Back-up QB

[lakecityhog]

http://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2017/aug/03/arkansas-could-emphasize-backup-qbs-more/

I really think it will be Storey, but regardless I would like to see the back-up QB get 1 series in the 1st half and 1 series in the 3rd quarter with the ones in as many of the early games as possible. Get him some MEANINGFUL snaps with the starters.
This would give him a better chance to be successful with the starters around him.
Playing early would maybe add a bit of pressure, but not be do or die.

Once the game is in hand give the back-up time with maybe a mixture of 1's and 2's and run the game plan. Let him play the game as though it was still in doubt. Then if time allows get the 3rd guy in  for a series or two.

[ATU HOG]

I was thinking about this the other day... I'm glad CBB didn't pull the redshirt of Austin Allen in 13 during the Rutgers game.

[EulessHog]

I'm going with Cole Kelley.  He has more upside. Stars and seniority, relative to potential, mean little at this position.

[daBoar]

I'm going with Cole Kelley. 

I'm going with AA; keep him in the game until we're assured we will win.  I don't believe #2 or #3 are close to AA.  If AA goes down, the season's in gross trouble.

[Bkhardicars]

I was thinking the exact same thing. I would like to see the offensive line play a lot to build cohesiveness, but my perfect scenario would be for Austin to play the first series of the 2nd half, then put the #2 guy in with the first team. Give him a fair chance to shine and build confidence..

[12247]

We absolutely need a good 2nd QB who has had meaningful minutes running the offense instead of the clock down.   There is no excuse good enough for what we settle for behind the 1st string QB. 

[hview]

It might help for AA and the receivers to get as many repetitions as possible in preparation for TCU. I agree it would be good to play the backup QB, but TCU is going to be a challenge.

[Dwillhog66]

We absolutely need a good 2nd QB who has had meaningful minutes running the offense instead of the clock down.   There is no excuse good enough for what we settle for behind the 1st string QB.

AA got nothing but handoff duties while he was 2nd string QB. How'd he do last year.
The obsession some have with the playing time of the 2nd team QB is comical.
It seems to me the reps needed will be found in practice time and not game time.

[tophawg19]

AA got nothing but handoff duties while he was 2nd string QB. How'd he do last year.
The obsession some have with the playing time of the 2nd team QB is comical.
It seems to me the reps needed will be found in practice time and not game time.

big difference between game and practice .

[presidenthog]

We absolutely need a good 2nd QB who has had meaningful minutes running the offense instead of the clock down.   There is no excuse good enough for what we settle for behind the 1st string QB.

Please name me one big time program that lets their back up take a series right now in the current college football climate? I'll be waiting because the answer is none.

[Tusks]

Well Tyler Wilson came in off the bench in one of the biggest games of the year in college football and lit it up, so whatever you have to do to get that, do it.

[presidenthog]

Well Tyler Wilson came in off the bench in one of the biggest games of the year in college football and lit it up, so whatever you have to do to get that, do it.

Because the starter was hurt. Not because Bobby just needed to get his back up some experience.

[hogsanity]

Please name me one big time program that lets their back up take a series right now in the current college football climate? I'll be waiting because the answer is none.

Exactly. this comes up every year. Fans saying the coach needs to play the backup for X series in MEANINGFUL game situations ( like the 3rd series against TCU or some other similar situation ). No one does this. 98% of the time backup only plays if the starter gets hurt, the team is way behind or way ahead, or the starter is sucking and the backup is just as good but less experienced.

[Dwillhog66]

Well Tyler Wilson came in off the bench in one of the biggest games of the year in college football and lit it up, so whatever you have to do to get that, do it.

Which only proves that the backup didn't need any meaningful snaps prior to that point to be successful.
Backup QBs get their reps in practice.

[daprospecta]

Which only proves that the backup didn't need any meaningful snaps prior to that point to be successful.
Backup QBs get their reps in practice.

First and foremost, QB's are not hit in practice. Second, mop up games are made to get the starters sharp and try a few things out and when you are up 4-5 touchdowns, you bring in your 2nd units to gain experience.

[presidenthog]

First and foremost, QB's are not hit in practice. Second, mop up games are made to get the starters sharp and try a few things out and when you are up 4-5 touchdowns, you bring in your 2nd units to gain experience.

And we 100% do that. The problem is until the last few years we haven't been talented or experienced enough to get that far ahead.

We have fans pretending we still live in the holtz era and the 2nd series we need to let the back up run the offense. Hell while we are at it we should bust out the wing t or the veer.

News flash. No one does this. Bowl prep is meant for this. The truth of the matter is in this era of football so many points are scored your best qb has to play ever meaningful snap in a game unless it is a 100% blowout by 5 tds.

[1highhog]

big difference between game and practice .

Do you remember how many years AA had to wait sitting on that bench waiting on the opportunity to get on that playing field?  He had a LOT of practice time waiting on his chance to finally play.  AA will take some lumps this season even with a better OLine this season, when and opportunity presents itself to get your 2nd string QB some in game experience you better take it.

[GuvHog]

I was thinking the exact same thing. I would like to see the offensive line play a lot to build cohesiveness, but my perfect scenario would be for Austin to play the first series of the 2nd half, then put the #2 guy in with the first team. Give him a fair chance to shine and build confidence..

This might happen against New Mexico State or Coastal Carolina but I seriously doubt it happens against FAMU. My guess is the coaches will play the starters longer than usual regardless of the score to get them ready for TCU so the #2 QB will probably play the 4th quarter.

[nwahogfan1]

I agree with you that the back up needs some playing time in the 1st half  in those money games Plus more  snaps in the 2nd half when ever possible or we will be crying next year about not having a QB with any experience.   But the odds are me and you will not see a QB except in the final minutes of the game and he will only hand off the ball or take a knee.  I like CBB but we do not see eye to eye in everything.

[jgphillips3]

The only time I want to see a #2 QB get 1st half snaps is when he is so good, he is almost #1 and they are trying to determine if he should be.  I DO want to see #2 play the last quarter plus maybe a hair in the third because we are finally whipping rent a win teams.  I also never again want to see CBB go full retard and play a clearly injured starter over the backup and lose the game (ala Mizzou 2014).

[CPO Hog]

I want to see the best QB on the field until we are so far ahead that it's mathematical impossible for the other team to "come back" and win.

Can you imagine the Hog Nation implosion if the #2 QB threw a pick 6 (getting him experience) in a money game and we lose by 1-6? Think about it... It would be on every high light reel on TV. CBB & the Hogs would be the laughing stock of CFB.

[gchamblee]

I sure hope TCU tries to get their backup some quality play time against us. I hope their coaches are as ignorant as some of our fans.

12247 likes to rag on CBB in every post he makes. I guarantee you, if we lost to TCU by 1 score, and CBB let our backup QB play a series or 2 in that game, like 12247 wants, he would be the first on here crying about how he needs to be fired right now. He talks out both sides of his mouth.

[hogsanity]

I agree with you that the back up needs some playing time in the 1st half  in those money games Plus more  snaps in the 2nd half when ever possible or we will be crying next year about not having a QB with any experience.   But the odds are me and you will not see a QB except in the final minutes of the game and he will only hand off the ball or take a knee.  I like CBB but we do not see eye to eye in everything.

Actually, you do not see eye to eye with just about every FBS level, and probably every level down to NAIA or maybe 7yr old rinky dink. The backup qb just does not get much playing time, unless the starter is hurt or the game is a 35+ point blowout.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I am a believer in getting a back up some valuable reps 1 to 2 seasons out from when he actually becomes a starter. I think that it can be invaluable. But in our situation, as DaProspecta pointed out above, many of the G-5 games earlier in our seasons have been used to help the starter(s) get their timing down and get prepared for the SEC run.

The problem for us is that there haven't been many opportunities after the first part of the season where we have had comfortable enough leads, to be able to insert a back up for mere experience.

[hogsanity]

I am a believer in getting a back up some valuable reps 1 to 2 seasons out from when he actually becomes a starter.

How many FBS schools are doing that? Of course we would have to define "valuable reps" I guess.

[Deep Shoat]

How many FBS schools are doing that? Of course we would have to define "valuable reps" I guess.

You are wasting pixels on a tired argument.  Those who want the nd team QB to get "meaningful reps" will never change their mind.  After all, it's what 10% of coaches did 40 years ago.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

How many FBS schools are doing that? Of course we would have to define "valuable reps" I guess.

You are wasting pixels on a tired argument.  Those who want the nd team QB to get "meaningful reps" will never change their mind.  After all, it's what 10% of coaches did 40 years ago.

"Meaningful reps" depends on the position of course. If we are talking about a QB, as I pointed out above, we haven't had too many opportunities over the years to be able to give a back up QB a chance to come in and actually run the full offense to be able to acquire valuable experience. Just because I believe in the concept and think that is a good thing to be able to do doesn't mean that I am being unreasonable or even wrong in my opinion. It would be a good thing to be able to do, but I do understand why it happens infrequently at QB.

Other positions are different where you actually need players to be able to rotate to keep everyone fresh. If you don't have enough quality depth to be able to do that then you have people complaining about players not getting "valuable reps" and the first team being worn out.

[gchamblee]

"Meaningful reps" depends on the position of course. If we are talking about a QB, as I pointed out above, we haven't had too many opportunities over the years to be able to give a back up QB a chance to come in and actually run the full offense to be able to acquire valuable experience. Just because I believe in the concept and think that is a good thing to be able to do doesn't mean that I am being unreasonable or even wrong in my opinion. It would be a good thing to be able to do, but I do understand why it happens infrequently at QB.

Other positions are different where you actually need players to be able to rotate to keep everyone fresh. If you don't have enough quality depth to be able to do that then you have people complaining about players not getting "valuable reps" and the first team being worn out.

Truth

[Sed76]

If you put in a back up then let the guy play. Never have understood putting a guy in just to hand off or kneel down. Never know when something might happen and a back up has to play. Would be nice if he had seen a real defense coming after him without the benefit of a no contact jersey being worn.

[bennyl08]

"Meaningful reps" depends on the position of course. If we are talking about a QB, as I pointed out above, we haven't had too many opportunities over the years to be able to give a back up QB a chance to come in and actually run the full offense to be able to acquire valuable experience. Just because I believe in the concept and think that is a good thing to be able to do doesn't mean that I am being unreasonable or even wrong in my opinion. It would be a good thing to be able to do, but I do understand why it happens infrequently at QB.

Other positions are different where you actually need players to be able to rotate to keep everyone fresh. If you don't have enough quality depth to be able to do that then you have people complaining about players not getting "valuable reps" and the first team being worn out.

The question to me becomes, how can a qb get meaningful reps in a meaningless game? If you are in such a position to put in your backups with 20+ min of game time left, then even with the opposing defense being allowed to hit the qb and such, the backup is going to be challenged more during practice against the 2nd team defense than he ever would be in this game. Even just getting used to playing in front of others will be minimized as many fans leave the stadium by that point.

Further, if you run your offense the same here as you did to start the game and thus giving the qb real reps, then the cock will stop, there will be significantly more plays run and you increase the risk of injury to other backups who do get occasional reps in other games and are risking injury here for nothing and the team loses depth for the games that the backup doesn't come in.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that ideally, yeah, the backup qb could get experience in meaningful situations. It becomes quite the contradiction. You need depth of players in other games where the backup qb doesn't come in. You put that depth in jeopardy when you extend a meaningless game by not running the clock. So, how does the backup qb gain experience? It becomes a question of what risks you are willing to take. Are you going to gamble on the qb gaining the experience he needs in practice reps and a rare pass in mop up duty, or are you going to gamble on injuries in a game where the other team has nothing to lose, everything to gain, in a competition that easier on your players than an intrasquad scrimmage?

[KlubhouseKonnected]

I tend to agree with the author in that listening to the way the coaches have spoken in interviews you just get the feeling that they see Kelly eventually overtaking Storey but that at least up until now Storey's knowledge and, for lack of a better term, higher "risk aversion" or decision making, he is the top back up in the event we lose Austin to a short term injury. Should Austin go down with a season ended with more than half the season to play I suspect they may reevaluate who would ultimately take the reigns.

For those reasons I expect that Storey will remain the #2 unless in the next few weeks Kelly clearly displays that he is equal to or greater than Storey in both of those areas.

[bennyl08]

If you put in a back up then let the guy play. Never have understood putting a guy in just to hand off or kneel down. Never know when something might happen and a back up has to play. Would be nice if he had seen a real defense coming after him without the benefit of a no contact jersey being worn.

The reasoning is simple. Football is a dangerous sport. By the time the backups are in, the game is decided and clearly. Iron sharpens iron and if the backups are in, clearly, the other team is more like chalk so there won't be much sharpening going on. You are getting the quarterback reps but extending the game and forcing more reps to be taken risking injury to players who do get experience in other games are unlike the backup qb, don't need situations like this to get reps, risking depth for future games where the backup qb isn't needed, but depth is to keep the starters fresh.

Risking injury in the 4th quarter of an FCS game can do less to improve the team than risking injury during fall camp practices.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The question to me becomes, how can a qb get meaningful reps in a meaningless game? If you are in such a position to put in your backups with 20+ min of game time left, then even with the opposing defense being allowed to hit the qb and such, the backup is going to be challenged more during practice against the 2nd team defense than he ever would be in this game. Even just getting used to playing in front of others will be minimized as many fans leave the stadium by that point.

Further, if you run your offense the same here as you did to start the game and thus giving the qb real reps, then the cock will stop, there will be significantly more plays run and you increase the risk of injury to other backups who do get occasional reps in other games and are risking injury here for nothing and the team loses depth for the games that the backup doesn't come in.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that ideally, yeah, the backup qb could get experience in meaningful situations. It becomes quite the contradiction. You need depth of players in other games where the backup qb doesn't come in. You put that depth in jeopardy when you extend a meaningless game by not running the clock. So, how does the backup qb gain experience? It becomes a question of what risks you are willing to take. Are you going to gamble on the qb gaining the experience he needs in practice reps and a rare pass in mop up duty, or are you going to gamble on injuries in a game where the other team has nothing to lose, everything to gain, in a competition that easier on your players than an intrasquad scrimmage?

When you are a back-up QB, unless you are just going in to take a knee or be a hander-offer, if you are allowed to actually run the offense and run some plays, a couple of series or three, it can be very meaningful and valuable to someone who is usually holding a clipboard or sending in signals. I don't care who it is against, if you haven't taken many live game snaps, it is all valuable.

[bennyl08]

When you are a back-up QB, unless you are just going in to take a knee or be a hander-offer, if you are allowed to actually run the offense and run some plays, a couple of series or three, it can be very meaningful and valuable to someone who is holding a clipboard or sending in signals. I don't care who it is against, if you haven't taken many live game snaps, it is all valuable.

From a mentality standpoint, I can absolutely see that. Keeps morale up, etc...

However, I've played my fair share of sports and there were plenty of times where the team we played was so bad, that us goofing on in practice was still more challenging and taught us more than playing against the opposing team.

When the backup for us is playing against the backups from Nichol's State, we could field nothing but our walk-ons and win that game 50-17. I fail to see how such an experience would do more to prepare a backup qb for play in the SEC than practicing.

Just because the opposing team is allowed to hit our qb, doesn't mean they will, and with the game in such a situation that the backups are in, there's a good chance the only grass/turf stains he'll get is in celebration of a touchdown or something. Could you give me a detailed explanation on the value for a backup qb to play in front of 10k remaining fans against an FCS team's backups? You have more experience here than me, so I'd like to hear.

[hogsanity]

You are wasting pixels on a tired argument.  Those who want the nd team QB to get "meaningful reps" will never change their mind.  After all, it's what 10% of coaches did 40 years ago.

I know. What bugs me though is they act like BB is the only coach not playing his backup

[Deep Shoat]

I know. What bugs me though is they act like BB is the only coach not playing his backup

Here, let's see if they answer me since they are ignoring you.

For all of you "get the backup a series in the first half" folks, name me one successful coach doing that today.

[hobhog]

Here, let's see if they answer me since they are ignoring you.

For all of you "get the backup a series in the first half" folks, name me one successful coach doing that today.

NFL never plays back up- it's weird. youd think theyd want to protect starter from injury but never do in blow outs.

Back to OP- Sounds like Storey is 2nd right now, but concerns me they state they have "corrected" his throwing motion. Im really interested to see what that looks like, and would like to see him get a series or two against FA&M.

[Youngsta71701]

Which only proves that the backup didn't need any meaningful snaps prior to that point to be successful.
Backup QBs get their reps in practice.

We talking about practice?! Not a game. Not a game. Not a game. We talking about, practice!

[hogfanny]

I wish for an o-line good enough for any QB deserving of a scholarship to be able to get the job done. The thought that we are defeated if anybody other than AA at QB is depressing.

[bennyl08]

NFL never plays back up- it's weird. youd think theyd want to protect starter from injury but never do in blow outs.

Back to OP- Sounds like Storey is 2nd right now, but concerns me they state they have "corrected" his throwing motion. Im really interested to see what that looks like, and would like to see him get a series or two against FA&M.

Wrong. Anytime the game is comfortably in hand, the backup qb goes in because they don't want to risk unnecessary risk to their most valuable position starter.

Issue is, there is so much parity in the NFL that you can probably count on your fingers the total number of games where that happens. Up by 21 points with 4 minutes left in the game? For the NFL, the game is not comfortably in hand. Up 28-0 with 10 minutes left? Still too high a probability that the other team could make a comeback.

Which again reiterates the concept of many fans having unrealistic expectations for what makes a comfortable lead. Heck, if we had scored first with a td in the 2nd half of the VT game (ignoring the mizzou game), there'd have been fans calling for the backups.

[bennyl08]

I wish for an o-line good enough for any QB deserving of a scholarship to be able to get the job done. The thought that we are defeated if anybody other than AA at QB is depressing.

Lucky for us, thoughts aren't facts and while losing Austin would hurt for us, like losing the starter would hurt any team, we would still be on track to win 7-9 games if Storey or Kelley had to start for us from game one. A bit lower expectations than the 9-3 that we should win with Austin, but certainly not a team defeated.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Here, let's see if they answer me since they are ignoring you.

For all of you "get the backup a series in the first half" folks, name me one successful coach doing that today.

Though there have been instances of a Coach playing two QB's, alternating every couple of series, it is so rare that I can't remember when I last saw that happen and other than that and the case of injury, you'll probably never see a back up enter a game prior to the middle of the third quarter, in cases where that is even appropriate. Most of the time, not until the 4th, if then.

[HamSammich]

"Mop up" time is typically when people get hurt. Id have no problem taking some key starters out if we had a 30 point lead late in the game.

[hogsanity]

"Mop up" time is typically when people get hurt. Id have no problem taking some key starters out if we had a 30 point lead late in the game.

And BB does that, but these guys want the backup to come in during the 1st q, and then come in the 2nd half and throw the ball with the 1st team and NO ONE is doing that.

[HamSammich]

And BB does that, but these guys want the backup to come in during the 1st q, and then come in the 2nd half and throw the ball with the 1st team and NO ONE is doing that.

yeaaaa... 5th year senior... CBB isn't doing that and no one does that.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

AA got nothing but handoff duties while he was 2nd string QB. How'd he do last year.
The obsession some have with the playing time of the 2nd team QB is comical.
It seems to me the reps needed will be found in practice time and not game time.

Funny how no one makes the QB comparison when teaming Nuttster and CBB in their dumbass arguments...

[Fan1958]

Here we go again.  According to Hogville, the third string should have been in by the start of the 2nd quarter again La Tech last year but ended up having to pull that one out on 4th and goal with under 3 to play. It's about more than getting backups playing time in these (supposed) rent-a-wins. It's about getting your main guys working together as a unit, especially on the offensive side.

But as always, Tom Brady could be the starting QB and Hogville would want the backup in the game.

[DoubleReedHawgCaller]

If you are going to get anyone some meaningful snaps in a blow out game it should be fgkicker and the special teams. With the games they've cost us over the last few years they could use all the real game time situations they can get.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Here we go again.  According to Hogville, the third string should have been in by the start of the 2nd quarter again La Tech last year but ended up having to pull that one out on 4th and goal with under 3 to play. It's about more than getting backups playing time in these (supposed) rent-a-wins. It's about getting your main guys working together as a unit, especially on the offensive side.

But as always, Tom Brady could be the starting QB and Hogville would want the backup in the game.

That's not at all what the majority are saying. Good grief.

[Hawgphat]

It seems to me that there is a high-risk downside to not allowing a backup QB - - or TWO backup QBs - -  to accrue some real game-time experience before the onset of a regrettable situation in which a starting QB is carted off the field, - - - and a very green, very battle-untested rookie is sent out onto the game field - perhaps in a very crucial offensive situation -  against a highly-ranked opponent - with that "deer-in-the-headlights" solemn expression showing on his face.

That's simply one man's opinion.