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I really don't get it...what happened?

Started by Razorfox, October 23, 2017, 10:45:06 am

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Razorfox

Let me start out by saying I'm firmly for us getting a new coach next year.  Early in the season, when I thought we were going to win 6 to 9 games and look respectable even in the losses, I was all for long-term consistency.  But it's obvious that the consistency of five years so far has not gotten us much of anything and at some point, the consistency becomes losing, which we don't want to happen. 

That being said, I'm always curious of how these things happen.  And for the life of me I can't figure out how we went from winning a respectable set of games between the middle of the 2015 season through the latter part of the 2016 season (wins over TCU, Florida, Ole Miss, Auburn, etc.) to now we can't fight our way out of a wet paper sack.  We were firmly mid-tier with potential upward trajectory in the SEC up until 10 months ago and now we are literally the worst team in the conference in every way. 

What I don't understand is that CBB was the coach that took us from the worst of the worst in 2013 and most of 2014 and improved us to the 2015 and 2016 seasons.  So at some point, he had us going in the right direction and knew somewhat what he was doing.  Why has it all gone completely to hell with seemingly no way of righting the ship? 

Beaverfever

Quote from: Razorfox on October 23, 2017, 10:45:06 am
What I don't understand is that CBB was the coach that took us from the worst of the worst in 2013 and most of 2014 and improved us to the 2015 and 2016 seasons. 
I don't completely buy that there was a big improvement from 14 and 15/16.  The only positive change was that our passing game developed which is why I don't put as much blame on Enos as some people.  In 14 we basically had no quarterback play.  Other than that position I think those teams were better than the teams of 15 and 16.  This year we have just collapsed with terrible offensive line play and a turnover of almost all talent at offensive skill positions. 

 

Oklahawg

Nutt's players would rally behind a rah-rah speech. The in-state players would be implored to have "Arkansas pride" or what-have-you. It would work 2-3 times a year (and, leave the team flat a time or two as well, have expended all energy on the 2-3 "up" games).

Petrino's players would fear being screamed at and humiliated. They believed they were coached by an offensive savant who would find ways to score points. They bought into his own swagger on that point.

Bielema's message to the players quit working.

===

What about the message failed is the $64,000 question, of course.

1. Did CBB err in not burning redshirts last year (or even this  year) to get the best potential talent on the field?
2. Did CBB err in not recognizing locker room problems early enough?
3. Did CBB err in giving coaches too much autonomy, creating an offense or defense that was contradicting itself? (Ie, OL is better equipped to pass block but we run too much; play-calling tilts opposite of talent).
4. Does CBB err in not giving more backups a few reps to see if they can "do it?" Especially in blowout losses.

At some point this is not about talent but about "losing the team."
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

Tusks

sometimes it's a good and some times it's a schit

hawgon

The easy answer is that all the players who had the residual effects of actual coaching and thus had toughness, heart, and attention to detail graduated.  You can see it easily.  They quit caring towards the end of last year and the losses were the result.  This year they are completely gone and these kids there now HAVE NEVER, with the exception of high school maybe, be taught right and held accountable when they don't do it right.  They think they are working hard or playing hard but they just don't know what they don't know and no one cares enough to put in the effort required to make sure that they get it right and to hold them accountable when they don't.

Discipline is harder work for the guy administering it than it is for the person receiving it.  Bert ain't into hard work.

jkstock04

I've never seen a season "over with" so early. The TCU loss absolutely crushed this team, season was done at that point.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

Oklahawg

Quote from: jkstock04 on October 23, 2017, 10:58:17 am
I've never seen a season "over with" so early. The TCU loss absolutely crushed this team, season was done at that point.

If not TCU, then A&M.
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: Razorfox on October 23, 2017, 10:45:06 am
Let me start out by saying I'm firmly for us getting a new coach next year.  Early in the season, when I thought we were going to win 6 to 9 games and look respectable even in the losses, I was all for long-term consistency.  But it's obvious that the consistency of five years so far has not gotten us much of anything and at some point, the consistency becomes losing, which we don't want to happen. 

That being said, I'm always curious of how these things happen.  And for the life of me I can't figure out how we went from winning a respectable set of games between the middle of the 2015 season through the latter part of the 2016 season (wins over TCU, Florida, Ole Miss, Auburn, etc.) to now we can't fight our way out of a wet paper sack.  We were firmly mid-tier with potential upward trajectory in the SEC up until 10 months ago and now we are literally the worst team in the conference in every way. 

What I don't understand is that CBB was the coach that took us from the worst of the worst in 2013 and most of 2014 and improved us to the 2015 and 2016 seasons.  So at some point, he had us going in the right direction and knew somewhat what he was doing.  Why has it all gone completely to hell with seemingly no way of righting the ship?
In looking over the entire body of work under the CBB the only consistency I can detect is that we're consistently bad.

Razorfox

Quote from: Oklahawg on October 23, 2017, 10:51:41 am
Nutt's players would rally behind a rah-rah speech. The in-state players would be implored to have "Arkansas pride" or what-have-you. It would work 2-3 times a year (and, leave the team flat a time or two as well, have expended all energy on the 2-3 "up" games).

Petrino's players would fear being screamed at and humiliated. They believed they were coached by an offensive savant who would find ways to score points. They bought into his own swagger on that point.

Bielema's message to the players quit working.

===

What about the message failed is the $64,000 question, of course.

1. Did CBB err in not burning redshirts last year (or even this  year) to get the best potential talent on the field?
2. Did CBB err in not recognizing locker room problems early enough?
3. Did CBB err in giving coaches too much autonomy, creating an offense or defense that was contradicting itself? (Ie, OL is better equipped to pass block but we run too much; play-calling tilts opposite of talent).
4. Does CBB err in not giving more backups a few reps to see if they can "do it?" Especially in blowout losses.

At some point this is not about talent but about "losing the team."

1) Redshirts - I don't see how that has anything to do with it; you don't beat TCU and Florida and then later lose to Missouri because you redshirted the wrong players.

2) What are they?  Have we heard of any?  Why can't he fix them?  He's a strong personality and charismatic guy, should be his forte. 

3) Maybe, but again, how does it work against Florida, TCU, etc only to completely go to hell right after?

4) ???

He's definitely lost the team.  I just don't know how it happened. 

BentonvilleJeff

Talent. Those early Bielema teams had more. I've been going to games long enough that I can see what we have. TV doesn't do it justice like in person. This years team has a few good players but overall talent is way down. Those early teams had more NFL players. This year is just a handful have the talent to reach the next level.

Someone is not a great evaluater of prospects and it is glaringly obvious when you eyeball test this team. Ragnow, Agim, and Curl are the only ones sticking out to me. It's possible Greenlaw and Harris get drafted.

Razorfox

Quote from: Vantage 8 dude on October 23, 2017, 11:00:05 am
In looking over the entire body of work under the CBB the only consistency I can detect is that we're consistently bad.

Well, it's obvious we were awful for all of 2013 and most of 2014.  Then after the rocky start to 2015, things started to look up.  2016 was pretty good until toward the end and had some good fun along the way.  2017 looks like 2013 so far. 

PonderinHog

Our offensive line is offensive to everyone but our opponents.  They love us.  It is either a coaching issue, a personnel issue, or both.

Hog Fan...DOH!

The 2nd-half collapses date back to his first year... I was in Piscataway, New Jersey to witness the first of many.

 

DoctorSusscrofa

When BB first arrived we seemed to be run heavy with a still developing QB.  As he developed and pass game developed we hit our peak just as some of our best players were experienced juniors or seniors.  We maintained the peak to some extent With AA because we still had quality RBs and experienced receivers.  As our QB, RBs, and Receivers got beat up we hit a downward spiral.  Then this year we had no AC, no RWIII, no Skipper, and no experienced receivers to start the season. We finally got Cornelius back only to have him go down again. Our OL woes continued and by mid season AA was beat up again.

We also had no defense since Philon, Trey, T Johnson and Spaight.
Fan of Razorback Football, Baseball, Track, Gymnastics, Softball - M Barton