even though it takes a game away from NWA, where I live. I want every kid in Central, Southern, and Eastern Arkansas to have access to see the Hogs play the way that I got to.

I agree and I think this is the biggest argument for playing there. The spectacle and grandeur that every kid in central Arkansas can come to associate with  Arkansas football. Its different when its your team, in your own back yard. Thats how a team comes to be a part of you.

Lots of people can make a game in LR that will never go to F'ville. This is a unique AR tradition we should continue to take advantage. From my standpoint the argument "nobody else does it" is just more reason to continue doing it. AR isn't everyone else and I like it that way.

[HogHomer]

I do.  I know.

I've been to many SEC stadiums.  All have had some level of renovation and some significant.  Vanderbilt's is actually a nice, clean little stadium as you know.  Not cramped. 

It isn't just the fan experience or just the player experience.  When you look at WMS in its current state, it is inferior in every area except the new press box. 

The Hogs are being forced there right now.  I would hope soon it will be attractive again for them to want to play that one game there.

Yeah first time I have gotten to go to WMS was a couple of years ago. On the outside, before you go in, it looks like a college football stadium. However when I stepped on the field first thought that came to my mind was high school. Then I went into the home locker room and was astonished how bad they are. It's lived past it's purpose but served it's purpose very well over the years. It's time to move forward.

[bphi11ips]

I do.  I know.

I've been to many SEC stadiums.  All have had some level of renovation and some significant.  Vanderbilt's is actually a nice, clean little stadium as you know.  Not cramped. 

It isn't just the fan experience or just the player experience.  When you look at WMS in its current state, it is inferior in every area except the new press box. 

The Hogs are being forced there right now.  I would hope soon it will be attractive again for them to want to play that one game there. 

The only reason you may have found Vandy's stadium not to be cramped is because it wasn't close to being full.  I've been there when it is full and it is just as cramped as WMS.  Vanderbilt's bleachers are identical to WMS's.  The concourses are cramped and the restrooms are old. That's not surprising given that the stadium was built in 1922.  It is no "cleaner" than WMS.  Both are old concrete and old steel.  Vandy's is just older.

If you want cramped go to Neyland.  It takes cramped to a higher level.   

[Cotton]

Cotton, I had a good laugh reading your post.  Sounds a little kinky.

Lol salud mi amigo

[Cotton]

I agree and I think this is the biggest argument for playing there. The spectacle and grandeur that every kid in central Arkansas can come to associate with  Arkansas football. Its different when its your team, in your own back yard. Thats how a team comes to be a part of you.

Lots of people can make a game in LR that will never go to F'ville. This is a unique AR tradition we should continue to take advantage. From my standpoint the argument "nobody else does it" is just more reason to continue doing it. AR isn't everyone else and I like it that way.

How does this benefit the program though?

Are you assuming these kids wouldn't be fans if they didn't get to watch Arkansas beat a crappy FCS team once a year in a dump of a stadium?

And we want to win and be successful like everybody else but we don't want to spend the money and make decisions that are best for the program like everybody else.

[bphi11ips]

Yeah first time I have gotten to go to WMS was a couple of years ago. On the outside, before you go in, it looks like a college football stadium. However when I stepped on the field first thought that came to my mind was high school. Then I went into the home locker room and was astonished how bad they are. It's lived past it's purpose but served it's purpose very well over the years. It's time to move forward.

The locker rooms are on the list of improvements and are an easy fix.  In the past athletes have not expected ornate locker rooms.  They only do now as the result of the recruiting wars.  But I will be the first to say they deserve them based upon the year-round effort they put in. 

Tommy Tubberville was correct when he said every situation is different.  He understands Arkansas and college football.  Just because our friends have all jumped off a bridge doesn't mean we should.   

[HogHomer]

The locker rooms are on the list of improvements and are an easy fix.  In the past athletes have not expected ornate locker rooms.  They only do now as the result of the recruiting wars.  But I will be the first to say they deserve them based upon the year-round effort they put in. 

Tommy Tubberville was correct when he said every situation is different.  He understands Arkansas and college football.  Just because our friends have all jumped off a bridge doesn't mean we should.

Would the money we are talking about to renovate a stadium, to play one game a year there, be better used to build up our high schools in Arkansas? Maybe even build up the football programs around the state.

Seems a better use of the money.

[Atlhogfan1]

Would the money we are talking about to renovate a stadium, to play one game a year there, be better used to build up our high schools in Arkansas? Maybe even build up the football programs around the state.

Seems a better use of the money.

You have to be able to suspend most reasoning including fiscal responsibility to get past the debate.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

Would the money we are talking about to renovate a stadium, to play one game a year there, be better used to build up our high schools in Arkansas? Maybe even build up the football programs around the state.

Seems a better use of the money.

Too many different decision makers and school districts to build up HS Football in one step. A real renovation of WMS might (or might not) keep UA games there but it would also help draw a few more events as well. But I'm not crossing my fingers.  UA still probably leaves if there's not enough money in it for them.

[HogHomer]

Too many different decision makers and school districts to build up HS Football in one step. A real renovation of WMS might (or might not) keep UA games there but it would also help draw a few more events as well. But I'm not crossing my fingers.  UA still probably leaves if there's not enough money in it for them.

It wouldn't fix it in one step no but $10 mil minimum ( the figure that's been through out there for the WMS renovation) would be a big step in the right direction. Rather than being forced to renovate a stadium for one football game a year. Yes there are other events there but they aren't going to pay $10 mil to make a concert more comfortable. It's all about Football.

The majority of the population need to get behind putting more money into our high school sports programs or academic programs instead of being divided on spending money to renovate a building that in 5 years will need a few more million for us to continue playing in it.

This is how as a state Arkansas can grow and the University as a program will benefit. Whether you're from NWA or Central Arkansas that is what should be at the forefront of a Hog fans mind.

[bphi11ips]

You have to be able to suspend most reasoning including fiscal responsibility to get past the debate.

I wonder how fiscally responsible it is for Nashville to spend $250M on a new soccer stadium.  Vote just passed.  I wondered how fiscally responsible it was for Nashville to spend $623M on a new convention center when the old one seemed to be just fine.  But since the Music City Center opened Nashville has been a boom town.  Just as the Razorbacks football team is the front porch of the university, the Music City Center, Bridgestone Arena, and Nissan Stadium are the front porches of Nashville.   

I used to think Little Rock was a city with big things in its future.  That was about 1980 when I was entering college majoring in business.  At the time, Atlanta was booming.  Nashville was not getting started.  Memphis was dead.  The Little Rock Port had been open about a decade, and local leaders were promoting it heavily.  Location was ideal at the intersection of major interstates.

Little Rock's problem with education is well-known and the primary reason that it has failed to attract businesses that need a well-educated workforce.  What is less discussed is that Little Rock's leadership, while being distracted by social and education issues, has failed to invest in its infrastructure.  WMS is a prime example of a vital asset that has been neglected.  While it has been a state owned and managed property, it is located in the heart of the city.  It is just one of many things that need to be fixed if Little Rock is to experience the growth that other similarly situated cities in the South have experienced in the last few decades.         

[TNRazorbacker]

How does this benefit the program though?

Are you assuming these kids wouldn't be fans if they didn't get to watch Arkansas beat a crappy FCS team once a year in a dump of a stadium?

And we want to win and be successful like everybody else but we don't want to spend the money and make decisions that are best for the program like everybody else.

God yes I'm absolutely saying that.  Many kids, who'd never get to see a game otherwise, are certainly more likely to become fans when they have the opportunity to see a Hog game closer to their homes as they are growing up.   It's really somewhat naive to assume otherwise. I do agree it would be better to schedule a more highly regarded game again though.

You call War Memorial a dump because you've had the good fortune to have an opportunity to see bigger and better.  Believe it or not, everyone is not that privileged.  War Memorial may very well be a dump, but it's the only show in town in Central Arkansas and the rest of the state.  When your a kid in that "dump" while it's full and rocking with fans screaming, Hog calling, wearing Hog hats and foam fingers it makes a grand impression.  You absolutely grow up thinking the Hogs are the greatest thing on earth because you've seen it and been a part of it.  The first two Hog games I ever saw was in WMS.  I'll never forget them. 

This benefits the program because it's an investment in the fan base of the primary population center of the state, and in a location more accessible to the majority of the state.   The UofA values the virtual monopoly it holds as the premier state university.  It needs all Arkansans to regard themselves as Hogs.  It's important that the university not take this support for granted.

[Cotton]

God yes I'm absolutely saying that.  Many kids, who'd never get to see a game otherwise, are certainly more likely to become fans when they have the opportunity to see a Hog game closer to their homes as they are growing up.   It's really somewhat naive to assume otherwise. I do agree it would be better to schedule a more highly regarded game again though.

You call War Memorial a dump because you've had the good fortune to have an opportunity to see bigger and better.  Believe it or not, everyone is not that privileged.  War Memorial may very well be a dump, but it's the only show in town in Central Arkansas and the rest of the state.  When your a kid in that "dump" while it's full and rocking with fans screaming, Hog calling, wearing Hog hats and foam fingers it makes a grand impression.  You absolutely grow up thinking the Hogs are the greatest thing on earth because you've seen it and been a part of it.  The first two Hog games I ever saw was in WMS.  I'll never forget them. 

This benefits the program because it's an investment in the fan base of the primary population center of the state, and in a location more accessible to the majority of the state.   The UofA values the virtual monopoly it holds as the premier state university.  It needs all Arkansans to regard themselves as Hogs.  It's important that the university not take this support for granted.

I don't think you can assume kids from central AR wouldn't be hog fans just because the Hogs don't play a game in WMS. Kids that grow up in New Orleans or Birmingham are LSU and Bama fans even though those schools don't come play there. There's just no argument to support your claim.

Cars are more reliable than they have ever been and get better gas mileage than ever.  There is a terrific interstate that takes you from Central AR to NWA in under 3 hours. 

I grew up going to games in WMS too.  In the 90s it was terrific.  Early 2000s it was below average but had the nostalgia factor. Now it sucks.

I also grew up driving up the pig trail too.  I take the interstate every time now cause it's nicer.

I know you liked riding in your Grandpa's Bronco back in 92, but grandpa drives an Escalade now.

[bphi11ips]

I don't think you can assume kids from central AR wouldn't be hog fans just because the Hogs don't play a game in WMS. Kids that grow up in New Orleans or Birmingham are LSU and Bama fans even though those schools don't come play there. There's just no argument to support your claim.

Cars are more reliable than they have ever been and get better gas mileage than ever.  There is a terrific interstate that takes you from Central AR to NWA in under 3 hours. 

I grew up going to games in WMS too.  In the 90s it was terrific.  Early 2000s it was below average but had the nostalgia factor. Now it sucks.

I also grew up driving up the pig trail too.  I take the interstate every time now cause it's nicer.

I know you liked riding in your Grandpa's Bronco back in 92, but grandpa drives an Escalade now.

Typical insulting Hogville nonsense. Like Tubberville said, every situation is different. People who are removed from the situation but have the background to understand the issues, like Tubberville, TNRazorbacker, and me, can look at the situation and communicate the reasons we believe Arkansas is different without resorting to insults.

[Atlhogfan1]

I wonder how fiscally responsible it is for Nashville to spend $250M on a new soccer stadium.  Vote just passed.  I wondered how fiscally responsible it was for Nashville to spend $623M on a new convention center when the old one seemed to be just fine.  But since the Music City Center opened Nashville has been a boom town.  Just as the Razorbacks football team is the front porch of the university, the Music City Center, Bridgestone Arena, and Nissan Stadium are the front porches of Nashville.   

I used to think Little Rock was a city with big things in its future.  That was about 1980 when I was entering college majoring in business.  At the time, Atlanta was booming.  Nashville was not getting started.  Memphis was dead.  The Little Rock Port had been open about a decade, and local leaders were promoting it heavily.  Location was ideal at the intersection of major interstates.

Little Rock's problem with education is well-known and the primary reason that it has failed to attract businesses that need a well-educated workforce.  What is less discussed is that Little Rock's leadership, while being distracted by social and education issues, has failed to invest in its infrastructure.  WMS is a prime example of a vital asset that has been neglected.  While it has been a state owned and managed property, it is located in the heart of the city.  It is just one of many things that need to be fixed if Little Rock is to experience the growth that other similarly situated cities in the South have experienced in the last few decades.       

No idea on the soccer stadium.  It is becoming a popular sport in our region especially as more transplants from the NE and upper Midwest invade us. 

Nashville was growing before the new CC.  It is also a tourist city and the CC was put downtown one block from the main attraction, across the street from Bridgestone and next door to the CMHOF.  Kind of a no brainer to build the new CC given the draw Nashville has and the huge events it hosts around country music and SEC basketball.  Plus the Preds and Titans.  Not a stretch for them to make great use of a facility like that downtown and keep it booked.  The CC is also downtown where people are wanting to move. 

WMS is different.  Its one draw is Arkansas football.  One game.  Maybe at most 2 although it wouldn't be every season if the stadium is renovated.  Nothing else is a guarantee booking for it.  Well at least not close to its capacity.  High school football.  Perhaps a HBCU game with UAPB.  Concerts could be booked in Spring and Summer.  It wouldn't be a draw for a neighborhood or city revitalization.  LR has helped itself a little with the River Market.  But it has no draw comparable to a Nashville or Atl. 

[Cotton]

Typical insulting Hogville nonsense. Like Tubberville said, every situation is different. People who are removed from the situation but have the background to understand the issues, like Tubberville, TNRazorbacker, and me, can look at the situation and communicate the reasons we believe Arkansas is different without resorting to insults.

Where was I being insulting? Every point I made is true.

Interesting only people who agree with your opinion are the ones that "understand the issues."

[ricepig]

Where was I being insulting? Every point I made is true.

Interesting only people who agree with your opinion are the ones that "understand the issues."

That is interesting.......

[hogsanity]

Where was I being insulting? Every point I made is true.

Interesting only people who agree with your opinion are the ones that "understand the issues."

The fact that we have posters that have confederate soldiers in the avatars, and quote them in their sig lines tells a lot about some of the group we are dealing with.

What is insulting is how many people in this state want to keep this state in 1855 or 1955. They will never rise above where they are now, and they resent anyone that might or does.  They hate change, and think anyone wanting to change things must have some nefarious reasoning.

We have a beautiful stadium on campus, a good road now leading to Fayetteville, hotels, restaurants, etc that just did not exist just a generation ago. There is no reason to play in LR except some people can not get over the fact that the central part of the state is not the part of the state that things revolve around now. 

[TNRazorbacker]

I don't think you can assume kids from central AR wouldn't be hog fans just because the Hogs don't play a game in WMS. Kids that grow up in New Orleans or Birmingham are LSU and Bama fans even though those schools don't come play there. There's just no argument to support your claim.

Cars are more reliable than they have ever been and get better gas mileage than ever.  There is a terrific interstate that takes you from Central AR to NWA in under 3 hours. 

I grew up going to games in WMS too.  In the 90s it was terrific.  Early 2000s it was below average but had the nostalgia factor. Now it sucks.

I also grew up driving up the pig trail too.  I take the interstate every time now cause it's nicer.

I know you liked riding in your Grandpa's Bronco back in 92, but grandpa drives an Escalade now.

When your a little kid grandpas Bronco feels like an Escalade.  It's only when we get older that we start noticing the difference.  The reality is that places and things like this don't usually change much, we do, and we start making our judgments.  I bet if you were to time warp back to the 90's as an adult your assessment of WMS wouldn't be much different than it is in the present.

[bphi11ips]

The fact that we have posters that have confederate soldiers in the avatars, and quote them in their sig lines tells a lot about some of the group we are dealing with.

What is insulting is how many people in this state want to keep this state in 1855 or 1955. They will never rise above where they are now, and they resent anyone that might or does.  They hate change, and think anyone wanting to change things must have some nefarious reasoning.

We have a beautiful stadium on campus, a good road now leading to Fayetteville, hotels, restaurants, etc that just did not exist just a generation ago. There is no reason to play in LR except some people can not get over the fact that the central part of the state is not the part of the state that things revolve around now. 

The Governor disagrees with you. 

[NaturalStateReb]

No idea on the soccer stadium.  It is becoming a popular sport in our region especially as more transplants from the NE and upper Midwest invade us. 

Nashville was growing before the new CC.  It is also a tourist city and the CC was put downtown one block from the main attraction, across the street from Bridgestone and next door to the CMHOF.  Kind of a no brainer to build the new CC given the draw Nashville has and the huge events it hosts around country music and SEC basketball.  Plus the Preds and Titans.  Not a stretch for them to make great use of a facility like that downtown and keep it booked.  The CC is also downtown where people are wanting to move. 

WMS is different.  Its one draw is Arkansas football.  One game.  Maybe at most 2 although it wouldn't be every season if the stadium is renovated.  Nothing else is a guarantee booking for it.  Well at least not close to its capacity.  High school football.  Perhaps a HBCU game with UAPB.  Concerts could be booked in Spring and Summer.  It wouldn't be a draw for a neighborhood or city revitalization.  LR has helped itself a little with the River Market.  But it has no draw comparable to a Nashville or Atl. 

Cosign, plus the Statehouse Convention Center renovation/expansion and Verizon Arena.  Little Rock gets its share of smaller to medium-sized conventions these days.

[Inhogswetrust]

The Money in LR built Dickey Stephens park and that Basketball Palace in NLR.  The Money is there via the State and the Money boys in the Rock.

Funny you say the money IN LR yet it's actually IN NLR...............You ever wonder why. Next time I see my sisters boss I'll ask him. He runs the Travelers and the ballpark. Heck she can tell you some interesting stories about that money in LR.

[hoglady]

Funny you say the money IN LR yet it's actually IN NLR...............You ever wonder why. Next time I see my sisters boss I'll ask him. He runs the Travelers and the ballpark. Heck she can tell you some interesting stories about that money in LR.

Little Rock has a pretty dysfunctional city government.
Patrick Henry Hays was a good mayor for NLR and they whipped Little Rock's butt in head to head match ups (Verizon / Dickey- Stephens).
Bass Pro Shop would be sitting at the North Hills exit if not for entanglement with the environmental issues / wetlands.

[ricepig]

Little Rock has a pretty dysfunctional city government.
Patrick Henry Hays was a good mayor for NLR and they whipped Little Rock's butt in head to head match ups (Verizon / Dickey- Stephens).
Bass Pro Shop would be sitting at the North Hills exit if not for entanglement with the environmental issues / wetlands.

Probably wouldn't have been finished without that issue, it was better off in other hands.

[PORKULATOR]

I thought this was finally over, and didn't think we would ever play in WMS again. But part of the context of Long being "out of touch" with what it means to be a Razorback was his campaign to end playing in WMS. Did you notice the articles yesterday that mentioned Long going to board members about wanting to end playing in LR and the push back he got, even from the governor? The same money that is paying to get rid of him, to get rid of Bielema, and paying for the next coach also seems to want to play in WMS. It doesn't get more "Good Ole Boy" than playing in the Rock, so we better get used to it.

So Long went to bat for all the fans that think WMS games are crap and it helped dismiss him. Some of you owe him a thank you.

[hoglady]

Probably wouldn't have been finished without that issue, it was better off in other hands.

Oh - I'm happy where it's at as it's about 5 minutes from my house.
Tommy Hodges has done a great job with getting Bass Pro, The Outlets and all the development around it.
I'm guessing Bass Pro is pretty pleased with their eventual location in Central Arkansas.

[Sweet Feet]

Just keep the Hogs in LR and give UALR a football team. The hogs have been ass the past 5 years, which is why the attendance in LR has been awful. the crappy attendance in Fayetteville the past 4 games there including today should tell the story. Let them stink it up on the hill and divide the state.

[ricepig]

Just keep the Hogs in LR and give UALR a football team. The hogs have been ass the past 5 years, which is why the attendance in LR has been awful. the crappy attendance in Fayetteville the past 4 games there including today should tell the story. Let them stink it up on the hill and divide the state.

Thanks, you seemed more concerned about LR, than the Razorbacks. How are we going to keep the Hogs in LR and play all the games in Fayetteville?