Board of Trustees to vote on RRS expansion next week

[greghog]

All I see in this is that,

The traditional Arkansas Fan is attending fewer and fewer games

And

The Corporate customer is attending more and more games.

And there are a lot of folks on here that think that's a good thing.

I don't think it is a matter of thinking it is a good thing, it is just dealing with reality.  I wish we sold out all of the "less expensive seats" (there aren't any "cheep seats" and needed to build more of them.  That just isn't that case, for lots of reasons. 

[greghog]

The people on the hill sometimes forget who has made this program. It was the people of the state that bought tickets and went to games when there was less than 30,000 people attending.Paying 5 dollars for ticket but being true Razorback fans and supporting the program. Then we got into the Razorback Foundation and the crazy schemes about having to give more to get the same 5 dollar ticketed seats.Then money became the driving force behind the program and special people were recognized as more important than the lowly 5 dollar ticket fan, because they gave more money. You can price yourself out of business if you are not careful.It is hard for the average fan to cough up 3500-4500 dollars for two tickets a year to see 7 home games. The fans will reach a point where they will say, i've had enough and will develop other interests and watch the games on tv. Then it will be difficult to fill the stadium and then less see where the program goes. Arkansas, is not abundant with a strong middle class population to support this kind of program. In the end they will kill the goose that laid the golden eggs.

We all look at the "good ole days" and miss the "cheap tickets."  If I remember correctly, in 1979 tickets were $15.00 (could be wrong, if someone remembers a different number, fine).  My folks had 6 season tickets.  Made a donation of $500 if I recall.  Using an inflation calculator, that makes the donation value of about $1,600 and ticket cost about $50.  6 tickets times $50, times 7 games is $2,100 ($2,400 if there are 8 home games).  That is $3,700 in today's dollars.  So, if there had been no price increases other than keeping up with inflation, that is where we are. 

That really wasn't cheap.  (Tickets were on about the 20 yard line, low, row 9 or 10, I don't know what 6 tickets in that location would cost today, I am sure someone on here knows).

[Hardcore Hoggy]

The bottom line is we have to keep up with the Jones. You certainly can't expect a top program unless you are willing to fund it like a top program.

[ricepig]

What's that mean?

When the bubble will burst? You seem so sure of it, I was just wanting to know the date of college football's collapse.

[Cinco de Hogo]

The bottom line is we have to keep up with the Jones. You certainly can't expect a top program unless you are willing to fund it like a top program.

I'm all for keeping up with the Joneses!  I'm assuming here that you do mean wins also?  I believe most fans want a winning program like from the 60,70&80 era.  I don't believe that the PTB are that committed though. 

Since we joined the SEC I have seen nothing of long term substance that tells me otherwise.  Is this it? Building bigger and better facilities?  Or is it just another the bureaucracy that's got to spend more and more money? 

Only time will tell but I would like to see some of ya'll that truly believe put a timeframe on your patience.

[Inhogswetrust]

The point is not really about the time value of inflation.  You have a logical point but that's not all there is to it. Arkansas has too many middle class people that each year get deeper in debt and more living paycheck to paycheck. The cost to attend these games for a couple or family of 3 or 4 has grown higher than the pace at which more and more people can keep up with it. It's not just ticket prices but people not getting job raises like they used to; rising costs for necessities etc.  The decision starts to become easier when it's time for the average family to look at a budget and make cutbacks. These people are supposed to be buying basketball tickets too remember?  Basketball built the Bud Walton but it's typically only 2/3's full on a good night anymore.

Like anything in the free enterprise world that has too rapid of a rise, college football will eventually suffer a major economic bust. Just like the stock markets, oil markets, housing markets have.  The correction will likely be to dissolve many smaller programs altogether and for bigger schools go back to much cheaper salaries for coaches, fewer scholarships, and cheaper tickets.   

You can say the same thing about more and more people in debt for ANY state. That isn't only in Arkansas. The problem with rising costs of necessities is that people think that some things are a necessity when they really aren't. As I said they don't seem to be cutting back on other unnecessary trips like going to the beach. Have you seen how those places have boomed in new buildings? Destin was a sleepy fishing village 50 years ago but not any more. The average size house has gone up in size AND amenities over the years. There are things average people don't have to have but WANT to have. Who really needs to have a 60 inch TV and a $150 monthly satellite or cable bill when they can only watch one channel at a time. What person really NEEDS to have a new smartphone and computer every two years and a plan for minutes and data they never use. How many families really need a HUGE gas guzzling SUV when a smaller car would do. I remember when my Dad, Mom, Sister and I went on a vacation trip a long time ago and we went in my Dad's Chevy Chevette with a deisel engine in it. We weren't small kids either. Here's a shocker for you. College sports attendance was never built on the average family buying season tickets and going to games all the time. Even so there have always been affordable seats for them just not the high dollar ones. You can go to a Hog game and sit in the upper deck and it is affordable. I think to many average families and others live WAY above their means. THAT is why they are in debt.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

When the bubble will burst? You seem so sure of it, I was just wanting to know the date of college football's collapse.

How many millions of $ vs. the number of seats? Wow!
Just curious when can we expect to see the return on the investment for the basketball practice facility? It was a "must", as well.

[HamSammich]

I love CFB and the hogs but that westside player is correct imo.... The CFB bubble will eventually burst.

It will come in either 2 ways.

1) lawsuits from concussions. CFB isn't the NFL. A few billion dollar lawsuits will cripple it.

2) paying players.... Because if you guys think Arkansas can compete with Notre Dame or USC that have millions of fans you are wrong. A kid will go to the place his likeness and autograph is worth the most. Someone selling his picture with autograph on eBay is going to have millions of more fans buying at other schools than Arkansas.

So yeah... I know what its like to express an opinion here that is contrary to "board thought", Ive been reading for years. But I don't care... Westside is correct. The Bubble will burst.


In the meantime we need to use the NCAAFB money and build as much stuff as possible. Stick while the iron is hot baby.

[ricepig]

How many millions of $ vs. the number of seats? Wow!
Just curious when can we expect to see the return on the investment for the basketball practice facility? It was a "must", as well.

How many millions are for the actual seats vs two new elevators, new BAC, new media area for games, new game day locker room, new concourse with new concessions, redo of existing suites, change out of the Boyle Academic Center to club use, new facade, etc.......

Did you donate to basketball practice facility? Who knows we could have been 10-22 without it, haha.

[ricepig]

I love CFB and the hogs but that westside player is correct imo.... The CFB bubble will eventually burst.

It will come in either 2 ways.

1) lawsuits from concussions. CFB isn't the NFL. A few billion dollar lawsuits will cripple it.

2) paying players.... Because if you guys think Arkansas can compete with Notre Dame or USC that have millions of fans you are wrong. A kid will go to the place his likeness and autograph is worth the most. Someone selling his picture with autograph on eBay is going to have millions of more fans buying at other schools than Arkansas.

So yeah... I know what its like to express an opinion here that is contrary to "board thought", Ive been reading for years. But I don't care... Westside is correct. The Bubble will burst.


In the meantime we need to use the NCAAFB money and build as much stuff as possible. Stick while the iron is hot baby.

2050?? 2150?? When.....2020?

[HamSammich]

When will a republican next be president? 2016? 2020? 2024? We don't know but we know it will happen eventually.


To answer your question it will be as soon as Bobby Joe Doe puts a bullet in his heart and is diagnosed with CTE linked to football at X school.... It will happen once the flood gates of litigation open. Inevitable imo.


To answer your question it will be as soon as a kid wins a lawsuit that will enable them to use their likeness to make money at sports memorabilia expos... when? I dunno but its inevitable.

Too feel anything but a sense of being lucky to be a fan in the golden era of CFB is wrong. Its not going to keep getting bigger and bigger as it stands now man. There is a bubble and a pendulum to everything in life. That bubble will burst and that pendulum will head in the other direction. It does on everything in the history of man.


Want a date that badly? screw it... I say 2018.

like that?

[ricepig]

When will a republican next be president? 2016? 2020? 2024? We don't know but we know it will happen eventually.


To answer your question it will be as soon as Bobby Joe Doe puts a bullet in his heart and is diagnosed with CTE linked to football at X school.... It will happen once the flood gates of litigation open. Inevitable imo.


To answer your question it will be as soon as a kid wins a lawsuit that will enable them to use their likeness to make money at sports memorabilia expos... when? I dunno but its inevitable.

Too feel anything but a sense of being lucky to be a fan in the golden era of CFB is wrong. Its not going to keep getting bigger and bigger as it stands now man. There is a bubble and a pendulum to everything in life. That bubble will burst and that pendulum will head in the other direction. It does on everything in the history of man.


Want a date that badly? screw it... I say 2018.

like that?

Of course there is a bubble, but the game has grown for 125 years, it might be another 125 before it bursts, in other words you're just stating an opinion on something we have no idea on, gothcha.

[HamSammich]

Of course there is a bubble, but the game has grown for 125 years, it might be another 125 before it bursts, in other words you're just stating an opinion on something we have no idea on, gothcha.

I guess you didn't get the memo....



Its a message board. Everyones opinions are as good as yours. Yes. My opinion is that CFB is heading towards a pendulum swing.

You are likely too young to remember... but americas sports were baseball and boxing. The pendulum always swings.

good day.

[ricepig]

I guess you didn't get the memo....



Its a message board. Everyones opinions are as good as yours. Yes. My opinion is that CFB is heading towards a pendulum swing.

You are likely too young to remember... but americas sports were baseball and boxing. The pendulum always swings.

good day.

I'm 57, lol, I was just letting you know that's all your opinion was, an opinion.

[westside_player]

When the bubble will burst? You seem so sure of it, I was just wanting to know the date of college football's collapse.

I think signs of it has already started. There's not a particular date. It may not all happen at once. The characteristics of the rise in popularity and dwindling popularity is similar to other major economic busts like the dot Com bubble for instance.  The  subprime auto lending field is the same way. When too much borrowed money goes in to something that's expendable  , where a  smarter collection of choices could have been made before it got to where it got, there's always a downfall.

I'm not suggesting college football is going to die or all collapse at once but it will take some economic hits. Banks foreclosing on construction loans, congress ordering to downsize etc. We are already seeing in basketball popularity dwindling to the point that the National Championship was on TBS. Most people that watched it 5 years ago forgot it was on.

[opineonswine]

I think signs of it has already started. There's not a particular date. It may not all happen at once.

I honestly think, and have said, that college football has peaked.  College basketball peaked several years ago and is now declining.

[bphi11ips]

I think signs of it has already started. There's not a particular date. It may not all happen at once. The characteristics of the rise in popularity and dwindling popularity is similar to other major economic busts like the dot Com bubble for instance.  The  subprime auto lending field is the same way. When too much borrowed money goes in to something that's expendable  , where a  smarter collection of choices could have been made before it got to where it got, there's always a downfall.

I'm not suggesting college football is going to die or all collapse at once but it will take some economic hits. Banks foreclosing on construction loans, congress ordering to downsize etc. We are already seeing in basketball popularity dwindling to the point that the National Championship was on TBS. Most people that watched it 5 years ago forgot it was on.

I don't see college football as being similarly situated to the dot.com bubble or the mortgage bubble.  Huge profits are driving expansion and new entrants into the market place, such as recruiting services and new bowl games.  I see bubbles there.  But there are no bubbles in Bryant-Denny, or Neyland, or Tiger Stadium, or The Big House, or Ohio Stadium, or DWRRS for that matter.  Demand for seats in these stadiums is not elastic because of the nature of the demand itself.  Attendance at college football games is a lifestyle developed over generations.  Social status plays largely into the equation, which is why there is demand for premium seats now even though the team is experiencing average success.  Loyalty also plays a big part in driving demand.

If anything threatens the future of football, not just college football, it's the lingering effects of the game itself, especially brain injuries.  Football may be in a similar place in 2016 as cigarettes were 40 years ago, when everyone seemed to have a parent or grandparent with lung cancer.  Is the danger of serious, life-changing injury worth the rush of the game itself?  As athletes get bigger, faster and stronger, change in the game itself seems inevitable.  We've seen a lot of that recently in rules designed to reduce helmet-to-helmet contact.  I think the game in the future looks more like 7 on 7 and flag football than the slugfests in the trenches we know.  At that point, I believe demand declines over decades, but not until generations obsessed by the sport have disappeared. 

I also believe that interest in college football will be seriously eroded when it becomes a minor league.  Professional status for college players is probably the most immediate threat to demand for college seats.

Finally, football is losing it's stranglehold on youth and high school sports.  It is still king, especially in Texas and the South, but more and more great athletes are turning to baseball and track as a path to an education and perhaps a career.  Video games also occupy much of the time that used to be spent outside playing games with friends in the neighborhood.

As society changes, so will football, but it won't be any time soon.     

[hog.goblin]

Interesting that Asa has removed any and all trustees who reside in NWA.  He is burning some bridges up here.

[Pig in the Pokey]

How many millions are for the actual seats vs two new elevators, new BAC, new media area for games, new game day locker room, new concourse with new concessions, redo of existing suites, change out of the Boyle Academic Center to club use, new facade, etc.......

Did you donate to basketball practice facility? Who knows we could have been 10-22 without it, haha.

#MonkWasntImpressed

[Pig in the Pokey]

I honestly think, and have said, that college football has peaked.  College basketball peaked several years ago and is now declining.

peak was Tim Teabow era imo

[ricepig]

Interesting that Asa has removed any and all trustees who reside in NWA.  He is burning some bridges up here.

Pryor is listed as residing in Fayetteville.

[PorkRyan]

I think signs of it has already started. There's not a particular date. It may not all happen at once. The characteristics of the rise in popularity and dwindling popularity is similar to other major economic busts like the dot Com bubble for instance.  The  subprime auto lending field is the same way. When too much borrowed money goes in to something that's expendable  , where a  smarter collection of choices could have been made before it got to where it got, there's always a downfall.

I'm not suggesting college football is going to die or all collapse at once but it will take some economic hits. Banks foreclosing on construction loans, congress ordering to downsize etc. We are already seeing in basketball popularity dwindling to the point that the National Championship was on TBS. Most people that watched it 5 years ago forgot it was on.

Reading through this thread and I think you are right on the money.  Colleges are struggling to fill their student sections across the country.  That generation seems more inclined to watch football on TV or not watch it at all.  That will become a huge problem moving forward.  The power 5 conferences will continue to be fine for the near future.  The first phase of the fallout will be in the non power 5 realm.  The next phase of the fallout will be when the TV contracts are less lucrative.  One of the biggest problems with athletic departments is that they have a spend every dime mindset.  With all of the fancy facilities and shiny toys needed to attract a recruit these days, the Universities spend every dime they have and every dime they expect to have.  What happens when the SEC TV contract gets cut from 30m to 20m?    I'm not even factoring in the potential concussion issues.  The NCAA is one potential concussion coverup away from being defunct.       

[hog.goblin]

Pryor is listed as residing in Fayetteville.

But he lives in Little Rock, just has a second home here.

All I'm asking for is one NWA resident.  I think the rest of the state is fairly well represented on the board, except too many danged attorneys.

[ricepig]

But he lives in Little Rock, just has a second home here.

All I'm asking for is one NWA resident.  I think the rest of the state is fairly well represented on the board, except too many danged attorneys.

It is kind of odd that there isn't a true NWA trustee, I guess he had some political debts to pay first.

[hog.goblin]

It is kind of odd that there isn't a true NWA trustee, I guess he had some political debts to pay first.

True, but he had some political debts up here too that got tossed aside.  I hate that politician is the one put in the position to appoint BOT members

[ricepig]

True, but he had some political debts up here too that got tossed aside.  I hate that politician is the one put in the position to appoint BOT members

Well, the Senate has to confirm them, except for those named to serve the rest of an unexpired term, and then the board confirms them.

[WizardofhOgZ]

I honestly think, and have said, that college football has peaked.  College basketball peaked several years ago and is now declining.

Not according to this report: http://www.footballfoundation.org/tabid/567/Article/55593/2015-Report-College-Football-Ratings-and-Attendance-Remain-Strong.aspx

[Michael D Huff AIA]

SIAP...According to the growth in the total revenue generated by the schools, we are not flatlining or declining.  That number is going up.  The exceptions lie in the schools that do receive lots of $$$ in subsidy from their respective state legislatures in states whose economies are in the toilet. (Re: Wisconsin)

2015 Top 10 schools revenue generation:  $1,339,858,025
2016 Top 10 schools revenue generation:  $1,517,006,149

That's an 11.68% increase. 

If that sort of increase is extrapolated out over a decade, (11.68% per year, every year) then the total revenue created will be $4,578,691,616.  For 10 schools.

I'm not sure that level of growth is sustainable, but more incremental growth might be.

[BPsTheMan]

can someone sticky a crib notes version of this?

[Tortfeasor]

So was it approved or not? 9 pages worth of drivel.

[FATHAWG08]

I honestly think, and have said, that college football has peaked.  College basketball peaked several years ago and is now declining.

As a Razorback Fan College Basketball peaked in 1994.

[Redhogs]

So was it approved or not? 9 pages worth of drivel.

This..??

[ricepig]

So was it approved or not? 9 pages worth of drivel.

You can read 9 pages of drivel, but can't Google your question? In short, they approved a construction manager, but haven't asked permission for a bond issue.

[Cinco de Hogo]

SIAP...According to the growth in the total revenue generated by the schools, we are not flatlining or declining.  That number is going up.  The exceptions lie in the schools that do receive lots of $$$ in subsidy from their respective state legislatures in states whose economies are in the toilet. (Re: Wisconsin)

2015 Top 10 schools revenue generation:  $1,339,858,025
2016 Top 10 schools revenue generation:  $1,517,006,149

That's an 11.68% increase. 

If that sort of increase is extrapolated out over a decade, (11.68% per year, every year) then the total revenue created will be $4,578,691,616.  For 10 schools.

I'm not sure that level of growth is sustainable, but more incremental growth might be.

Do you want to pay $4,578,691,616 more for watching ten teams play football over the next decade?  I don't and a lot of people are beginning to say the same thing.  People are cutting cost at home as it is.  This is what "all the drivel" is about.  Sorry someone doesn't get it.  Not talking about the person I quoted just using his notes!!!

[ricepig]

Do you want to pay $4,578,691,616 more for watching ten teams play football over the next decade?  I don't and a lot of people are beginning to say the same thing.  People are cutting cost at home as it is.  Thanks is what "all the drivel" is about.  Sorry someone doesn't get it.

You'll pay for it if you get ESPN or Fox.....

[Michael D Huff AIA]

If the same percentage increase happens at the University of Arkansas, in 10 years our yearly revenue will be $539,499,763.  That's about a 4.72x increase from this year's revenue number.  That number is directly out of the fans' pockets.  I'm going to go ahead and say that number is not possible or realistic (or necessary for that matter).  The breaking point for the average fan will have long since been reached and passed. 

I went back and looked at the numbers again, thinking that the top 10 teams' revenue increase was greater than the all-college average (231 teams). 

It's not.

The all-college growth from '15-'16 was 13.25%. 

Huge revenue increases are happening everywhere. 

[Cinco de Hogo]

You'll pay for it if you get ESPN or Fox.....

What happens if, after a lifetime of watching sports(a lot of that b4 ESPN and Fox) I decide to stop?  I actually watch very little of either anymore although I have both.  Things have been changing in my life...doubt that goes for very many though.  Seems the main concern with the cord cutters is still getting ESPN.

[ricepig]

What happens if, after a lifetime of watching sports(a lot of that b4 ESPN and Fox) I decide to stop?  I actually watch very little of either anymore although I have both.  Things have been changing in my life...doubt that goes for very many though.  Seems the main concern with the cord cutters is still getting ESPN.

Then you'll stop watching sports, but currently these networks have long term agreements that pay for this big explosion of coach's salaries, stadium upgrades, and other facilities for college sports programs.

[Inhogswetrust]

What happens if, after a lifetime of watching sports(a lot of that b4 ESPN and Fox) I decide to stop?  I actually watch very little of either anymore although I have both.  Things have been changing in my life...doubt that goes for very many though.  Seems the main concern with the cord cutters is still getting ESPN.

But cord cutters can still get ESPN vie internet access. We did it and have Roku. Costs us $25 per month instead of $145. No contract.

[Pork Twain]

I honestly think, and have said, that college football has peaked.  College basketball peaked several years ago and is now declining.

College football has been peaking for the last 100 years and basketball has never been bigger than football.

[bphi11ips]

College football has been peaking for the last 100 years

+1