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Author Topic: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.  (Read 6821 times)

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GoHogs1091

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #50 on: May 31, 2017, 09:12:09 pm »

An argument could be made that golf has become more important than basketball or football in the state.  The following shows how important is golf in Arkansas.

Hardscrabble Country Club   Probably the best golf course in the nation between Tulsa, Oklahoma and Augusta, Georgia.  Has hosted several key golf tournaments (Trans-Mississippi Amateur Championships and Nike Tour/Nationwide Tour/Web.com Tour).

Texarkana Country Club   The course where the legendary Byron Nelson would always practice prior to The Masters Tournament in Georgia.

Pinnacle Country Club   Hosts a LPGA event.  That event brings in a ton of money to the state.  Also, the event brings a lot of notoriety to the state because it gets televised on a worldwide channel.  It is the only high-level professional sporting event in the state (The Naturals and The Travelers are not high-level professional sport).

The Alotian   An overrated novelty that does draw attention to the state.  It hosted a Western Amateur Championship a few years ago, and the young Amateur participants carved it up   

The Blessings   Will host a NCAA Championship in the future.  Hopefully, long overdue changes will make it more playable.

Then, there are the courses at Bella Vista and Hot Springs Village.  These courses are "retirement courses" that cater to retirees.  These courses bring in money to the state because retirees move here in order to have choices of several courses at one location where the housing is located.
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TheRazorback500

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #51 on: May 31, 2017, 10:29:11 pm »

We seem to have a better chance of being successful in basketball in the next 3 or 4 years than in football because of the better players Anderson is bringing in. If somehow CBB could put together a good season this fall and upgrade recruiting in 2018, things could change.
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NuttinItUp

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #52 on: May 31, 2017, 10:30:40 pm »

Baseball is looking pretty good right now, too.
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sickboy

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #53 on: May 31, 2017, 10:42:17 pm »

An argument could be made that golf has become more important than basketball or football in the state.  The following shows how important is golf in Arkansas.

Hardscrabble Country Club   Probably the best golf course in the nation between Tulsa, Oklahoma and Augusta, Georgia.  Has hosted several key golf tournaments (Trans-Mississippi Amateur Championships and Nike Tour/Nationwide Tour/Web.com Tour).

Texarkana Country Club   The course where the legendary Byron Nelson would always practice prior to The Masters Tournament in Georgia.

Pinnacle Country Club   Hosts a LPGA event.  That event brings in a ton of money to the state.  Also, the event brings a lot of notoriety to the state because it gets televised on a worldwide channel.  It is the only high-level professional sporting event in the state (The Naturals and The Travelers are not high-level professional sport).

The Alotian   An overrated novelty that does draw attention to the state.  It hosted a Western Amateur Championship a few years ago, and the young Amateur participants carved it up   

The Blessings   Will host a NCAA Championship in the future.  Hopefully, long overdue changes will make it more playable.

Then, there are the courses at Bella Vista and Hot Springs Village.  These courses are "retirement courses" that cater to retirees.  These courses bring in money to the state because retirees move here in order to have choices of several courses at one location where the housing is located.

What? I love golf as much as the next guy, but Arkansas isn't a golf state. It's probably not even one of the top 25 golf states in the country.
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sevenof400

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #54 on: May 31, 2017, 11:11:52 pm »

What? I love golf as much as the next guy, but Arkansas isn't a golf state. It's probably not even one of the top 25 golf states in the country.

Probably not even Top 50......   >:(
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LZH

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #55 on: June 01, 2017, 04:41:47 am »

Probably not even Top 50......   >:(

Top 60 though.....
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GuvHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #56 on: June 01, 2017, 08:56:15 am »

To get LR schools up to par private money is going to have to step up and help out.  Besides the school districts being underfunded and poorly run the socio-economic demographics do not lend themselves to parents being able to give time and money to help elevate the programs.

Yes the NWA schools are better funded but they also have a much higher level of parent involvement and a lot of private booster money supporting the programs.

It would be great from a competitive standpoint if the LR schools could produce more talent, but more importantly it's better for the kids to have that opportunity.  The number of roster spots in Bball is so low compared to FB and so many kids could use the structure, mentoring, physical activity, social support, sense of purpose, value, and camaraderie that FB would provide.

If you want to see where the football money in the Little Rock area is going just check out the football facilities at PA, CAC, and LRCA. That'll tell you why football in the LRSD is in decline.

The PCSSD schools even have much better football facilities than the LRSD does.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #57 on: June 01, 2017, 09:25:42 am »

The state of Football in Little Rock is past sad. The Late Gene Cox who was AD at J.A.Fair said they had to beg borrow and steal to have enough equipment. That the coaching staff picked up and took home players so they could field a team.
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2017, 09:36:47 am »

Even though I know the football fanbase in this state is enormous, I've always considered Arkansas a basketball state.  For the first half of my life I grew up in a small town that did not have a high school football team and basketball was life.

Same here, basketball is all I played year round...until I hit 40 and couldn't find anyone to play with anymore.

However, I like watching football more than basketball or any other sport while overall the disappointment called Razorback athletics has taken a heavy toll on the time I allot to sports anymore.
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LZH

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #59 on: June 01, 2017, 09:44:36 am »

I hit 40 and couldn't find anyone to play with anymore.

I've had that problem for a while now, too.....
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hawgon

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2017, 09:48:04 am »

Sports require the involvement of parents, particularly dads.  Oh, of course, there are exceptions and feel good stories, but the general truth remains.  The problem with Little Rock is pretty much a problem around the country in innner cities.  The family unit is so lacking as to be nonexistent.  You won't get many athletes out of that chaos.

And if you are getting more basketball players now, it is no coincidence as that basketball is the one sport where actual skills can be developed by a kid on his own.  All you need is a $30 ball, a goal, and a few friends.
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draftkings33

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2017, 10:01:23 am »

The state of Football in Little Rock is past sad. The Late Gene Cox who was AD at J.A.Fair said they had to beg borrow and steal to have enough equipment. That the coaching staff picked up and took home players so they could field a team.
coaches take home players and feed them
All over the state
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draftkings33

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2017, 10:02:18 am »

Sports require the involvement of parents, particularly dads.  Oh, of course, there are exceptions and feel good stories, but the general truth remains.  The problem with Little Rock is pretty much a problem around the country in innner cities.  The family unit is so lacking as to be nonexistent.  You won't get many athletes out of that chaos.

And if you are getting more basketball players now, it is no coincidence as that basketball is the one sport where actual skills can be developed by a kid on his own.  All you need is a $30 ball, a goal, and a few friends.
you nailed it!
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2017, 10:13:18 am »

I've had that problem for a while now, too.....

Yea that was 20 years ago and now I'm too old to try.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2017, 10:16:02 am »

People seem to be confusing the fact that in small towns with no football that basketball is the big things there with the fact that overall football, at all levels, is far more popular as a whole.

Sure, you go to Mulberry and basketball is the thing because they do not have football, but in Crawford county as a whole football is king. 
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hawgon

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2017, 10:21:53 am »

If you want to make football better in Arkansas and get more athletes into it, they need to do 8 man football.
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sevenof400

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2017, 10:25:57 am »

I've had that problem for a while now, too.....

Did we just take a turn into the tavern?     8)
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2017, 10:26:45 am »

If you want to make football better in Arkansas and get more athletes into it, they need to do 8 man football.

I agree they need 8 man football, but I dont think it would make football in AR HS, as a whole, better. What it would do would be let some of these schools that try to have football actually make it through a season. Every year some teams try to play fielding only 12 or 13 kids and they end up forfeiting a bunch of games, which is unfair to their opponents. I worked a scrimmage last year and one team only had 12 players. We knew then they would not make it through the season. They played something like 2 games, then forfeited the remainder.
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hawgon

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2017, 10:47:14 am »

I agree they need 8 man football, but I dont think it would make football in AR HS, as a whole, better. What it would do would be let some of these schools that try to have football actually make it through a season. Every year some teams try to play fielding only 12 or 13 kids and they end up forfeiting a bunch of games, which is unfair to their opponents. I worked a scrimmage last year and one team only had 12 players. We knew then they would not make it through the season. They played something like 2 games, then forfeited the remainder.

Arkansas High school football is pretty much a joke compared to lots of states.  The population is too little and spread too thinly.
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FineAsSwine

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #69 on: June 01, 2017, 11:16:35 am »

Sports require the involvement of parents, particularly dads.  Oh, of course, there are exceptions and feel good stories, but the general truth remains.  The problem with Little Rock is pretty much a problem around the country in innner cities.  The family unit is so lacking as to be nonexistent.  You won't get many athletes out of that chaos.

And if you are getting more basketball players now, it is no coincidence as that basketball is the one sport where actual skills can be developed by a kid on his own.  All you need is a $30 ball, a goal, and a few friends.

This is stupid. Most of the other SEC schools have no problem recruiting inner city kids and they get enough to outrank the Hogs in recruiting every year.

Need to find a new scapegoat for recruiting because inner city kids aren't the reason for the Hogs recruiting issues.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2017, 12:02:14 pm »

I'm thinking fish noodling is now the most popular sport.........................
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GuvHog

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2017, 12:03:53 pm »

I agree they need 8 man football, but I dont think it would make football in AR HS, as a whole, better. What it would do would be let some of these schools that try to have football actually make it through a season. Every year some teams try to play fielding only 12 or 13 kids and they end up forfeiting a bunch of games, which is unfair to their opponents. I worked a scrimmage last year and one team only had 12 players. We knew then they would not make it through the season. They played something like 2 games, then forfeited the remainder.

I agree that 8 man football might be a good thing to look at for the 1A and 2A classifications but not for 3A thru 7A.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2017, 12:08:41 pm »

I agree that 8 man football might be a good thing to look at for the 1A and 2A classifications but not for 3A thru 7A.

1a is the non football schools. now some of them might want to take up football if it was 8 man, which would move them to 2a, but that's fine. The 3a-7a schools are big enough that they have sufficient #'s for 11 man football already.
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niels_boar

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2017, 12:31:53 pm »

I'll be surprised if football's participation rate and fan-interest rate hasn't peaked nationally.  Concussion worries are going to steer parents towards non-collision sports.  Heck, parents don't even seem to let kids play outdoors by themselves any more.  Millennials don't seen to be as interested in sports as previous generations either.  They may be the first generation since the invention of television that watches less sports than the previous one.  At least that's the anecdotal impression I get. My guess is that football interest will drop off the most precipitously.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2017, 12:34:37 pm »

I'll be surprised if football's participation rate and fan-interest rate hasn't peaked nationally.  Concussion worries are going to steer parents towards non-collision sports.  Heck, parents don't even seem to let kids play outdoors by themselves any more.  Millennials don't seen to be as interested in sports as previous generations either.  They may be the first generation since the invention of television that watches less sports than the previous one.  At least that's the anecdotal impression I get. My guess is that football interest will drop off the most precipitously.

Some parents have been steering their kids away from sports with more collisions forever. 
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niels_boar

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #75 on: June 01, 2017, 12:39:12 pm »

Some parents have been steering their kids away from sports with more collisions forever.

Yeah, but when more parents than some start steering their kids away it makes an impact.  Football health consequences have never gotten as much negative publicity as they have in the last five years.  I'll be surprised if that has zero impact in the next 10 years or so as toddlers move on to high school in a parenting culture that has steadily gotten more risk averse.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #76 on: June 01, 2017, 12:43:16 pm »


Hardscrabble Country Club   Probably the best golf course in the nation between Tulsa, Oklahoma and Augusta, Georgia.  Has hosted several key golf tournaments (Trans-Mississippi Amateur Championships and Nike Tour/Nationwide Tour/Web.com Tour).



I walked on the golf team at Westark ( UAFS now ) just so I could play Hardscrabble for free as it was our home course. Got to play it once or twice a week for 2 years.
Millennials don't seen to be as interested in sports as previous generations either.  They may be the first generation since the invention of television that watches less sports than the previous one. 


My son is 18 and neither he or any of his friends watch tv at all, and they do not watch sports via streaming or any other service.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #77 on: June 01, 2017, 12:51:57 pm »

Yeah, but when more parents than some start steering their kids away it makes an impact.  Football health consequences have never gotten as much negative publicity as they have in the last five years.  I'll be surprised if that has zero impact in the next 10 years or so as toddlers move on to high school in a parenting culture that has steadily gotten more risk averse.

There always has been more steering them away than encouraging it.
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niels_boar

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #78 on: June 01, 2017, 01:10:34 pm »

There always has been more steering them away than encouraging it.

What matters is the trend line.  If, for the sake of argument,  60% of parents in the 70's steered their children away from football but now 70% of parents steer their children away from football, it will be of little comfort to the NFL bean counters that a majority of parents have always steered their children away from football.

I just looked at some data.  Youth participation rate per capita in football seems to have been slowly decreasing since early in the naughts even before the concussion scare hit, though it has not accelerated recently.  However, the numbers seem to be buoyed a little by increasing popularity of flag football.  Heck, I didn't even know that organized flag football existed.  It didn't back in the stone ages when I was a kid.  I played youth football and would have laughed at my Dad if he had given me a choice.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #79 on: June 01, 2017, 01:34:53 pm »

There always has been more steering them away than encouraging it.

C.W. Keopple steered as many kids away from football as he could every August. 
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Seebs

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #80 on: June 01, 2017, 01:41:47 pm »

Costs less - check
No movies on concussions for the sport - check
Can play anytime, anywhere with anyone - check
Played year round in climate controlled environment - check

Should be overtaking football in all states.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #81 on: June 01, 2017, 01:59:22 pm »

What matters is the trend line.  If, for the sake of argument,  60% of parents in the 70's steered their children away from football but now 70% of parents steer their children away from football, it will be of little comfort to the NFL bean counters that a majority of parents have always steered their children away from football.

I just looked at some data.  Youth participation rate per capita in football seems to have been slowly decreasing since early in the naughts even before the concussion scare hit, though it has not accelerated recently.  However, the numbers seem to be buoyed a little by increasing popularity of flag football.  Heck, I didn't even know that organized flag football existed.  It didn't back in the stone ages when I was a kid.  I played youth football and would have laughed at my Dad if he had given me a choice.


I know how this is going to sound, but in the areas that produce the majority of NFL players, participation is not going down.  Participation is going down in the suburbs as parents steer their kids to baseball, or golf or tennis or whatever. My son plays baseball and he was recently in a tournament at a complex outside of Tulsa. This complex has at least 8 baseball fields. Many soccer fields, and they also have a lacrosse league and a rugby league. They have huge spring, summer and fall leagues, but not one tackle football team or field.
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LZH

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #82 on: June 01, 2017, 02:08:26 pm »

I was actually surprised, for some reason, to find out after I got grown and well into my twenties that not every red-blooded Southerner was a huge football fanatic. Most of you are like me - we loved the game as kids and played the game as kids, and that has stuck with us our entire lives.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #83 on: June 01, 2017, 03:55:04 pm »

C.W. Keopple steered as many kids away from football as he could every August. 

His daughter was married to my best friend at one time.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #84 on: June 01, 2017, 08:55:10 pm »

I was actually surprised, for some reason, to find out after I got grown and well into my twenties that not every red-blooded Southerner was a huge football fanatic. Most of you are like me - we loved the game as kids and played the game as kids, and that has stuck with us our entire lives.

Yep.  hogsanitys are taking over the world, though.  Hide your kids from the concussion peddlers. 
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Cinco de Hogo

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #85 on: June 02, 2017, 07:52:03 am »

This is stupid. Most of the other SEC schools have no problem recruiting inner city kids and they get enough to outrank the Hogs in recruiting every year.

Need to find a new scapegoat for recruiting because inner city kids aren't the reason for the Hogs recruiting issues.

I think you missed the point.  All inner cities have the same problems but what I got out of it was the the "adults" in Little Rock have made a big mess of things for years now and that hurts all the HS programs in that city.   The results are little to no significant recruiting in Arkansas biggest city...two if you count Fort Smith.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #86 on: June 02, 2017, 08:46:56 am »

Yep.  hogsanitys are taking over the world, though.  Hide your kids from the concussion peddlers. 

Umm, one of my kids played football, and the other can if he wants to.
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PearlHarbor

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #87 on: June 02, 2017, 11:35:59 am »

What is going on with little rock football? It's been pitiful for some time now.
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Rock City Razorback

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #88 on: June 02, 2017, 01:10:34 pm »

The state as a whole is a football state. In the majority of high schools, especially the smaller ones, it's all about football. The typical whole town comes together and only thing going on Friday night. It's the South, that's pretty much the consensus. Razorback fans spend more (tickets, traveling, tailgating, etc) on football and seem to support it even when it's mediocre year after year. That's who we are. But the excitement is there, nonetheless. That being said, UA will always be more nationally relevant through basketball and I believe can build a consistent Top 25 program if things go right like we're hoping with the upcoming classes and have seen in the past.
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Letsroll1200

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #89 on: June 02, 2017, 03:03:18 pm »

Basketball is King in central Arkansas. People leave work early to get seats to attend basketball games in central Arkansas. It's big time with big time players. I can't name one can't miss recruit in football in central Arkansas that people would like to go see. I can name about 6-7 kids in central Arkansas that are worth going to see in the next couple of years for basketball. 
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hogwild6700

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #90 on: June 05, 2017, 12:17:27 pm »

We will always be a Football State in terms of where the fanbase's passion lies. I think what the OP means to say is that HS BBALL Talent is ahead of the curve whereas Football always has been behind the curve.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #91 on: June 05, 2017, 01:06:52 pm »

We will always be a Football State in terms of where the fanbase's passion lies. I think what the OP means to say is that HS BBALL Talent is ahead of the curve whereas Football always has been behind the curve.

That's really not true either. State produces about the same level of high d1 players in both sports.
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shown006

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #92 on: June 07, 2017, 08:10:35 am »

There are three players from Pulaski Robinson, which is in LR, on scholarship right now...and possibly a 4thnext year, Nathan Page.
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The_Iceman

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #93 on: June 07, 2017, 08:21:34 am »

I agree that 8 man football might be a good thing to look at for the 1A and 2A classifications but not for 3A thru 7A.

Union Christian in Ft. Smith was mediocre in football in 2A. They left the Arkansas Activities Association (a joke of an organization) and joined an Oklahoma association that plays 8-man, and have been pretty successful.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #94 on: June 07, 2017, 09:19:50 am »

Union Christian in Ft. Smith was mediocre in football in 2A. They left the Arkansas Activities Association (a joke of an organization) and joined an Oklahoma association that plays 8-man, and have been pretty successful.

Last year was their 1st season of 8 man football, and the league they play in now is made up entirely of small religious based schools, iirc. Union's problem is extremely low #'s and the insistence they have on playing football at all.

Another problem in Ar HS football is how stupid the playoffs are. Every year teams with only 1 or 2 wins, sometimes with ZERo wins, make the playoffs, way too many teams make it.
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oldhog63

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #95 on: June 07, 2017, 11:09:58 am »

Can't speak for the rest of the state, but growing up in NEA it always seemed that basketball was the priority.  Even for the bigger schools.

Not sure where in NEA you grew up, but so did I and where I am from in NEA, football is King and it is not even close.
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Barack Hogama

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #96 on: June 07, 2017, 11:34:28 am »

We will always be a Football State in terms of where the fanbase's passion lies. I think what the OP means to say is that HS BBALL Talent is ahead of the curve whereas Football always has been behind the curve.

I could somewhat agree with this.  Arkansas has the talent with athletes all over the state, for some reason they are just not developed as well or not playing football.  Little Rock should be a breeding ground for Arkansas football.  Maybe Little Rock Catholic needs to do more recruiting and create a giant in Arkansas similar to what De La Salle has in Concord, CA.   
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Grizzlyfan

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #97 on: June 07, 2017, 11:41:13 am »

That's really not true either. State produces about the same level of high d1 players in both sports.
You can put your starting line up on the court in basketball with that # of "high d1 players".  It's a drop in the bucket for your football roster.
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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #98 on: June 07, 2017, 12:16:04 pm »

I could somewhat agree with this.  Arkansas has the talent with athletes all over the state, for some reason they are just not developed as well or not playing football.  Little Rock should be a breeding ground for Arkansas football.  Maybe Little Rock Catholic needs to do more recruiting and create a giant in Arkansas similar to what De La Salle has in Concord, CA.   

The thing that hurt LR in regards to HS football is when the state raised it's minimum grade average requirement to participate in HS sports. Some that would be good players just aren't making the grades to be eligible and aren't being pushed to do so.
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hogsanity

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Re: Basketball is taking over football in Arkansas.
« Reply #99 on: June 07, 2017, 12:20:35 pm »

The thing that hurt LR in regards to HS football is when the state raised it's minimum grade average requirement to participate in HS sports. Some that would be good players just aren't making the grades to be eligible and aren't being pushed to do so.

yea, its horrible to have to pass classes to play sports.
I could somewhat agree with this.  Arkansas has the talent with athletes all over the state, for some reason they are just not developed as well or not playing football. 


that's the problem, they are spread out all over the state, playing at tiny schools. 
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