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Gopher Football Players threaten to boycott the Holiday Bowl (Next Up?)

Started by jbcarol, December 15, 2016, 06:40:36 pm

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Rzbakfromwaybak


Well, hard to tell exactly what's going on in Minnesota, but a couple of things sound familiar.

Football players boycotting, & demands being made.  Beginning to remind me of the Missouri predicament.....that didn't end well for that University.

According to the article, one of the players fathers, Winfield Sr.  Said...."If the president & athletic director keep their jobs, my son won't be attending the University of Minnesota".  Same type of demands the radical group at Missouri voiced during those demonstrations.  Guess the football team & a few parents, are going to decide who's running the university. 
Arkansas born, Arkansas bred, when I die I'll be a Razorback dead.

NuttinItUp

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/report-minnesota-players-threaten-bowl-boycott-after-10-teammates-suspended/

QuoteAccording to police records released Wednesday and obtained by the Assocated Press, "the woman told police she was drunk when she was sexually assaulted in Djam's apartment by several men, including some of the suspended players."
Buford, Hardin, Dior Johnson and Tamarion Johnson were all previously suspended for three games for an unspecified violation of team rules. According to the Star Tribune, police investigated the Sept. 2 allegation and later declined to press charges. The alleged victim, part of the Minnesota game-day operations staff, filed a restraining order -- against those four players and Carlton Djam -- that was dismissed in a settlement on Nov. 2.
In the police reports released this week, the alleged victim said her sexual contact with two men may have been consensual, but her contact with four of them was not.

So, she had consensual sex with the first 2 guys, but then the next 4 guys were not consensual? Classy.

Sounds like they were all drunk and she changed her mind after the fact.

Moral of the story: don't f-- with drunk chicks.


 

Mike_e

Quote from: NuttinItUp on December 16, 2016, 03:25:43 am
http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/report-minnesota-players-threaten-bowl-boycott-after-10-teammates-suspended/

So, she had consensual sex with the first 2 guys, but then the next 4 guys were not consensual? Classy.

Sounds like they were all drunk and she changed her mind after the fact.

Moral of the story: don't f-- with drunk chicks.

In most parts of the civilized world being intoxicated means that you are unable to give consent.

For us old farts that means banging a drunk chick IS rape.
The best "one thing" for a happy life?
Just be the best person that you can manage.  Right Now!

NuttinItUp

Quote from: Mike_e on December 16, 2016, 03:45:09 am
In most parts of the civilized world being intoxicated means that you are unable to give consent.

For us old farts that means banging a drunk chick IS rape.

Just to clarify, the drinking was speculation on my part. I have no idea which parties were or weren't drinking or intoxicated.

I do find this interesting:


"Shortly after, she called the police and they began an investigation. However, Djam insisted that it was consensual, and he showed the court 90 seconds worth of videos from that night which apparently convinced a police investigator that the alleged victim was "lucid" and "fully conscious." Criminal charges were never filed in the case, and the Hennepin County Attorney's office declined to prosecute."
via this link


So, they have some cell phone footage that satisfied the police/court that it was at least plausibly consensual and killed the investigation.


Edit:

Upon looking further, even more info can be found about what happened that night here. I find this part interesting:

Quote
On Sept. 8, police investigators Eric Faulconer and Matthew Wente interviewed Djam. He acknowledged having sex with the woman, but was adamant that it was consensual. As proof, he played them three separate videos, totaling about 90 seconds, taken that morning.

During an 8-second clip, the woman "appears lucid, alert, somewhat playful and fully conscious; she does not appear to be objecting to anything at this time," Wente wrote in his report. After viewing two additional videos, he wrote "the sexual contact appears entirely consensual."

Police later interviewed four other players, who each said the sex was consensual.

On Sept. 30, Wente sent the investigation to the Hennepin County Attorney's office for possible prosecution. In it, he wrote about the videos, "at no time does she indicate that she is in distress or that the contact is unwelcome or nonconsensual."

On Oct. 3 the attorney's office announced there would be no charges.

Afterward, the alleged victim filed a restraining order against six of the players, asking that they be made to stay away from the stadium. After a judge granted the orders, the woman dropped a petition against one of the players.

Hutton, the players' attorney, appealed, setting up a hearing where the woman testified for several hours. The hearing eventually ended in a settlement — the restraining order would be dropped, but the players still had to stay 20 feet away from the woman and have no contact with her. The two sides also agreed that neither would be able to file a lawsuit.

It really sounds like the players are getting a raw deal here.


SooiecidetillNuttgone

Quote from: ArkansasI on December 15, 2016, 11:18:33 pm
Coaches suspend players all the time. There are all kinds of decisions we make that have consequences - even if criminal charges are not pursued. The suspended players undoubtedly know why they were suspended. They should speak to their teammates.

The fact that the team is rallying behind their teammates is a nice display of solidarity, but it is also very immature. Coaches don't suspend players without knowledge of... something.

Whose in charge in Minneapolis?

You should educate yourself regarding the broad authoritarian powers of the college hierarchy (see Title 9 for example), and the omnipresent fear of the media and feminist groups taking the situation to prime time news outlets in the form of a black eye to the college.

One or more of these guys may be as guilty as it gets, but the witch hunt and fear mongering the administration utilizes, minus the investigative and legal professionalism used to decide the fate of these young men is draconian.  Furthermore, the police investigated and chose not to press charges.  Bottom line is that most institutes are more concerned with public perception than fair treatment.

For what it's worth, these guilty parties are lucky they're athletes.  They have value to the school.  If they were ordinary male students, it would more than likely be, "Bye, bye, sayonara mister.  If you're innocent, well.....We still don't really care."

Furthermore, look at this point:

"Buford, Hardin, Dior Johnson and Tamarion Johnson were all previously suspended for three games for an unspecified violation of team rules. According to the Star Tribune, police investigated the Sept. 2 allegation and later declined to press charges."
http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/report-minnesota-players-threaten-bowl-boycott-after-10-teammates-suspended/

This doesn't seem right to me.

EDIT:
The football players have an obligation to the school.  I support their cause and their freedom to protest.  I also support the school if it decides to invoke punishment for those not meeting scholarship obligations.
His response to me:
Quote from: hawginbigd1 on October 13, 2016, 11:48:33 am
So everyone one of the nationalized incidents were justified? There is no race problems with policing? If that is what you believe.....well bless your heart, it must be hard going through life with the obstacles you must have to overcome. Do they send a bus to come pick you up?

Letsroll1200

This is a direct result of what happened at Baylor. Coaches and administrations are going to be cautious and not look insensitive towards alleged victims.

Jackrabbit Hog

You have Baylor on one end of the spectrum and Missouri on the opposite end.  Both were the result of extremely poor decisions by those in power.  Both ended up damaging their universities athletically and in the eyes of the public. 

I can see how a school like Minnesota, given what's being reported now, doesn't know what to do.  It's almost a darned if you do, darned if you don't scenario. 

Moral of the story:  Guys, why on earth would you want to have sex with a female who just had sex with five other guys?    ???      (I'm not really joking with that comment..)
Quote from: JIMMY BOARFFETT on June 29, 2018, 03:47:07 pm
I'm sure it's nothing that a $500 retainer can't fix.  Contact JackRabbit Hog for payment instructions.

clutch

Quote from: Jackrabbit Hog on December 16, 2016, 07:41:40 am
You have Baylor on one end of the spectrum and Missouri on the opposite end.  Both were the result of extremely poor decisions by those in power.  Both ended up damaging their universities athletically and in the eyes of the public. 

I can see how a school like Minnesota, given what's being reported now, doesn't know what to do.  It's almost a darned if you do, darned if you don't scenario. 

Moral of the story:  Guys, why on earth would you want to have sex with a female who just had sex with five other guys?    ???      (I'm not really joking with that comment..)

I was just about to post the same thing. Someone else said "don't F drunk chicks", I was thinking more along the lines of don't mess with girls that have just had sex with another guy. Pretty simple. I'm sure a D1 football player would have no problem going out and finding a willing girl of their own for the night.

jbcarol

Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net

Boarcephus

Saw that JB.  Appears the Holiday Bowl is prepared to move on and I think that's great.  Once again, you can't let a bunch of players hold a university hostage. 
I need to be more like my dog...if you can't fight it, screw it, or eat it, then piss on it.

phadedhawg

Quote from: Boarcephus on December 16, 2016, 10:19:53 am
Saw that JB.  Appears the Holiday Bowl is prepared to move on and I think that's great.  Once again, you can't let a bunch of players hold a university hostage. 

I would counter that you can't let the disproved allegations of a female student hold the players futures hostage.  It's sad that it had to come to this.  The lack of due process for male students is a known issue in many colleges right now.  It's great that this team has the conviction to take a stand and not just let their buddies get railroaded without due process.

The team should boycott until they get the answers they need.  Right now they are operating under the assumption that all that is required to ruin their college careers is a single incident report and if that were to happen they'd have no right to respond. 

The school may have a good reason for the decision but until they assure the team they are dealing with male athletes fairly, why would they put more money in the AD's pockets by playing in a bowl game?

This isn't just because of Baylor, this is because of the hundred other stories from colleges were students (almost exclusively male) have been denied due process.

GolfNut57

Quote from: phadedhawg on December 16, 2016, 12:58:10 pm
I would counter that you can't let the disproved allegations of a female student hold the players futures hostage.  It's sad that it had to come to this.  The lack of due process for male students is a known issue in many colleges right now.  It's great that this team has the conviction to take a stand and not just let their buddies get railroaded without due process.

The team should boycott until they get the answers they need.  Right now they are operating under the assumption that all that is required to ruin their college careers is a single incident report and if that were to happen they'd have no right to respond. 

The school may have a good reason for the decision but until they assure the team they are dealing with male athletes fairly, why would they put more money in the AD's pockets by playing in a bowl game?

This isn't just because of Baylor, this is because of the hundred other stories from colleges were students (almost exclusively male) have been denied due process.

Since when does the AD himself make money off the bowl game? A HC I could see because a bowl game may cause a monetary incentive in his contract to kick in if he qualifies for said bowl game.
"Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented." Arnold Palmer.

311Hog

Quote from: GolfNut57 on December 16, 2016, 01:02:53 pm
Since when does the AD himself make money off the bowl game? A HC I could see because a bowl game may cause a monetary incentive in his contract to kick in if he qualifies for said bowl game.

That is easy.  Team gets $$ for being in a bowl, AD is the head of the department getting that $$ you really think he isn't going to get some of that $$$ ? lol he/she will  that is a fact.  One way or another that AD is reaping the benefit $$ of the program going to a bowl.

 

GolfNut57

Quote from: 311Hog on December 16, 2016, 01:21:09 pm
That is easy.  Team gets $$ for being in a bowl, AD is the head of the department getting that $$ you really think he isn't going to get some of that $$$ ? lol he/she will  that is a fact.  One way or another that AD is reaping the benefit $$ of the program going to a bowl.

If ADs truly get a piece of the HC's incentive pay then you would think there would be a lot more HCs losing their jobs every year than the current rates for poor performance. Afterall, losing enough games to miss a bowl game (with as many as there are now) would be taking money out of the ADs wallet. Sorry........I just don't buy it.
"Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented." Arnold Palmer.

311Hog

Quote from: GolfNut57 on December 16, 2016, 02:16:02 pm
If ADs truly get a piece of the HC's incentive pay then you would think there would be a lot more HCs losing their jobs every year than the current rates for poor performance. Afterall, losing enough games to miss a bowl game (with as many as there are now) would be taking money out of the ADs wallet. Sorry........I just don't buy it.

Of course he doesn't get $$ from the coaches incentive pay he has his/her own incentive pay.  You really think everyone and their brother gets a "bonus" for going to a bowl but the head of the Dept. the AD doesn't?

I can tell you you are wrong on that.  You go to a bowl you all, as in everyone gets a bonus of some kind.  Better the bowl better the bonus.

EastexHawg

Were criminal charges filed against Ben Cowins, Donny Bobo, and Michael Forrest?  Because I certainly remember Holtz suspending them from playing in the Orange Bowl.  I don't recall the rest of the team threatening to boycott the game, either.

EastexHawg

Okay, I did my own research and found this interesting, maybe even definitive:

QuoteBut Royce Griffin, an Arkansas Deputy Attorney General who defended the state university in the action, said by telephone from Little Rock, "We think they discontinued the suit because they can't win."

Griffin said a key question in the case is whether a coach can suspend a player who breaks a team rule—if the player has not committed a crime that is punishable by civil authorities.

"The Constitution guarantees due process," said the Deputy Attorney General. "But the amount of due process you have is based on the rights you have in a particular case."

He said "the players did not have an inherent right to go to the Orange Bowl. Nor do they have a right to have the university hear their complaints. In this particular case, the fact that Coach Holtz heard their side was due process enough. Look, if a coach tells an athlete to go three laps around the track because he doesn't like how the athlete is performing, the athlete doesn't have a right to a hearing."

http://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/30/archives/suspended-arkansas-players-drop-suit-against-coach-holtz-players.html?_r=0

Maybe we all just thought it was the coach and school who ran the football team back then.  We're enlightened now.

cobra kai

The EOAA investigation report was leaked by a Minnesota News station this afternoon.

It's not a pleasant read, to say the least.  http://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/U%20of%20M%20EOAA%20redacted4.pdf

Boarcephus

I need to be more like my dog...if you can't fight it, screw it, or eat it, then piss on it.

Boarcephus

Appears the players caved in and will play in the game.  The 10 players are still suspended.  Would love to know what was said behind closed doors.
I need to be more like my dog...if you can't fight it, screw it, or eat it, then piss on it.

GolfNut57

Bet the ten players suspended took the high road and told the team to not boycott the game just for their sake. That a bowl game is not a guaranteed opportunity and they should not miss the chance at playing in one just for them.


Or at least I am betting that is the story that will come out. Doubt the team wants anyone to know they "caved to pressure".
"Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented." Arnold Palmer.

Boarcephus

Quote from: GolfNut57 on December 17, 2016, 11:46:06 am
Bet the ten players suspended took the high road and told the team to not boycott the game just for their sake. That a bowl game is not a guaranteed opportunity and they should not miss the chance at playing in one just for them.


Or at least I am betting that is the story that will come out. Doubt the team wants anyone to know they "caved to pressure".

I've no doubt that's how this is spun but bottom line is they received no apologies and no reinstatements which was in the forefront of their demands or they weren't playing.  They got a hearing for the 10 but that's not all that different from the deal the Ladyjacks did after they took the knee then decided they would stand from that point on.

Also, you know with a team payout of $2 million plus per team, the Big 10 had a call into the Minnesota folks as well.  Wouldn't have surprised me in the least if it didn't  go along the lines of get your butts to the bowl or you might be looking for a new conference to join. 

Would still love to been a fly on the wall.   
I need to be more like my dog...if you can't fight it, screw it, or eat it, then piss on it.

SooiecidetillNuttgone

Quote from: Letsroll1200 on December 16, 2016, 05:06:54 am
This is a direct result of what happened at Baylor. Coaches and administrations are going to be cautious and not look insensitive towards alleged victims.

But it's been this way for the last 7-10 years or so.
Stanford and Baylor type situations are not the norm anymore....At all.

You are probably right about colleges being even more sensitive though.
His response to me:
Quote from: hawginbigd1 on October 13, 2016, 11:48:33 am
So everyone one of the nationalized incidents were justified? There is no race problems with policing? If that is what you believe.....well bless your heart, it must be hard going through life with the obstacles you must have to overcome. Do they send a bus to come pick you up?

SooiecidetillNuttgone

Quote from: phadedhawg on December 16, 2016, 12:58:10 pm
I would counter that you can't let the disproved allegations of a female student hold the players futures hostage.  It's sad that it had to come to this.  The lack of due process for male students is a known issue in many colleges right now.  It's great that this team has the conviction to take a stand and not just let their buddies get railroaded without due process.

The team should boycott until they get the answers they need.  Right now they are operating under the assumption that all that is required to ruin their college careers is a single incident report and if that were to happen they'd have no right to respond. 

The school may have a good reason for the decision but until they assure the team they are dealing with male athletes fairly, why would they put more money in the AD's pockets by playing in a bowl game?

This isn't just because of Baylor, this is because of the hundred other stories from colleges were students (almost exclusively male) have been denied due process.

This.  See my post above yours.
His response to me:
Quote from: hawginbigd1 on October 13, 2016, 11:48:33 am
So everyone one of the nationalized incidents were justified? There is no race problems with policing? If that is what you believe.....well bless your heart, it must be hard going through life with the obstacles you must have to overcome. Do they send a bus to come pick you up?

 

Cornfed Pig

Going forward, if you are one of 10 football dudes engaging in sexual activity with one female, maybe expect the worst?

thefisher

Quote from: Cornfed Pig on December 17, 2016, 05:41:20 pm
Going forward, if you are one of 10 football dudes engaging in sexual activity with one female, maybe expect the worst?

Like say .... an STD?
I miss the smell of the mud, grass, and sweat of the practice field. I miss blood oozing down your arm from the rip in your skin that was slashed on a guys helmet as you punked him at the line of scrimmage and put his dobber in the dirt.

clutch

Quote from: Cornfed Pig on December 17, 2016, 05:41:20 pm
Going forward, if you are one of 10 football dudes engaging in sexual activity with one female, maybe expect the worst?

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that anyone would still want to have sex with a girl that has had multiple people go before them already. I'm not sure these guys are smart enough to expect anything, especially the worst.

jbcarol

https://twitter.com/JonSolomonCBS/status/810190946935652353

QuoteSolomon's Wisdom: Minnesota players decided they're going to the Holiday Bowl after all. Now it's time to educate them on what exactly they thought they were fighting for and what consent means.

The players believed due process for 10 teammates had been violated when they got suspended for their role in an alleged gang rape on Sept. 2 that resulted in no criminal charges. The accused should absolutely have rights. Minnesota would argue they did; critics of Title IX investigations, which require a lower proof of evidence than criminal cases, might think differently.

Here's a question for the players: Did they actually read the 80-page report from the university's Office of Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action (EOAA)? Did Golden Gophers coach Tracy Claeys, caught between a rock (his administration) and a hard place (his players), read the report and understand what he was supporting with this tweet during the boycott?

https://twitter.com/GoldenGopherHFC/status/809580754149711877

The report contains deeply disturbing and graphic details; accuses some players of misleading statements and covering their tracks; and acknowledges that the woman, who was drinking that night, expressed confusion at times about the events that occurred.
Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net

Inhogswetrust

I thought Minnesota was suppose to be a school with smart people....................Not very smart to threaten to boycott a game in San Diego when you are in Minnesota.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

jbcarol

The Minnesota AD who fired Tubby Smith was finally let go over a sexual harrassment case.

Turns out that separately he was stalking and harrassing the beat writer for the Star-Tribune who was covering Gopher sports.


Okay, then.
Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net

Boarcephus

I'm still not buying that Claeys is out of the woods over this.   Time will tell.
I need to be more like my dog...if you can't fight it, screw it, or eat it, then piss on it.

Dr. Starcs

Who cares if they skip a bowl game. McCaffrey and Fournette are doing it.

jbcarol

Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net

Boarcephus

Read today where there is an online petition to have the Claeys fired and has accumulated over 1000 signatures.  I'm not saying he shouldn't defend his players but in todays climate, especially with the release of the Mixon tape, he needs to be damn sure he has all the facts and just not their side of the story. 
I need to be more like my dog...if you can't fight it, screw it, or eat it, then piss on it.

GolfNut57

maybe they should have kept boycotting the game. Their uniforms look like crap.  8)
"Golf is deceptively simple and endlessly complicated; it satisfies the soul and frustrates the intellect. It is at the same time rewarding and maddening – and it is without a doubt the greatest game mankind has ever invented." Arnold Palmer.

jbcarol

Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net

jbcarol

Curated SEC Infotainment and aggregated college sports updates where it just means more on Hogville.net

311Hog


Inhogswetrust

Quote from: GolfNut57 on December 27, 2016, 08:02:44 pm
maybe they should have kept boycotting the game. Their uniforms look like crap.  8)

I wish they would have boycotted the Music City bowl several years ago. If not them then at least nutty should have and let someone else coach the Hogs that day.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi