SEC Realignment

[lefty08]

These teams won titles before there were divisions, too.  I'm not saying competitive balance between the divisions doesn't matter, but they all played together before 1992.

That's true. Another reason for their dominance. The Mississippi schools, vandy, and Kentucky were their competition for most years. Just another reason for the big 6

[Murr]

I don't remember the Pac 12 saying "no" to Oklahoma and Oklahoma State coming together, in fact it was a part of a bigger package that initially included Baylor, that the Pac 12 rejected (or stalled negotiations) because they didn't want Baylor. Wasn't the original package deal Texas, OU, OSU and Baylor? Heck, I can't remember...slept since then.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/02/report-oklahoma-oklahoma-state-surprised-by-pac-12-snub/

"We were not surprised by the Pac 12′s decision to not expand at this time. " OU president David Boren said via statement after the announcement. Conference stability has been our first goal and we look forward to achieving that goal through continued membership in the Big 12 Conference."

[ricepig]

https://twitter.com/SECfootball/status/720405787764400129

[MuskogeeHogFan]

https://twitter.com/SECfootball/status/720405787764400129

Unfortunately for him, the only way Auburn goes to the East is if they move with Alabama.

[ricepig]

Unfortunately for him, the only way Auburn goes to the East is if they move with Alabama.

Did you read the article?

[bphi11ips]

Did you read the article?

Low may be a lurker.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Did you read the article?

Yes, but as was mentioned above in another debate of this point, they need Missouri in the East for balance at this time. Alabama is the big dog and they aren't going to stand idly by and watch Auburn escape to the East and perhaps gain ground in Georgia/Florida recruiting. I didn't make that point but it certainly makes sense.

I still believe that we won't see a conference realignment of any sort until we see the Big 12 implode. Just my opinion, but I think that will be the next "trigger" to conference realignment for the SEC, the Pac 12, the Big Ten and to a smaller degree, the ACC.

[ricepig]

Yes, but as was mentioned above in another debate of this point, they need Missouri in the East for balance at this time. Alabama is the big dog and they aren't going to stand idly by and watch Auburn escape to the East and perhaps gain ground in Georgia/Florida recruiting. I didn't make that point but it certainly makes sense.

I still believe that we won't see a conference realignment of any sort until we see the Big 12 implode. Just my opinion, but I think that will be the next "trigger" to conference realignment for the SEC, the Pac 12, the Big Ten and to a smaller degree, the ACC.

Ok, I don't think it's something that would happen anytime soon, and Ole Gussie would have long been fired from the Plains, but it's something in the water apparently.

[12247]

In any event, I do not believe the SEC would pile 5 of their 6 premium teams in one division on purpose.  If you were one of those teams why would you want to go where the competition is harder.  The problem with the larger conferences right now is the number of teams that you must go through to win a championship.  Piling more of the potential cream of the crop into the same division would eventual hurt the conference overall.

The truth is the Big 12 with 10 teams is the correct size for a conference to be.  Play everyone in your conference, leaving no doubt about who won it, then go to the playoffs. 

[Inhogswetrust]

Yes, but as was mentioned above in another debate of this point, they need Missouri in the East for balance at this time. Alabama is the big dog and they aren't going to stand idly by and watch Auburn escape to the East and perhaps gain ground in Georgia/Florida recruiting. I didn't make that point but it certainly makes sense.

I still believe that we won't see a conference realignment of any sort until we see the Big 12 implode. Just my opinion, but I think that will be the next "trigger" to conference realignment for the SEC, the Pac 12, the Big Ten and to a smaller degree, the ACC.

Auburn already does have major recruiting in Georgia and Florida. Changing their division would not change that. Perhaps Bama folks might not like it because they might have a perception that Auburn would then have an easier path to the conference championship and thus possible playoff spot.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Auburn already does have major recruiting in Georgia and Florida. Changing their division would not change that. Perhaps Bama folks might not like it because they might have a perception that Auburn would then have an easier path to the conference championship and thus possible playoff spot.

I agree, that is why is I chose to say "gain ground", maybe a better advantage than they have now. Reality is that we have no way of knowing if that would give them a greater advantage or improve their recruiting in those areas but it would certainly, at this point anyway, perhaps give them an easier road to the SECCG and maybe a play off spot. But I can't see auburn moving East without Alabama and for that to happen, we would have to see expansion in the West. JMO

[bphi11ips]

I agree, that is why is I chose to say "gain ground", maybe a better advantage than they have now. Reality is that we have no way of knowing if that would give them a greater advantage or improve their recruiting in those areas but it would certainly, at this point anyway, perhaps give them an easier road to the SECCG and maybe a play off spot. But I can't see auburn moving East without Alabama and for that to happen, we would have to see expansion in the West. JMO

The only way to move Alabama and Auburn east is to replace them with Texas and Oklahoma.  This would be a natural extension west and would set up a mega conference recalling the old SEC in the East vs. the best of the old SWC/Big Eight plus Louisiana and Mississippi.  Texas and Oklahoma would bring their rivalry with them, and Texas/Arkansas and A&M/Texas would be restored.

I think the SEC is more likely to get to the inevitable 16 by adding Clemson and Florida State to the east and moving Missouri west.  14 is an odd number to divide into two divisions.  I don't think we'll see realignment until the SEC adds two teams.

[NaturalStateReb]

I don't remember the Pac 12 saying "no" to Oklahoma and Oklahoma State coming together, in fact it was a part of a bigger package that initially included Baylor, that the Pac 12 rejected (or stalled negotiations) because they didn't want Baylor. Wasn't the original package deal Texas, OU, OSU and Baylor? Heck, I can't remember...slept since then. 

The Texoma group nearly left in 2010, and then it's my understanding that Boren tried to get the PAC to take OU/OSU together in 2011, but the PAC said no.  The takeaway from that (at the time--this is all pre-networks-being-big-deals) was that OU was valuable, but not valuable enough on its own to have any coattails.  It's pretty clear they were looking for Texas at the time or they weren't looking.

Things could be different now, though.  PAC Network isn't successful, and OU/OSU content is probably worth more--especially to the PAC--than ever before.  That's why I think, if the Big 12 does fall apart, that a Texoma group decamps for the PAC:  they're the two groups that can do the most for each other.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The Texoma group nearly left in 2010, and then it's my understanding that Boren tried to get the PAC to take OU/OSU together in 2011, but the PAC said no.  The takeaway from that (at the time--this is all pre-networks-being-big-deals) was that OU was valuable, but not valuable enough on its own to have any coattails.  It's pretty clear they were looking for Texas at the time or they weren't looking.

Things could be different now, though.  PAC Network isn't successful, and OU/OSU content is probably worth more--especially to the PAC--than ever before.  That's why I think, if the Big 12 does fall apart, that a Texoma group decamps for the PAC:  they're the two groups that can do the most for each other.

I agree. I used to think that OU wanted the SEC West and would drag OSU along and the SEC would agree. After further consideration and the emergence of the CFP system, I think OU goes West and I think that if the Big 12 break up occurs, the Pac 12 would happily accept a grouping of OU, Okla State, TCU and yes, even Texas Tech. Texas won't go (though it would be a good move for them) because I believe that they think they can garner the same deal that Notre Dame has by having complete control over their schedule and earn their way (eventually) into the CFP's.

The group of 4 I listed above helps eliminate Colorado as a most eastern and somewhat removed part of the Pac 12 and creates a 8 team division in the East that would include the Arizona schools and Utah. OU would be for it because it would bolster western recruiting and most years, the Division championship would be decided among Oklahoma, TCU and Utah. It wouldn't be like playing within the Bullet Blender that is the SEC West and then having to face the East division champ in the SECCG.

Ultimately I could see the SEC West scooping up Baylor (good football, good basketball, higher academics) and Kansas (Vanderbilt type football, great basketball and great academics). But hey, JMO. And opinions change as times change as well.

[Hogwild]

I agree. I used to think that OU wanted the SEC West and would drag OSU along and the SEC would agree. After further consideration and the emergence of the CFP system, I think OU goes West and I think that if the Big 12 break up occurs, the Pac 12 would happily accept a grouping of OU, Okla State, TCU and yes, even Texas Tech. Texas won't go (though it would be a good move for them) because I believe that they think they can garner the same deal that Notre Dame has by having complete control over their schedule and earn their way (eventually) into the CFP's.


Ultimately I could see the SEC West scooping up Baylor (good football, good basketball, higher academics) and Kansas (Vanderbilt type football, great basketball and great academics). But hey, JMO. And opinions change as times change as well.

No way either of these would ever happen.  Neither makes an financial sense.

The Southeastern Conference will distribute $436.8 million out of an NCAA-record $455.8 million in revenues between its 14 institutions, it was announced Friday.

divided by 14, that's 31.2 million per school.  In order for 16 schools to receive a similar payout the conference would have to earn $500 million. Kansas and Baylor aren't going to bring in an additional 65 million for the conference. The SEC already has a footprint in Texas, Baylor brings nothing. The state of Kansas has a population under 3 million, many in the Kansas City Area, which is serviced in part by Missouri.

The conference(PAC 12) reported just over $374 million in total revenue for a fiscal year ending June 30, 2014 — a figure that includes income from the wholly conference-owned Pac-12 Networks

That's 31.16 million per school, adding 4 additional teams would require those teams to bring in $125 million, to maintain the current payout. That's before you factor in increased travel cost.  It made more sense to add Colorado & Utah.

Colorado & Utah= combined population of 7.8 mill
OU & OK State= combined population of 3.7 mill

[MuskogeeHogFan]

No way either of these would ever happen.  Neither makes an financial sense.

divided by 14, that's 31.2 million per school.  In order for 16 schools to receive a similar payout the conference would have to earn $500 million. Kansas and Baylor aren't going to bring in an additional 65 million for the conference. The SEC already has a footprint in Texas, Baylor brings nothing. The state of Kansas has a population under 3 million, many in the Kansas City Area, which is serviced in part by Missouri.

That's 31.16 million per school, adding 4 additional teams would require those teams to bring in $125 million, to maintain the current payout. That's before you factor in increased travel cost.  It made more sense to add Colorado & Utah.

Colorado & Utah= combined population of 7.8 mill
OU & OK State= combined population of 3.7 mill

Think more in terms of drawing national viewers and don't just think about state populations. You think that the only people who have tuned in to watch Baylor's high flying offense are those from Texas? You think the only people who tune in to watch Kansas play basketball are from Kansas? Oklahoma as an example, has one of the highest Nielsen ratings in the country when they play on t.v. and that isn't merely derived from viewers in Oklahoma. Same with their basketball?

30 or 40 years ago it might have been more about in-state population and potential viewers, but times have changed and t.v. packages are the big draw. If you have a team that people want to watch on t.v., that team brings a lot more to the table than just their state population.

[Inhogswetrust]

I agree. I used to think that OU wanted the SEC West and would drag OSU along and the SEC would agree. After further consideration and the emergence of the CFP system, I think OU goes West and I think that if the Big 12 break up occurs, the Pac 12 would happily accept a grouping of OU, Okla State, TCU and yes, even Texas Tech. Texas won't go (though it would be a good move for them) because I believe that they think they can garner the same deal that Notre Dame has by having complete control over their schedule and earn their way (eventually) into the CFP's.

The group of 4 I listed above helps eliminate Colorado as a most eastern and somewhat removed part of the Pac 12 and creates a 8 team division in the East that would include the Arizona schools and Utah. OU would be for it because it would bolster western recruiting and most years, the Division championship would be decided among Oklahoma, TCU and Utah. It wouldn't be like playing within the Bullet Blender that is the SEC West and then having to face the East division champ in the SECCG.

Ultimately I could see the SEC West scooping up Baylor (good football, good basketball, higher academics) and Kansas (Vanderbilt type football, great basketball and great academics). But hey, JMO. And opinions change as times change as well.

Not their first choice but Kansas yes if under the right scenario. No way the SEC takes Baylor over any of the following if available: TCU, Clemson, VT, FSU, UVA, NC or NCS. Don't get me wrong Baylor is a great academic school ( my wife's Matron of Honor graduated from there) and they have money.

[Hogwild]

Think more in terms of drawing national viewers and don't just think about state populations. You think that the only people who have tuned in to watch Baylor's high flying offense are those from Texas? You think the only people who tune in to watch Kansas play basketball are from Kansas? Oklahoma as an example, has one of the highest Nielsen ratings in the country when they play on t.v. and that isn't merely derived from viewers in Oklahoma. Same with their basketball?

30 or 40 years ago it might have been more about in-state population and potential viewers, but times have changed and t.v. packages are the big draw. If you have a team that people want to watch on t.v., that team brings a lot more to the table than just their state population.

You have it backwards, in state populations are more important than ever, due to the conference networks (SEC Network, Pac 12 network....) For example the SEC charges $1.30 per subscriber if you are inside the conference footprint, and only 25 cents outside the SEC markets. Adding A&M & Mizzou meant over 25 million from increased revenue from the SEC Network. The reason the Big 10 expanded with Rutgers & Maryland wasn't because of their national appeal, it was because of the Washington DC & New York City markets. 

30 or 40 years ago their were no cable sport stations everything was national.  Teams like Nebraska and Oklahoma were top draws, now with regional markets Rutgers has become more valuable than West Virginia.  There is no way the SEC would want Baylor or Kansas.  If the SEC would expand it would be in North Carolina and Virginia, not a 4th/5th best program in Texas.

[Supermark101]

You have it backwards, in state populations are more important than ever, due to the conference networks (SEC Network, Pac 12 network....) For example the SEC charges $1.30 per subscriber if you are inside the conference footprint, and only 25 cents outside the SEC markets. Adding A&M & Mizzou meant over 25 million from increased revenue from the SEC Network. The reason the Big 10 expanded with Rutgers & Maryland wasn't because of their national appeal, it was because of the Washington DC & New York City markets. 

30 or 40 years ago their were no cable sport stations everything was national.  Teams like Nebraska and Oklahoma were top draws, now with regional markets Rutgers has become more valuable than West Virginia.  There is no way the SEC would want Baylor or Kansas.  If the SEC would expand it would be in North Carolina and Virginia, not a 4th/5th best program in Texas.

This was very true during the last set of realignment. The next set of realignment will be all about the quality of content. With subscriber bases shrinking, keeping people form canceling cable will give the conferences power. power to go to cable\satellite companies and demand more per subscriber.

And don't think it's just about football either. With it's new TV deal each NCAA Tournament game played in makes the conference 1.59 million dollars. Football is still king, but basketball is worth investing in.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/15071018/atlantic-coast-conference-set-shatter-record-money-earned-ncaa-men-basketball-tournament

[Hogwild]

While basketball revenue is greater than all sports, but one.

The ACC set the all time high with 25 units this year, it will bring the ACC $39 million paid out over six years.
The SEC brought in $160 million this past season in bowl payouts. 

Kentucky made 10x more money from football postseason than from NCAA basketball tourney, and they didn't even go to a bowl game.

[Supermark101]

While basketball revenue is greater than all sports, but one.

The ACC set the all time high with 25 units this year, it will bring the ACC $39 million paid out over six years.
The SEC brought in $160 million this past season in bowl payouts. 

Kentucky made 10x more money from football postseason than from NCAA basketball tourney, and they didn't even go to a bowl game.

I'm not sure where you pulled the 160 number from but it wasn't nearly that much
http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/sec-bowl-game-payouts-keep-getting-bigger-bigger/
And the ACC isn't far behind.

"The ACC set the all time high with 25 units this year, it will bring the ACC $39 million paid out over six years."
"The 25 units are worth at least $39.9 million. The ACC guaranteed itself at least $32.8 million from the 21 units it brought home in last year's tournament."
If they continue to do so, it will be 230 million, or more, paid over 6 years, not just 39. I never said basketball is bigger. It should not be ignored.

[Hogwild]

I'm not sure where you pulled the 160 number from but it wasn't nearly that much
http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/sec-bowl-game-payouts-keep-getting-bigger-bigger/
And the ACC isn't far behind.

"The ACC set the all time high with 25 units this year, it will bring the ACC $39 million paid out over six years."
"The 25 units are worth at least $39.9 million. The ACC guaranteed itself at least $32.8 million from the 21 units it brought home in last year's tournament."
If they continue to do so, it will be 230 million, or more, paid over 6 years, not just 39. I never said basketball is bigger. It should not be ignored.

First sentence in the second paragraph from your link is-

All told, the SEC and its teams stand to haul in more than $160 million in bowl payouts during the 2015-16 campaign.

[Murr]

Not their first choice but Kansas yes if under the right scenario. No way the SEC takes Baylor over any of the following if available: TCU, Clemson, VT, FSU, UVA, NC or NCS. Don't get me wrong Baylor is a great academic school ( my wife's Matron of Honor graduated from there) and they have money.

I would have to guess the SEC's shopping list would be pretty much limited to:
Texas, OU, UNC, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Duke, FSU, Kansas, and maybe NC State

Those would be the only realistically available programs that would add value to the SEC

[Inhogswetrust]

I would have to guess the SEC's shopping list would be pretty much limited to:
Texas, OU, UNC, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Duke, FSU, Kansas, and maybe NC State

Those would be the only realistically available programs that would add value to the SEC

I doubt if Duke is on any list from the SEC office.

[Hawghiggs]

 TCU has value to the SEC. If OU decides to go to the Big 10 or PAC 12. Look for the SEC to try and lure Okie state and TCU.

[Inhogswetrust]

TCU has value to the SEC. If OU decides to go to the Big 10 or PAC 12. Look for the SEC to try and lure Okie state and TCU.

OSU maybe, TCU doubtful.

[LZH]

So you have to be an attorney to enjoy a spirited debate? Unbelievable. IF only attorney's can debate then Hogville would only have a small number of members and wouldn't be any fun at all. You like to debate on here as much as anybody and get your dander up as much as anybody. Also WHO said that ALL off the Bama people wanted Mizzou in the east? Maybe it was a majority and maybe not. The thing is the PTB;'s there apparently did. They don't always speak for the majority similarly to elected politicians. Besides we all know times change. I guess you don't like that............Case in point, your droning on in the past anytime the subject now known as the BSD showed up on here. Besides Auburn already has a BIG recruiting base in talent rich Georgia and Florida already. Any move by them would not affect Bama's recruiting there that much.   

Must have missed the movie....

[bphi11ips]

OSU maybe, TCU doubtful.

Dallas-Ft. Worth MSA = 6.5M
Stillwater pop. = 77,800

I Googled "Stillwater MSA" and got "Did you mean 'Stillwater YMCA'"?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Dallas-Ft. Worth MSA = 6.5M
Stillwater pop. = 77,800

I Googled "Stillwater MSA" and got "Did you mean 'Stillwater YMCA'"?

Yeah, because we all know that only people from the DFW or Stillwater areas attend or watch TCU or OSU play.

[lefty08]

The biggest way I can see the SEC expansion expecting us is a negative. Mizzou moving to the west would create a void in our permanent rival. The way things typically go for us, I'd expect the new rival to be Clemson or florida st. I doubt we catch a break with a lesser team, it will probably be a national power we have to play every year

[Inhogswetrust]

Dallas-Ft. Worth MSA = 6.5M
Stillwater pop. = 77,800

I Googled "Stillwater MSA" and got "Did you mean 'Stillwater YMCA'"?

It's not that clear cut. Ask yourself WHY TCU was not included in the original little 12/SWC merger. I've been to both areas places quite a few times. There are a LOT of OSU alums and fans in the DFW area. It's not different than having large number of Hog fans there or any other school that is not in the state of Texas yet has that. They have more fans than TCU does overall. TCU is not a big fish in the Texas scene and overall. We already have one of those with the Aggies. Yes the Frogs have been good as of late I'll give them credit for that. With OSU we would also add the state of Oklahoma as a viewer market as well as continue and boost the market share in Texas. More upside with that over strict local population. Population is important but draw is moreso. If local population was the only thing important then Arkansas would have never gotten into the SEC and West Virginia wouldn't be in the little 12, Miss State and Old Miss would be kicked out of the SEC along with the Hogs, Florida, Bama, Auburn, Mizzou, TAMU, etc., etc.

[Inhogswetrust]

Yeah, because we all know that only people from the DFW or Stillwater areas attend or watch TCU or OSU play.

Bingo.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The biggest way I can see the SEC expansion expecting us is a negative. Mizzou moving to the west would create a void in our permanent rival. The way things typically go for us, I'd expect the new rival to be Clemson or florida st. I doubt we catch a break with a lesser team, it will probably be a national power we have to play every year

You mean like 2011, 2012 and 2013 when S. Carolina was ranked in the top ten twice when we played them and in the top 15 the other time? It isn't like we haven't traveled that road before.

[GuvHog]

It's not that clear cut. Ask yourself WHY TCU was not included in the original little 12/SWC merger. I've been to both areas places quite a few times. There are a LOT of OSU alums and fans in the DFW area. It's not different than having large number of Hog fans there or any other school that is not in the state of Texas yet has that. They have more fans than TCU does overall. TCU is not a big fish in the Texas scene and overall. We already have one of those with the Aggies. Yes the Frogs have been good as of late I'll give them credit for that. With OSU we would also add the state of Oklahoma as a viewer market as well as continue and boost the market share in Texas. More upside with that over strict local population. Population is important but draw is moreso. If local population was the only thing important then Arkansas would have never gotten into the SEC and West Virginia wouldn't be in the little 12, Miss State and Old Miss would be kicked out of the SEC along with the Hogs, Florida, Bama, Auburn, Mizzou, TAMU, etc., etc.

If I remember correctly, the reason Why TCU wasn't included in the original Big 12/PAC 10 merger deal is because the PAC 10 didn't want a private religious university. They wouldn't invite BYU for that same reason.

[GuvHog]

The biggest way I can see the SEC expansion expecting us is a negative. Mizzou moving to the west would create a void in our permanent rival. The way things typically go for us, I'd expect the new rival to be Clemson or florida st. I doubt we catch a break with a lesser team, it will probably be a national power we have to play every year

The SEC agreed to eventually move Missouri to the West so they would accept the SEC invitation to join. Regardless of how the SEC expands, that will occur.

[bphi11ips]

Bingo.

All time ranking based upon final AP polls since 1936:

TCU             32
OSU             44

*Arkansas is 19.  Was about 15 when we entered the SEC.  Arkansas was a major player on national television when there were three networks and OSU and Tulsa were regular OOC rent-a-wins, which was right in the middle of Arkansas's 22-game winning streak against TCU.

Boone Pickens Stadium capacity - 60,000
Amon G. Carter Stadium - 45,000

Both have fresh lipstick.  OSU is entry level SEC, and TCU would have to say "Thank God for Vanderbilt". 

I don't think the SEC would consider either one.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

All time ranking based upon final AP polls since 1936:

TCU             32
OSU             44

*Arkansas is 19.  Was about 15 when we entered the SEC.  Arkansas was a major player on national television when there were three networks and OSU and Tulsa were regular OOC rent-a-wins, which was right in the middle of Arkansas's 22-game winning streak against TCU.

Boone Pickens Stadium capacity - 60,000
Amon G. Carter Stadium - 45,000

Both have fresh lipstick.  OSU is entry level SEC, and TCU would have to say "Thank God for Vanderbilt". 

I don't think the SEC would consider either one.

I still believe that for a variety of reasons involving sports and academics that Baylor and Kansas might be the two that might be added if Oklahoma and Oklahoma State head West. I cannot see any way possible that Texas joins any other conference unless they are assured of having at least a major part of the influence in conference policies. That isn't happening in the SEC, doubtful in the Big Ten or Pac 12, but maybe in the ACC. But they have a regional relevance problem if other big name Big 12 schools don't stick with them to help fill out a division in another conference.

[Inhogswetrust]

If I remember correctly, the reason Why TCU wasn't included in the original Big 12/PAC 10 merger deal is because the PAC 10 didn't want a private religious university. They wouldn't invite BYU for that same reason.

And maybe they knew that TCU was located in the state of Texas and there was no need to take that many teams from that one state. Really all they needed was one and better options were available. One other wouldn't hurt but it depended on gather footprint and what was brought to the table. I think it was Baylor that was the private school that we heard your deal about from the state of Texas. The fact is neither have a long term hardcore fan base. BYU might have also been talked about in that same manner BUT Utah was the better option in that state as well.

[Inhogswetrust]

The SEC agreed to eventually move Missouri to the West so they would accept the SEC invitation to join. Regardless of how the SEC expands, that will occur.

Do you have that in writing from the SEC office? I bet that was more of a rumor you heard. It was bantered about by fans but was it actually discussed and agreed upon by the PTB's?

[Inhogswetrust]

All time ranking based upon final AP polls since 1936:

TCU             32
OSU             44

*Arkansas is 19.  Was about 15 when we entered the SEC.  Arkansas was a major player on national television when there were three networks and OSU and Tulsa were regular OOC rent-a-wins, which was right in the middle of Arkansas's 22-game winning streak against TCU.

Boone Pickens Stadium capacity - 60,000
Amon G. Carter Stadium - 45,000

Both have fresh lipstick.  OSU is entry level SEC, and TCU would have to say "Thank God for Vanderbilt". 

I don't think the SEC would consider either one.

Agree on TCU but not OSU. IF OU was to someway remove itself from it's siamese twin and go to another conference besides the SEC then I would think OSU would get some serious discussion from the SEC.   

[Hawghiggs]

 TCU would be fine in the SEC. Nothing will change the fact that they are still located in Ft. Worth and the state of Texas produces a crap load of talent.

[Inhogswetrust]

TCU would be fine in the SEC. Nothing will change the fact that they are still located in Ft. Worth and the state of Texas produces a crap load of talent.

Talent that is spread among a lot of colleges both in and out of state. They aren't needed for exposure and viewership or as desirable as others in the state even if it was needed to have another one in it.

[ROASHE]

The only way to move Alabama and Auburn east is to replace them with Texas and Oklahoma.  This would be a natural extension west and would set up a mega conference recalling the old SEC in the East vs. the best of the old SWC/Big Eight plus Louisiana and Mississippi.  Texas and Oklahoma would bring their rivalry with them, and Texas/Arkansas and A&M/Texas would be restored.

I think the SEC is more likely to get to the inevitable 16 by adding Clemson and Florida State to the east and moving Missouri west.  14 is an odd number to divide into two divisions.  I don't think we'll see realignment until the SEC adds two teams.

Florida State and Clemson will never get into the SEC because of a long standing gentlemen's agreement between Florida, South Carolina, Kentucky, LSU, Georgia and Texas A&M (recently) to not vote for any team within those states for expansion. They don't want to lose the advantage of being the only SEC team in its state.

[westside_player]

It may not have gone over too well last time, but times change. I would imagine that the Pac 12 would love to add Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU and to a lesser extent, Texas Tech, but you have to take the bad with the good, especially when the good is that much better than anyone else you could hope to add to the conference.

That would create a likely 8 team division in the East of the Pac 16 of OU, OSU, TCU, Texas Tech, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State and maybe Utah. The West would be comprised of the remaining 8 members with one rotating cross-division game each year for each team. The financial strength in a t.v. package that they would gain overall by this expansion outweighs any number of reduced number of games in California that they might experience. JMO

This is a scenario I have predicted before. The Big 12 will eventually be the pac-10 east division. For the most part they will play each other. Then division kingpins  Oklahoma and USC will play for conference championship ideally.

I think if college football survives, and my theory on the eventual death of college football has been well documented, eventually we have north south east west conference with 16 per conference. Arkansas could land anywhere. AS for now I don't see any change taking place in the SEC alignment. You've got the big three in West, Bama, Auburn, Lsu, And a big 2 in east Florida, Georiga, plus 2 teams with ability any given year to serve as the third of a big 3; SC and Tennessee. Everyone else is a punching bag also-ran for them to pad their win totals

[Hawghiggs]

Talent that is spread among a lot of colleges both in and out of state. They aren't needed for exposure and viewership or as desirable as others in the state even if it was needed to have another one in it.

   There's nothing that the SEC can do to change the fact that the Longhorns don't want anything to do with this conference. Only A&M and UT can claim that they are more desirable than TCU. TCU as a program has been on the rise for a decade now. Sooner fans claim that the rise of TCU has been the reason that OU has trouble recruiting Texas.  Besides, the SEC doesn't need another powerhouse program. The only thing that is needed is more content for the network and a solid reason for the Alabama programs to move east.  With the addition of OSU and TCU the western division would realign with the UofA smack dab in the middle of the division.  How would this be bad for Arkansas?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

   There's nothing that the SEC can do to change the fact that the Longhorns don't want anything to do with this conference. Only A&M and UT can claim that they are more desirable than TCU. TCU as a program has been on the rise for a decade now. Sooner fans claim that the rise of TCU has been the reason that OU has trouble recruiting Texas.  Besides, the SEC doesn't need another powerhouse program. The only thing that is needed is more content for the network and a solid reason for the Alabama programs to move east.  With the addition of OSU and TCU the western division would realign with the UofA smack dab in the middle of the division.  How would this be bad for Arkansas?

Someone is going to land Baylor. It won't be the Pac 12 because they don't care to add a school with a religious affiliation. Of course they may maintain the same bias with the potential addition of TCU. So maybe that changes things? Would the Pac 12 (on the basis of that religious bias) then go for an eastern addition of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and Kansas? Kansas would only be agreed upon because of regional relevance to an eastern division, their academics and their basketball program and the Pac 12 would love to add the basketball programs of Oklahoma and Kansas.

So if that happens could we see both Baylor and TCU coming to the SEC? Neither are really a fit for the Big Ten. If Texas chose to join the ACC could we see the ACC making a move for one of those two schools as well? I think not simply because both schools are so far west and for that matter, the same goes for Texas, who I see going Independent.

But do we really want to add two more schools from Texas? It's possible, but likely? I could see one, but two?  I just don't see that happening.

If the Big 12 implodes I think the SEC goes for Baylor and Kansas to fill out the west (should Oklahoma and Oklahoma State go west together to the Pac 12), moving Alabama and Auburn to the East. Of course this leaves TCU on the bubble while K-State and Iowa State would probably be absorbed into the Big Ten.

Eventually the Big 12 will either expand (but who do they add?) or dissolve. If they intend to remain they had better start adding schools in the east like Cincinatti and Memphis that are closer to their eastern member, W. Virginia and who bring more than football to the table. Otherwise, I think the clock is ticking on the sustainability of the Big 12 and the next major move in expansion among the other P-5 conferences. JMO

[Hogwild]

If I remember correctly, the reason Why TCU wasn't included in the original Big 12/PAC 10 merger deal is because the PAC 10 didn't want a private religious university. They wouldn't invite BYU for that same reason.

The reason why TCU wasn't included in the Big 12/Pac 10 merger is that neither conference wanted them at the time.  TCU was a conference USA school until 2005, they then joined the Mountain West, when the Big East passed on them. The Big 12 then passed on TCU to replace Nebraska.  At the time of the merger TCU after trying for half dozen years was finally accepted to into the Big East, then A&M & Mizzou left, and TCU was finally accepted in the Big12. The only reason the invite occurred is because in the Big12 went below 10 teams there TV contract with Fox would have been voided.  TCU doesn't have nearly the value that some believe.

[Hawghiggs]

Someone is going to land Baylor. It won't be the Pac 12 because they don't care to add a school with a religious affiliation. Of course they may maintain the same bias with the potential addition of TCU. So maybe that changes things? Would the Pac 12 (on the basis of that religious bias) then go for an eastern addition of Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and Kansas? Kansas would only be agreed upon because of regional relevance to an eastern division, their academics and their basketball program and the Pac 12 would love to add the basketball programs of Oklahoma and Kansas.

So if that happens could we see both Baylor and TCU coming to the SEC? Neither are really a fit for the Big Ten. If Texas chose to join the ACC could we see the ACC making a move for one of those two schools as well? I think not simply because both schools are so far west and for that matter, the same goes for Texas, who I see going Independent.

But do we really want to add two more schools from Texas? It's possible, but likely? I could see one, but two?  I just don't see that happening.

If the Big 12 implodes I think the SEC goes for Baylor and Kansas to fill out the west (should Oklahoma and Oklahoma State go west together to the Pac 12), moving Alabama and Auburn to the East. Of course this leaves TCU on the bubble while K-State and Iowa State would probably be absorbed into the Big Ten.

Eventually the Big 12 will either expand (but who do they add?) or dissolve. If they intend to remain they had better start adding schools in the east like Cincinatti and Memphis that are closer to their eastern member, W. Virginia and who bring more than football to the table. Otherwise, I think the clock is ticking on the sustainability of the Big 12 and the next major move in expansion among the other P-5 conferences. JMO

I could see either Baylor or TCU to the SEC. But not both. It really depends on Oklahoma and what they want to do. If they wanted to come to the SEC. Then I think Okie state fallows them. But if OU and Kansas head elsewhere. Then I think that OSU and either Baylor or TCU would head to the SEC. Kinda feel the same when it comes to Texas. It just makes to much sense for the Longhorns to go independent in football and place everything else in the ACC just like Notre Dame. That would force ACC states to have to buy the longhorn network.

[uams1989]

As a Bama fan, admitting I don't speak for the University, but I don't care if Auburn goes to the East but it would create one big issue.

Bama and Auburn are going to play every year so it creates a problem with the permanent cross-division rivals. The older guard and UT fans want the Bama UT game to be played every year as well. Personally, I agree with Saban and go to a 9 game SEC schedule but unless that happens, moving Auburn without Bama causes scheduling problems.

I don't think you can move both under the current balance of power.

But, I don't think Bama is worried about Auburn gaining recruiting in Georgia or Florida. They're already there.

The only other thing I can see is that the two schools could play two weeks in a row if Auburn was in the East. As unhealthy as the rivalry is, I don't think that would be a good thing. Not sure the state of Alabama would survive that.

[Inhogswetrust]

Think more in terms of drawing national viewers and don't just think about state populations. You think that the only people who have tuned in to watch Baylor's high flying offense are those from Texas? You think the only people who tune in to watch Kansas play basketball are from Kansas? Oklahoma as an example, has one of the highest Nielsen ratings in the country when they play on t.v. and that isn't merely derived from viewers in Oklahoma. Same with their basketball?

30 or 40 years ago it might have been more about in-state population and potential viewers, but times have changed and t.v. packages are the big draw. If you have a team that people want to watch on t.v., that team brings a lot more to the table than just their state population.

Teams that people want to watch can change over time based on style and/or winning. What IF Baylor for example falls back to their norm of being average when Briles leaves and they have potentially have trouble finding coaches to keep them good. Populations of caring loyal fans that will watch either way and a team having some historical significance do matter.  Maybe not as much as before but it is a factor.