Anderson: Is this the standard for our program?

[synthartist69]

Nothing in your post history suggests you truly believe the subject line

Well I like his personality...lol

[Marshfieldhog]

Hell to add to this I wouldnt even put him in the top half of the SEC coaches let alone top 25 thats some strong ass kool aid being passed around! 

How many weeks has Anderson had the Hogd in the Top 25 in 7 years. I bet it's very few.

[HiggiePiggy]

Hell to add to this I wouldnt even put him in the top half of the SEC coaches let alone top 25 thats some strong ass kool aid being passed around! 

Wouldn't put him in the top half of the sec even though he has been top half of the sec most of his years here...... ok.

[GoHogs1091]

No. No he's not. That's an absurd claim.

Izzo, Coach K, Boeheim, Roy Williams, Bill Self, Jay Wright, Tony Bennet, Pearl, Shakha Smart, Greg Marshall, Few, Bielien, Beard, Mike White, Huggins, Buzz Williams, Laranaga, Archie Miller, Sean Miller, Calipari, Scott Drew, Jamie Dixon, Leonard Hamilton, Mike Brey, Mick Cronin

Those are just off the top of my head and disregarding up and comers. He's not a top 25 coach.

Mike White got out-coached by Chris Beard last night.

A lot of those Coaches on your list are good Coaches, and are definitely better than Anderson (with the possible exception of Calipari; Anderson has been able to win against him some).

To me, the top 5 in college basketball are;

1. Coach K
2. Jim Boeheim
3. Bill Self
4. Tom Izzo
5. Ben Howland

[WorfHog]

I like Mike too, but I feel like he's complacent. Good coaches are turning out staff to other head coaching jobs. Mike's got TJ and Melvin making mid six figures for what? Motivation? Recruiting?

[3kgthog]

I'm not sunshine pumping but I'm a realist.  UVA was the overall number one seed and that got blown out by 20 by UMBC.  I know who they are because I follow college basketball but that should not happen.  This tourney should tell you that anything can and will happen. I will tell you this. Mike is one of the top 25 coaches coaching in college basketball. I'd entertain a top 15 coach but you don't replace a top 25 coach with an up and comer especially when he have better talent on the way.

He's not top 25. His postseason results here prove he's not.

[thebignasty]

Mike White got out-coached by Chris Beard last night.

A lot of those Coaches on your list are good Coaches, and are definitely better than Anderson (with the possible exception of Calipari; Anderson has been able to win against him some).

To me, the top 5 in college basketball are;

1. Coach K
2. Jim Boeheim
3. Bill Self
4. Tom Izzo
5. Ben Howland

Where is Rick Stanisbury?

[Mjs84]

What leads you to believe we only make the tourney 3 out of the next 8 years when we have made it 3 out of the last 4?

He's 3 out of 7 with 1 NIT moron.  But I would understand why you wouldn't want to talk about his first 4 years. 

[WoePigSooie]

I'm not sunshine pumping but I'm a realist.  UVA was the overall number one seed and that got blown out by 20 by UMBC.  I know who they are because I follow college basketball but that should not happen.  This tourney should tell you that anything can and will happen. I will tell you this. Mike is one of the top 25 coaches coaching in college basketball. I'd entertain a top 15 coach but you don't replace a top 25 coach with an up and comer especially when he have better talent on the way.

So 40 minutes of smell is good enough?

[GuvHog]

Wouldn’t put him in the top half of the sec even though he has been top half of the sec most of his years here...... ok.

To be frank, right now I'd say there are 11 head coaches in the SEC who are better than Mike and the 2 below him got fired.

[HiggiePiggy]

He's 3 out of 7 with 1 NIT moron.  But I would understand why you wouldn't want to talk about his first 4 years. 

Sure we can talk about his first 4 years. 3 seasons of a winning record in the SEC compared to what we had the 9 years before him which was 2 winning seasons in the sec and 7 years of losing. 

He came in turned the program around and now is doing what many would be happy about and that is taking us to the tournament consistently. 

He has not had a losing season in the SEC except his first year.  I was expecting year 3 to make the tournament, but instead it was year 4. Year 5 we lost some people that we were expecting to have back.  It was a bad season. Year 6 he goes back to the NCAA tournament. Year 7 he goes back to the tournament. Year 8 is to be continued.  We might fall back or we might be in the tournament for a 3rd year in a row. 

[RebHog]

Wouldn't put him in the top half of the sec even though he has been top half of the sec most of his years here...... ok.

I am looking at the current landscape but ya lets rate him on history not the now that always works well......ok.

[Porked Tongue]

Love the block feature.  Used effectively again it appears.

[GlassofSwine]

Look at CMA's recruiting over the past 4 years:

2015 - Witt 4*, Danbury, Jenkins
2016 - Barford 4*, Macon 4*, Cook 4* (how?), Jones, Bailey, Hazen
2017 - Gafford 4*, Hall, Osabouhein, Garland
2018 - Henderson 4*, Embery 4*, Chaney, Joe, Phillips, Sills

For the 2018-19 team, only those in bold will return or join (assuming Gaff is gone).  11 players with 5 upper classmen and 6 freshmen.  Of the upper classmen, only Jones, Bailey and Hall have seen appreciable floor time this year.  Those 3 accounted for approximately 20% of the team minutes, and 18% of the scoring.  That shouldn't surprise anyone, but that's not a significant combined production for 3 players.  The 2018-19 team will not have anyone who is a post player or can defend the post.  The offense will be run by a point guard with no collegiate experience.  Sure that may work for KY, and while some of the incoming freshmen may develop into fine players, there are no McD AA's or blue chippers.  They are all likely 4-year players.

In 4 years, the Hogs may have a solid team if they can recruit some bigs, but they will likely endure disappointing years over the next 2 or 3.  CMA probably saw Gaff as a 2-3 year player instead of what may be a one-and-done.  But how did he not have another big in the wings with the incoming class to at least serve as a backup to Gaff.  I know Reggie Perry played him for a year, but his decommit happened last summer and he still had time to lure another big.

Good coaches restock and reload, and have a plan for building consistent competitiveness - not 1 or 2 good years followed by 2-3 down years.  Next year is going to be full of growing pains, and if the results are that bad, it might be enough for a change.  We have a new AD that might not hand out hall passes like his predecessor.

Next year rests on the incoming guards period. Gafford coming back or not will not have nearly the impact on the season as are incoming guards. Gafford is an athletic freak but raw, and has a very limited offensive game in the post. Chaney in high school is better offensively on the blocks than Gafford. If the guard play is good next year than Arkansas will have a good year.

[GlassofSwine]

Pull out the record books and look up what Eddie Sutton and Nolan Richardson built here. That is the standard, established not over one or two years, but 25.

Nothing less will ever be good enough, no matter who the coach is.

Nolan tore down most of what he built and then Heath and Pelphrey destroyed it. Obviously there are better coaches than MA but unless you can guarantee you will get one of them you don't fire him and hire a mid-major. If you can get a Bill Self, a Greg Marshall, etc you do it. Short of that I'd rather have MA any day than another up and comer.

[Hollywood_HOGan]

I like him. But he isn't getting it done. He's Houston nutt without the slime. We are Better than before but not good enough. Two ncaa wins in 7 years isn't cutting it.

[steveaustin69]

Nolan tore down most of what he built and then Heath and Pelphrey destroyed it. Obviously there are better coaches than MA but unless you can guarantee you will get one of them you don't fire him and hire a mid-major. If you can get a Bill Self, a Greg Marshall, etc you do it. Short of that I'd rather have MA any day than another up and comer.

Mike's MAYBE a top 40 coach. That's not good. I'd rather have many others.

[ShadowHawg]

It wasn't.

It was.

[Atlhogfan1]

It was.

Nolan's last team played the #8 schedule according to kenpom.

https://kenpom.com/index.php?y=2002&s=RankSOS

How many more examples do you want me to find to prove your repeated line of how this was our toughest schedule ever is BS?

[GoHogs1091]

Where is Rick Stanisbury?

Stansbury is not that great of an in-game Coach.

He is a very good recruiter though.  Several of those Texas A&M players who destroyed North Carolina today were recruited by Stansbury.

[Porked Tongue]

Nolan's last team played the #8 schedule according to kenpom.

https://kenpom.com/index.php?y=2002&s=RankSOS

How many more examples do you want me to find to prove your repeated line of how this was our toughest schedule ever is BS?

I think he means it was "tougher" because Mike was the coach.

[ShadowHawg]

Nolan's last team played the #8 schedule according to kenpom.

https://kenpom.com/index.php?y=2002&s=RankSOS

How many more examples do you want me to find to prove your repeated line of how this was our toughest schedule ever is BS?

It amazes me how little you understand about stats.

We played 18 games against the field of 68 this season. Nearly half of the entire schedule. Because a lot of these teams beat each other up in conference play, they are going to have lower sos themselves which lowers our own.

Secondly, losing raises your sos.

The season you chose to "prove" your assertion...............10 games against the field of 64.

Lies, darn lies, and statistics.

[ShadowHawg]

Pull out the record books and look up what Eddie Sutton and Nolan Richardson built here. That is the standard, established not over one or two years, but 25.

Nothing less will ever be good enough, no matter who the coach is.

We went to final fours before Sutton. Why are you leaving them out of your sample?

[GlassofSwine]

Mike's MAYBE a top 40 coach. That's not good. I'd rather have many others.

Point is 3 years ago guys like Shaka Smart and Buzz Williams were considered Top 20 coaches and up and comers, Shaka has a .500 record overall, a losing conference record and 0-2 in the NCAA tournament.  Buzz Williams at Virginia Tech has a .552 overall record in  4 years, a losing conference record and is 0-2 in the NCAA tournament. So unless you can guarantee a coach like a Mark Few, Bill Self, Greg Marshall, etc I'm not interested. There is always a new flavor of the month and almost none of them have sustained success.

[Atlhogfan1]

Point is 3 years ago guys like Shaka Smart and Buzz Williams were considered Top 20 coaches and up and comers, Shaka has a .500 record overall, a losing conference record and 0-2 in the NCAA tournament.  Buzz Williams at Virginia Tech has a .552 overall record in  4 years, a losing conference record and is 0-2 in the NCAA tournament. So unless you can guarantee a coach like a Mark Few, Bill Self, Greg Marshall, etc I'm not interested. There is always a new flavor of the month and almost none of them have sustained success.

Check VT's history.  Not that I'm saying hire Buzz or anyone else.  Not giving the fan boys a target. 

[ShadowHawg]

Check VT's history.  Not that I'm saying hire Buzz or anyone else.  Not giving the fan boys a target.

Their history has zero to do with results now. If history determined anything, UCLA would never lose.

[Atlhogfan1]

Their history has zero to do with results now. If history determined anything, UCLA would never lose.

VT has proven to be a tough place to win. Moving to the ACC made it tougher.  Tougher than certain other programs in lesser conferences.

[GlassofSwine]

VT has proven to be a tough place to win. Moving to the ACC made it tougher.  Tougher than certain other programs in lesser conferences.

I don't care about V-Techs history, Buzz has made them a bubble program that couldn't beat Alabama in the NCAA tourney. He's producing the same results as MA in an conference that  is on par with the SEC.

[Atlhogfan1]

I don't care about V-Techs history,

Well that makes perfect sense when evaluating how good of a job a coach has done.

[hogsanity]

We went to final fours before Sutton. Why are you leaving them out of your sample?

you do know that in the 40's the NCAAT was even lower rung than the cbi is today. The NIT was THE TOURNAMENT then. Iirc, the ncaat only took 4 or 8 teams in the 40's.

[GlassofSwine]

Well that makes perfect sense when evaluating how good of a job a coach has done.

Yeah, because when we evaluate MA we look back over 20 years to when Arkansas was relevant and say those are the results he should produce. Then we say that if he was a good coach he would be getting better results quicker. With V-Tech it's the program has consistently sucked so we can't expect a coach to have success there. You'll make excuses for V-Tech based on history that is completely irrelevant to today but hold MA to history that is also completely irrelevant today. .

[Atlhogfan1]

Yeah, because when we evaluate MA we look back over 20 years to when Arkansas was relevant and say those are the results he should produce. Then we say that if he was a good coach he would be getting better results quicker. With V-Tech it's the program has consistently sucked so we can't expect a coach to have success there. You'll make excuses for V-Tech based on history that is completely irrelevant to today but hold MA to history that is also completely irrelevant today. .

No. It's saying Buzz is doing better at VT than any coach they've had since the 80s and close to being their most accomplished ever.  It's context. 

How would we judge the job Bill Snyder has done at K St if we completely ignored their history prior to him? 

[GlassofSwine]

No. It's saying Buzz is doing better at VT than any coach they've had since the 80s and close to being their most accomplished ever.  It's context.

Except he's not. Seth Greenberg had a higher winning pct.  and actually won a tournament game in his 4th year there. That is recent history in the 2000's not the 80's.

[hogsanity]

Were Eddie and Nolan GREAT before they came to Arkansas? No, but within just 2-4 years it was OBVIOUS they were going to be great. In yr 7 under Mike they are still losing games just like they were in yr 1 and 2, still suffering the same roster issues they have since he got here. It is OBVIOUS what Mike has done in 7 season is pretty much what he will do if he is here for 7 more.

[Atlhogfan1]

Except he's not. Seth Greenberg had a higher winning pct.  and actually won a tournament game in his 4th year there. That is recent history in the 2000's not the 80's.

Greenberg went to one NCAAT in 9 seasons.  Buzz 2 in 4 seasons plus an NIT. Buzz is already consistently doing things not seen there since the 80s.

Good to see you are now checking the history.

[GlassofSwine]

No. It's saying Buzz is doing better at VT than any coach they've had since the 80s and close to being their most accomplished ever.  It's context. 

How would we judge the job Bill Snyder has done at K St if we completely ignored their history prior to him?

Oh and Bill Synder would be a great coach regardless. He had 65% win pct. 19 bowl appearances. 6 finishes in the Top 10, 2 Big 12 titles. It doesn't matter what school you put his record at, he would be considered a great coach.

[hogsanity]

Greenberg went to one NCAAT in 9 seasons.  Buzz 2 in 4 seasons plus an NIT. Buzz is already consistently doing things not seen there since the 80s.

Good to see you are now checking the history.

Well, you can see how Shadow would think one NCAAT in 9 years is good, since he thinks 3 in 7 is great.

[Atlhogfan1]

Oh and Bill Synder would be a great coach regardless. He had 65% win pct. 19 bowl appearances. 6 finishes in the Top 10, 2 Big 12 titles. It doesn't matter what school you put his record at, he would be considered a great coach.

Not true.

[GlassofSwine]

Greenberg went to one NCAAT in 9 seasons.  Buzz 2 in 4 seasons plus an NIT. Buzz is already consistently doing things not seen there since the 80s.

Good to see you are now checking the history.

I always check history, it's just irrelevant. I only mentioned it because you were wrong and your cherry-picking. Greenberg went to 1 NCAA tourney in his first 4 years and won a game. Buzz has two appearances and is 0-2. Virgina Tech will always be a bubble team under Buzz, same as it was under Greenberg who kept landing them in the NIT. Plus, he still has a worse winning pct.

[GlassofSwine]

Not true.

BS, find the number of coaches with a similar historical resume in college football history. The list will be short, regardless of school.

[Atlhogfan1]

I always check history, it's just irrelevant. I only mentioned it because you were wrong and your cherry-picking. Greenberg went to 1 NCAA tourney in his first 4 years and won a game. Buzz has two appearances and is 0-2. Virgina Tech will always be a bubble team under Buzz, same as it was under Greenberg who kept landing them in the NIT. Plus, he still has a worse winning pct.

Not cherry picking at all. History isn't irrelevant. A program's expectations and standards are heavily influenced by their history.  Oh St football and how their head coach's accomplishments are viewed are different than Indiana's. VT basketball isn't Syracuse Duke NC NC St UVA. 

[Atlhogfan1]

BS, find the number of coaches with a similar historical resume in college football history. The list will be short, regardless of school.

Not. That's HOF level for K St. For Texas and OU it would have been subpar what he has done. Because of their history and programs' achievements. Context. 

[hogsanity]

Not. That's HOF level for K St. For Texas and OU it would have been subpar what he has done. Because of their history and programs' achievements. Context. 

and, of course, the Mike defenders are back to trying to compare football and basketball. Funny thing about that is that these very same people were the most vocal about firing BB, cutting him no slack for how hard the SEC is in football.

[GoHogs1091]

Pull out the record books and look up what Eddie Sutton and Nolan Richardson built here. That is the standard, established not over one or two years, but 25.

Nothing less will ever be good enough, no matter who the coach is.

I wonder what Eddie thinks when he comes to one of our games, and he sees our matador perimeter defense.

It probably makes him sad to see that matador defense we do out on the perimeter.

[GlassofSwine]

Not cherry picking at all. History isn't irrelevant. A program's expectations and standards are heavily influenced by their history.  Oh St football and how their head coach's accomplishments are viewed are different than Indiana's. VT basketball isn't Syracuse Duke NC NC St UVA.

You are cherry-picking. You completely skipped over Greenberg even though he had a better winning pct than Buzz. I see you must be a Buzz fan though, your defending him more than I would defend MA. History is irrelevant, what was Florida before Spurrier? What was Florida basketball before Lon Kruger? Your own example, what was K-State football before Snyder? Just because a team has won in the past doesn't mean they will or should win in the present. Your probably still holding on to the 1964 football championship as evidence Arkansas should be able to compete for titles in football today.

[GlassofSwine]

and, of course, the Mike defenders are back to trying to compare football and basketball. Funny thing about that is that these very same people were the most vocal about firing BB, cutting him no slack for how hard the SEC is in football.

No AtlHogfan wants to compare football and basketball, he brought it up and I'm not a Mike defender but he loves him some Buzz Williams. My comment was simply that I didn't want to hire an up and comer because they almost always end up with mediocre results, ala Buzz Williams. That apparently triggered him.

[Atlhogfan1]

You are cherry-picking. You completely skipped over Greenberg even though he had a better winning pct than Buzz. I see you must be a Buzz fan though, your defending him more than I would defend MA. History is irrelevant, what was Florida before Spurrier? What was Florida basketball before Lon Kruger? Your own example, what was K-State football before Snyder? Just because a team has won in the past doesn't mean they will or should win in the present. Your probably still holding on to the 1964 football championship as evidence Arkansas should be able to compete for titles in football today.

I didn't skip him. You have to go back to the 80s to Moir to find a coach there who had back to back NCAAT trips or at least 3 consecutive 20 win seasons.

[ShadowHawg]

Those two Final Fours were in 1940-41 and in 1944-45 with little corresponding success before or after. What I am talking about is a sustained period of excellence from 1976-77 through 2000-01. In those 25 years...

We won one National Championship;
Played in two other Final Fours;
Won 10 regular-season conference titles;
Won seven conference tournament championships;
Played in the NCAA Tournament 22 times;
Finished ranked in the Top 10 10 times;
Finished ranked in the Top 20 17 Times.

Sustained excellence.

Cherry picking from an era that no longer exists. The final fours from the 40's are just as applicable to the current situation as our run through the 70's to 90's. Fun times. Fond memories.

Problem is that we can't look back at what elements made for a successful program then and apply them now. The game around the game has changed dramatically.

Expectations should be high but the timeline to achieve them in has changed gimongously since then.

[Atlhogfan1]

No AtlHogfan wants to compare football and basketball, he brought it up and I'm not a Mike defender but he loves him some Buzz Williams. My comment was simply that I didn't want to hire an up and comer because they almost always end up with mediocre results, ala Buzz Williams. That apparently triggered him.

I didn't compare the two sports.

Saying what he has done in 4 seasons at VT is mediocre shows ignorance. 

We may not would hire an up and comer. Hiring a successful coach from a program like Marquette isn't hiring an up and comer.

[ShadowHawg]

I didn't compare the two sports.

Saying what he has done in 4 seasons at VT is mediocre shows ignorance. 

We may not would hire an up and comer. Hiring a successful coach from a program like Marquette isn't hiring an up and comer.

Marquette is a stepping stone for up and comers. How can you even try to claim otherwise?