Chronic Wasting Disease is here

[Albert Einswine]

Article I saw this morning.


http://www.agwatchnetwork.com/arkansas-researchers-move-ahead-determining-prevalence-distribution-of-chronic-wasting-disease-in-state-deer-elk/

[hoglady]

I had a friend die of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (basically the same disease in humans) - they ruled it the sporadic form (no known risk factors).
But this disease in humans can have an incubation period of up to 50 years - so who in the heck knows for sure, he could have come in contact with something at some point in his life.
This is a scary disease because it is really hard to sterilize infected items or areas.

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

 A guy I work with was coming to work and the deer was just standing in the road and won't move. He gets out to see how close he can get to it and get to touch it, when he touched it, it crossed the ditch and just sold there and stated at him.  When he gets to work he calls it in to the g&f, lady says someone be in touch with him. Mean while another friend sees the deer, still in the same spot and he calls the g&f biologist that lives here and he comes and shoots it and cuts off its head to send in for testing. He said, something was wrong with the deer, not sure it's C.W.D., but said it very well could be. Will update when I find out more.

This was in the extreme north east corner of prairie county.

[DOGALUM]

A guy I work with was coming to work and the deer was just standing in the road and won't move. He gets out to see how close he can get to it and get to touch it, when he touched it, it crossed the ditch and just sold there and stated at him.  When he gets to work he calls it in to the g&f, lady says someone be in touch with him. Mean while another friend sees the deer, still in the same spot and he calls the g&f biologist that lives here and he comes and shoots it and cuts off its head to send in for testing. He said, something was wrong with the deer, not sure it's C.W.D., but said it very well could be. Will update when I find out more.

Zombie deer

[Wayne Watson]

Please call 800-482-9262 if you see a road killed deer as the AGFC wants to take a sample for testing.

http://www.magnoliareporter.com/sports/outdoors/article_77df29f4-ffa8-11e5-9c0f-df1228885f58.html

[oldman1015]

A guy I work with was coming to work and the deer was just standing in the road and won't move. He gets out to see how close he can get to it and get to touch it, when he touched it, it crossed the ditch and just sold there and stated at him.  When he gets to work he calls it in to the g&f, lady says someone be in touch with him. Mean while another friend sees the deer, still in the same spot and he calls the g&f biologist that lives here and he comes and shoots it and cuts off its head to send in for testing. He said, something was wrong with the deer, not sure it's C.W.D., but said it very well could be. Will update when I find out more.

what part of the state?

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

what part of the state?

Prairie and Woodruff county line

[oldman1015]

Prairie and Woodruff county line

thanks

[Albert Einswine]

A guy I work with was coming to work and the deer was just standing in the road and won't move. He gets out to see how close he can get to it and get to touch it, when he touched it, it crossed the ditch and just sold there and stated at him.  When he gets to work he calls it in to the g&f, lady says someone be in touch with him. Mean while another friend sees the deer, still in the same spot and he calls the g&f biologist that lives here and he comes and shoots it and cuts off its head to send in for testing. He said, something was wrong with the deer, not sure it's C.W.D., but said it very well could be. Will update when I find out more.

A high school buddy of mine and one of his work hunting buddies had a similar experience in the late 90's in Sharp County. They were walking out of the woods up an old logging trail after the morning hunt and a basket rack was just standing in the middle of the trail. Joey said he didn't look exactly right, and as they got closer he just stood there. Long story short they couldn't get the deer to react and wound up cutting its throat where it stood and contacted AGFC. Never heard what happened after that.

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

thanks

No problem,  I thought I had it in my original post, guess I forgot.

[longbore]

If anyone is interested you can go to YouTube and search "cwd Arkansas" and watch the agfc public meetings held in and around the affected areas. The Jasper meeting gets interesting around the 57:08 mark with the questions and comments from Mr. Butler.

[kodiakisland]

If anyone is interested you can go to YouTube and search "cwd Arkansas" and watch the agfc public meetings held in and around the affected areas. The Jasper meeting gets interesting around the 57:08 mark with the questions and comments from Mr. Butler.

Maybe interesting, but not helpful to the issues at hand.  It really doesn't matter what was done 30 years ago and exactly which subspecies were here hundreds of years ago. 

What I'm hoping for is a big herd reduction done through hunting.  Not an eradication.

[longbore]

Maybe interesting, but not helpful to the issues at hand.  It really doesn't matter what was done 30 years ago and exactly which subspecies were here hundreds of years ago. 

What I'm hoping for is a big herd reduction done through hunting.  Not an eradication.

Mr Butler later in the meeting kept bringing up Dr. James Kroll and said that Kroll had mentioned on radio about the unlikelihood that the first positive cwd case in Arkansas would be from a cow elk and not a whitetail deer given the population discrepancy between the two.

[LSUFan]

And see kids, this is what happens when you legalize the marijuanas.

[hoglady]

Aren't ya'll going to be concerned about eating deer meat this fall?
And even more so about dressing out a deer?

[kodiakisland]

Aren't ya'll going to be concerned about eating deer meat this fall?
And even more so about dressing out a deer?

no

[root_hawg]

Not at all

[OldCoot]

I had a friend die of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (basically the same disease in humans) - they ruled it the sporadic form (no known risk factors).
But this disease in humans can have an incubation period of up to 50 years - so who in the heck knows for sure, he could have come in contact with something at some point in his life.
This is a scary disease because it is really hard to sterilize infected items or areas.

I can't give blood because I lived in Europe in the late 80's for specifically this reason.

[hoglady]

I can't give blood because I lived in Europe in the late 80's for specifically this reason.

I didn't realize that - I guess that's when Europe was having the problems with "mad cow disease".

[toshortrock]

ok,,i'm sure the deer has been sick before,,long before,,way before they even knew how to test them,,the bottom line is,,i can still make jerky this year and not fall dead,,LOL,,,,,

[Carl Lazlo]

http://garychandler.com/sewage-biosolids-reclaimed-wastewater-fueling-chronic-wasting-disease/

Just wanted to put this guys theory out there.  It has some validity and shows there's a much bigger issue than simply animals spreading these ad normal proteins within it's own species through saliva and/or contaminated kill sites.

The university of Wisconsin Madison replicated the methods a water treatment facility would use to turn sewer sludge into class I & class II biosolids and the study showed prions can and will survive the process.. In 2000 scientist claimed that bovine spongiform encephalopathies (in this case Cattle were believed to be infected by being feed sheep meal which crossed a species) would not cross species line. Then in 2005 a variant of CJD was discovered in humans and scientist claimed it was from eating parts of infectious cattle brain and spinal tissue.

Anyways, why would the state sanction the reintroduction a 500-700 animal that has no natural predators?  Those predators sniff out weak links which help prevent some diseases from spreading. Bad things will eventually start to unfold.  Turns out the actual proteins around the brain and central nervous system are unfolding.

Also just my opinion.  This was first discovered during the 18th century in sheep that had undergone severe interbreeding so it's not out of the question individual elk with hereditary traits of this disease that were somehow suppressed interbred several years in a row within a herd and created an off spring that was susceptible to the prion protein. Idk I'm no scientist but I did stay at a holiday inn express.

[Carl Lazlo]

Oh I am for removing all elk from the state of Arkansas by any means.

[Wayne Watson]

Good show on AETN last night about CWD.  They may have it on their website.

[OldCoot]

http://garychandler.com/sewage-biosolids-reclaimed-wastewater-fueling-chronic-wasting-disease/

Just wanted to put this guys theory out there.  It has some validity and shows there's a much bigger issue than simply animals spreading these ad normal proteins within it's own species through saliva and/or contaminated kill sites.

The university of Wisconsin Madison replicated the methods a water treatment facility would use to turn sewer sludge into class I & class II biosolids and the study showed prions can and will survive the process.. In 2000 scientist claimed that bovine spongiform encephalopathies (in this case Cattle were believed to be infected by being feed sheep meal which crossed a species) would not cross species line. Then in 2005 a variant of CJD was discovered in humans and scientist claimed it was from eating parts of infectious cattle brain and spinal tissue.

Anyways, why would the state sanction the reintroduction a 500-700 animal that has no natural predators?  Those predators sniff out weak links which help prevent some diseases from spreading. Bad things will eventually start to unfold.  Turns out the actual proteins around the brain and central nervous system are unfolding.

Also just my opinion.  This was first discovered during the 18th century in sheep that had undergone severe interbreeding so it's not out of the question individual elk with hereditary traits of this disease that were somehow suppressed interbred several years in a row within a herd and created an off spring that was susceptible to the prion protein. Idk I'm no scientist but I did stay at a holiday inn express.

No natural predators?  How about mountain lions and coyotes?  Do we have wolves?

[SemperHawg]

Can anyone shed any light on the proposed baiting restrictions for Zones 1 and 2 up here in NWA?  I am assuming they are CWD related.

[kodiakisland]

What I've seen proposed makes no sense.  Baiting prohibited by individuals except for hunters during hunting season.  Either it's a problem or it's not.  Who knows what the final regs will be, but it seems they can't make a decision.

[Albert Einswine]

What I've seen proposed makes no sense.  Baiting prohibited by individuals except for hunters during hunting season.  Either it's a problem or it's not.  Who knows what the final regs will be, but it seems they can't make a decision.

It's cowardice. Too timid to just outlaw baiting. Baiting in any form, including mineral blocks, powders, liquids, etc... is illegal here in Indiana and it turns out you can kill deer quite easily by just hunting them.

[PonderinHog]

It's cowardice. Too timid to just outlaw baiting. Baiting in any form, including mineral blocks, powders, liquids, etc... is illegal here in Indiana and it turns out you can kill deer quite easily by just hunting them.

What a novel idea, Al!

[Albert Einswine]

What a novel idea, Al!

I know, who'd a thunk it, right??

[kodiakisland]

It's cowardice. Too timid to just outlaw baiting. Baiting in any form, including mineral blocks, powders, liquids, etc... is illegal here in Indiana and it turns out you can kill deer quite easily by just hunting them.

It's hard to convince some people that deer move quite well when there are no corn piles in the area. 

[PonderinHog]

I know, who'd a thunk it, right??

Bobby Hill, maybe?

[root_hawg]

I dunno we have 2 guys who bait a great deal, like a couple of tons a year, they are the only people that kill deer on that lease.  I refuse to get in a "corn" race with them.  I just choose to hunt elsewhere.

[SemperHawg]

I don't put any corn or bait out during the season.  I have however run various minerals during the spring and summer time over the last couple of years and we have seen an overall improvement of the size and quality of deer as a result. 

[Albert Einswine]

I don't put any corn or bait out during the season.  I have however run various minerals during the spring and summer time over the last couple of years and we have seen an overall improvement of the size and quality of deer as a result. 

You are allowed to put out minerals in Indiana, but if you get caught hunting over the area without having dug up and removed the affected soil from the area prior to the season it's a stiff fine. I know a couple of guys who've paid the price.

[SemperHawg]

You are allowed to put out minerals in Indiana, but if you get caught hunting over the area without having dug up and removed the affected soil from the area prior to the season it's a stiff fine. I know a couple of guys who've paid the price.

I would have no problem with that, I was strictly speaking on the overall baiting ban that will include minerals for this CWD thing this year in Zones 1 and 2.

[Carl Lazlo]

No natural predators?  How about mountain lions and coyotes?  Do we have wolves?

Natural elk predators?  You won't see a pack coyotes taking down a elk.   And the population of mountain lions in the state is too low to be effective. Arkansas does not have wolves .

Lack of predation is not the reason for cwd but it does factor in to the spread of it and various diseases. 

Introducing and confining elk to a few counties in NWA never made sense on a habitat level .  Elk aren't making a living on those hardwood ridges in Newton county.  They're running on these cattle farms and eating off fruit trees around houses , both of which use pesticides and fertilizers that may contain biosolids. Just look at a picture of elk in Arkansas then compare it to the same age class elk in Colorado, New Mexico or anywhere else they naturally exist. The Arkansas elk looks melted down.  There's a reason why they didn't make it.  Habitat. The Rocky Mountain elk was introduce to Arkansas the first time in 1933 (by 1950 the herd which reached 200 at it's highest pop. vanished) and again in 1981-85 are a different sub species to the native eastern elk that went extinct in Arkansas early 1800s due mainly to habitat.  The total Arkansas elk pop is now estimated to be around 400.  I often wonder if there's enough genetic diversity within the herd.  What you end up getting is an inferior animal. Just not a good idea for humans to play God. 

As for these new regulations about baiting it couldn't be more wrong .  The most vulnerable time of the year for a whitetail is late season. I mainly bow hunt public land. But at the house on my 20 acres I don't feed anything until mid January- early march.  Food plots are great but on those really cold nights they need carbs to help survive. 

And I get what they are saying about passing diseases at feeding sites.  But if you do it in a natural way by spreading it super thin and not piling in one spot then I don't see how it can encourage the spread of diseases more than a food would encourage it.

[kodiakisland]

Deer in Arkansas survive quite well without being fed.  Lots of reasons to justify feeding, but deer survival is not one of them.  The hardest winter here wouldn't even be mild compared to where many whitetails live and thrive.  The biggest problem is we don't want a natural supply of deer.  We want falsely high numbers so we can watch more deer walk past our stand.  CWD, blue tongue, EHD, etc. have been around a long time and usually aren't a problem until populations get high.  Then nature corrects itself.  The more deer we have (and elk), the more likely we are to have diseases.

[OldCoot]

Natural elk predators?  You won't see a pack coyotes taking down a elk.   And the population of mountain lions in the state is too low to be effective. Arkansas does not have wolves .

Lack of predation is not the reason for cwd but it does factor in to the spread of it and various diseases. 

Introducing and confining elk to a few counties in NWA never made sense on a habitat level .  Elk aren't making a living on those hardwood ridges in Newton county.  They're running on these cattle farms and eating off fruit trees around houses , both of which use pesticides and fertilizers that may contain biosolids. Just look at a picture of elk in Arkansas then compare it to the same age class elk in Colorado, New Mexico or anywhere else they naturally exist. The Arkansas elk looks melted down.  There's a reason why they didn't make it.  Habitat. The Rocky Mountain elk was introduce to Arkansas the first time in 1933 (by 1950 the herd which reached 200 at it's highest pop. vanished) and again in 1981-85 are a different sub species to the native eastern elk that went extinct in Arkansas early 1800s due mainly to habitat.  The total Arkansas elk pop is now estimated to be around 400.  I often wonder if there's enough genetic diversity within the herd.  What you end up getting is an inferior animal. Just not a good idea for humans to play God. 

As for these new regulations about baiting it couldn't be more wrong .  The most vulnerable time of the year for a whitetail is late season. I mainly bow hunt public land. But at the house on my 20 acres I don't feed anything until mid January- early march.  Food plots are great but on those really cold nights they need carbs to help survive. 

And I get what they are saying about passing diseases at feeding sites.  But if you do it in a natural way by spreading it super thin and not piling in one spot then I don't see how it can encourage the spread of diseases more than a food would encourage it.

I was halfway joking about the predator comment, but it is hard to believe we don't have big carnivores.

That's interesting info about the history of elk in Arkansas.  I had never really heard that before.  I didn't even realize we ever had them.  I wonder what the goal of introducing them is and how big a population the state can sustain?  Are they limited to mountainous areas and will they eventually move south towards the Mena/Hot Springs mountains.

It's odd we don't have any wolves, I guess we killed them all off?

[Carl Lazlo]

Deer in Arkansas survive quite well without being fed.  Lots of reasons to justify feeding, but deer survival is not one of them.  The hardest winter here wouldn't even be mild compared to where many whitetails live and thrive.  The biggest problem is we don't want a natural supply of deer.  We want falsely high numbers so we can watch more deer walk past our stand.  CWD, blue tongue, EHD, etc. have been around a long time and usually aren't a problem until populations get high.  Then nature corrects itself.  The more deer we have (and elk), the more likely we are to have diseases.

It's all relative.  Mature bucks up in super cold environments reach 300 pounds .  Where as one in Arkansas , depending on locale will reach 200 pounds.  That extra weight is what pushes those deer up north through their winters. And yes down here they will survive but they won't thrive in some areas. It all depends on habitat and genetics . Often they go hand in hand. Deer that live in a pine thicket in Ashely county will never see it's full potential compared to a deer that lives inside the levee in Desha county.  The habitat on major rivers is far superior.  Far as high numbers are concerned you're not speaking on my behalf.  I want healthy deer.  Even in the 60s and 70s when it was unheard of to hunt deer over feed there was still crazy numbers of whitetails.  I know one person that killed in the thousands, around 3,000 roughly from year 1969-87.  And he did nothing to hurt the population .   When it came to quality back then it was a different story . Many mature spikes , 4 points and such.

[Carl Lazlo]

I was halfway joking about the predator comment, but it is hard to believe we don't have big carnivores.

That's interesting info about the history of elk in Arkansas.  I had never really heard that before.  I didn't even realize we ever had them.  I wonder what the goal of introducing them is and how big a population the state can sustain?  Are they limited to mountainous areas and will they eventually move south towards the Mena/Hot Springs mountains.

It's odd we don't have any wolves, I guess we killed them all off?

Yes I think man and environmental factors(less food) drove wolves out.

The AGFC has stated that if an elk steps out of any of the three counties in which they have deemed elk country then it is to be killed on the spot .  So they were never meant to be a free ranging animal in Arkansas . 

[Albert Einswine]

Yes I think man and environmental factors(less food) drove wolves out.

The AGFC has stated that if an elk steps out of any of the three counties in which they have deemed elk country then it is to be killed ok the spot .  So they were never meant to be a free ranging animal in Arkansas . 

Wolves were the victims of a systematic eradication program by landowners, stock ranchers and the US government.

http://www.missionwolf.org/page/wild-wolf-history/

[kodiakisland]

I remember reading an old game and fish report on the red wolves here in Arkansas.  The last known confirmed wolf was sometime in the 70s in NWA.  Hard to believe now there were wolves still here not that long ago.


Here is one article I found.  Pretty interesting about early Arkansas.  Kinda frustrating looking for info on wolves in Arkansas.  About all you get is A State info.
http://libinfo.uark.edu/aas/issues/2001v55/v55a3.pdf

[SultanofSwine]

Just my 2 cents that may not be worth that much but passed along my "vote" if you will that the agfc do nothing in regards to regs for this coming season. The one caveat being that they make use of the harvest data structure already in place with dmap clubs as a means of testing in every county this fall.

In regards to the feeding issue that can of worms is not clear cut at all with the fact that the prions exist in soil and plant tissues for who knows how long. If you are to ban feeding where do you reasonably stop? Just mineral sites, just bait piles such as corn or rice bran? What about food plots? If food plots have to go what do you do about row crops or pasture with clover growing in it?

This fall needs to be about getting a clearer picture of just how much exposure we have before making rash decisions that in all likelihood will have little impact in dealing with the problem. This didn't just show up, it's been here for good while and very well could have come with the elk reintroduction, we will never know for sure.

[oldman1015]

Just my 2 cents that may not be worth that much but passed along my "vote" if you will that the agfc do nothing in regards to regs for this coming season. The one caveat being that they make use of the harvest data structure already in place with dmap clubs as a means of testing in every county this fall.

In regards to the feeding issue that can of worms is not clear cut at all with the fact that the prions exist in soil and plant tissues for who knows how long. If you are to ban feeding where do you reasonably stop? Just mineral sites, just bait piles such as corn or rice bran? What about food plots? If food plots have to go what do you do about row crops or pasture with clover growing in it?

This fall needs to be about getting a clearer picture of just how much exposure we have before making rash decisions that in all likelihood will have little impact in dealing with the problem. This didn't just show up, it's been here for good while and very well could have come with the elk reintroduction, we will never know for sure.

food plots don't congregate deer like a fenced in corn feeder.

[Albert Einswine]

food plots don't congregate deer like a fenced in corn feeder.

Exactly. Besides that, conditioning deer to come to a feeder isn't exactly fair chase hunting.

[PharmacistHog]

Exactly. Besides that, conditioning deer to come to a feeder isn't exactly fair chase hunting.

Not sure I've ever shot a good buck eating at a feeder.  The feeders do, however, keep plenty of does in the area and the bucks will frequent the area to chase those does.  I don't give a crap if they outlaw feeding, as long as everybody stops doing it.  The way its going right now, if you aren't feeding, you won't see many deer.  They are all going over to the next guy who is feeding them.  Outlaw it all or don't outlaw it.  I'm all for fair chase as long as it really is fair. 

[SultanofSwine]

What congregates deer more a corn feeder or a preferred mast tree? I have seen different oaks, persimmon and honey locust each with over 100 piles of deer crap within 20 yards of each tree. I have never seen a feeder with that much crap around it.

My point was in my opinion any reaction this year re: any type of feeding, plot, pile or mineral is an overreaction at this point in the game.

[PharmacistHog]

What congregates deer more a corn feeder or a preferred mast tree? I have seen different oaks, persimmon and honey locust each with over 100 piles of deer crap within 20 yards of each tree. I have never seen a feeder with that much crap around it.

My point was in my opinion any reaction this year re: any type of feeding, plot, pile or mineral is an overreaction at this point in the game.

I agree with you.  Shouldn't need any knee jerk reactions. 

[oldman1015]

What congregates deer more a corn feeder or a preferred mast tree? I have seen different oaks, persimmon and honey locust each with over 100 piles of deer crap within 20 yards of each tree. I have never seen a feeder with that much crap around it.

My point was in my opinion any reaction this year re: any type of feeding, plot, pile or mineral is an overreaction at this point in the game.

people that feed 12 months a year. acorns don't last a month