Revenue by University (Ark 16th)

[Porked Tongue]

Hmm, my cable bill has increased at a greater clip than Sec. 100 season tickets.  I agree it's expensive to take a family of 4 to 6 games a year, but have you been to Disney World lately? Those that live 2-2 1/2 hours away or closer have it made, compared to some.

Your cable bill going up is largely driven by sports channels.  This goes to my prior comment about overlapping costs for the a similar item.

Season tickets are general an "all or nothing" proposition.  Traveling can be cherry picked. 

I've trimmed back on traveling for the very reason. Recently, I gave up basketball tickets so I can keep football.  The next move will be to lessen the number of seats in my football block.  Basically, I'm spending the same money I did years ago but for less sports and game. Eventually for less seats.   I'm not alone.

[Porked Tongue]

Schools know prices are becoming cost prohibitive for the average fan. Washington actually forfeited about 7k seats in their stadium rebuild. Baylor just spent $270MM to seat 45,000. Minnesota...$304MM for 52k. Butts in the seats are no longer a leading consideration. Maintenance, parking and payroll can eat you alive for larger venues with seats left unsold.

The latest trend is to maximize earning potential by providing smaller, yet more extravagant, facilities at a higher price with less overhead. The forthcoming upgrade to RRS suggests the powers that be received the memo. Premium, not necessarily more, seating is the way to go.

Yep, the average Joe is being squeezed out. Nothing a good ole fashion economic depression can't fix though.

We're agreeing on most of this.  Increase in amenities is something I've spoken about on many occasions.  I fill out the survey every year as well as write letters to the department to share my view.  The additional seating should not come at the expense of current seat costs. I just believe they could increase the experience using some of this extra revenue from other sources without passing it along to those still coming to the games.

[ricepig]

Your cable bill going up is largely driven by sports channels.  This goes to my prior comment about overlapping costs for the a similar item.

Season tickets are general an "all or nothing" proposition.  Traveling can be cherry picked. 

I've trimmed back on traveling for the very reason. Recently, I gave up basketball tickets so I can keep football.  The next move will be to lessen the number of seats in my football block.  Basically, I'm spending the same money I did years ago but for less sports and game. Eventually for less seats.   I'm not alone.

Well, if your tickets are in a good location, or it's a marquee game, you'll recoup some of your cost if you wish not to attend. I guess those not renewing can try and get tickets on the market, they're almost always available. Like I said, we make choices on our entertainment dollars, that hasn't changed.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

We're agreeing on most of this.  Increase in amenities is something I've spoken about on many occasions.  I fill out the survey every year as well as write letters to the department to share my view.  The additional seating should not come at the expense of current seat costs. I just believe they could increase the experience using some of this extra revenue from other sources without passing it along to those still coming to the games.

I don't have the answer, but do know this...there are too damn many ticket brokers purchasing blocks of seats through the Foundation and marking them up. And I am talking THOUSANDS of seats. That needs to stop and right now. Start vetting the vampires.

[Porked Tongue]

Like I said, we make choices on our entertainment dollars, that hasn't changed.

The number of people that can reasonably afford them is changing.

[ricepig]

The number of people that can reasonably afford them is changing.

Or making other choices......I know plenty of guys that don't think twice on spending $10,000 a year to duck or deer hunt, again, choices. Yes, you can sit at home and watch the games for the same money you are already paying for satellite or cable, but you miss the atmosphere and fun of being there.

[Porked Tongue]

So raise that to $15,000.  Then $20,000.  Some of your crew likely has to make a choice they never considered at 10K

[ricepig]

So raise that to $15,000.  Then $20,000.  Some of your crew likely has to make a choice they never considered at 10K

Last I looked, it doesn't take $10,000, much less $15-20,000 to have season tickets and attend the games. Again, it's in the personal choices we make. If $10/game has priced someone out of going, then they were probably pushing their limit on spending their disposal income.

[Porked Tongue]

Last I looked, it doesn't take $10,000, much less $15-20,000 to have season tickets and attend the games. Again, it's in the personal choices we make. If $10/game has priced someone out of going, then they were probably pushing their limit on spending their disposal income.

You missed the point.

You referenced a 41% increase to your own tickets.  I was furthering it within the framework of your example.

I realize you are just trolling now. Was hopeful that wasn't the case a few posts back.  My error continuing it directly.

Onward.

[ricepig]

You missed the point.

You referenced a 41% increase to your own tickets.  I was furthering it within the framework of your example.

I realize you are just trolling now. Was hopeful that wasn't the case a few posts back.  My error continuing it directly.

Onward.

You were talking about your friend, the discussion wasn't about me, as I never said I was dropping tickets, or cutting back. I wasn't the one saying that college sports was pricing them out of the market, now was I? I can't speak to what others may do, you brought that up. I've said it numerous times, people make the choices that best fit their situation. I guess if I felt that my ticket prices were too high and wished to still attend, I'd drop down in price range and move my seats.

[McKdaddy]

I dropped my tickets this season, not due to expense as they were a cheap cost.  But they were relatively poor seats in terms of sightlines and I didn't enjoy sitting there.  However, I never bothered to upgrade b/c my dad has excellent seats and would only make 1/3 of the games given all their retirement travel, so I'd benefit from sitting in his seats (he has 4 tix, but usually only uses 2 of them when he and Mom can make the games, so availability really isn't an issue for me, so long as I only want to bring 1 of my 2 kiddos).  My less desirable seats were out of sight, out of mind and often went unused the past few seasons.

Another reason I didn't upgrade my seats a few years ago is that I knew I was soon entering a period where my kids' sports would consume my Saturdays.  Until the 2014 season, their activities would usually be concluded in time to make it to Fayetteville for any kick-offs other than the 11:30-ish games.  But the past 2 football seasons their activities have been scattered across any and all times on Saturdays.  So I too have only been attending sporadically, regardless of seat quality.

So yeah, I've made a choice of my kids > attending the Hogs' games in Fay, but not b/c I'm spending that money elsewhere.  But when the kids activities don't interfere, I'll be at the games.

I've offered to pay Dad 1/2 his donation and tickets costs, but thus far he's declined to allow me to do that.

Fwiw, I have continued my RF donation.

[ricepig]

I dropped my tickets this season, not due to expense as they were a cheap cost.  But they were relatively poor seats in terms of sightlines and I didn't enjoy sitting there.  However, I never bothered to upgrade b/c my dad has excellent seats and would only make 1/3 of the games given all their retirement travel, so I'd benefit from sitting in his seats (he has 4 tix, but usually only uses 2 of them when he and Mom can make the games, so availability really isn't an issue for me, so long as I only want to bring 1 of my 2 kiddos).  My less desirable seats were out of sight, out of mind and often went unused the past few seasons.

Another reason I didn't upgrade my seats a few years ago is that I knew I was soon entering a period where my kids' sports would consume my Saturdays.  Until the 2014 season, their activities would usually be concluded in time to make it to Fayetteville for any kick-offs other than the 11:30-ish games.  But the past 2 football seasons their activities have been scattered across any and all times on Saturdays.  So I too have only been attending sporadically, regardless of seat quality.

So yeah, I've made a choice of my kids > attending the Hogs' games in Fay, but not b/c I'm spending that money elsewhere.  But when the kids activities don't interfere, I'll be at the games.

I've offered to pay Dad 1/2 his donation and tickets costs, but thus far he's declined to allow me to do that.

Fwiw, I have continued my RF donation.

That's understandable, when I was actively farming, I missed 3/4th's of the games, but kept my seats for various members of the family. We never played fall baseball as the kids were playing football and it played it's games during the week. Family always comes first, although mine usually chose to go the games over other activities, or the boys did, lol.

[Porcine Coprolite]

A couple of posters addressed the question of subsidies.  The subsidies come from student fees and school funds.  The school funds are really state tax funds.  Given that most students go to school on government loans or government scholarships, the student fees are mostly paid for by federal or state tax funds.  That means that without direct or indirect tax subsidies, the vast majority of college athletics would be eliminated.  Probably the only schools with athletics would be private schools and most of the Power 5 conferences public schools.  The only public school in Arkansas with an athletic program would be U of A at Fayetteville.

Whether you approve of tax funds subsidizing athletics probably depends on your political viewpoint or your addiction to sports.  I think we should keep subsidizing college athletics at every public college in America.  The bread and circuses thing worked out pretty well for Rome, didn't it?

[ricepig]

A couple of posters addressed the question of subsidies.  The subsidies come from student fees and school funds.  The school funds are really state tax funds.  Given that most students go to school on government loans or government scholarships, the student fees are mostly paid for by federal or state tax funds.  That means that without direct or indirect tax subsidies, the vast majority of college athletics would be eliminated.  Probably the only schools with athletics would be private schools and most of the Power 5 conferences public schools.  The only public school in Arkansas with an athletic program would be U of A at Fayetteville.

Whether you approve of tax funds subsidizing athletics probably depends on your political viewpoint or your addiction to sports.  I think we should keep subsidizing college athletics at every public college in America.  The bread and circuses thing worked out pretty well for Rome, didn't it?

Well, if football lasts 500 years, then we'll have something to compare to, add another 1000 years if you include the Eastern Empire. Now, as far as subsidies, it's the American way.......

[Michael D Huff AIA]

Revenue includes donations, thus the increase.

By that logic, their revenue will fall steeply after their stadium is built, down to somewhere slightly above where they are now.  It would be to their detriment to show a massive decrease in donations at any time.  Bad PR.

[ricepig]

By that logic, their revenue will fall steeply after their stadium is built, down to somewhere slightly above where they are now.  It would be to their detriment to show a massive decrease in donations at any time.  Bad PR.

So, if we raise $40m additionally for the North End Zone project, and then go back to $24m the following year, it will be terrible for our PR? I somehow doubt it, lol.

[UAfanatic]

Schools know prices are becoming cost prohibitive for the average fan. Washington actually forfeited about 7k seats in their stadium rebuild. Baylor just spent $270MM to seat 45,000. Minnesota...$304MM for 52k. Butts in the seats are no longer a leading consideration. Maintenance, parking and payroll can eat you alive for larger venues with seats left unsold.

The latest trend is to maximize earning potential by providing smaller, yet more extravagant, facilities at a higher price with less overhead. The forthcoming upgrade to RRS suggests the powers that be received the memo. Premium, not necessarily more, seating is the way to go.

Yep, the average Joe is being squeezed out. Nothing a good ole fashion economic depression can't fix though.

This will reduce new young fans.. when they can turn on the TV and become a fan of anyone.. since they aren't going to the game anyway..

[Hawgar The Horrible]

This will reduce new young fans.. when they can turn on the TV and become a fan of anyone.. since they aren't going to the game anyway..

I would venture to say Arkansas is an exception. Any kid growing up in the State knows the Hogs remain the only game in town. It's a matter of pride.

[Michael D Huff AIA]

So, if we raise $40m additionally for the North End Zone project, and then go back to $24m the following year, it will be terrible for our PR? I somehow doubt it, lol.

This is why I asked the question in the first place.  There are more schools undergoing stadium expansions than just TAMU, but they are the only school (maybe ever) with a 105% revenue jump from year to year.  I'm thinking their number is skewed because of stadium expansion money.  It would be better to not show that as revenue because it is for a specific project vs. revenue created by cokes, t-shirts and tickets.

[ricepig]

This is why I asked the question in the first place.  There are more schools undergoing stadium expansions than just TAMU, but they are the only school (maybe ever) with a 105% revenue jump from year to year.  I'm thinking their number is skewed because of stadium expansion money.  It would be better to not show that as revenue because it is for a specific project vs. revenue created by cokes, t-shirts and tickets.

Oregon led the previous year, due to a large donation. Oregon led the nation with $196 million total operating revenue and an $83.5 million difference between its generated revenue and its total operating expense of $110.4 million. However, the school reported that its revenue included in-kind facility gifts of $95 million — the value of a football training facility funded primarily by Nike co-founder Phil Knight and his wife.

[Michael D Huff AIA]

Another interesting find in the list of schools and their revenues is the effect of state subsidies.  UA athletics doesn't receive money from the state, so we are not in this pool, but the discussion changes when the subsidies are thrown in the mix. 

Only 12 of the 231 DON'T get state money. (6 are SEC teams)

If you deduct the subsidies from the school's 'profits', then only 22 out of 231 schools actually made money (Arkansas @ #3 with +$17,066,308).

Somehow it's not a surprise to see that all 231 schools on the list totals to a little over a $2.4 billion loss.

[UAfanatic]

wrong quote.. sorry

[UAfanatic]

I would venture to say Arkansas is an exception. Any kid growing up in the State knows the Hogs remain the only game in town. It's a matter of pride.

You haven't been to the local high school here and see the LSU, Auburn.. and worse, more A-State than Ark shirts ..

It's not how I grew up with the PA at the grocery store playing the Razorback game if your Mom just had to make you go during the game.

[ricepig]

You haven't been to the local high school here and see the LSU, Auburn.. and worse, more A-State than Ark shirts ..

It's not how I grew up with the PA at the grocery store playing the Razorback game if your Mom just had to make you go during the game.

Where is this local high school?

[LZH]

Where is this local high school?

Elkins.

[ricepig]

Elkins.

They have kids going to college?

[LZH]

They have kids going to college?

Gus has been up there recrootin again.

[12247]

Hawgar, we play in the SEC, Compete, not so much.  I often wonder how much we actually pay for a win in each of the sports our University plays in. 

[UAfanatic]

Where is this local high school?

Saline County.. the same area that just had over 500 people to see Bielema at the Saline County Razorback Club..

So I'm not saying they're aren't fans here.. but it's not automatic that the kids are Razorback fans anymore..

It might just be shear size and growth .. but it's probably more to do with tons of channels and the internet let you
be anyone's fan.. and now with prices moving away from the common guy, and moving all the games that anyone would want to see to the hill .. making it less likely that the rest of Arkansas goes to the games.. and with all the money and growth in  NW Arkansas.. They pretty much don't have as much need for the rest of the state..

[ricepig]

Saline County.. the same area that just had over 500 people to see Bielema at the Saline County Razorback Club..

So I'm not saying they're aren't fans here.. but it's not automatic that the kids are Razorback fans anymore..

It might just be shear size and growth .. but it's probably more to do with tons of channels and the internet let you
be anyone's fan.. and now with prices moving away from the common guy, and moving all the games that anyone would want to see to the hill .. making it less likely that the rest of Arkansas goes to the games.. and with all the money and growth in  NW Arkansas.. They pretty much don't have as much need for the rest of the state..

Wrong, it's still possible and relatively easy to drive from Benton/Bryant to Fayetteville for a game. $60/ticket is cheaper than almost every other conference foe we play, and lots of them drive 3hrs to games. I get so tired of hearing people act like they are owed something, the university is in Fayetteville, that's where the games should be played. I live 4 1/2 hours away, you won't hear any entitlement out of me.

[UAfanatic]

Wrong, it's still possible and relatively easy to drive from Benton/Bryant to Fayetteville for a game. $60/ticket is cheaper than almost every other conference foe we play, and lots of them drive 3hrs to games. I get so tired of hearing people act like they are owed something, the university is in Fayetteville, that's where the games should be played. I live 4 1/2 hours away, you won't hear any entitlement out of me.

And you're a great fan..
nd I go to games from here, just not as many as I used to

But, there are less fans going to games all over the nation..
it's not the 60 bucks..
but My tickets cost a LOT more than the 60 buck face value after the donation that is excised.

the Barrier to entry keeps common fans from going..

The Original reason to have the games in Little Rock was to make them more accessible.

Somehow in your mind it seems, that the state shrunk and NW arkansas is just as close to the rest of the state.

The point is that the accessibility to go to hog games is not worth the money/hassle to the program any longer.
but to say it's just as accessible to go to Fayetteville is blind fandom.

I'll go, but it's no longer worth me going to every game on the hill as an event,
spending 2 days with hotel and meal..
or driving 7 hours in a day with a 4 hour game thrown in

When I can watch it in HD in my media room on a 12 foot screen and know immediately why someone is no longer in the game.. and how the rest of the SEC games are going.. the experience is just not worth the trade off any more...
it probably also has to do with that long drive after losses .. which we have had too many lately to make me want to go.

But for the fans that don't go, with ALL of the SEC games on TV, you see a LOT more kids choosing other teams to be fans of.

[ricepig]

And you're a great fan..
nd I go to games from here, just not as many as I used to

But, there are less fans going to games all over the nation..
it's not the 60 bucks..
but My tickets cost a LOT more than the 60 buck face value after the donation that is excised.

the Barrier to entry keeps common fans from going..

The Original reason to have the games in Little Rock was to make them more accessible.

Somehow in your mind it seems, that the state shrunk and NW arkansas is just as close to the rest of the state.

The point is that the accessibility to go to hog games is not worth the money/hassle to the program any longer.
but to say it's just as accessible to go to Fayetteville is blind fandom.

I'll go, but it's no longer worth me going to every game on the hill as an event,
spending 2 days with hotel and meal..
or driving 7 hours in a day with a 4 hour game thrown in

When I can watch it in HD in my media room on a 12 foot screen and know immediately why someone is no longer in the game.. and how the rest of the SEC games are going.. the experience is just not worth the trade off any more...
it probably also has to do with that long drive after losses .. which we have had too many lately to make me want to go.

But for the fans that don't go, with ALL of the SEC games on TV, you see a LOT more kids choosing other teams to be fans of.

As I've said countless times, we make choices on how we spend our entertainment money. So, these kids that are fans of other schools, are they just being like 8 year olds and choosing the winner? What connection do they have with the program besides watching them on TV? I've got kids in college and one still in Jr High, the one's backing other SEC schools, their parents are graduates of that school, or moved to town from that state and were already fans of them.

As far as spending two nights, I've never spent two nights unless I chose too, usually involved a function on Friday night with one of the kids attending. I'm an alum and I love to visit, I usually catch up with other's who were classmates there. If one is put off by driving a few hours to attend a game, I doubt they are going to be more than a T-shirt fan for these other teams the watch at home, a lot further drive in almost every situation. I'm not even going to bring up the cost and time involved should the go watch a game of this team.

[UAfanatic]

As I've said countless times, we make choices on how we spend our entertainment money. So, these kids that are fans of other schools, are they just being like 8 year olds and choosing the winner? What connection do they have with the program besides watching them on TV? I've got kids in college and one still in Jr High, the one's backing other SEC schools, their parents are graduates of that school, or moved to town from that state and were already fans of them.

As far as spending two nights, I've never spent two nights unless I chose too, usually involved a function on Friday night with one of the kids attending. I'm an alum and I love to visit, I usually catch up with other's who were classmates there. If one is put off by driving a few hours to attend a game, I doubt they are going to be more than a T-shirt fan for these other teams the watch at home, a lot further drive in almost every situation. I'm not even going to bring up the cost and time involved should the go watch a game of this team.

I see that you see where you are. and how you make decisions for right now.
not really the point though..

I'm talking about the future, over the next 20-40 years the UofA will erode the fanbase within the state
for the next generation and the next.. it's not all because of what I've mentioned..
there are many other things at play.. like the percentage of students that go to the university that can attend games .. or even want to.

the percentage of students that go to the university that are not from arkansas..
versus the percentage of arkansas students at the other arkansas universities.

and the growth in population of the state in general..

we are poised to be like many of the other states, to lose our singular sports focus as a state..

this is just another symptom of the slow erosion.

the fact that you are tired of having to argue the point that it's not that bad
shows that there are more and more people to have to argue with.. that it is chipping away at it..

The main point is that it is not a primary focus of the university, after Frank, to protect
this precious focus of the whole state.

as far as the shirts I see in high school, some moved here from other places.. like the
LSU kids that moved here for the hurricane.. but I can give you numerous
examples where they are 4 generations or more that don the other universities.. and like them..

Like the Razorback club in New York that was started in new york by new yorkers in the 60s  just because... no connection
(probably just because we were winning)

[ricepig]

I see that you see where you are. and how you make decisions for right now.
not really the point though..

I'm talking about the future, over the next 20-40 years the UofA will erode the fanbase within the state
for the next generation and the next.. it's not all because of what I've mentioned..
there are many other things at play.. like the percentage of students that go to the university that can attend games .. or even want to.

the percentage of students that go to the university that are not from arkansas..
versus the percentage of arkansas students at the other arkansas universities.

and the growth in population of the state in general..

we are poised to be like many of the other states, to lose our singular sports focus as a state..

this is just another symptom of the slow erosion.

the fact that you are tired of having to argue the point that it's not that bad
shows that there are more and more people to have to argue with.. that it is chipping away at it..

The main point is that it is not a primary focus of the university, after Frank, to protect
this precious focus of the whole state.

as far as the shirts I see in high school, some moved here from other places.. like the
LSU kids that moved here for the hurricane.. but I can give you numerous
examples where they are 4 generations or more that don the other universities.. and like them..

Like the Razorback club in New York that was started in new york by new yorkers in the 60s  just because... no connection
(probably just because we were winning)

So, these 4th generation Hog fans are abandoning their team, while those of other schools aren't, and they live hours away? My kids are third generation alumni, and I don't see that much change in their age groups. My freshman daughter had over 35 of her high school classmates chose to attend the UofA, and it's 4 1/2 hours away.

The percentage of students that qualify for entrance into the UofA is lower than all the other schools, you want to know why? I don't think you would want to compare incoming freshman ACT/SAT scores and GPA's with other in-state public universities. There's more Arkansas kids going to school in Fayetteville, than before. Sure, the number of out of state students has increased, but these students aren't taking the place of Arkansas high school students.