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  • #601 by Youngsta71701 on 26 Jul 2017
  • I am not expecting him to do anything he did not say he was going to do when he took the job, but he has done precious little of any of that ( and yes I realize much of it was rah rah for the fans and coach speak ). If he was brought in to maybe make the ncaat, be around the bubble, great, awesome. But the fans who support him no end need to quit talking about final 4's, cause that isnt likely to happen with him as HC.

    My problem is not, nor has it ever been with Mike. My problem is with the fact that he can not be criticized at all without the person doing the criticism being labeled as a hater or racist. Last year, when they got beat at home by Vandy and at Mizzu, and blown out at OSU, I don't care what color the coach was, the team was playing horribly and Mike was stubbornly continuing to do the same things. The criticism was valid and warranted.  The issue I have is that, if the coach were anyone else, the same people defending Mike would be out with pitchforks.

    Also, and this has bugged me for a decade, When people were critical of Heat, and when he was fired, no one screamed racism then...why not?
    If I'm not mistaken a lot of Mike supporters criticized him during that time as well. Myself included. The difference is we chose to keep believing with the idea that Mike is a smart enough guy that would make the necessary changes that needed to be made to get this thing back on the right track. And I believe he did that. But of course you would say he didn't have anything to do with that. It's was all the players. Right?
  • #602 by zebradynasty on 26 Jul 2017
  • I am not expecting him to do anything he did not say he was going to do when he took the job, but he has done precious little of any of that ( and yes I realize much of it was rah rah for the fans and coach speak ). If he was brought in to maybe make the ncaat, be around the bubble, great, awesome. But the fans who support him no end need to quit talking about final 4's, cause that isnt likely to happen with him as HC.

    My problem is not, nor has it ever been with Mike. My problem is with the fact that he can not be criticized at all without the person doing the criticism being labeled as a hater or racist. Last year, when they got beat at home by Vandy and at Mizzu, and blown out at OSU, I don't care what color the coach was, the team was playing horribly and Mike was stubbornly continuing to do the same things. The criticism was valid and warranted.  The issue I have is that, if the coach were anyone else, the same people defending Mike would be out with pitchforks.

    Also, and this has bugged me for a decade, When people were critical of Heat, and when he was fired, no one screamed racism then...why not?

    He was criticized for the slump and justifiably so. However, what you called stubbornness most called growing pains in trying to get JUCO players adjusted to D1. To be fair to Mike what he did was pretty impressive. I can't recall any coach recently bringing in that many JUCOs and veteran players and win 26 games. They played through the slump and by the time the NCAAT came they were playing like a potential sweet-16 team. So that cancels out.

    The difference between MA and Heath...about 20 wins! 54% over 5 years will get you fired when added in with the APR. I will say this him getting fired the same year he went to the NCAAT was surprising. But in his 5 years I never fielded a team that one could say watch out for or up and coming.
  • #603 by hogsanity on 26 Jul 2017
  • Look what Coach K did his first 3 years at Duke. He turned out to be a pretty good coach didn't he? Point being sometimes you just have to be patient and see what happens. And I know patience in todays world is a whole lot shorter than it used to be.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Krzyzewski

    In his 1st 6 seasons at Duke he took them to the NIt, missed post season, missed post season, ncaat rnd of 32, ncaat rnd of 32, and in his 6th season they went to the finals of the ncaat. Then in years 7-12 they went sweet 16, final 4, final 4, runner up, ncaat champs, ncaat champs. Are you really going to try to compare Mike to Coach K?
  • #604 by Youngsta71701 on 26 Jul 2017
  • In his 1st 6 seasons at Duke he took them to the NIt, missed post season, missed post season, ncaat rnd of 32, ncaat rnd of 32, and in his 6th season they went to the finals of the ncaat. Then in years 7-12 they went sweet 16, final 4, final 4, runner up, ncaat champs, ncaat champs. Are you really going to try to compare Mike to Coach K?
    Ok, and with Mike we went to the NIT in year 3, NCAA round of 32 in year 4, missed the postseason in year 5, and NCAA round of 32 yet again in year 6. Not too shabby if you ask me. One blip on the radar since he's gotten all of HIS players in the system. And believe me there are certain players that are better off in certain systems. Doesn't matter if they're 5* or a no*.
  • #605 by 311Hog on 26 Jul 2017
  • We have gotten exactly what I expected we would get when he was hired. What I can't believe, in a sport where we have had ALOT of past success, that so many are fine with having what we have. NCAAT once every 3 seasons. And the ONLY reason they accept that is because they get to see Mike on the sideline.

    we are starting to repeat ourselves now so i will probably move on but basically.

    1. No one is fine with not winning it all, but there can be only 1 winner.
    2. our past success was in a different era, this is a new world with new challenges. we tainted our great history in how the firing of Nolan went down.
    3.  There is nothing that can be done about the past, but that does not mean that we don't go on a run of 15 straight NCAA's you have no one has any idea what will happen next year or any year after that.
    4.  I have not met these people who idolize Mike to such a degree, but i am sure they exist just like the Nutt huggers exist, Petrinites, etc. there is definitely a particular type of human that seems to idol worship above all else you see it everyday.
    5. The only thing i have accepted is that i prefer a clean program as oppose to a dirty one regardless of the end result.  While i believe that these two things are not mutually exclusive, i am observant enough to know that running a clean program and winning it all is a very difficult thing to do, made even harder by everything in our world today.  Twitter, handlers, hero ball, 1 and dones, devaluing of higher education, etc. etc....
  • #606 by rwspear on 26 Jul 2017
  • We have gotten exactly what I expected we would get when he was hired. What I can't believe, in a sport where we have had ALOT of past success, that so many are fine with having what we have. NCAAT once every 3 seasons. And the ONLY reason they accept that is because they get to see Mike on the sideline.

    weve been 2 of the last 3 seasons. what team are you watching
  • #607 by hogsanity on 26 Jul 2017
  • weve been 2 of the last 3 seasons. what team are you watching

    The one that's been two of the last 6.
  • #608 by zebradynasty on 26 Jul 2017
  • The one that's been two of the last 6.

    You really can't see that your critique is over the top can you? Did you have the same expectations for Heath or Pelphrey? I know Pel went to the NCCAT his first year so I guess that makes him a better coach than Mike, Stan, Sutton or Nolan. How many top 100-200 player in their right mind would have signed with MA his first 2 years here! The program and it's reputation were in shambles. He had to take some chances and they didn't pan out and we ended up paying the price in 2015. Yes we are still losing big time recruits to powerhouse programs (Perry the exception) but recruiting has gotten better. Why not just let it go? The program is trending up for the last three years we've won more games than anyone in the SEC other than Kentucky. Focusing on something that shoulda, coulda happen 3-4 years ago is the definition of hatin.
  • #609 by Youngsta71701 on 26 Jul 2017
  • You really can't see that your critique is over the top can you? Did you have the same expectations for Heath or Pelphrey? I know Pel went to the NCCAT his first year so I guess that makes him a better coach than Mike, Stan, Sutton or Nolan. How many top 100-200 player in their right mind would have signed with MA his first 2 years here! The program and it's reputation were in shambles. He had to take some chances and they didn't pan out and we ended up paying the price in 2015. Yes we are still losing big time recruits to powerhouse programs (Perry the exception) but recruiting has gotten better. Why not just let it go? The program is trending up for the last three years we've won more games than anyone in the SEC other than Kentucky. Focusing on something that shoulda, coulda happen 3-4 years ago is the definition of hatin.
    He dwells in the past just to show his dislike for CMA. Funny he doesn't hold his football coach to the same gaudy standards. Huh... :-\
  • #610 by hogsanity on 26 Jul 2017
  • You really can't see that your critique is over the top can you? Did you have the same expectations for Heath or Pelphrey? I know Pel went to the NCCAT his first year so I guess that makes him a better coach than Mike, Stan, Sutton or Nolan. How many top 100-200 player in their right mind would have signed with MA his first 2 years here! The program and it's reputation were in shambles. He had to take some chances and they didn't pan out and we ended up paying the price in 2015. Yes we are still losing big time recruits to powerhouse programs (Perry the exception) but recruiting has gotten better. Why not just let it go? The program is trending up for the last three years we've won more games than anyone in the SEC other than Kentucky. Focusing on something that shoulda, coulda happen 3-4 years ago is the definition of hatin.

     didn't Mike have one of the highest rated classes the hogs have ever had in his 1st signing class?
  • #611 by hogsanity on 26 Jul 2017
  • He dwells in the past just to show his dislike for CMA. Funny he doesn't hold his football coach to the same gaudy standards. Huh... :-\

    nor do Mike's pr crew give BB the leeway they give Mike even though it is about 10 times as hard to build a football program where you need dozens of players to have proper depth, and the sec in football is 10 times the league it is in basketball.
  • #612 by zebradynasty on 26 Jul 2017
  • didn't Mike have one of the highest rated classes the hogs have ever had in his 1st signing class?

    His first year he basically held serve with what was already committed. The second year he signed 5 none was ranked higher than 3 star Coty Clarke probably was the best in the class coming in but Qualls developed into the best player overall. Bell developed into a good player also. Solid class but no not world beaters.
  • #613 by Youngsta71701 on 27 Jul 2017
  • didn't Mike have one of the highest rated classes the hogs have ever had in his 1st signing class?
    Those weren't his players he just honored their commitments because they are already on board. Two of those players for sure didn't fit his philosophy. Believe it or not fit matters.
  • #614 by Youngsta71701 on 27 Jul 2017
  • nor do Mike's pr crew give BB the leeway they give Mike even though it is about 10 times as hard to build a football program where you need dozens of players to have proper depth, and the sec in football is 10 times the league it is in basketball.
    If you were to check out plenty of MMQ post of mines you would see that me personally have just as much patience with Beilema than I do with Anderson. Maybe more. Because I understand both of their situations currently and both of the situations when they took over. Personally I like them both and believe both of them will be ok with enough time. Can't speak for the rest. And I do criticize the both of them when I think they deserve it. You know you can criticize a coach without wanting them gone or without losing faith in them. You do know that right?
  • #615 by hogsanity on 27 Jul 2017
  • You know you can criticize a coach without wanting them gone or without losing faith in them. You do know that right?


    Except in Jump ball, here any criticism means you hate the coach, are a racist, and have unrealistic expectations.

    Those weren't his players he just honored their commitments because they are already on board. Two of those players for sure didn't fit his philosophy. Believe it or not fit matters.


    Fit especially matters when the coach refuses to change what e does until times are extremely desperate.

    He kept that class because all the players were highly rated, and most were in staters. Matter of fact, that class was so highly rated it was the only reason there was trepidation about letting Pelphrey go, fear of losing the class at a time when putting together a whole new class would have been a disaster.
  • #616 by Swinesong1 on 27 Jul 2017
  • Can this get locked please?  Reggie Perry is gone and this thread is just another example of the same posters spewing the same tiresome nonsense. 
  • #617 by hogsanity on 27 Jul 2017
  • Can this get locked please?  Reggie Perry is gone and this thread is just another example of the same posters spewing the same tiresome nonsense. 


    there is always the option of not clicking on the thread.
  • #618 by Swinesong1 on 27 Jul 2017

  • there is always the option of not clicking on the thread.
    . Why are you here?  Better yet, why are you allowed to be here?  There's criticism and there's obsession.  You [CENSORED] and whined throughout the first tourney season and have not stopped. 
  • #619 by zebradynasty on 27 Jul 2017
  • Except in Jump ball, here any criticism means you hate the coach, are a racist, and have unrealistic expectations.

    Fit especially matters when the coach refuses to change what e does until times are extremely desperate.

    He kept that class because all the players were highly rated, and most were in staters. Matter of fact, that class was so highly rated it was the only reason there was trepidation about letting Pelphrey go, fear of losing the class at a time when putting together a whole new class would have been a disaster.

    More evidence that your criticism is motivated by personal issues. What coach takes over a new team and then revokes scholarships of the incoming class? Yes the class was solid but not for his style of play. The class he inherited was pretty solid. Headlined by B.J Young and Ky Madden. In the end Abron, Mickleson, and Ross never panned out. Young left the program after getting some terrible advice (and lack of discipline). So that class ended up not being much help.

    Most good coaches don't change their basic philosophy no matter what players want. Sutton didn't and neither did Nolan. That's not putting MA on the same level as those guys it's just a basic quality of good coaching.
  • #620 by hogsanity on 27 Jul 2017
  • More evidence that your criticism is motivated by personal issues. What coach takes over a new team and then revokes scholarships of the incoming class? Yes the class was solid but not for his style of play. The class he inherited was pretty solid. Headlined by B.J Young and Ky Madden. In the end Abron, Mickleson, and Ross never panned out. Young left the program after getting some terrible advice (and lack of discipline). So that class ended up not being much help.

    Most good coaches don't change their basic philosophy no matter what players want. Sutton didn't and neither did Nolan. That's not putting MA on the same level as those guys it's just a basic quality of good coaching.

    I did not say he should have not taken them, but the ncaa has been pretty good about letting basketball players out of loi's when there is a coaching change, so he had to re-recruit them, which he did instead of trying to find his type of players. Go back, if it is possible, and look at the posts here about that class and about people on pins a needles hoping Mike could hold that class together.

    And I did not say change what you do because the players want you to change. I am talking about changing because of what they do best. Last years team was much more suited to playing zone on D, but it took 4 terrible losses before Mike, in a desperate move trailing at half time at LSU FINALLY all but gave up on the pressure/trap/give up dunks and layups and get in foul trouble "style" and went to a zone which saved the season and possibly his job. 
  • #621 by Youngsta71701 on 27 Jul 2017
  • More evidence that your criticism is motivated by personal issues. What coach takes over a new team and then revokes scholarships of the incoming class? Yes the class was solid but not for his style of play. The class he inherited was pretty solid. Headlined by B.J Young and Ky Madden. In the end Abron, Mickleson, and Ross never panned out. Young left the program after getting some terrible advice (and lack of discipline). So that class ended up not being much help.

    Most good coaches don't change their basic philosophy no matter what players want. Sutton didn't and neither did Nolan. That's not putting MA on the same level as those guys it's just a basic quality of good coaching.
    Exactly, every coach has their preferred style of play and won't change it unless they have to. Believe it or not all the great coaches are the same way. He must think a zebra changes their stripes?
  • #622 by zebradynasty on 27 Jul 2017
  • I did not say he should have not taken them, but the ncaa has been pretty good about letting basketball players out of loi's when there is a coaching change, so he had to re-recruit them, which he did instead of trying to find his type of players. Go back, if it is possible, and look at the posts here about that class and about people on pins a needles hoping Mike could hold that class together.

    And I did not say change what you do because the players want you to change. I am talking about changing because of what they do best. Last years team was much more suited to playing zone on D, but it took 4 terrible losses before Mike, in a desperate move trailing at half time at LSU FINALLY all but gave up on the pressure/trap/give up dunks and layups and get in foul trouble "style" and went to a zone which saved the season and possibly his job.

    Your timeline is way off. Mike didn't take the job until spring March or April 2011. How many quality players would have been available at that point. Most likely players with high academic risk and UA was still recovering from the APR disaster.

    So you've torpedoed the entire season 36 games over 4 games... ??? But somehow you want us to believe you're being reasonable!
  • #623 by HognitiveDissonance on 27 Jul 2017
  • Well i for one have never crowned Mike with anything other than he seems like a good man and has had by most measures good to great success a coach in his career.  He is not a HOF'r but a good coach at this point.

    In basketball would it be fair to say we over achieved during that 30 year run and are now suffering the yang of that 30 years of success with almost 30 years of almost no success? sure does look like the scales evening out to me.  Nothing about our state screams amazing in terms of athletic talent production, that is a numbers game and in that we lose always.  Outliers will always appear, but are often evened back out over time that is the point i was trying to make.  Maybe we are coming into a new 30 year run of success it all goes in cycles.
    Here's the simple truth:

    For 30 years, we had two truly GREAT coaches.

    Since then, we haven't.

    I thought for a long time that we deserved it(the fans, the program, the facilities). It was 'us', the Razorback program that was going to be successful always.

    But it's never worked like that, and never will. The programs who win a lot have the best coaches. It's quite simple, yet people make it complicated. And we haven't had that caliber of coach since those two guys left.
  • #624 by hogsanity on 27 Jul 2017

  • For 30 years, we had two truly GREAT coaches.

    Since then, we haven't.



    Exactly
  • #625 by HognitiveDissonance on 27 Jul 2017
  • Exactly
    And it would be now, let's see, 1974-2017 = 43 years.
    We would be working on a run of Sutton/Richardson/Self if John White would have gotten out of the way and we hired the best available coach in 2002, which was Bill Self, who wanted the job at the time, but wasn't going to come and publicly interview on campus as White insisted everyone do(That's not how big-time coaching hires work, John)
    Every time I type that I sigh deeply. Very painful.
  • #626 by LR_Matt on 11 Aug 2017
  • Those weren't his players he just honored their commitments because they are already on board. Two of those players for sure didn't fit his philosophy. Believe it or not fit matters.

    "Fit", "system" and "his players" are code worlds for "he can't coach those kids", FYI.

    What's with all the clean program tak also, did y'all miss the whole counterfeit scandals LOL. Selective memory because we made the NCAAT.... I get it.
  • #627 by texas tush hog on 11 Aug 2017
  • Reggie who?
  • #628 by Youngsta71701 on 12 Aug 2017
  • "Fit", "system" and "his players" are code worlds for "he can't coach those kids", FYI.

    What's with all the clean program tak also, did y'all miss the whole counterfeit scandals LOL. Selective memory because we made the NCAAT.... I get it.
    So coach Anderson told Beard and Williams to spend counterfeit money? Hmm, interesting. I had know idea he was the ring leader of that. New facts come out everyday.
  • #629 by JayBell on 12 Aug 2017
  • What's with all the clean program tak also, did y'all miss the whole counterfeit scandals LOL. Selective memory because we made the NCAAT.... I get it.

    Good luck finding a tougher critic of Anderson on Hogville than me, but this is ludicrous.  The reason you instantly point to the counterfeit incident is because it is such an outlier under Anderson.

    And, unlike countless other programs, the players suffered real consequences.  They were all suspended and one was dismissed.

    So, yes, as a fan and an alum, I like that Anderson runs a clean program that emphasizes academics as team members earn good grades and receive their degrees.
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