About Recruiting.

[majp51]

So I'm using Scout.com as my reference point as they have reference material all the way back to 2002
=======================.
2002 - 25th
2003 - 23rd
2004 - 27th
2005 - 32nd
2006 - 30th
2007 - 34th
2008 - 26th
2009 - 21st
2010 - 37th
2011 - 17th
2012 - 19th
2013 - 33rd
2014 - 33rd
2015 - 21st
2016 - 32nd
2017 (projected) - 25th

==============================================

Now what that shows is remarkable consistency. Regardless of the coach we seem pretty much average the mid 20's. The complain to both HDN and BP is that they weren't great recruiters but Bielema is proving to be approximately as bad ad them.

HDN went on to Coach Ole Miss, and his recruiting was slightly better as compared to Arkansas for 2 of the 4 years there, but still nothing special.

BP had coached at Louisville prior and has gone on to coach as WKU and Louisville after , and has not achieved a recruiting ranking better than the Razorbacks in the same year , though to be fair this year could finally  break that streak.

CBB recruiting wasn't any better at Wisconsin (and often was much worse in terms of rankings)

So basically at this point we have 3 coaches all of home have pretty close to the same recruiting ranking each year. JLS doesn't count, he didn't do much anything in recruiting either.

Now I'm sure everyone has heard about how recruiting to Fayetteville is impossible. Goodness knows I see that mantra here by the "program backers" all the time. The thing to keep in mind is that all coaches seem to do equally here. That means that either UofA is some sort of recruiting Bermuda Triangle, where you can never recruit great but will always be above average, or that Arkansas has not had a very good reciting program over the past 15 years.

I'm an optimist, so I don't buy the recruiting Bermuda Triangle, which means we haven't gotten a good recruiter since before the Houston Nutt era.


Does that mean I think we just need a great recruiter? Well maybe, but CBB would either need to be replaced, or CBB would first have to realize he isn't evaluating or recruiting Defense correctly.

[LJHOG]

You ever consider all those coaches took the best player available to them.  Let's face it.  We get the players Bama, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida, aTm, etc DON'T want.
Ain't no "coachin' 'em up" gonna make up for that.

[orvillesghost]

This is exactly why I think no matter who the coach is, we will usually be a seven to eight win team most years...

[ricepig]

You ever consider all those coaches took the best player available to them.  Let's face it.  We get the players Bama, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida, aTm, etc DON'T want.
Ain't no "coachin' 'em up" gonna make up for that.

There's an occasional one who chooses us over them, but it retrospect, yes, we get the best we can get.

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

FYI scout sucks

[ricepig]

FYI scout sucks

I thought that goes without saying.

[WriterWrong]

If you want to say Bielema isn't good enough to win here, just come out and say it. No use in beating around the bush to suggest he isn't a good enough recruiter. If you don't think we can win with him (aka recruit good enough players), just say it.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

You ever consider all those coaches took the best player available to them.  Let's face it.  We get the players Bama, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida, aTm, etc DON'T want.
Ain't no "coachin' 'em up" gonna make up for that.

Yep, and It's been this way for a while.  I suspect it became a glaring reality back in the early to mid 70's when CFB essentially became fully integrated.  I've always assumed this was THE reason JFB got out of coaching.  He knew things were about to go down hill.

[OutlawHawg]

Bret can scout talent though and develop players. In fact he's so good at it most years we don't even use all 25 scholarships.

[Oklahawg]

First, I see a structural difference in HDN, Bobby, and CBB. I find CBB to be more detail-oriented in recruiting and doesn't mind recruiting at all.

He is not afraid of the big dogs. Maybe that is part of the problem - we chase too many elite players we don't land and thus waste a lot of valuable recruiting energy.

We do not know how poisonous things became under Bobby.

If you want to cut through to the chase on recruiting, I suggest you track the 4-stars from in-state and out-of-state. Then, assign them some sort of performance eval that is also on a 5-star scale.

Brooks Ellis is a great Razorback, a fine young man, an able scholar and someone I am proud to support. As a player he is smart, disciplined, strong, and gives great effort. Yet, despite being a 4-star recruit, he can't run down SEC TEs and RBs in pass coverage. It remains a structural weakness of our defense.

THAT IS NOTHING NEW! UA has never had appropriately sized LBs who could also tackle and run (and some couldn't do the smarts, disciplined, strong, and effort things either). Not during the SEC.

Two come to mind: Spaight and Fairchild. Both from LR and both who spent only two years at UA. Spaight made the most of his time, Fairchild did not. We do not recruit these type of LBs because they are very rare. They have to land in our lap or be in-staters.

Speaking of in-staters, how about three non-travel squad guys (I think) who are 4-stars: O'Grady, Gragg, and Bell. All sitting at TE now, but unable to beat out a walk-on, Antwine. Think those stars are inflated? Think CBB could have risked not offering a 4-star kid from Arkansas, for fear they go elsewhere (all three had quite a few offers, I think) and succeed?

Three whiffs in one class. Ouch. Thank goodness Cantrell is such a stud. The true frosh looks promising also, and it is a shame he couldn't redshirt. Not a 4-star guy, either one of them, but Cantrell, for sure, looks like a 4-star contributor. Thankfully.

Arkansas' best DB got hurt, we were told - Kevin Richardson. A walk-on. From Arkansas. Tolliver, Pulley, and Collins have all had good moments this year. They can't play safety, though. And, they are not capable of playing every down. They are good enough, I suspect, to be in the rotation but they need an anchor CB around them. Chris Houston (undersized out of HS, thus he didn't get offers from UT - he was from Austin - or OU or A&M). Michael Grant (who was denied admission to UGA and Richt helped him land at UA where he could also run track). Matteral Richardson (two and a half years of fans cursing at him before he finally settled in and became a solid CB). Tevin Mitchell (only matured as as nickel back, and is the reason we are specifically recruiting nickel backs - Tolliver first, and now Jordan Curtis from OK).

What we are missing is what many on here didn't get when we were recruiting them: Ross Rasner, especially, and Jerico Nelson. Both were undersized but could run. Both loved to hit. Nelson was headed to Purdue to be a RB, I think, when we flipped him (shouldn't ever be that tough for a LA kid to stay in the SEC > Purdue). We hit paydirt with a similar undersized player who played bigger and loved to hit, Sam Olajabutu.

Problem is, those players are everywhere - which one (maybe one out of 10) will develop? If you aren't careful, you look like Texas Tech or Kansas on defense. We at least LOOK the part. lol

What you have to hope for is the eventual elite class from in-state to reappear. And, for a few of these relationships at big-time programs pays off (Dallas Bishop Dunne is a possibility) and you get a pipeline. And, you swing for the fences and connect on a player or two that honestly we whiffed on the last two years (going to happen given the circumstances). And, you do find a diamond in the rough early and they explode on the scene but you have them locked down (we all hope the freshman QB is that player). And, you continue the slow-build of the program. Long time coming, and many can't stomach that.

Tough words to write after the ass-whipping we took at the hands of the hated of all hated enemies, Auburn.

---

Or, maybe, you pull all redshirts off of players and say, 'go earn playing time.' Create a hunger now that salvages the season (8-5, 9-4 is not totally unreasonable is it?) and worry about burning the redshirts in a year or two.

[LJHOG]

If you want to say Bielema isn't good enough to win here, just come out and say it. No use in beating around the bush to suggest he isn't a good enough recruiter. If you don't think we can win with him (aka recruit good enough players), just say it.

No coach can recruit well enough here to win consistently in the SEC given our present levels of expenditures.

[jackflash]

I look a several recruiting sites and were not in the running for any top DL and I wonder why

[The_Iceman]

I look a several recruiting sites and were not in the running for any top DL and I wonder why

How many of those are within 300 miles of campus?

[jackflash]

When I look at these recruiting sites I only look at kids from LA>>TX and GA we should be able to recruit these area

[onebadrubi]

You ever consider all those coaches took the best player available to them.  Let's face it.  We get the players Bama, LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida, aTm, etc DON'T want.
Ain't no "coachin' 'em up" gonna make up for that.

While not completely true but your statement fits your agenda. 

We have under Bielema not allowed those teams to come in the state and get the players they want. 

Henry, Pettway, Agim, Brown, Greenlaw and I think I might be missing  a couple.

[opineonswine]

So I'm using Scout.com as my reference point as they have reference material all the way back to 2002
=======================.
2002 - 25th
2003 - 23rd
2004 - 27th
2005 - 32nd
2006 - 30th
2007 - 34th
2008 - 26th
2009 - 21st
2010 - 37th
2011 - 17th
2012 - 19th
2013 - 33rd
2014 - 33rd
2015 - 21st
2016 - 32nd
2017 (projected) - 25th

==============================================

Now what that shows is remarkable consistency. Regardless of the coach we seem pretty much average the mid 20's. The complain to both HDN and BP is that they weren't great recruiters but Bielema is proving to be approximately as bad ad them.

HDN went on to Coach Ole Miss, and his recruiting was slightly better as compared to Arkansas for 2 of the 4 years there, but still nothing special.

BP had coached at Louisville prior and has gone on to coach as WKU and Louisville after , and has not achieved a recruiting ranking better than the Razorbacks in the same year , though to be fair this year could finally  break that streak.

CBB recruiting wasn't any better at Wisconsin (and often was much worse in terms of rankings)

So basically at this point we have 3 coaches all of home have pretty close to the same recruiting ranking each year. JLS doesn't count, he didn't do much anything in recruiting either.

Now I'm sure everyone has heard about how recruiting to Fayetteville is impossible. Goodness knows I see that mantra here by the "program backers" all the time. The thing to keep in mind is that all coaches seem to do equally here. That means that either UofA is some sort of recruiting Bermuda Triangle, where you can never recruit great but will always be above average, or that Arkansas has not had a very good reciting program over the past 15 years.

I'm an optimist, so I don't buy the recruiting Bermuda Triangle, which means we haven't gotten a good recruiter since before the Houston Nutt era.


Does that mean I think we just need a great recruiter? Well maybe, but CBB would either need to be replaced, or CBB would first have to realize he isn't evaluating or recruiting Defense correctly.

What I think it proves is that Arkansas lacks a competitive recruiting base with other SEC programs that are thriving.  It just isn't common sense to assume that all it takes is some super recruiter to get kids to bypass several other options, many times in their own home state, to leave and play at Arkansas.  We start out in a hole and it's very difficult to crawl out and be competitive regardless of who is the coach.  It's been that way for my 50 years of being a fan.  I see no evidence to suggest it will ever change.

That's not a pessimistic view, it's just the hard cold evidence and 50 years of hoping it was different.

[East TN HAWG]

While not completely true but your statement fits your agenda. 

We have under Bielema not allowed those teams to come in the state and get the players they want. 

Henry, Pettway, Agim, Brown, Greenlaw and I think I might be missing  a couple.

KJ Hill and Frazier.

[razorpimp]

I think a school like Arkansas needs to take a few risks every year in recruiting.  Take a guy that isn't highly recruited as a RB and make him something else with weight....go for speed.  I'm afraid he is recruiting like the old Big 10....big and slow

[Hawghiggs]

I think a school like Arkansas needs to take a few risks every year in recruiting.  Take a guy that isn't highly recruited as a RB and make him something else with weight....go for speed.  I'm afraid he is recruiting like the old Big 10....big and slow

I sorta agree with this.  Recruit Safeties and play them at Linebacker. At least we will be fast to the ball.

[onebadrubi]

I sorta agree with this.  Recruit Safeties and play them at Linebacker. At least we will be fast to the ball.

Holy crap!!!!  We did that, you people forget.  This entire board was clamoring for ever recruit we gave a visti too over 215 lbs to play line backer.  It turned out every RB fell forward for 3 yards after running for 5. 

[whitewater]

The problems with  recruiting are well documented , question is how do you overcome
the disadvantages.
     cheat ?
     maybe the early signing period ?
  I honestly dont think anyone coach can change recruiting we need something different.

[Oklahawg]

The problems with  recruiting are well documented , question is how do you overcome
the disadvantages.
     cheat ?
     maybe the early signing period ?
  I honestly dont think anyone coach can change recruiting we need something different.

I am willing to give the early signing period some time to help. Certainly, when we find the prospect early we don't have to worry about losing them later. Focus our efforts elsewhere.

[ThisTeetsTaken]

Not recruiting guys like the Crockett kid from Little Rock isn't helping their cause any. 

[King Kong]

Not recruiting guys like the Crockett kid from Little Rock isn't helping their cause any.

We signed 2 guys better than him at that position. But whatever

[ThisTeetsTaken]

We signed 2 guys better than him at that position. But whatever

So you don't think he could have played another position?  We don't need his speed? You get that kid on campus. 

[ricepig]

So you don't think he could have played another position?  We don't need his speed? You get that kid on campus. 

So, he says he wants to play RB, we say sure, then switch him?? Yeah, that'll work in the future......

[ThisTeetsTaken]

So, he says he wants to play RB, we say sure, then switch him?? Yeah, that'll work in the future......

I would have told him that he would get a legit shot at RB but if he couldn't get on the field I'd want him to try another position to help the team.

[ricepig]

I would have told him that he would get a legit shot at RB but if he couldn't get on the field I'd want him to try another position to help the team.

And he would have said, thanks, but no thanks, I want to play RB. What if that would have cost you the #3 RB in the country because you said you were only signing two RB's? He's were he needs to be, all is fine.

[RazorPiggie]

I sorta agree with this.  Recruit Safeties and play them at Linebacker. At least we will be fast to the ball.

Thing is CBB has put a helluva lot of players in the league at all different positions.

[onebadrubi]

Not recruiting guys like the Crockett kid from Little Rock isn't helping their cause any.

Lol just no

[Hawghiggs]

Thing is CBB has put a helluva lot of players in the league at all different positions.

That's fine and I can respect that. But that's not helping the Hawgs on the field.  I have little faith in CBB and his ability to accomplish anything at the UofA. I see him as no better than Houston Nutt, and I don't want to see the UofA waste another decade on a mediocre coach.

[Nosboar Accubond]

I would have told him that he would get a legit shot at RB but if he couldn't get on the field I'd want him to try another position to help the team.

They did, he passed. But don't mind me.

[Oklahawg]

They did, he passed. But don't mind me.

It gets in the way of an agenda

[ThisTeetsTaken]

It gets in the way of an agenda

No agenda here.  I just think you have to pull out the stops to get the kids in Arkansas that can play in the SEC.  The state produces so few each one is crucial IMO.  It's not as if we have RB's coming out of our ears either. 

[ricepig]

No agenda here.  I just think you have to pull out the stops to get the kids in Arkansas that can play in the SEC.  The state produces so few each one is crucial IMO.  It's not as if we have RB's coming out of our ears either. 

Wait, what.....take a recruit who's only SEC offers were from Vandy and Mizzou?? I've read on here countless times that is unacceptable.

[Oklahawg]

No agenda here.  I just think you have to pull out the stops to get the kids in Arkansas that can play in the SEC.  The state produces so few each one is crucial IMO.  It's not as if we have RB's coming out of our ears either. 

Why offer a kid who your evaluation shows is unlikely to contribute? And, why risk sending the message to Hammonds and Whaley that their playing time might be diminished by additional competition? Those two have good speed - hard to see that a third rookie could get enough practice reps to contribute anyway.

[SemperFi]

The problems with  recruiting are well documented , question is how do you overcome
the disadvantages.
     cheat ?
     maybe the early signing period ?
  I honestly dont think anyone coach can change recruiting we need something different.

The early signing period will be a game changer for schools like Arkansas.

[jjdlc]

The early signing period will be a game changer for schools like Arkansas.

At the very least, it should make it so we can lock down those early commits, and then go full bore on the remaining guys without fear of poaching, especially with recruits that blow up late in the process.  We've lost several good recruits that way in the past few years.  This rule should help schools that evaluate well early as opposed to schools that let others do the evaluations for them, or worse, that rely on their name to flip recruits late.

The big thing is, it'll slow down recruits who jump ship when an assistant leaves.