It amazes the amount of energy we put into a impossible situation.

[luke hawg]

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/05/how_much_do_sec_football_coach.html

The probability of the Razorbacks winning anything more than the Cotton or Capital 1 bowl is extremely slim given the rules and landscape of college football. There are some that will complain and suggest I've been brainwashed by Long, Broyles, Nutt, Bielema, national sports media, or anyone else outside the hogville echo chamber. But the reality is some schools get to spend a lot more on facilities, coaches, and recruiting than we do. Those schools also happen to be in higher population areas with more local talent. Talent that can be monopolized to the fullest. We are essentially going to the playground and letting the best player pick his entire team then trying to beat him with the leftovers. If one of our chosen leftovers does a 360 in warm ups, the best team retains the right to pick him up before the game actually starts. We can then replace the cornerstone of our team with someone playing on another court full of less talented players. If a coach can't out perform schools in a better situation consistenetly with yearly upward trajectory, he should be fired.

I get it Bobby Petrino won 10 and 11 games in back to back seasons for the Cotton bowl. Houston Nutt won 10 and 9 with 3 conferences championship appearances. Danny Ford took us to the championship game as well. The differences between those almost great seasons isn't coaching. It's Jarius wright diving on a fumble against A&M, Stoerner breaking his fall with the ball, Horton diving on the ball instead of scooping and scoring, miracle on markham, Jerry Franklin returning a unforced Zac Stacy fumble 95 yards, and Reggie Fish willie mays ing a punt on the 2 yard line.

The only way for us to achieve more than the average is build a solid program with minimal attrition of players not good enough to contribute and wait for a local talent to choose the hogs that plays QB with 1st round talent. The continuing carousel of coaches because one wins 10 with a cotton bowl win and the other wins 9 with a capital one loss is dumb. We aren't playing the same game as Alabama, LSU, Auburn, or Florida.

[SA Hog Fan]

You will likely get crucified for this post, but there is a lot of truth in there

[NuttinItUp]

Every team has advantages and disadvantages.

Take two of the teams that made the College Football Playoffs last year (since that is the goal).

Washington is very far north which hurts spring ball and other things, not known as a traditional powerhouse, and located in an area not known for football talent. Also, traditionally they have had mediocre recruiting. (according to 247: #29 in 2016, #26 in 2015, both lower than the Hogs) However, they also have advantages like being in a large city, etc.

Clemson has traditionally been fairly mediocre at recruiting (the 5 years before Dabo got there, #29, #43, #81, #27, #12). Even under Dabo, they have averaged being in the #10 to #20 range of recruiting most years.  They are in a larger population state than Arkansas, but it is split between multiple FBS schools. Also, their enrollment and alumni base is not as strong as Arkansas. They are near some large population bases though, in Atlanta/Charlotte. (However, it could be argued that those large population bases would be more apt to go to other FBS schools.)

Arkansas has advantages and disadvantages as well, but I truly believe we could get up to the level of schools like Washington or Clemson given our resources and make the CFP some day.

[PonderinHog]

You will likely get crucified for this post, but there is a lot of truth in there

Sure there is.  Nobody said it would be easy to do at Arkansas, but it can be done occasionally.  We're due.  Go Hogs!

[Tyro3]

Sure there is.  Nobody said it would be easy to do at Arkansas, but it can be done occasionally.  We're due.  Go Hogs!

Not sure about we are due analogy, I had an fire insurance company after covering my company for over thirty years and no claims, suddenly cancel our policy, and when I asked why, the rep said your due.

[PonderinHog]

Not sure about we are due analogy, I had an fire insurance company after covering my company for over thirty years and no claims, suddenly cancel our policy, and when I asked why, the rep said your due.

Past due    

[GuvHog]

You will likely get crucified for this post, but there is a lot of truth in there

Agree, there is a lot of truth in that post. The U of A does have some disadvantages but that doesn't mean they shouldn't at least TRY to compete with other schools that have advantages. In 2015 the Hogs dominated an LSU team that has advantages over Arkansas and last year the Hogs dominated a Florida team that has the same advantages. It's not going to happen every year by any means but it will occasionally. There is no reason to simply accept mediocrity and not try to compete to the best of the Hogs ability. A couple of seasons every now and then when the Hogs win 10 or more in regular season play is not too much to ask for nor is winning a minimum of 8 regular season games a year every year (with the exception of a new HC's first year).

[ricepig]

Past due    

Dew.....

[rhames]

It's both. Coaching and talent. Are a lot of those players you mentioned heads and above better than what we have now?


I always find it a little funny when people try to discredit Petrino, not saying that what youre5 doing, by referencing that 2008 class. They talk about if being so loaded like it was full of NFL talent. While good, the class flourished because they fit what Petrino was trying to do.


Bret's actually had some pretty talented kids. The roster is all his now, and was for the most part last year too.


To my point. It's both.

[PonderinHog]

If you can't go through them, go around them.  Then go through them.

[rhames]

I get it Bobby Petrino won 10 and 11 games in back to back seasons for the Cotton bowl. Houston Nutt won 10 and 9 with 3 conferences championship appearances. Danny Ford took us to the championship game as well. The differences between those almost great seasons isn't coaching. It's Jarius wright diving on a fumble against A&M, Stoerner breaking his fall with the ball, Horton diving on the ball instead of scooping and scoring, miracle on markham, Jerry Franklin returning a unforced Zac Stacy fumble 95 yards, and Reggie Fish willie mays ing a punt on the 2 yard line. 

I get what you're trying to say but every team has these moments of barely winning or losing. Alabama. Ohio State. All of them.

[Gonzo]

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/05/how_much_do_sec_football_coach.html

The probability of the Razorbacks winning anything more than the Cotton or Capital 1 bowl is extremely slim given the rules and landscape of college football. There are some that will complain and suggest I've been brainwashed by Long, Broyles, Nutt, Bielema, national sports media, or anyone else outside the hogville echo chamber. But the reality is some schools get to spend a lot more on facilities, coaches, and recruiting than we do. Those schools also happen to be in higher population areas with more local talent. Talent that can be monopolized to the fullest. We are essentially going to the playground and letting the best player pick his entire team then trying to beat him with the leftovers. If one of our chosen leftovers does a 360 in warm ups, the best team retains the right to pick him up before the game actually starts. We can then replace the cornerstone of our team with someone playing on another court full of less talented players. If a coach can't out perform schools in a better situation consistenetly with yearly upward trajectory, he should be fired.

I get it Bobby Petrino won 10 and 11 games in back to back seasons for the Cotton bowl. Houston Nutt won 10 and 9 with 3 conferences championship appearances. Danny Ford took us to the championship game as well. The differences between those almost great seasons isn't coaching. It's Jarius wright diving on a fumble against A&M, Stoerner breaking his fall with the ball, Horton diving on the ball instead of scooping and scoring, miracle on markham, Jerry Franklin returning a unforced Zac Stacy fumble 95 yards, and Reggie Fish willie mays ing a punt on the 2 yard line.

The only way for us to achieve more than the average is build a solid program with minimal attrition of players not good enough to contribute and wait for a local talent to choose the hogs that plays QB with 1st round talent. The continuing carousel of coaches because one wins 10 with a cotton bowl win and the other wins 9 with a capital one loss is dumb. We aren't playing the same game as Alabama, LSU, Auburn, or Florida.

There is a lot of merit in what you say, and most folks know about the challenges the Hogs face. The only note I might take a bit of issue with in your post is the comment about "the continuing carousel of coaches", a notion I've seen raised more than a few times around here.

The Hogs have basically had 3 coaches since 1998, discounting JLS since he was a temp pick. HN, for all his faults, lasted a decade here. BP, if not for getting himself in hot water, would likely still be here. BB is entering his 5th season, and even he is making comments he understands the timeliness and importance of this coming season. I would hardly call that a coaching carousel.


Go Hogs!

[hogman64]

in these days and times of college football it is next to impossible for Arkansas to make the top 4. the most discouraging thing is we basically have to be better than every other team that is in the top 4 in order to make it.  we have to be better than LSU, Auburn, Alabama and Florida to make it. that is basically impossible unless we had the luckiest year in program history.... there are at least two teams every year that make the playoffs that you know there is zero chance for them to be there if they are in the SEC west, so the  road those teams take to get to the final four is closed to  us. So we will never make it as the 3rd or 4th best team and maybe  will never make it as the second best team.  Very discouraging for fans who would like a NC.  not discouraging at all for those getting paid in the Athletic Dept, we can generate tons of revenue being in the SEC, pay high salaries to the administration and its a great deal for them and the fans continue to  get fed hopeful information year after year so that the giving and the hope  continues .   never ending cycle. construction companies, admin officials, coaches, etc benefit greatly the only group living a painful existence is the fans.....

[rhames]

in these days and times of college football it is next to impossible for Arkansas to make the top 4. the most discouraging thing is we basically have to be better than every other team that is in the top 4 in order to make it.  we have to be better than LSU, Auburn, Alabama and Florida to make it. that is basically impossible unless we had the luckiest year in program history.... there are at least two teams every year that make the playoffs that you know there is zero chance for them to be there if they are in the SEC west, so the  road those teams take to get to the final four is closed to  us. So we will never make it as the 3rd or 4th best team and maybe  will never make it as the second best team.  Very discouraging for fans who would like a NC.  not discouraging at all for those getting paid in the Athletic Dept, we can generate tons of revenue being in the SEC, pay high salaries to the administration and its a great deal for them and the fans continue to  get fed hopeful information year after year so that the giving and the hope  continues .   never ending cycle. construction companies, admin officials, coaches, etc benefit greatly the only group living a painful existence is the fans.....

Ehhh. The goal first and foremost is to win the SEC. Most years, bearing some unexpected crazy ass season, the sec champ will get in.


Arkansas isn't going to be in that discussion every year but it shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility every 4 or 5 years to think they can contend for the SEC.

[hogman64]

Ehhh. The goal first and foremost is to win the SEC. Most years, bearing some unexpected crazy ass season, the sec champ will get in.


Arkansas isn't going to be in that discussion every year but it shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility every 4 or 5 years to think they can contend for the SEC.
[exactly,  winning the SEC is the same odds as making the top 4.  we have never won the sec championship in 25 years.
of the 50 teams that have played in the SEC championship game only 3 were ranked outside the top 20.  Two of those three..... Arkansas....  So we managed to get in twice with a lesser team than normally gets in the game, we were beaten badly in both games and didn't score a touchdown in either.  We have had a legitimate chance to win the SEC title game once in  25 years.  So history proves the every 4 or 5 year theory really is not realistic.

hate to be  a Debby Downer but there is tons of truth in the post of the poster who started this thread, we , me included, just like to think every year is  going to be our year which is just perfect for all those making money on the program, but painful for razorback fans year after year.  which yes there are examples of this same thing in programs around the country but being in the SEC West brings it own unique problems to an already almost impossible situation.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

in these days and times of college football it is next to impossible for Arkansas to make the top 4. the most discouraging thing is we basically have to be better than every other team that is in the top 4 in order to make it.  we have to be better than LSU, Auburn, Alabama and Florida to make it. that is basically impossible unless we had the luckiest year in program history.... there are at least two teams every year that make the playoffs that you know there is zero chance for them to be there if they are in the SEC west, so the  road those teams take to get to the final four is closed to  us. So we will never make it as the 3rd or 4th best team and maybe  will never make it as the second best team.  Very discouraging for fans who would like a NC.  not discouraging at all for those getting paid in the Athletic Dept, we can generate tons of revenue being in the SEC, pay high salaries to the administration and its a great deal for them and the fans continue to  get fed hopeful information year after year so that the giving and the hope  continues .   never ending cycle. construction companies, admin officials, coaches, etc benefit greatly the only group living a painful existence is the fans.....

You are right, cancel the SEC season and apply for membership in the Sunbelt. We'll teach all those folks making a killing off of our program a thing or two.

Seriously, what is your point?

[rhames]

It is not impossible for Arkansas to win a NC in football.


It's impossible to expect arkansas to compete every year for one.


So the more I think this through the more it seems like a "we need to leave the SEC because it's too hard" thread.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

It is not impossible for Arkansas to win a NC in football.


It's impossible to expect arkansas to compete every year for one.


So the more I think this through the more it seems like a "we need to leave the SEC because it's too hard" thread.

This is kinda what I have said before and I agree with you.

If all we want (and this has to come from PTB) is win games, then you throw all of your thoughts of running a clean program in the ditch and do whatever is possible to win, which of course makes you a bigger and more prominent target for NCAA investigations in the future. But, you win more games.

If you want to maintain what we have now and who we are now as a respected institution that doesn't break the rules like a lot of teams do, then just get yourself mentally and emotionally ready to accept the fact that over a long, long period of time, on average, we have been and are a 7 to 8 win team each year. And I don't want to hear about the old SWC days because the paradigm in many ways has undergone a major shift since those days.

We can be whomever we choose to be as a football, basketball, baseball, track, etc type of program. It is just a matter of what you want to see your school become and what the school is willing to do.

There isn't any reason that we shouldn't be able to win 10-11 games every 4-5 years and perhaps, if all the chips fall in our favor and others have a bad season, maybe find our way into the SECCG. But the vast majority of the time all we can hope for is an average of 7 to 8 to 9 win seasons with priorities being what they are today.

It's all a matter of what you want to see from Arkansas. Get down in the dirt with some of the schools, or have more pride in doing things the right way so that you can take genuine pride in the times that you do compete for the SECCG.

[rhames]

This is kinda what I have said before and I agree with you.

If all we want (and this has to come from PTB) is win games, then you throw all of your thoughts of running a clean program in the ditch and do whatever is possible to win, which of course makes you a bigger and more prominent target for NCAA investigations in the future. But, you win more games.

If you want to maintain what we have now and who we are now as a respected institution that doesn't break the rules like a lot of teams do, then just get yourself mentally and emotionally ready to accept the fact that over a long, long period of time, on average, we have been and are a 7 to 8 win team each year. And I don't want to hear about the old SWC days because the paradigm in many ways has undergone a major shift since those days.

We can be whomever we choose to be as a football, basketball, baseball, track, etc type of program. It is just a matter of what you want to see your school become and what the school is willing to do.

There isn't any reason that we shouldn't be able to win 10-11 games every 4-5 years and perhaps, if all the chips fall in our favor and others have a bad season, maybe find our way into the SECCG. But the vast majority of the time all we can hope for is an average of 7 to 8 to 9 win seasons with priorities being what they are today.

It's all a matter of what you want to see from Arkansas. Get down in the dirt with some of the schools, or have more pride in doing things the right way so that you can take genuine pride in the times that you do compete for the SECCG.

Agree 100%

[bphi11ips]

A win in the 2018 Cotton Bowl would be sweet.   

[PonderinHog]

So, does winning lead to stability or does stability lead to winning?

[PonderinHog]

I've seen both lead to not having the other so I'll go with what makes me most proud: stability.

Since the horrid Petrino hire, would you have just preferred an 8.5 win average and no drama, even if one of those years was four wins? Over his (knew from jump) shame brought on my alma mater?

I would.

I wasn't asking you.

[PonderinHog]

Incorrect.

You just don't like a reasonable answer.

No, it's more personal than that.

[rljjr]

Dang. Time to shutter the doors and rescind scholarship. I'll resign myself to just mowing lawns on Saturdays from now on.

[hogman64]

You are right, cancel the SEC season and apply for membership in the Sunbelt. We'll teach all those folks making a killing off of our program a thing or two.

Seriously, what is your point?

the point that was made to start the thread, fans/boosters put a lot of time, money, and energy into an impossible situation.
Alabama gets the best of the best , next comes Auburn LSU Florida ........... in order for money and energy and  time to continue from a fan base of  a school like Arkansas  unrealistic hope has to be orchestrated by media and administration  because hope has to stay strong..........people don't give big bucks for 7 wins, they give big bucks  for the hope of an SEC championship and that is pretty  much unrealistic to think it is going to happen.....

you can say cancel the season and all that stuff because it is easy not to want to be realistic about it and you are supporting the popular brand of hopeful  thinking that keeps everyone going  but college football is a stacked deck and Arkansas is not on the right side of that and almost certainly never will be.....

I have season tickets and have had for over 25 years so I support unrealistic goals too, just saying it doesn't hurt for us to   hear the side that really is the way it is......

[MuskogeeHogFan]

the point that was made to start the thread, fans/boosters put a lot of time, money, and energy into an impossible situation.
Alabama gets the best of the best , next comes Auburn LSU Florida ........... in order for money and energy and  time to continue from a fan base of  a school like Arkansas  unrealistic hope has to be orchestrated by media and administration  because hope has to stay strong..........people don't give big bucks for 7 wins, they give big bucks  for the hope of an SEC championship and that is pretty  much unrealistic to think it is going to happen.....

you can say cancel the season and all that stuff because it is easy not to want to be realistic about it and you are supporting the popular brand of hopeful  thinking that keeps everyone going  but college football is a stacked deck and Arkansas is not on the right side of that and almost certainly never will be.....

I have season tickets and have had for over 25 years so I support unrealistic goals too, just saying it doesn't hurt for us to   hear the side that really is the way it is......

I don't think that there are any of us here, who have been here and have been Hog fans for a long time, that don't understand the reality of the situation and the obstacles that we face as a program. If we want to remain in this conference and have the benefit of competing at the highest level of football in the land, we are going to have to continue to plow money into improved facilities and resources because that is the "Arm's War" in the highest levels of competition. And yes, that includes the salaries of coaches and Administrator's and all of the other cost that goes along with being considered a bigger program that compete's in the SEC.

If you can't live with the fact that this is just the way it is and a part of the price that is paid in being a part of the SEC and it brings you some degree of angst, you might want to find a good high school program to support. I'm kinda surprised actually, to be hearing this from someone who has had season tickets for 25 years. You already know the lay of the land, or should, by this time, so it that really doesn't fit with someone who has been a long term season ticket holder. Unless of course, you have just reached your limit of frustration with fewer wins than you expected?

[Hawghiggs]

 The SEC has been a double edge sword for Arkansas. The money has been great. But not being able to play multiple games each year in the state of Texas has hurt badly. Is it time we change that narrative? Should Arkansas join OU and Texas in the Big 12? or do we build another conference with them?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The SEC has been a double edge sword for Arkansas. The money has been great. But not being able to play multiple games each year in the state of Texas has hurt badly. Is it time we change that narrative? Should Arkansas join OU and Texas in the Big 12? or do we build another conference with them?

Oh good grief.

[bphi11ips]

Nah. Hogs fans don't really expect to win a NC. Only four active coaches have even won one. But we have been to 3 SEC Championship games and should have won one. It's not like the situation is hopeless. In the last two years in the SEC we have wins over Tennessee, Auburn, Florida, LSU and Ole Miss. We've beaten Missouri and Mississippi State, too, but those others are what make 7-5 seasons fun. We'll pop another 10-2 at some point soon enough, maybe this year.

[NuttinItUp]

Should Arkansas join OU and Texas in the Big 12? or do we build another conference with them?

Not just no. Hell no.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The SEC has been a double edge sword for Arkansas. The money has been great. But not being able to play multiple games each year in the state of Texas has hurt badly. Is it time we change that narrative? Should Arkansas join OU and Texas in the Big 12? or do we build another conference with them?

Maybe we could get New Mexico to join as well?

[hogman64]

I don't think that there are any of us here, who have been here and have been Hog fans for a long time, that don't understand the reality of the situation and the obstacles that we face as a program. If we want to remain in this conference and have the benefit of competing at the highest level of football in the land, we are going to have to continue to plow money into improved facilities and resources because that is the "Arm's War" in the highest levels of competition. And yes, that includes the salaries of coaches and Administrator's and all of the other cost that goes along with being considered a bigger program that compete's in the SEC.

If you can't live with the fact that this is just the way it is and a part of the price that is paid in being a part of the SEC and it brings you some degree of angst, you might want to find a good high school program to support. I'm kinda surprised actually, to be hearing this from someone who has had season tickets for 25 years. You already know the lay of the land, or should, by this time, so it that really doesn't fit with someone who has been a long term season ticket holder. Unless of course, you have just reached your limit of frustration with fewer wins than you expected?

The last two games  have something to do with the frustration level, those games were in a league of their own as far as being unacceptable.  but more and more the realism of talent level differences among teams in the SEC  is a  blow to my hopes  year after year......I don't think our coaches are worse at recruiting than the coaches at the top SEC football schools, they just cant overcome various factors that make it easier for those schools to get the talent.......

[HouSwine]

"Impossible" covers too much ground.
Maybe "extra-difficult".
So what's new about that?

[rhames]

The last two games  have something to do with the frustration level, those games were in a league of their own as far as being unacceptable.  but more and more the realism of talent level differences among teams in the SEC  is a  blow to my hopes  year after year......I don't think our coaches are worse at recruiting than the coaches at the top SEC football schools, they just cant overcome various factors that make it easier for those schools to get the talent.......

The 2 loses to end the year had nothing to do with talent.

[PonderinHog]

Nah. Hogs fans don't really expect to win a NC. Only four active coaches have even won one. But we have been to 3 SEC Championship games and should have won one. It's not like the situation is hopeless. In the last two years in the SEC we have wins over Tennessee, Auburn, Florida, LSU and Ole Miss. We've beaten Missouri and Mississippi State, too, but those others are what make 7-5 seasons fun. We'll pop another 10-2 at some point soon enough, maybe this year.

Which just leaves the damn elephant in the room...

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The last two games  have something to do with the frustration level, those games were in a league of their own as far as being unacceptable.  but more and more the realism of talent level differences among teams in the SEC  is a  blow to my hopes  year after year......I don't think our coaches are worse at recruiting than the coaches at the top SEC football schools, they just cant overcome various factors that make it easier for those schools to get the talent.......

You aren't any different than us with regard to the last two games. Of course, as negative as those were, we have been given time to find perspective. My perspective...unacceptable, but given some months I have a better understanding of why those things occurred. Still not a positive thought process, but the things that caused that are correctable and in most cases, have been corrected.

Arkansas has always been either an overachiever or an underachiever. That probably isn't going to change. Would you be upset if we had 9, 10 and 10 wins the last three seasons? I imagine that your attitude would be significantly different, as would the attitude of many on here. But having achieved 10 wins the last 2 seasons, there would be some grinching about not being able to win the big game and get beyond 10 wins. Most everyone always want more than what they have been given.

I've seen Arkansas beat teams that had greater levels of talent and I have seen them lose games that they should have won, despite the other team having more talent. That is just who we are. But it isn't going to happen every season.

[bphi11ips]

Which just leaves the damn elephant in the room...

The elephant is one big SOB ...

[PonderinHog]

The elephant is one big SOB ...

Go around him!  Damn, he's fast too!   

[bphi11ips]

Go around him!  Damn, he's fast too!   

Had a point blank shot in 2014 but squeezed the trigger too hard.

[Tyro3]

Past due    

As it turned out, I found a company that gave me the same coverage for half of what I was paying ( shame on me for not checking sooner) still no claims.

[PonderinHog]

As it turned out, I found a company that gave me the same coverage for half of what I was paying ( shame on me for not checking sooner) still no claims.

Well, I was speaking of the Razorbacks, but good for you!   

[tophawg19]

To put it in perspective , with those last two games . CRAP HAPPENS . Get those 2 2nd half turnovers back and we have a chance to beat V_Tech . We gave it away and  they were good enough to take it. But it happens to everybody . Ask Florida about the game with us , Ask Bama '' YES BAMA"" about blowing a N/C and a couple losses to ole miss that shouldn't have happened . Sometimes there is no explaining what happens on the field . Last season MSU lost to South Alabama and Kentucky before knocking off a highly ranked Aggies team. Sometimes a team causes match up problems , other times nothing you do goes right .

[HamSammich]

That's the spirit! Going to buy my Ohio state and Bama gear now.... because hell I give up. Thanks for being so smart op.

[ChitownHawg]

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/05/how_much_do_sec_football_coach.html

The probability of the Razorbacks winning anything more than the Cotton or Capital 1 bowl is extremely slim given the rules and landscape of college football. There are some that will complain and suggest I've been brainwashed by Long, Broyles, Nutt, Bielema, national sports media, or anyone else outside the hogville echo chamber. But the reality is some schools get to spend a lot more on facilities, coaches, and recruiting than we do. Those schools also happen to be in higher population areas with more local talent. Talent that can be monopolized to the fullest. We are essentially going to the playground and letting the best player pick his entire team then trying to beat him with the leftovers. If one of our chosen leftovers does a 360 in warm ups, the best team retains the right to pick him up before the game actually starts. We can then replace the cornerstone of our team with someone playing on another court full of less talented players. If a coach can't out perform schools in a better situation consistenetly with yearly upward trajectory, he should be fired.

I get it Bobby Petrino won 10 and 11 games in back to back seasons for the Cotton bowl. Houston Nutt won 10 and 9 with 3 conferences championship appearances. Danny Ford took us to the championship game as well. The differences between those almost great seasons isn't coaching. It's Jarius wright diving on a fumble against A&M, Stoerner breaking his fall with the ball, Horton diving on the ball instead of scooping and scoring, miracle on markham, Jerry Franklin returning a unforced Zac Stacy fumble 95 yards, and Reggie Fish willie mays ing a punt on the 2 yard line.

The only way for us to achieve more than the average is build a solid program with minimal attrition of players not good enough to contribute and wait for a local talent to choose the hogs that plays QB with 1st round talent. The continuing carousel of coaches because one wins 10 with a cotton bowl win and the other wins 9 with a capital one loss is dumb. We aren't playing the same game as Alabama, LSU, Auburn, or Florida.

I'm with ya on this.

[Hawghiggs]

Maybe we could get New Mexico to join as well?

This is for you Muskogee.

( New Southwest Conference )

1, Arkansas
2, Baylor
3, Houston
4, New Mexico
5, Oklahoma
6, Oklahoma State
7, SMU
8, TCU
9, Texas
10, Texas Tech

We would be very competitive is this conference.

[HogBreath]

To put it in perspective , with those last two games . CRAP HAPPENS . Get those 2 2nd half turnovers back and we have a chance to beat V_Tech . We gave it away and  they were good enough to take it. But it happens to everybody . Ask Florida about the game with us , Ask Bama '' YES BAMA"" about blowing a N/C and a couple losses to ole miss that shouldn't have happened . Sometimes there is no explaining what happens on the field . Last season MSU lost to South Alabama and Kentucky before knocking off a highly ranked Aggies team. Sometimes a team causes match up problems , other times nothing you do goes right .

Exactly, tough game to figure at times.  I've seen games end up with one sided scores, when in reality, the teams were pretty even other than maybe a few plays.  So many variables go in to the outcome.  Lots of games are over before the kickoff.

[HiggiePiggy]

This is for you Muskogee.

( New Southwest Conference )

1, Arkansas
2, Baylor
3, Houston
4, New Mexico
5, Oklahoma
6, Oklahoma State
7, SMU
8, TCU
9, Texas
10, Texas Tech

We would be very competitive is this conference.

We would probably be 3rd or 4th most years in that line up.

[Cinco de Hogo]

I'm 60 years old, a born and breed Hog fan and I have never in my life "expected" Arkansas to win a NC.  That is not who we are and my never be, so why was I a fan, why have I remained s fan?  Good coaches, bad coaches, good administration, bad administration, it has nothing to do with expectation, nothing to do with faith.  I was born an American I'll die an American, so it is with my fan hood.  Mostly all I want each year is fight and spirit.  I want The Razorback fighting spirit to win the games we are supposed to win and win most of the equal games and then I love a surprise win each year.  However it's seems my excitement level  diminishes as the years pass.  Maybe it's getting old, maybe it's apathy setting in as we continually underperform what "could be".  What I truly believe it is is the realization that my fanhood is simply being played for a fool...and yet here I am!

Not much different than politics in the end is it?

[luke hawg]

I get what you're trying to say but every team has these moments of barely winning or losing. Alabama. Ohio State. All of them.

Yes but when the ball bounces OSU and Bama's way they win championships while we win the cotton bowl. This is really the point of the thread. Everyone has swings and ours put us somewhere between 7-10 wins which doesn't win any hardware. The misconception is that I'm down on our program. I've actually enjoyed the last 3 years. We are a great athletic program. We compete in multiple sports and I take pride in all our sports. It's how we compete in this conference. We aren't going to dominate any of the big three sports but we are competitive in all of them. Eventually our hogs will breakthrough again if we keep running a strong athletic program.

[bphi11ips]

We would probably be 3rd or 4th most years in that line up.

Probably, but we'd win it now and then.

What's with all the whining around here?  This new SWC angle puts things in a bit of perspective.  Replace New Mexico with A&M, throw out OU and OSU, and you basically have the SWC.  That wouldn't be a bad conference today.  Contrary to the revisionists, it never was.

Arkansas won or tied for the SWC championship 13 times in 75 years.  Most of those years there were 7 or 8 teams or less.  The Hogs have won or tied for first in the SEC West 4 times in 25 years.  There were 6 teams in the West during those years, now there are 7.  Winning the SEC West is harder than it was to win the SWC, but we've done it almost as often over time as we did the SWC. 

Arkansas is a great program with a 75,000 seat stadium and incredible facilities.  We field a good team almost every year.  We win a few big games almost every year.  We win some sort of title every 6 hears or so.  That's the way it's been for 100 years and probably the way it will be for the forseeable future.  Might as well enjoy it.