Firing Heath = Crazy Talk

[jaredndockery]

So, we continue to speculate on Stan Heath's job security? Surely even the UA athletic program will not make a blunder of this magnitude, for this is not rocket science.

If you don't fire your white football coach after back-to-back losing seasons, you cannot fire your black basketball coach after back-to-back-to-back winning seasons.

Period.

It would be a double standard even if race were not involved. You could see this sort of thing happening at a school which had a very strong tradition in basketball and a weak tradition in football (see Kansas, Duke, North Carolina or Kentucky). But with Arkansas, the football and basketball programs are about equal in terms of tradition. Both have won one national championship. If Arkansas is a football school in the 2000s, it was a basketball school in the 1990s.

Do not think that the University of Arkansas will be able to ignore questions about this double standard. Is the double standard based upon race? Perhaps not, but how will the UA ever be able to prove that it is not? Especially after the UA had to defend itself in a court of law once before on this very issue? Especially even more after the UA's alleged racism has been raised as an issue within the very halls of the United States Congress?

Nor would Arkansas be able to point to off-court baggage as a justification for firing Heath (as it did with Richardson) because, frankly, Heath has none. Coach Heath has proven himself to be just about the classiest guy in college basketball. (Re-read Heath's February 27 comments before the Mississippi State game, available at http://www.arsnonline.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=4040, if you have any questions about that assertion.)

Houston Nutt, on the other hand, has baggage and to spare. His bizarre machinations have torn Razorback nation asunder. While Hog fans may sometimes question Heath's coaching ability they do not question his character; with Nutt, they question both. This only makes it that much more of a double standard to fire Heath.

I have argued elsewhere on these forums (http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=120874.msg1796777#msg1796777) that it is immoral to fire Heath after keeping Nutt. I argue now that it is also inexpedient. To do so risks a public relations nightmare even greater, potentially, than that which occurred after firing Nolan Richardson. This story has the sort of legs which might carry it all the way to the doorsteps of Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric and Bill O'Reilly, perhaps even up the steps of the U.S. Capitol. Is this something we want?

And do we want to risk the possibility of player defections? Weren't you touched by Patrick Beverley's statement of loyalty—couched though it may have been in his own colloqualisms—to his embattled coach? Is it a stretch to think that Beverley, or others, might leave if we force Heath to do so?

Some are assuming that a coaching change would bring instant betterment; but isn't it likely that the resulting turmoil would actually tear down much of what has been slowly built over the past five seasons?

Instead of predicting that losing in the first round of the tournament is as good as it's going to get under Heath (and hoping against hope that he does lose and that he will then be fired), wouldn't it make more sense to instead root for Arkansas to beat USC?

Instead of hoping somehow to steal away this coach or that one, wouldn't it make more sense—since firing Heath is now inexpedient—to simply hope that Coach Heath continues to grow into his job? After all, he is young (five years younger than Billy Gillispie; two years younger than Bill Self); and, to give Heath his due, the Razorback program has gradually improved under his watch so far.

The Razorback basketball program is not where we want it to be yet. But we are in the NCAA tourney this year, and next year we have a stacked team returning. Isn't there room somewhere in there for optimism?

[NuttinItUp]

You can't fire him after 2 consecutive trips to the NCAA tourney. ESPECIALLY if we win our first round game. (which would continue on with the "improve every year Heath is here" trend)

[weresoclose]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

[davis01]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

And Nutt's better??  I think you should read more threads.

[ToddW]

i think the program is rebuilding and getting to a good point.  heath rebuilt the program which takes time to do.  he was got into the job with nothing after nolan left.  this stuff takes time and we have some pretty good talent.  i say give him another year.  let's see what he can do.

[weresoclose]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

And Nutt's better??  I think you should read more threads.

Funny, I didn't know Nutt was in line for BB HC

I think you should use your brain instead of letting your NuttBlinders keep you from wanting excellence on the basketball court.

[HoustonwehaveaProblem]

I think your points are valid, but you didn't talk about the thing that matters most. Money. Bud Walton hasn't been full in years, while Razorback Stadium has been setting season ticket records for the past couple of years. I don't like Nutt, but people do come to see his players. 10,000 fans at BWA and 69,000 at RRS, those are the numbers that grab the PTB's attention.

[Pigmund Freud]

Yes they can , and will fire Heath, if they can possibly get away with it. The fact that no reasonable person thinks Nutt is any less bland or mediocre than Heath is beside the point. This episode reinforces the evidence that Nutt's connection to the university is somehow tainted, unhealthy, above regular criticism and interminable. This is why it is so mysterious to fans considering objective evidence like his record, that the UA keeps Nutt. The connection/bond /agreement between the school and Nutt is rotten in some way we do not yet know about. There is no other explanation for tolerating him.

[NuttinItUp]

I think your points are valid, but you didn't talk about the thing that matters most. Money. Bud Walton hasn't been full in years, while Razorback Stadium has been setting season ticket records for the past couple of years. I don't like Nutt, but people do come to see his players. 10,000 fans at BWA and 69,000 at RRS, those are the numbers that grab the PTB's attention.

Few points on that: 1) even at capacity, basketball would never approach football numbers, so comparing raw numbers to each other is a bit disingenuous, 2) basketball is a lot less costly to run in terms of players, facilities, etc, so it doesn't take as much to turn the same profit, and 3) there are a lot more basketball games than football games in a season, so you can have less at each game individually.

[weresoclose]

I think your points are valid, but you didn't talk about the thing that matters most. Money. Bud Walton hasn't been full in years, while Razorback Stadium has been setting season ticket records for the past couple of years. I don't like Nutt, but people do come to see his players. 10,000 fans at BWA and 69,000 at RRS, those are the numbers that grab the PTB's attention.

Few points on that: 1) even at capacity, basketball would never approach football numbers, so comparing raw numbers to each other is a bit disingenuous, 2) basketball is a lot less costly to run in terms of players, facilities, etc, so it doesn't take as much to turn the same profit, and 3) there are a lot more basketball games than football games in a season, so you can have less at each game individually.

Which means you have the potential to earn a lot in basketball, if fans come to all the games.  When there are only 10k butts in a 19k arena, something is seriously wrong.  The univ. took one right in the pocketbook again this year.  Lets hope they pull that pocketbook out for BG.

[Biggus Piggus]

They're just hoping Heath leaves on his own at this point.

[311Hog]

Good post i feel exactly the same way.  Anyone who denies the existance of a double standard here is simply not worth listening to anyway because they are so diluted nothing they say could possibly be worth the ban width.

[311Hog]

I think your points are valid, but you didn't talk about the thing that matters most. Money. Bud Walton hasn't been full in years, while Razorback Stadium has been setting season ticket records for the past couple of years. I don't like Nutt, but people do come to see his players. 10,000 fans at BWA and 69,000 at RRS, those are the numbers that grab the PTB's attention.

Few points on that: 1) even at capacity, basketball would never approach football numbers, so comparing raw numbers to each other is a bit disingenuous, 2) basketball is a lot less costly to run in terms of players, facilities, etc, so it doesn't take as much to turn the same profit, and 3) there are a lot more basketball games than football games in a season, so you can have less at each game individually.

Which means you have the potential to earn a lot in basketball, if fans come to all the games.  When there are only 10k butts in a 19k arena, something is seriously wrong.  The univ. took one right in the pocketbook again this year.  Lets hope they pull that pocketbook out for BG.

You obviously flunked Economics class. Max selling capacity DOES NOT equal max profits.

[NuttinItUp]

I think your points are valid, but you didn't talk about the thing that matters most. Money. Bud Walton hasn't been full in years, while Razorback Stadium has been setting season ticket records for the past couple of years. I don't like Nutt, but people do come to see his players. 10,000 fans at BWA and 69,000 at RRS, those are the numbers that grab the PTB's attention.

Few points on that: 1) even at capacity, basketball would never approach football numbers, so comparing raw numbers to each other is a bit disingenuous, 2) basketball is a lot less costly to run in terms of players, facilities, etc, so it doesn't take as much to turn the same profit, and 3) there are a lot more basketball games than football games in a season, so you can have less at each game individually.

Which means you have the potential to earn a lot in basketball, if fans come to all the games.  When there are only 10k butts in a 19k arena, something is seriously wrong.  The univ. took one right in the pocketbook again this year.  Lets hope they pull that pocketbook out for BG.

You obviously flunked Economics class. Max selling capacity DOES NOT equal max profits.

I was about to make the same point. It is much more about pricing.

Study up on demand curves...

[weresoclose]

I think your points are valid, but you didn't talk about the thing that matters most. Money. Bud Walton hasn't been full in years, while Razorback Stadium has been setting season ticket records for the past couple of years. I don't like Nutt, but people do come to see his players. 10,000 fans at BWA and 69,000 at RRS, those are the numbers that grab the PTB's attention.

Few points on that: 1) even at capacity, basketball would never approach football numbers, so comparing raw numbers to each other is a bit disingenuous, 2) basketball is a lot less costly to run in terms of players, facilities, etc, so it doesn't take as much to turn the same profit, and 3) there are a lot more basketball games than football games in a season, so you can have less at each game individually.

Which means you have the potential to earn a lot in basketball, if fans come to all the games.  When there are only 10k butts in a 19k arena, something is seriously wrong.  The univ. took one right in the pocketbook again this year.  Lets hope they pull that pocketbook out for BG.

You obviously flunked Economics class. Max selling capacity DOES NOT equal max profits.

What is this, Econ Theory?  In the real world, when you have an arena with X number of seats, and you're going to employ the same number of staff, use the same electricity, pay the same amount in renovations, pay the same amount to the bank, etc. -- NOT filling those seats means you did NOT maximize profit!

What, are you counting the increase in the water bill for 9k more people to flush the toilets?

We have not outpriced the fans.  THE FANS DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT HEATHBALL.

[311Hog]

I think your points are valid, but you didn't talk about the thing that matters most. Money. Bud Walton hasn't been full in years, while Razorback Stadium has been setting season ticket records for the past couple of years. I don't like Nutt, but people do come to see his players. 10,000 fans at BWA and 69,000 at RRS, those are the numbers that grab the PTB's attention.

Few points on that: 1) even at capacity, basketball would never approach football numbers, so comparing raw numbers to each other is a bit disingenuous, 2) basketball is a lot less costly to run in terms of players, facilities, etc, so it doesn't take as much to turn the same profit, and 3) there are a lot more basketball games than football games in a season, so you can have less at each game individually.

Which means you have the potential to earn a lot in basketball, if fans come to all the games.  When there are only 10k butts in a 19k arena, something is seriously wrong.  The univ. took one right in the pocketbook again this year.  Lets hope they pull that pocketbook out for BG.

You obviously flunked Economics class. Max selling capacity DOES NOT equal max profits.

What is this, Econ Theory?  In the real world, when you have an arena with X number of seats, and you're going to employ the same number of staff, use the same electricity, pay the same amount in renovations, pay the same amount to the bank, etc. -- NOT filling those seats means you did NOT maximize profit!

What, are you counting the increase in the water bill for 9k more people to flush the toilets?

We have not outpriced the fans.  THE FANS DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT HEATHBALL.

How do you know we employeed the same number of people? used the same amount of electricity? can you see the bills for the University of Arkansas? because here is a hint i can.

Fans dont give a crap about Nuttball either what is your point? that it is EASIER for a fan to go to a football game on saturday and tailgate and still enjoy him or herself regardless of how bad we play as compared to going to a basketball game on a Wed or a Tues with no tailgating and no other draw other then the game itself?

[NuttinItUp]

I think your points are valid, but you didn't talk about the thing that matters most. Money. Bud Walton hasn't been full in years, while Razorback Stadium has been setting season ticket records for the past couple of years. I don't like Nutt, but people do come to see his players. 10,000 fans at BWA and 69,000 at RRS, those are the numbers that grab the PTB's attention.

Few points on that: 1) even at capacity, basketball would never approach football numbers, so comparing raw numbers to each other is a bit disingenuous, 2) basketball is a lot less costly to run in terms of players, facilities, etc, so it doesn't take as much to turn the same profit, and 3) there are a lot more basketball games than football games in a season, so you can have less at each game individually.

Which means you have the potential to earn a lot in basketball, if fans come to all the games.  When there are only 10k butts in a 19k arena, something is seriously wrong.  The univ. took one right in the pocketbook again this year.  Lets hope they pull that pocketbook out for BG.

You obviously flunked Economics class. Max selling capacity DOES NOT equal max profits.

What is this, Econ Theory?  In the real world, when you have an arena with X number of seats, and you're going to employ the same number of staff, use the same electricity, pay the same amount in renovations, pay the same amount to the bank, etc. -- NOT filling those seats means you did NOT maximize profit!

What, are you counting the increase in the water bill for 9k more people to flush the toilets?

We have not outpriced the fans.  THE FANS DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT HEATHBALL.

I don't think the final numbers have been released for this year, but last year we were 12th in the nation in terms of attendance. That isn't too shabby. We certainly weren't in the top 12 teams in the nation. (or top 30)

We certainly have a lot higher attendance in basketball in relation to other schools than football. (we certainly weren't in the top 12 in football attendance)

[311Hog]

Here is another tid bit you might be interested in.  The University sells student football tickets for
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<ONE DOLLAR PER TICKET>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.


I can promise you that student tickets for basketball are A HELL OF ALOT MORE THEN ONE DOLLAR and arent even for ALL the home games, hell YOU CANT EVEN BUY SEASON TICKETS FOR THE WHOLE BASKETBALL SEASON you can only buy "Packages" i am here to tell you to your face that the problems with selling out Bud Walton have alot more to do with the way the University SELLS IT then the actually game play.

[weresoclose]

I guess what 311 and NuttinIt think should happen is we charge $7.50 per ticket to bring in the Jr. High kids looking to wonder the halls because they're tired of the mall.  Or are you saying we should jack up the price to $40 because the 10k that showed up will pay anything?  Hmmm.  I'll bet that you both don't know nearly as much about economics as the people in the Athl. Dept. wanting a coaching change for economic reasons.  Of course, you probably believe it's a conspiracy theory anyways.

As a person who lived around BWA, I'll tell you that there are PLENTY of people who can shell out the cost of a basketball ticket if we're winning.  HEATHBALL IS BORING.  HEATHBALL LOSES GAMES WE SHOULD WIN.

[NuttinItUp]

I guess what 311 and NuttinIt think should happen is we charge $7.50 per ticket to bring in the Jr. High kids looking to wonder the halls because they're tired of the mall.  Or are you saying we should jack up the price to $40 because the 10k that showed up will pay anything?  Hmmm.  I'll bet that you both don't know nearly as much about economics as the people in the Athl. Dept. wanting a coaching change for economic reasons.  Of course, you probably believe it's a conspiracy theory anyways.

As a person who lived around BWA, I'll tell you that there are PLENTY of people who can shell out the cost of a basketball ticket if we're winning.  HEATHBALL IS BORING.  HEATHBALL LOSES GAMES WE SHOULD WIN.

No, read my previous post. We were 12th in the nation in basketball attendance last year.

Certainly we were much lower than 12th in attendance in football.

You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

[311Hog]

I guess what 311 and NuttinIt think should happen is we charge $7.50 per ticket to bring in the Jr. High kids looking to wonder the halls because they're tired of the mall.  Or are you saying we should jack up the price to $40 because the 10k that showed up will pay anything?  Hmmm.  I'll bet that you both don't know nearly as much about economics as the people in the Athl. Dept. wanting a coaching change for economic reasons.  Of course, you probably believe it's a conspiracy theory anyways.

As a person who lived around BWA, I'll tell you that there are PLENTY of people who can shell out the cost of a basketball ticket if we're winning.  HEATHBALL IS BORING.  HEATHBALL LOSES GAMES WE SHOULD WIN.

I dunno i recently graduated from the UofA with an Accounting degree and i am currently an Accountant for the UofA, but you are obviously way more qualified then i am to discuss the UofA Finances or Finances in general right?

Fact is the Institution itself discourages students from attending basketball games based on price alone.

[weresoclose]

I think your points are valid, but you didn't talk about the thing that matters most. Money. Bud Walton hasn't been full in years, while Razorback Stadium has been setting season ticket records for the past couple of years. I don't like Nutt, but people do come to see his players. 10,000 fans at BWA and 69,000 at RRS, those are the numbers that grab the PTB's attention.

Few points on that: 1) even at capacity, basketball would never approach football numbers, so comparing raw numbers to each other is a bit disingenuous, 2) basketball is a lot less costly to run in terms of players, facilities, etc, so it doesn't take as much to turn the same profit, and 3) there are a lot more basketball games than football games in a season, so you can have less at each game individually.

Which means you have the potential to earn a lot in basketball, if fans come to all the games.  When there are only 10k butts in a 19k arena, something is seriously wrong.  The univ. took one right in the pocketbook again this year.  Lets hope they pull that pocketbook out for BG.

You obviously flunked Economics class. Max selling capacity DOES NOT equal max profits.

What is this, Econ Theory?  In the real world, when you have an arena with X number of seats, and you're going to employ the same number of staff, use the same electricity, pay the same amount in renovations, pay the same amount to the bank, etc. -- NOT filling those seats means you did NOT maximize profit!

What, are you counting the increase in the water bill for 9k more people to flush the toilets?

We have not outpriced the fans.  THE FANS DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT HEATHBALL.

How do you know we employeed the same number of people? used the same amount of electricity? can you see the bills for the University of Arkansas? because here is a hint i can.

Fans dont give a crap about Nuttball either what is your point? that it is EASIER for a fan to go to a football game on saturday and tailgate and still enjoy him or herself regardless of how bad we play as compared to going to a basketball game on a Wed or a Tues with no tailgating and no other draw other then the game itself?

What, the extra bodies somehow require more lighting?  Listen, the extra amount of electricity it takes to cook 10k hotdogs vs. 5k is offset by a LONGSHOT through the extra revenue brought in through the sale.  

If you can see the numbers, then you must be just flat lying to us all saying that more people in the arena wouldn't maximize profit.  Because it would.

[Ridgerunnerpiggie]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

And Nutt's better??  I think you should read more threads.

Nutt has NOTHING to do with Heath...I wish people would stop trying to equate the two.

[weresoclose]

I guess what 311 and NuttinIt think should happen is we charge $7.50 per ticket to bring in the Jr. High kids looking to wonder the halls because they're tired of the mall.  Or are you saying we should jack up the price to $40 because the 10k that showed up will pay anything?  Hmmm.  I'll bet that you both don't know nearly as much about economics as the people in the Athl. Dept. wanting a coaching change for economic reasons.  Of course, you probably believe it's a conspiracy theory anyways.

As a person who lived around BWA, I'll tell you that there are PLENTY of people who can shell out the cost of a basketball ticket if we're winning.  HEATHBALL IS BORING.  HEATHBALL LOSES GAMES WE SHOULD WIN.

No, read my previous post. We were 12th in the nation in basketball attendance last year.

Certainly we were much lower than 12th in attendance in football.

You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

No, YOU are comparing apples to oranges.  I am specifically talking about basketball attendance.  YOU are trying to throw Nutt in the mix.  This has absolutely NOTHING to do with Nutt, and until you can see that it's like talking to a fencepost.  Get over Nutt.  This is about basketball.

[Karma]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

And Nutt's better??  I think you should read more threads.

Those two things don't have to be related. Heath is a bad coach. With that being said, I think there is virtually no chance he is fired after this season regardless of the outcome of the SC game.

[1go_hogs_go1]

Maybe you should try to stay on topic because the first post specifically compares Nutt's circumstances with Heath's. I'm just sayin...

[311Hog]

I think your points are valid, but you didn't talk about the thing that matters most. Money. Bud Walton hasn't been full in years, while Razorback Stadium has been setting season ticket records for the past couple of years. I don't like Nutt, but people do come to see his players. 10,000 fans at BWA and 69,000 at RRS, those are the numbers that grab the PTB's attention.

Few points on that: 1) even at capacity, basketball would never approach football numbers, so comparing raw numbers to each other is a bit disingenuous, 2) basketball is a lot less costly to run in terms of players, facilities, etc, so it doesn't take as much to turn the same profit, and 3) there are a lot more basketball games than football games in a season, so you can have less at each game individually.

Which means you have the potential to earn a lot in basketball, if fans come to all the games.  When there are only 10k butts in a 19k arena, something is seriously wrong.  The univ. took one right in the pocketbook again this year.  Lets hope they pull that pocketbook out for BG.

You obviously flunked Economics class. Max selling capacity DOES NOT equal max profits.

What is this, Econ Theory?  In the real world, when you have an arena with X number of seats, and you're going to employ the same number of staff, use the same electricity, pay the same amount in renovations, pay the same amount to the bank, etc. -- NOT filling those seats means you did NOT maximize profit!

What, are you counting the increase in the water bill for 9k more people to flush the toilets?

We have not outpriced the fans.  THE FANS DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT HEATHBALL.

How do you know we employeed the same number of people? used the same amount of electricity? can you see the bills for the University of Arkansas? because here is a hint i can.

Fans dont give a crap about Nuttball either what is your point? that it is EASIER for a fan to go to a football game on saturday and tailgate and still enjoy him or herself regardless of how bad we play as compared to going to a basketball game on a Wed or a Tues with no tailgating and no other draw other then the game itself?

What, the extra bodies somehow require more lighting?  Listen, the extra amount of electricity it takes to cook 10k hotdogs vs. 5k is offset by a LONGSHOT through the extra revenue brought in through the sale.  

If you can see the numbers, then you must be just flat lying to us all saying that more people in the arena wouldn't maximize profit.  Because it would.

I am not going to explain to you basic economics, profit is a ratio derived from revenue and expenses.  The BAC can achieve the same profit percentage from varing levels of revenue by matching expenses, some being fixed some being variable.  Quick and dirty example would be something along the lines of, if the building is filled to 75% capacity the BAC would only run the variable expenses to match that level as to keep the profit level the same, sure there is a bottom line attendance figure that needs to be met to cover fixed costs but to stand here and act as if the building has to be "full" in order to turn a profit is a bold face lie.

[NuttinItUp]

I guess what 311 and NuttinIt think should happen is we charge $7.50 per ticket to bring in the Jr. High kids looking to wonder the halls because they're tired of the mall.  Or are you saying we should jack up the price to $40 because the 10k that showed up will pay anything?  Hmmm.  I'll bet that you both don't know nearly as much about economics as the people in the Athl. Dept. wanting a coaching change for economic reasons.  Of course, you probably believe it's a conspiracy theory anyways.

As a person who lived around BWA, I'll tell you that there are PLENTY of people who can shell out the cost of a basketball ticket if we're winning.  HEATHBALL IS BORING.  HEATHBALL LOSES GAMES WE SHOULD WIN.

No, read my previous post. We were 12th in the nation in basketball attendance last year.

Certainly we were much lower than 12th in attendance in football.

You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

No, YOU are comparing apples to oranges.  I am specifically talking about basketball attendance.  YOU are trying to throw Nutt in the mix.  This has absolutely NOTHING to do with Nutt, and until you can see that it's like talking to a fencepost.  Get over Nutt.  This is about basketball.

You are the one that brought up football figures. I never brought up Nutt or football, that was you.

I think 12th in the nation in basketball can stand on its own as good attendance.

[weresoclose]

I guess what 311 and NuttinIt think should happen is we charge $7.50 per ticket to bring in the Jr. High kids looking to wonder the halls because they're tired of the mall.  Or are you saying we should jack up the price to $40 because the 10k that showed up will pay anything?  Hmmm.  I'll bet that you both don't know nearly as much about economics as the people in the Athl. Dept. wanting a coaching change for economic reasons.  Of course, you probably believe it's a conspiracy theory anyways.

As a person who lived around BWA, I'll tell you that there are PLENTY of people who can shell out the cost of a basketball ticket if we're winning.  HEATHBALL IS BORING.  HEATHBALL LOSES GAMES WE SHOULD WIN.

I dunno i recently graduated from the UofA with an Accounting degree and i am currently an Accountant for the UofA, but you are obviously way more qualified then i am to discuss the UofA Finances or Finances in general right?

Fact is the Institution itself discourages students from attending basketball games based on price alone.

I seriously doubt the University would give you the green light to talk about their finances with ANYONE.  Actually that's kindof understood in the professional world, isn't it?  Thousands of struggling Greeks get accounting degrees every year.  That does not impress me one bit.  No I don't think you are qualified--much less allowed--to talk about the finances of the Athl. Dept.  


Now to address your point about it being a "bold face" lie to say that the arena needs to be filled to turn a profit:  NO ONE EVER SAID THAT.  I said that filling your arena to capacity would generate a maximum profit for the university.  BECAUSE, if the arena's filled, you could then toy with the ticket prices, etc.  But the more people who come, the more revenue generated.

Besides basic economics, there's also the thought that having the stadium full would give our basketball team its maximum home advantage.

I guess you think that a half-full arena is good because your flawed economic "theory" suggests that profits could be maximized that way.  Have you ever stopped to think about the basketball team?  How about the fans who would come if they were excited about basketball?

[Cajun Hog]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

And Nutt's better??  I think you should read more threads.

Nutt name isn't in the subject line.........  Stan is a bad coach and yes he can still be fired and should be. IMO

[NuttinItUp]

All this talk is really meaningless. Stan did what he needed and is back next year, so everyone might as well get used to it.

[Cajun Hog]

If Stan were bad, we wouldn't have 21 wins and be in the tourney.  Part of coaching is getting players and he is good at that(a little overrated but overall good).  In game coaching is less than avg.  And motivating his team is less than avg.  I just can't classify him as bad though because if he were we would still be horrible having never rebuilt from the end of the Nolan era.  Stan just isn't the caliber of a top 15 job which this is.

We didn't deserve to be in the big dance IMO and Stan will leave on his own or be fired.  We will get a real coach.

[311Hog]

I guess what 311 and NuttinIt think should happen is we charge $7.50 per ticket to bring in the Jr. High kids looking to wonder the halls because they're tired of the mall.  Or are you saying we should jack up the price to $40 because the 10k that showed up will pay anything?  Hmmm.  I'll bet that you both don't know nearly as much about economics as the people in the Athl. Dept. wanting a coaching change for economic reasons.  Of course, you probably believe it's a conspiracy theory anyways.

As a person who lived around BWA, I'll tell you that there are PLENTY of people who can shell out the cost of a basketball ticket if we're winning.  HEATHBALL IS BORING.  HEATHBALL LOSES GAMES WE SHOULD WIN.

I dunno i recently graduated from the UofA with an Accounting degree and i am currently an Accountant for the UofA, but you are obviously way more qualified then i am to discuss the UofA Finances or Finances in general right?

Fact is the Institution itself discourages students from attending basketball games based on price alone.

I seriously doubt the University would give you the green light to talk about their finances with ANYONE.  Actually that's kindof understood in the professional world, isn't it?  Thousands of struggling Greeks get accounting degrees every year.  That does not impress me one bit.  No I don't think you are qualified--much less allowed--to talk about the finances of the Athl. Dept.  


Now to address your point about it being a "bold face" lie to say that the arena needs to be filled to turn a profit:  NO ONE EVER SAID THAT.  I said that filling your arena to capacity would generate a maximum profit for the university.  BECAUSE, if the arena's filled, you could then toy with the ticket prices, etc.  But the more people who come, the more revenue generated.

Besides basic economics, there's also the thought that having the stadium full would give our basketball team its maximum home advantage.

I guess you think that a half-full arena is good because your flawed economic "theory" suggests that profits could be maximized that way.  Have you ever stopped to think about the basketball team?  How about the fans who would come if they were excited about basketball?

LOL you are a piece of work arent you?


First of all i am not talking specifics about any dept. in the UofA i am speaking generally i dont work in the ATH dept. but i can see their books if i want because the whole University uses the same system.

Secondly i am not trying to impress you i could care less about you, prolly some guy that came to the UofA got drunk every day with his white hat shinning in the sun and subequently left town with a head ach and some vague memories of when they were somebody.

Fact is if the arena is sold out then yes the atmosphere is better, and the team would prolly play better, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN THAT PROFITS WILL BE MAXIMIZED but there are to many unknown factors, such as catering to that number of people would put your variable costs into a bracket sort of like a "luxury" tax. Who knows exactly i would agree having every seat full is a good thing, but i am going to tell you that, is NOT a requirement to keep the business running.

Frank Broyles has operated under this sound business plan for years, if you make enough money to be profitable you will continue to do what you do, it isnt like we rent the building we own it.

Btw i would argue that a full Barnhill is more of a home field advantage then a full Bud Walton because you are diluting the population of REAL FANS, with people who just want to be social and associated with the program because it is "cool" or "uncool" to do so.

Tell me why arent student tickets for basketball 1 dollar like they are for football Economic genius?

If this was all about the basketball team and the atmosphere.

[brodie_hawg]

Apathy for the basketball program is what the PTB are looking at.  We made it to the dance last year and it was reported that donations and ticket sales still did not go up.  THe basketball program needs something to revitalize the fans and short of a final four this year, I do not see that happening.

I agree that he was not left with much by nolan but what about other teams.  Was huggins left with much at k-state or was floyd left with much when he took over at USC.  Big time coaches can turn a program around in 2 years like both of those coaches have.

[brodie_hawg]

Its not just about ticket sales.  Yes you make money off that but its also about donations.  The big money donations have dropped.

[311Hog]

Apathy for the basketball program is what the PTB are looking at.  We made it to the dance last year and it was reported that donations and ticket sales still did not go up.  THe basketball program needs something to revitalize the fans and short of a final four this year, I do not see that happening.

I agree that he was not left with much by nolan but what about other teams.  Was huggins left with much at k-state or was floyd left with much when he took over at USC.  Big time coaches can turn a program around in 2 years like both of those coaches have.

Sorry but your examples are flawed.  K-state was never good in basketball and mark my words they will be investigated by the NCAA very soon because Huggins doesnt play by the rules. and USC ? are you freaking kidding me?

If their football program can have the single best recruiting class for the past 5 years + how hard exactly do you think it would be to get basketball players to go there? Why do you think Florida and Ohio State are prolly going to play for the NC in football AND basketball ? because if you can recruit on that level for one sport you can obviously do it for both.

[edt]

Its about MONEY, attendence, ticket sales and donations are down. The program is wallowing in apathy. I seriously doubt Stan will be coaching here next year unless he makes the sweet 16, even then he may leave on his own.

[dirtydoghog]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

And Nutt's better??  I think you should read more threads.

Oh yes, you know the SEC coaches know absoluty nothing and only fans on this message board truely know football.  See, the coaches voted HDN the coach of the year so they must just all be stupid.  Thank you for making sure we know how much more you know than all the coaches in the best conference in the country.  You should just stop posting all together.............

[311Hog]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

And Nutt's better??  I think you should read more threads.

Oh yes, you know the SEC coaches know absoluty nothing and only fans on this message board truely know football.  See, the coaches voted HDN the coach of the year so they must just all be stupid.  Thank you for making sure we know how much more you know than all the coaches in the best conference in the country.  You should just stop posting all together.............

actually they arent stupid but they are obtuse.  You see when a coach has back to back losing seasons and then "goes to the SECCG" that means that coach is a LOCK for the coach of the year.

COach of the Year just means "Best fell good story" of the year it has ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS IN ABILITIES. It just means "hey COach Nutt has been having a hard time but had a good year this year record wise he is the coach of the year".

[ICEman]

Nutt with all of his Nuttiness averaged better than 95% (non and conference) of sell-out/attendance in '06; Heath averaged about 70% (all games non and conference) of sellout/attendance and Heath's attendance is trending negative.

[dirtydoghog]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

And Nutt's better??  I think you should read more threads.

Oh yes, you know the SEC coaches know absoluty nothing and only fans on this message board truely know football.  See, the coaches voted HDN the coach of the year so they must just all be stupid.  Thank you for making sure we know how much more you know than all the coaches in the best conference in the country.  You should just stop posting all together.............

actually they arent stupid but they are obtuse.  You see when a coach has back to back losing seasons and then "goes to the SECCG" that means that coach is a LOCK for the coach of the year.

COach of the Year just means "Best fell good story" of the year it has ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS IN ABILITIES. It just means "hey COach Nutt has been having a hard time but had a good year this year record wise he is the coach of the year".

That's the spin was looking for.  I should have known that the other coaches in the SEC were also blinded by Nutt and forced to vote for him. 

[311Hog]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

And Nutt's better??  I think you should read more threads.

Oh yes, you know the SEC coaches know absoluty nothing and only fans on this message board truely know football.  See, the coaches voted HDN the coach of the year so they must just all be stupid.  Thank you for making sure we know how much more you know than all the coaches in the best conference in the country.  You should just stop posting all together.............

actually they arent stupid but they are obtuse.  You see when a coach has back to back losing seasons and then "goes to the SECCG" that means that coach is a LOCK for the coach of the year.

COach of the Year just means "Best fell good story" of the year it has ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS IN ABILITIES. It just means "hey COach Nutt has been having a hard time but had a good year this year record wise he is the coach of the year".

That's the spin was looking for.  I should have known that the other coaches in the SEC were also blinded by Nutt and forced to vote for him. 

Are you dense? THEY WOULD VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT MET THOSE CRITERIA.

If Sylvester Croom at MSU wins 8 games next year and goes to a bowl game HE WILL BE THE COACH OF THE YEAR, DOES THAT IN ANY WAY MEAN THE GUY CAN COACH? No absolutely not that means the guy has had shiety years previous to this one shining moment and the rest of the league is trying to give him some love for it.

Simply put, you dont win Coach of the Year awards if you are a great winning coach EVERY season you win championship trophies and the other petty awards are given to those that are likely to struggle once again.

[weresoclose]

I guess what 311 and NuttinIt think should happen is we charge $7.50 per ticket to bring in the Jr. High kids looking to wonder the halls because they're tired of the mall.  Or are you saying we should jack up the price to $40 because the 10k that showed up will pay anything?  Hmmm.  I'll bet that you both don't know nearly as much about economics as the people in the Athl. Dept. wanting a coaching change for economic reasons.  Of course, you probably believe it's a conspiracy theory anyways.

As a person who lived around BWA, I'll tell you that there are PLENTY of people who can shell out the cost of a basketball ticket if we're winning.  HEATHBALL IS BORING.  HEATHBALL LOSES GAMES WE SHOULD WIN.

I dunno i recently graduated from the UofA with an Accounting degree and i am currently an Accountant for the UofA, but you are obviously way more qualified then i am to discuss the UofA Finances or Finances in general right?

Fact is the Institution itself discourages students from attending basketball games based on price alone.

I seriously doubt the University would give you the green light to talk about their finances with ANYONE.  Actually that's kindof understood in the professional world, isn't it?  Thousands of struggling Greeks get accounting degrees every year.  That does not impress me one bit.  No I don't think you are qualified--much less allowed--to talk about the finances of the Athl. Dept.  


Now to address your point about it being a "bold face" lie to say that the arena needs to be filled to turn a profit:  NO ONE EVER SAID THAT.  I said that filling your arena to capacity would generate a maximum profit for the university.  BECAUSE, if the arena's filled, you could then toy with the ticket prices, etc.  But the more people who come, the more revenue generated.

Besides basic economics, there's also the thought that having the stadium full would give our basketball team its maximum home advantage.

I guess you think that a half-full arena is good because your flawed economic "theory" suggests that profits could be maximized that way.  Have you ever stopped to think about the basketball team?  How about the fans who would come if they were excited about basketball?

LOL you are a piece of work arent you?


First of all i am not talking specifics about any dept. in the UofA i am speaking generally i dont work in the ATH dept. but i can see their books if i want because the whole University uses the same system.

Secondly i am not trying to impress you i could care less about you, prolly some guy that came to the UofA got drunk every day with his white hat shinning in the sun and subequently left town with a head ach and some vague memories of when they were somebody.

Fact is if the arena is sold out then yes the atmosphere is better, and the team would prolly play better, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN THAT PROFITS WILL BE MAXIMIZED but there are to many unknown factors, such as catering to that number of people would put your variable costs into a bracket sort of like a "luxury" tax. Who knows exactly i would agree having every seat full is a good thing, but i am going to tell you that, is NOT a requirement to keep the business running.

Frank Broyles has operated under this sound business plan for years, if you make enough money to be profitable you will continue to do what you do, it isnt like we rent the building we own it.

Btw i would argue that a full Barnhill is more of a home field advantage then a full Bud Walton because you are diluting the population of REAL FANS, with people who just want to be social and associated with the program because it is "cool" or "uncool" to do so.

Tell me why arent student tickets for basketball 1 dollar like they are for football Economic genius?

If this was all about the basketball team and the atmosphere.

Thank you for acknowledging my genius.

In answer to your question, not only should student tickets be cheap, but the student section should extend across the entire sideline.  It might take a year or two for the geezer boosters to get used to it, but they would.  The revenue lost from ticket sales could then be allocated from another part of the budget.  It could be done, and it should be done.

Your loose theory that profits would be higher if we didn't pack BWA every game only has merit if you could prove that costs incurred from the extra fans outweighed revenue they brought in.  I don't think you can do that convincingly.  Even if it were possible, that notion simply is not good for Razorback Basketball.

If we lowered costs, theoretically we could keep the bb program running with 5000 or fewer fans in attendance.  That means nothing to me.

I think you have gone too far in justifying low attendance, percentage-wise based on number of available seats.  I think you are trying to justify it so you can put forth your notion that Heath should stay, despite the fact that there are readily available examples to show that a better coach would have already taken this program back to elite status.

The argument for keeping Heath, sadly, has everything to do with Nutt.  

Cutting him loose, on the other hand, has to do with under-performance and dissatisfaction with the BASKETBALL program.  It also has to do with a vision of returning Razorback Basketball to elite status.

[311Hog]

For Clarification purposes i want both Heath and Nutt fired, but Nutt shoulda been fired years ago.  I honestly believe the blue bloods need to sit in luxury boxes way up on high and let the people with a pulse surround the field or the court in order to provide that energy that is lacking mainly because so many of the attendees are so near death they may pass at any moment.

I do not think Heath is NEAR the point of termination that Nutt is, and therefore i do not wish to endure another racial battle over their dismissals.  Also i do not believe you let Heath go unless you got Bill Gillispie on board 100%, because if you let Heath go and end up with someone worse what say you then?

Heath for all his faults has "improved" every year this is 100% fact especially if they win tomorrow. My point about not having to max revenue is that, if the only reason you got for firing him is that Bud Walton isnt "full" then you need to look around to other programs because very few programs around the nation are half as successful as we are even with a half full bud walton.

[dirtydoghog]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

And Nutt's better??  I think you should read more threads.

Oh yes, you know the SEC coaches know absoluty nothing and only fans on this message board truely know football.  See, the coaches voted HDN the coach of the year so they must just all be stupid.  Thank you for making sure we know how much more you know than all the coaches in the best conference in the country.  You should just stop posting all together.............

actually they arent stupid but they are obtuse.  You see when a coach has back to back losing seasons and then "goes to the SECCG" that means that coach is a LOCK for the coach of the year.

COach of the Year just means "Best fell good story" of the year it has ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS IN ABILITIES. It just means "hey COach Nutt has been having a hard time but had a good year this year record wise he is the coach of the year".

That's the spin was looking for.  I should have known that the other coaches in the SEC were also blinded by Nutt and forced to vote for him. 

Are you dense? THEY WOULD VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT MET THOSE CRITERIA.

If Sylvester Croom at MSU wins 8 games next year and goes to a bowl game HE WILL BE THE COACH OF THE YEAR, DOES THAT IN ANY WAY MEAN THE GUY CAN COACH? No absolutely not that means the guy has had shiety years previous to this one shining moment and the rest of the league is trying to give him some love for it.

Simply put, you dont win Coach of the Year awards if you are a great winning coach EVERY season you win championship trophies and the other petty awards are given to those that are likely to struggle once again.

The more you talk the dumber you get.  Roy Williams won National Coach of the Year in 2005.  Are you telling that Roy has lost every year?  Keep working in the spin, it's fun to watch.

[weresoclose]

For Clarification purposes i want both Heath and Nutt fired, but Nutt shoulda been fired years ago.  I honestly believe the blue bloods need to sit in luxury boxes way up on high and let the people with a pulse surround the field or the court in order to provide that energy that is lacking mainly because so many of the attendees are so near death they may pass at any moment.

I do not think Heath is NEAR the point of termination that Nutt is, and therefore i do not wish to endure another racial battle over their dismissals.  Also i do not believe you let Heath go unless you got Bill Gillispie on board 100%, because if you let Heath go and end up with someone worse what say you then?

Heath for all his faults has "improved" every year this is 100% fact especially if they win tomorrow. My point about not having to max revenue is that, if the only reason you got for firing him is that Bud Walton isnt "full" then you need to look around to other programs because very few programs around the nation are half as successful as we are even with a half full bud walton.

Not only am I happy that we were 12th in the nation in bb attendence, but I am happy to say that I think we could be even higher.  Arkansas has some of the best, most loyal and enthusiastic fans in the country--that's not just talk, it's well known in the sporting world.  If we give the fans a product they're excited about, they will pack out BWA.  If, like these past few years, we give them a product that fails to elicit a hogwild attitude, we end up with attendence figures like we experienced as this season went along.  

Heath has improved the basketball program at about the same pace as his style of basketball on the court.  The late run--two years in a row--is not enough.  We need a lightning rod to juice up our dead batteries, and my opinion is that it is coming in the near future.  I hope I'm not wrong about this, because otherwise it's gonna be a long 3-5 years before a change is made.

[311Hog]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

And Nutt's better??  I think you should read more threads.

Oh yes, you know the SEC coaches know absoluty nothing and only fans on this message board truely know football.  See, the coaches voted HDN the coach of the year so they must just all be stupid.  Thank you for making sure we know how much more you know than all the coaches in the best conference in the country.  You should just stop posting all together.............

actually they arent stupid but they are obtuse.  You see when a coach has back to back losing seasons and then "goes to the SECCG" that means that coach is a LOCK for the coach of the year.

COach of the Year just means "Best fell good story" of the year it has ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS IN ABILITIES. It just means "hey COach Nutt has been having a hard time but had a good year this year record wise he is the coach of the year".

That's the spin was looking for.  I should have known that the other coaches in the SEC were also blinded by Nutt and forced to vote for him. 

Are you dense? THEY WOULD VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT MET THOSE CRITERIA.

If Sylvester Croom at MSU wins 8 games next year and goes to a bowl game HE WILL BE THE COACH OF THE YEAR, DOES THAT IN ANY WAY MEAN THE GUY CAN COACH? No absolutely not that means the guy has had shiety years previous to this one shining moment and the rest of the league is trying to give him some love for it.

Simply put, you dont win Coach of the Year awards if you are a great winning coach EVERY season you win championship trophies and the other petty awards are given to those that are likely to struggle once again.

The more you talk the dumber you get.  Roy Williams won National Coach of the Year in 2005.  Are you telling that Roy has lost every year?  Keep working in the spin, it's fun to watch.

I am telling you that Roy Williams took massive amounts of heat for always having the McDonald's all americans yet always getting bounced early in the Big Dance and never winning it all when he finally did he got the "covetted" Coach of the Year award.

[dirtydoghog]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

And Nutt's better??  I think you should read more threads.

Oh yes, you know the SEC coaches know absoluty nothing and only fans on this message board truely know football.  See, the coaches voted HDN the coach of the year so they must just all be stupid.  Thank you for making sure we know how much more you know than all the coaches in the best conference in the country.  You should just stop posting all together.............

actually they arent stupid but they are obtuse.  You see when a coach has back to back losing seasons and then "goes to the SECCG" that means that coach is a LOCK for the coach of the year.

COach of the Year just means "Best fell good story" of the year it has ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS IN ABILITIES. It just means "hey COach Nutt has been having a hard time but had a good year this year record wise he is the coach of the year".

That's the spin was looking for.  I should have known that the other coaches in the SEC were also blinded by Nutt and forced to vote for him. 

Are you dense? THEY WOULD VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT MET THOSE CRITERIA.

If Sylvester Croom at MSU wins 8 games next year and goes to a bowl game HE WILL BE THE COACH OF THE YEAR, DOES THAT IN ANY WAY MEAN THE GUY CAN COACH? No absolutely not that means the guy has had shiety years previous to this one shining moment and the rest of the league is trying to give him some love for it.

Simply put, you dont win Coach of the Year awards if you are a great winning coach EVERY season you win championship trophies and the other petty awards are given to those that are likely to struggle once again.

The more you talk the dumber you get.  Roy Williams won National Coach of the Year in 2005.  Are you telling that Roy has lost every year?  Keep working in the spin, it's fun to watch.

I am telling you that Roy Williams took massive amounts of heat for always having the McDonald's all americans yet always getting bounced early in the Big Dance and never winning it all when he finally did he got the "covetted" Coach of the Year award.

You may be saying that now, but here is the orignal statement you made:
"Simply put, you dont win Coach of the Year awards if you are a great winning coach EVERY season you win championship trophies and the other petty awards are given to those that are likely to struggle once again.""
Roy Williams was not losing when he won that award, in fact he was averaging 28+ wins per year and has never really struggled. 

[311Hog]

Heath is a BAD coach. 

And Nutt's better??  I think you should read more threads.

Oh yes, you know the SEC coaches know absoluty nothing and only fans on this message board truely know football.  See, the coaches voted HDN the coach of the year so they must just all be stupid.  Thank you for making sure we know how much more you know than all the coaches in the best conference in the country.  You should just stop posting all together.............

actually they arent stupid but they are obtuse.  You see when a coach has back to back losing seasons and then "goes to the SECCG" that means that coach is a LOCK for the coach of the year.

COach of the Year just means "Best fell good story" of the year it has ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS IN ABILITIES. It just means "hey COach Nutt has been having a hard time but had a good year this year record wise he is the coach of the year".

That's the spin was looking for.  I should have known that the other coaches in the SEC were also blinded by Nutt and forced to vote for him. 

Are you dense? THEY WOULD VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT MET THOSE CRITERIA.

If Sylvester Croom at MSU wins 8 games next year and goes to a bowl game HE WILL BE THE COACH OF THE YEAR, DOES THAT IN ANY WAY MEAN THE GUY CAN COACH? No absolutely not that means the guy has had shiety years previous to this one shining moment and the rest of the league is trying to give him some love for it.

Simply put, you dont win Coach of the Year awards if you are a great winning coach EVERY season you win championship trophies and the other petty awards are given to those that are likely to struggle once again.

The more you talk the dumber you get.  Roy Williams won National Coach of the Year in 2005.  Are you telling that Roy has lost every year?  Keep working in the spin, it's fun to watch.

I am telling you that Roy Williams took massive amounts of heat for always having the McDonald's all americans yet always getting bounced early in the Big Dance and never winning it all when he finally did he got the "covetted" Coach of the Year award.

You may be saying that now, but here is the orignal statement you made:
"Simply put, you dont win Coach of the Year awards if you are a great winning coach EVERY season you win championship trophies and the other petty awards are given to those that are likely to struggle once again.""
Roy Williams was not losing when he won that award, in fact he was averaging 28+ wins per year and has never really struggled. 

Dont you understand that the term "winning" is relative? People were coming down hard on Roy for along time because of his team's choke jobs in the big dance. Sure Roy William's standard of winning is far beyond that of HDN, but the same idea applies.

[31to6]

you cannot fire your black basketball coach after back-to-back-to-back winning seasons.

Isn't it fundamentally racist to say that Heath should keep his job because he is black?

How would you like to be Heath and know (assuming this is true) that the ONLY reason you kept your job was because of your skin color.

WWMLKS? (What Would Martin Luther King Say)

The decision of whether to keep a basketball coach should boil down to "Do we continue to believe that this coach will take Arkansas to the Final Four?" If that answer is no, then no amount of winning seasons are acceptable. A 20-win season is no big deal. 104 schools had 20 wins this year. Last year there were fewer, but still 78. Are our aspirations and expectations that we have a coach that can make sure we are in the top 70!?!?!?!

Hell no.

I don't care if he is purple if he wins.

The jury is still out on Heath. We know he lacks some skills but he has heart, integrity and can recruit. If he can improve in the other categories will continuing to build success, sure he can stay. But if he peaks at one-and-out he has to go.