Anderson's quote on Kingsley.......

[hobhog]

in todays ADG "Anderson told reporters after the teams banquet he expected Kingsley to declare for the draft".

Not good.

[FineAsSwine]

in todays ADG "Anderson told reporters after the teams banquet he expected Kingsley to declare for the draft".

Not good.

I thought this was to get an evaluation and then decide. So, is this a new development or just a continuation of the process of getting feedback?

[Atlhogfan1]

I thought this was to get an evaluation and then decide. So, is this a new development or just a continuation of the process of getting feedback?

Not new.  Not a dire situation YET. 

[jjdlc]

Its the samething that came out yesterday, it's just missing the information about him testing the waters, get evaluated, etc. and that he has till May 25th to pull his name out.

[Hawg Red]

in todays ADG "Anderson told reporters after the teams banquet he expected Kingsley to declare for the draft".

Not good.

Welcome to Monday night.

He's not hiring an agent right now, so I'd have to say that's considered a positive as it indicates that he is not committed to going pro in finality. The new rule changes by the NCAA have led to many players declaring for the draft. It would be odd, actually, if Moses is not declare. This was an expected outcome, so I'm not sure where the whole "not good" stuff is coming from.

[rzrbackramsfan]

in todays ADG "Anderson told reporters after the teams banquet he expected Kingsley to declare for the draft".

Not good.

Hog news moves fast and as hawg red alluded too, that's so two days ago.

To many posters disliking, Kingsley will come back, we'll be good next year, winning a lot of games including winning the sec regular season and make the tournament.  All the s16 "minimum expectations" will be forgotten and we'll all be thankful that were a respectable program once again that has even more good recruits coming in.

[SONofHAM]

In fairness to the op...not having the threads where we were discussing these topics in jump ball can be confusing.

[hobhog]

Hog news moves fast and as hawg red alluded too, that's so two days ago.

To many posters disliking, Kingsley will come back, we'll be good next year, winning a lot of games including winning the sec regular season and make the tournament.  All the s16 "minimum expectations" will be forgotten and we'll all be thankful that were a respectable program once again that has even more good recruits coming in.

I read it differently. "Declaring for the draft" sounds to me  like he expects him to go. I guess he just meant he was going to get evaluated.

I'm still in the minority and think a team takes a chance on him and he goes.....his upside is too huge.

[hobhog]

In fairness to the op...not having the threads where we were discussing these topics in jump ball can be confusing.

I did look for discussion about it before posting and saw nothing....

[Dropkick]

Hog news moves fast and as hawg red alluded too, that's so two days ago.

To many posters disliking, Kingsley will come back, we'll be good next year, winning a lot of games including winning the sec regular season and make the tournament.  All the s16 "minimum expectations" will be forgotten and we'll all be thankful that were a respectable program once again that has even more good recruits coming in.

That is a wonderful fantasy. I hope it somehow happens.........

[Hawg Red]

I read it differently. "Declaring for the draft" sounds to me  like he expects him to go. I guess he just meant he was going to get evaluated.

I'm still in the minority and think a team takes a chance on him and he goes.....his upside is too huge.

You have to declare for the draft to get officially evaluated. His upside is also not "huge." He doesn't have a modern NBA skillset. Too small to play center, too small of a frame, lacks the mechanics to consistently be a threat to stretch the defense, makes defensive plays but isn't really a strong individual defender. He's a marginal prospect and a fairly limited one at that. If his upside was huge, he'd be on draft boards right now in this projected weak draft and he'd certainly get invited to the NBA combine (but he won't).

[rzrbackramsfan]

That is a wonderful fantasy. I hope it somehow happens.........

If you look at what we have coming in/back and what other sec teams have coming back it's really not too far fetched.

[rzrbackramsfan]

One thing Kingsley does have going for him is that, even though he's a shorter center, his jumping ability makes up for it.

[Hawg Red]

One thing Kingsley does have going for him is that, even though he's a shorter center, his jumping ability makes up for it.

But is his leaping ability an advantage at the NBA level? I'd say it isn't. He's a good athlete but I'm not sure he's an exceptional athlete by NBA standards. Definitely up to standards but I don't see him out-athleting most NBA centers, who are bigger and just as athletic.

[rzrbackramsfan]

I remember hearing a rumor that Kingsley had a better very than qualls, if that's true, it would be pretty elite athleticism for a big man.  Of course I never really saw evidence of him having a very = to qualls

[Hawg Red]

I remember hearing a rumor that Kingsley had a better very than qualls, if that's true, it would be pretty elite athleticism for a big man.  Of course I never really saw evidence of him having a very = to qualls

We'll have to see about that when Kingsley works out for some teams, but Qualls had a 39.5-inch vertical. Tough to beat.

[HotlantaHog]

Mistake to go pro this year, but kids make mistakes all the time...

[Pork Twain]

In late breaking news, the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor

[opineonswine]

in todays ADG "Anderson told reporters after the teams banquet he expected Kingsley to declare for the draft".

Not good.

He told me the day after the banquet Kingsley was going to check things out but he felt pretty good he would decide to stay.

[hogsanity]

He told me the day after the banquet Kingsley was going to check things out but he felt pretty good he would decide to stay.

Didn't he say similar things last year about Qualls and maybe even Portis

[azhog10]

Didn't he say similar things last year about Qualls and maybe even Portis

As Mike Irwin has discussed, he said what he said about Portis because that's what Portis told him. Obviously things change once you meet and talk to folks, it could happen again. Although I would imagine the conversations with Moses are lot different than they were with Portis.

[Pork Twain]

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/moses-kingsley

[opineonswine]

Didn't he say similar things last year about Qualls and maybe even Portis

He qualified it by saying "things can obviously change".  It's not Mike's decision after all.

[hogsanity]

He qualified it by saying "things can obviously change".  It's not Mike's decision after all.

I agree, just saying people should not read into his saying he thinks he'll be back. Until he takes his name out of the draft, no one knows if he will be back or not. I doubt right now even Moses knows.

[Paul]

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/moses-kingsley

h I think he will be a good backup center/power forward for many yrs in the NBA

[HogBreath]

h I think he will be a good backup center/power forward for many yrs in the NBA

I would imagine MK's best basketball is in front of him, especially if he can get in to the right situation/right team.

But then, I've always been a pretty big fan of his.

[OperationRestoreHawgBall]

Kingsley getting paper next year, maybe in europe, is my guess. Point is, we need to come to terms with his absence, and also need to come to terms with mike getting fired.

[HF#1]

Kingsley getting paper next year, maybe in europe, is my guess. Point is, we need to come to terms with his absence, and also need to come to terms with mike getting fired.

Shouldn't be difficult to come to terms with that.  Many already have.

[Danny J]

Kingsley getting paper next year, maybe in europe, is my guess. Point is, we need to come to terms with his absence, and also need to come to terms with mike getting fired.

I have resigned myself to both....I would be surprised if he comes back but if he does then I think it is 50/50 that cma keeps his job. No moses means no dance means looking for new coach IMHO....

[Razorhogger]

In late breaking news, the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor

That WOULD be breaking news.

[pigture perfect]

He's not ready, but since when did that matter in the NBA? The will draft potential.

[hogsanity]

He's not ready, but since when did that matter in the NBA? The will draft potential.

And you base your assessment that he is not ready on what?

[jry04]

He's not ready, but since when did that matter in the NBA? The will draft potential.

And his potential is much lower than other guys at the same position in this draft. I see hogville throw out that the NBA drafts on potential, but the people who get paid to run draft sites and and NBA analysts still have Moses going undrafted. If his potential was as good as everyone on Hogville thinks, then he would start to pop up in some mock drafts. He isn't a good prospect for this draft. If he goes pro it will be because he is ok with going overseas. Everyone on Hogville are draft experts when it comes to one of our player's being drafted, but the actual people who are considered draft experts usually disagree with our fans.

[yraciv]

Here is a list of posts projected as 2nd round picks right now by people who actually get paid to evaluate these things. Most of theses guys other than Maker, you might be familiar with: And even with my most Hog colored glasses, only could I make a case for Kingsley over Onuaku or Uthoff and that would be a stretch.
Bryce Johnson
A.J. Hammons
Thon Maker
Chinanu Onuaku   
Benjamin Bentil   
Jarrod Uthoff   
Perry Ellis   

[hogsanity]

And his potential is much lower than other guys at the same position in this draft. I see hogville throw out that the NBA drafts on potential, but the people who get paid to run draft sites and and NBA analysts still have Moses going undrafted. If his potential was as good as everyone on Hogville thinks, then he would start to pop up in some mock drafts. He isn't a good prospect for this draft. If he goes pro it will be because he is ok with going overseas. Everyone on Hogville are draft experts when it comes to one of our player's being drafted, but the actual people who are considered draft experts usually disagree with our fans.

and they are also experts on what a young man should do with his life. If he wants to try to get paid to play ball, be it in the nba or overseas, then we should all hope he succeeds.

[jry04]

and they are also experts on what a young man should do with his life. If he wants to try to get paid to play ball, be it in the nba or overseas, then we should all hope he succeeds.

NOBODY said that. Why would anyone hope he doesn't succeed? NBA draft "experts" are paid to evaluate draft prospects for the NBA, not overseas. Moses would make a healthy living overseas. Our fans keep saying he may get drafted higher because the the NBA drafts on potential. If Moses stays in the draft it isn't because he thinks he will make the NBA, because the NBA won't give him feedback telling him to stay in the draft. If he leaves, it is because he is fine with leaving early and is content with playing professionally overseas. The only way Moses is making 6 figures next year is if it is in another country. There is NOTHING wrong with that. However, this idea that Moses could get drafted and stick on a NBA roster next season is silly because literally NOBODY outside of our fan base has even mentioned it as a possibility. That is the only point I was trying to make. If he leaves that is his decision, and one he has a right to make. He needs to do what is best for him and his family, and nobody can tell him what is best for him going forward. They can only tell him what is his best way to make the NBA if that is his goal. At no point was I saying he is an idiot for potentially leaving.

[SONofHAM]

NOBODY said that. Why would anyone hope he doesn't succeed? NBA draft "experts" are paid to evaluate draft prospects for the NBA, not overseas. Moses would make a healthy living overseas. Our fans keep saying he may get drafted higher because the the NBA drafts on potential. If Moses stays in the draft it isn't because he thinks he will make the NBA, because the NBA won't give him feedback telling him to stay in the draft. If he leaves, it is because he is fine with leaving early and is content with playing professionally overseas. The only way Moses is making 6 figures next year is if it is in another country. There is NOTHING wrong with that. However, this idea that Moses could get drafted and stick on a NBA roster next season is silly because literally NOBODY outside of our fan base has even mentioned it as a possibility. That is the only point I was trying to make. If he leaves that is his decision, and one he has a right to make. He needs to do what is best for him and his family, and nobody can tell him what is best for him going forward. They can only tell him what is his best way to make the NBA if that is his goal. At no point was I saying he is an idiot for potentially leaving.

You seem a little emotional.  I don't see where sanity said or implied anything about you.  It's also tough to listen to someone yelling that "fans don't know anything" when all you've done is tell us what is going to happen.

[hogsanity]

NOBODY said that. Why would anyone hope he doesn't succeed? NBA draft "experts" are paid to evaluate draft prospects for the NBA, not overseas. Moses would make a healthy living overseas. Our fans keep saying he may get drafted higher because the the NBA drafts on potential. If Moses stays in the draft it isn't because he thinks he will make the NBA, because the NBA won't give him feedback telling him to stay in the draft. If he leaves, it is because he is fine with leaving early and is content with playing professionally overseas. The only way Moses is making 6 figures next year is if it is in another country. There is NOTHING wrong with that. However, this idea that Moses could get drafted and stick on a NBA roster next season is silly because literally NOBODY outside of our fan base has even mentioned it as a possibility. That is the only point I was trying to make. If he leaves that is his decision, and one he has a right to make. He needs to do what is best for him and his family, and nobody can tell him what is best for him going forward. They can only tell him what is his best way to make the NBA if that is his goal. At no point was I saying he is an idiot for potentially leaving.

Calm down. I was not talking about anyone in particular.  However, you won't have to do much a search to find plenty of posters saying Moses should stay in school, Moses isn't ready for the NBA, etc.

Fans do not know anything close to what is best for an individual player. We do not know their family situation, their ultimate playing goals, if they feel they have developed as much as they can in the college game, or any of the other 100 things that might go into this type of decision.  What we as fans do is want guys to stay if it will help our team. I wanted the football players who left early to all stay for their sr seasons, selfishly, because i knew that would make the football team better in 2016.

[Hawg Red]

The perception problem we seem to be having here with this debate about Moses' pro potential is that the vast majority of posters here (based on their comments in posts) are fans that really only watch college ball, if they watch any basketball at all. There aren't a lot of posters here who really know what's going on in the NBA right now. I get the sense that a lot of posters view Moses as "a big man" that had a great season, so in their minds, naturally he must have a lot of NBA potential.

The reality is this -- Moses isn't really a "big man" prospect for the NBA because he actually lacks size to be an NBA center or post player. He has okay height at 6'9 or maybe even 6'10 (he measured at 6'9.5 in shoes in 2012 at the LeBron and Amar'e camps -- could have grown a tad or those are generous measurements). That makes him a smallish center height-wise. He's listed at 230 pounds. I question that. Wouldn't shock me if that was legit because you can tell by looking at his arms that he's ripped. He doesn't have much fat on him. But he has a small frame. Look at his hips, very narrow. His shoulders are not very broad. Again, his ripped/jacked (whatever you want to call it) but he's also has somewhat of a compact frame for a big. He's as big as he's gonna get, so there's no "get in an NBA weight room and put some weight on him." And he's not that kind of player anyway. He's a mobile guy with ability. That could serve him well as a rim-runner at the NBA level, but again, he's undersized if you consider him a center. If you want try to convert him to the 4, how does he translate? At the 4 or 5, he needs work on his post moves. A lot of his points are on effort plays or in transition. But, in the NBA and at his size, he's going to have to be able to shoot if he can't handle his own in the paint. Some fans might think that won't be a problem for him because he showed the ability to step out and hit a jumper this season. True, but look at his form. It's not really there. He doesn't square up. He just kinda decides to shoot it and it goes in or it doesn't. He doesn't have the skillset to take an educated jumper. That's why he's a shaky FT shooter. He doesn't have the shot mechanics to be a stretch 4. These are very big things that I don't think most fans that post here really understand because they don't like/pay attention to the NBA. The NBA plays a much more sophisticated game than college basketball, despite what the perception might be because the league is as young as it's ever been and you might seen young guys out there struggling to put things together early on. Moses is a fine college center but he's a marginal NBA prospect by a country mile at this point.

He showed great improvement from sophomore to junior season, so it's reasonable that he could put his nose to the grindstone this summer and make himself more valuable in the eyes of the NBA. But if he goes pro now, it's not because the NBA told him it was a good idea. The best he's going to get at this time is "maybe middle to late 2nd round." A similar but probably a little less optimistic outlook that Qualls had. Michael Qualls was/is a better NBA prospect than Kingsley, and he had major flaws himself. Moses is going to be 22 during the first two weeks of the NBA season, so he's not a young prospect anymore. NBA teams aren't going to look him and think they have time to mold him like they do these young freshmen and sophomores. If Moses really wants to make the NBA, his best chance is to come back, work on his game (post and shot mechanics, as well tightening up defensively) and put together another good season so teams see that he wasn't a one-hit wonder and he can do some things that apply to the modern NBA game.

[King Kong]

Mic Drop for Hawg Red

[jry04]

You seem a little emotional.  I don't see where sanity said or implied anything about you.  It's also tough to listen to someone yelling that "fans don't know anything" when all you've done is tell us what is going to happen.

Not emotional, must have misread. I am going off dozens of people who are paid to project prospects, with none of them projecting Moses to the NBA in this draft. Pretty easy to see. Half our fan base says he is definitely gone, and will probably get drafted because the NBA drafts on potential. If you do not fall in that category, then the post was not addressing you. I am wrong a lot, but this is one thing I will not be wrong about. He will be overseas or at Arkansas when the next season starts.

[jry04]

Calm down. I was not talking about anyone in particular.  However, you won't have to do much a search to find plenty of posters saying Moses should stay in school, Moses isn't ready for the NBA, etc.

Fans do not know anything close to what is best for an individual player. We do not know their family situation, their ultimate playing goals, if they feel they have developed as much as they can in the college game, or any of the other 100 things that might go into this type of decision.  What we as fans do is want guys to stay if it will help our team. I wanted the football players who left early to all stay for their sr seasons, selfishly, because i knew that would make the football team better in 2016.

I thought you were saying that about me. My apologies. We agree. If he goes, he will be just fine in a euro league and make more than most of us ever would.  I will not pretend to know anything about his personal life, so no idea how much of an impact that will play.

Mike Irwin said Moses does not have much interest in playing in Europe and his girlfriend is still at the U of A, so a Euro team will have to offer a lot more than market value to get him to sign. If that is true, we have that in our favor.

[Hawg Red]

Mike Irwin said Moses does not have much interest in playing in Europe and his girlfriend is still at the U of A, so a Euro team will have to offer a lot more than market value to get him to sign. If that is true, we have that in our favor.

If these things are true, I don't see any reason why he won't be back next season. The NBA Draft combine is May 11-15 (coincidentally, I will be in Chicago on those exact same dates), so we should know something a little before then. If you're testing the waters, and you don't get invited to the combine, you should know everything you need to about where you stand. Especially considering how many top prospects skip the combine now. Don't even show up to get measured like they used to.

[hogsanity]

we have that in our favor.

It is comments like this I am talking about, "our favor". What is in "our" best interest should not matter one bit when talking about an individual player. Again, not singling you out, I did the same thing with Collins, Kirkland and Henry after last football season.

[jry04]

It is comments like this I am talking about, "our favor". What is in "our" best interest should not matter one bit when talking about an individual player. Again, not singling you out, I did the same thing with Collins, Kirkland and Henry after last football season.

This is an Arkansas message board. "Our" favor, being the University of Arkansas. I am a fan of the Razorbacks, so I want what is best for the Razorbacks. I am a season ticket holder that wants to see the best basketball possible for each game I attend. Moses going pro does NOTHING for my self interest. That does not mean I think he owes us anything, or that it is our job to tell him what decision he should make. If Moses decides to go, I will not blame him and will continue to root for him to do well. With that said, I will still be disappointed because it means Arkansas basketball will struggle again next season. It is no different than Bobby Portis last season. As a fan, I wanted him to come back because we would be a top 25 team. The right decision for him was to go pro. If Moses sees going pro as the right decision for him, then I will hope he does well and follow his career like any other Razorback before him. I will be happy for what he contributed while here and that he put himself in a position to make a career out of doing what he loves, but also wonder "what if" next season without Moses because that is part of being a fan.

[azhog10]

This is an Arkansas message board. "Our" favor, being the University of Arkansas. I am a fan of the Razorbacks, so I want what is best for the Razorbacks. I am a season ticket holder that wants to see the best basketball possible for each game I attend. Moses going pro does NOTHING for my self interest. That does not mean I think he owes us anything, or that it is our job to tell him what decision he should make. If Moses decides to go, I will not blame him and will continue to root for him to do well. With that said, I will still be disappointed because it means Arkansas basketball will struggle again next season. It is no different than Bobby Portis last season. As a fan, I wanted him to come back because we would be a top 25 team. The right decision for him was to go pro. If Moses sees going pro as the right decision for him, then I will hope he does well and follow his career like any other Razorback before him. I will be happy for what he contributed while here and that he put himself in a position to make a career out of doing what he loves, but also wonder "what if" next season without Moses because that is part of being a fan.

Going to be honest, 60% of me wants CMA and the hogs to succeed. 40% of me thinks that maybe my life on hogville would be a lot better if CMA was fired and I didn't have to read hogsanity and his negative post over and over again. Of course there's no assurance that once the new hire happened that he wouldn't be complaining then too. So idk what to think.

[Hawg Red]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a fan simply wishing a player would come back. Sure, it's kinda selfish, but that's a pretty big aspect of being a fan, I think. A fan should not be expected to desire any outcome for a player outside of what A) benefits the fan/the fan's team and/or B) what is in the fan's best interest. There is no reason at this juncture to operate under the assumption that it is in Moses' best interest to go pro. Only Moses or his family can know that. Rational Hog fans will support him no matter his decision. He's been a model Razorback.

[Swinesong1]

Going to be honest, 60% of me wants CMA and the hogs to succeed. 40% of me thinks that maybe my life on hogville would be a lot better if CMA was fired and I didn't have to read hogsanity and his negative post over and over again. Of course there's no assurance that once the new hire happened that he wouldn't be complaining then too. So idk what to think.

+1000!

[hogsanity]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a fan simply wishing a player would come back. Sure, it's kinda selfish, but that's a pretty big aspect of being a fan, I think. A fan should not be expected to desire any outcome for a player outside of what A) benefits the fan/the fan's team and/or B) what is in the fan's best interest. There is no reason at this juncture to operate under the assumption that it is in Moses' best interest to go pro. Only Moses or his family can know that. Rational Hog fans will support him no matter his decision. He's been a model Razorback.

Mark it down, if MK ends up leaving this year there will be people on here calling him names, questioning his loyalty, saying he is making a stupid choice.

The biggest question I have is those wanting MK to return, is it because it is best for 1. MK, 2. the team, or 3 Mike? my money is on 3 for some of them.

[SONofHAM]

Mark it down, if MK ends up leaving this year there will be people on here calling him names, questioning his loyalty, saying he is making a stupid choice.

The biggest question I have is those wanting MK to return, is it because it is best for 1. MK, 2. the team, or 3 Mike? my money is on 3 for some of them.

There's probably some truth in here.  On the flip side, I bet there are many on here who would like to see MK leave early only to make it harder for Mike to make the tourney and thus be fired.