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Author Topic: Wonder how Tenner is making the numbers work?...  (Read 15614 times)

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Danny J

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Re: How does Tennessee sign a class with 79 signees
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2015, 07:17:39 pm »

I am not bitching.  My logic works like this:  look how friggin great we just did... Imagine if we could sign as many as they do and not get sanctioned by the NCAA.  Those guys out rank us in recruiting only because they sign 84 kids every year!
They signed 84 kids this year?
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snoblind

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Re: How does Tennessee sign a class with 79 signees
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2015, 07:20:08 pm »

Not sure, but every time someone wants to bitch about us not recruiting as well as Tennessee, remind them that 7 and soon to be 8 4* recruits from their 2014 class have already or will be transferring before the season.
Your artificial recruiting ranking doesn't mean dick if you can't keep them over a year


I didn't read it as complaining about them doing better.
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Athog

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Re: How does Tennessee sign a class with 79 signees
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2015, 07:22:50 pm »

Well one thing is for sure no one can explain or answer your question!!
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770john111

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Re: How does Tennessee sign a class with 79 signees
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2015, 07:23:37 pm »

Not sure but didn't they have 32 last year.oh yeah their stadium is bigger.
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Darrell Royal's Floating Flaming Fulminating Spectral Head

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Re: How does Tennessee sign a class with 79 signees
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2015, 07:23:42 pm »

They signed 84 kids this year?

My sources say they signed 137 kids this year.

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Darrell Royal's Floating Flaming Fulminating Spectral Head

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mhuff

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Re: How does Tennessee sign a class with 79 signees
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2015, 07:37:21 pm »

No one in Knoxville understands it either. Last year they said most of them were legacies. I don't know what the rationale will be this year
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rwspear

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Re: How does Tennessee sign a class with 79 signees
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2015, 07:43:02 pm »

79??? zomg
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latrops

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Re: How does Tennessee sign a class with 79 signees
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2015, 07:47:09 pm »

Well one thing is for sure no one can explain or answer your question!!

There is an answer, but it is complicated and there are a few "loopholes". 

First...Players who do not sign a letter of intent, but rather enroll in January for the spring semester as "early enrollees," don't count against the 25 if there is room left over from the previous recruiting class.

Second...while 25 is the "official" number allowed per year, you can actually go to 28 as long as you don't go over the 85 man limit.

Third...some are expected to not qualify or be greyshirted.  Point being, while LOIs may be signed, not all 30something players are actually ultimately going to be granted a scholarship. 

This info is dated...if rules have changed in the last couple of years I don't really know...just summarizing my understanding.

At least that's the gist of how aTm did it a couple of years ago...

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2013/1/22/3883100/texas-a-m-aggies-football-recruiting-how-can-a-m-take-34-recruits-in-2013
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ArmyOfnobunaga

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Re: How does Tennessee sign a class with 79 signees
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2015, 07:48:46 pm »

My housekeepers sister who works in knoxville and is a housekeeper says that they give all recruits all the tres leches they can eat a year for signing there.

That is my sauce.

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hoggusamoungus

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Re: How does Tennessee sign a class with 79 signees
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2015, 07:56:44 pm »

Not sure, but every time someone wants to bitch about us not recruiting as well as Tennessee, remind them that 7 and soon to be 8 4* recruits from their 2014 class have already or will be transferring before the season.
Your artificial recruiting ranking doesn't mean dick if you can't keep them over a year

http://www.knoxnews.com/govolsxtra/football/jenkins-wharton-granted-releases-sawyers-dismissed_42943570
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NaturalStateReb

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Re: Wonder how Tenner is making the numbers work?...
« Reply #62 on: February 05, 2015, 06:38:59 am »

I am not bitching.  My logic works like this:  look how friggin great we just did... Imagine if we could sign as many as they do and not get sanctioned by the NCAA.  Those guys out rank us in recruiting only because they sign 84 kids every year!

So, why can't you?
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jbcarol

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Re: Wonder how Tenner is making the numbers work?...
« Reply #63 on: February 05, 2015, 07:30:03 am »

Chris Low @ClowESPN  ·  15 hours ago

Vols with another top 5 class this year. One thing to remember, though, is that 7 four-star players from '14 class are gone or transferring.
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outlawhogeywells

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signing more than 25
« Reply #64 on: February 05, 2015, 08:44:36 am »

Can someone explain the chinese math that is involved in being able to sign more than the 25?  As in how can Tennessee continue to sign upwards of 30?  Coach B said yesterday we had room for 28 but could only sign 25. 
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hoggusamoungus

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2015, 08:47:12 am »

http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/columnist/david-climer/2015/01/25/college-football-recruiting-national-signing-day/22328301/


Point of order: By rule, the 25-player maximum does not take effect until the start of preseason practice. If you can figure out a way to get your list of newcomers down to 25 by then, you're in compliance.

There are many ways to massage the numbers. Take UT's 2014 recruiting class, for example. On signing day last year, Vols coach Butch Jones explained that he was counting some of the signees, who already were enrolled in school, against the previous year's class, which had totaled 21.  By the time UT started preseason practice, the Vols were under the wire.

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immahog

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2015, 08:49:16 am »

this has been my question
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jacobp

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #67 on: February 05, 2015, 08:54:46 am »

also regarding UT, there are 8 players from their 2014 class ranked 4* or higher that are no longer on the team.

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rhog1

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Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #68 on: February 05, 2015, 09:30:26 am »

http://www.knoxnews.com/govolsxtra/football/southdoyles-joc-bruce-says-he-will-blueshirt-at-tennessee_99441053
I didn't see this talked about here.
"Blueshirting means that the player must arrive at school as a walk-on having not taken an official visit to campus, having not received an in-home visit from the coaching staff and having not signed a letter of intent or any promise of academic aid. The player could be granted a scholarship once preseason practice begins and not count against that class."

Seems Tennessee is using a loophole to sign so many kids.
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dhizzle

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #69 on: February 05, 2015, 09:31:49 am »

This is how the Vols signed 29 this year.

The Vols signed 17 players on Wednesday, adding that group to the 10 who enrolled in January. Tennessee will also blueshirt two players, multi-purpose athletes Jocquez Bruce of South-Doyle and Vincent Perry of Hillsboro. Bruce and Perry did not take an official visit to UT, did not receive in-home visits from coaches and did not sign National Letters of Intent on Wednesday, but they will join the program for preseason practice and be placed on scholarship at that time. Their scholarships will not count against the limit of 25 for the 2015 class but will count against the limit for the 2016 class.

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dhizzle

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2015, 09:34:42 am »

"The Vols signed 17 players on Wednesday, adding that group to the 10 who enrolled in January. Tennessee will also blueshirt two players, multi-purpose athletes Jocquez Bruce of South-Doyle and Vincent Perry of Hillsboro. Bruce and Perry did not take an official visit to UT, did not receive in-home visits from coaches and did not sign National Letters of Intent on Wednesday, but they will join the program for preseason practice and be placed on scholarship at that time. Their scholarships will not count against the limit of 25 for the 2015 class but will count against the limit for the 2016 class."
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hawginbigd1

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #71 on: February 05, 2015, 09:37:47 am »

I have been following recruiting for a long time and this year is the first time I have heard Blue shirting, Blue shirts are unofficialy recruited guys, no in-home or OV allowed, but they can walk-on on signing day and today can be given a scholarship that will count against next years total. This would be another way to get around the mythical 25.
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rhog1

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2015, 09:38:41 am »

"The Vols signed 17 players on Wednesday, adding that group to the 10 who enrolled in January. Tennessee will also blueshirt two players, multi-purpose athletes Jocquez Bruce of South-Doyle and Vincent Perry of Hillsboro. Bruce and Perry did not take an official visit to UT, did not receive in-home visits from coaches and did not sign National Letters of Intent on Wednesday, but they will join the program for preseason practice and be placed on scholarship at that time. Their scholarships will not count against the limit of 25 for the 2015 class but will count against the limit for the 2016 class."
It is a way for them to take a marginal prospect that they don't want to risk a scholarship spot on from this class on, and if the kid doesn't work out then I am sure he will be phased out by this time next year and they can try again without impacting current class numbers.
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Hogfaniam

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #73 on: February 05, 2015, 09:48:14 am »

Sounds like bull shirting to me.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #74 on: February 05, 2015, 09:51:54 am »

Fuzzy common Core Math.
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apcapri

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #75 on: February 05, 2015, 09:52:25 am »

Says they count against 2016 so I guess next year they have 23?
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ricepig

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #76 on: February 05, 2015, 09:54:22 am »

Says they count against 2016 so I guess next year they have 23?

Until they get 10 kids to do the same for 2016. Butch is mortgaging his future now, it's going to hard on the next guy.
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PorkRinds

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #77 on: February 05, 2015, 09:55:56 am »

Says they count against 2016 so I guess next year they have 23?

Unless those kids don't work out, then it's no harm no foul.
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SpineHog

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #78 on: February 05, 2015, 09:56:00 am »

Says they count against 2016 so I guess next year they have 23?

As of now yes, but they apparently plan to show several kids the door each year so it won't actually affect the availability of 2016 spots by this time next year. 4-year scholarships, despite some of their downsides, will hopefully close this loophole.
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Hogfaniam

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #79 on: February 05, 2015, 09:57:11 am »

Basically, you can bring in as many  as you want, but you can't have more than 85 on scholarship.  Grayshirt, blue shirt, bull shirt.  What a chess game.
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #80 on: February 05, 2015, 09:57:33 am »

As of now yes, but they apparently plan to show several kids the door each year so it won't actually affect the availability of 2016 spots by this time next year. 4-year scholarships, despite some of their downsides, will hopefully close this loophole.

Show enough kids the door and keep losing you'll see the media feelay him.
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apcapri

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #81 on: February 05, 2015, 10:00:03 am »

Unless those kids don't work out, then it's no harm no foul.

So it's not like if a kid signs and doesn't make it the scholarship is lost?  Like if Reed doesn't pass algebra then we lose that scholly...can't use it for someone else and count back.
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Jackrabbit Hog

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #82 on: February 05, 2015, 10:02:05 am »

Show enough kids the door and keep losing you'll see the media feelay him.

Tennessee fans - and even some in the media - are so starved for a decent football team that they don't care about how he gets it done, just as long as he does get it done.
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onebadrubi

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #83 on: February 05, 2015, 10:02:11 am »

Until they get 10 kids to do the same for 2016. Butch is mortgaging his future now, it's going to hard on the next guy.

Well hold on, think about this.  He's getting them enrolled as a freshman on family or financed dimes.  So it's paid for!  The kids are led to believe they will be given a scholarship, or else they probably wouldn't bother with this process.  Come time to find out if they will get one or not, they will have settled in, got laid a few times, and made friends (probably not the same as the previous thought).  They will then most likely at least ride out the first entire semester and then look at options.  even then they may not be interested in leaving where they are at. 

The vols are not making long term wise decisions.  He is flying by the seat of his pants and making decisions for now.  Compare his tactics to Bielema's, whose do you prefer?

Also, if this loophole was there then you can't get mad at them for exploiting it.  Don't hate the playa, hate the game.  At least if they were to offer the scholarship it would count against the future class. 
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onebadrubi

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #84 on: February 05, 2015, 10:03:31 am »

So it's not like if a kid signs and doesn't make it the scholarship is lost?  Like if Reed doesn't pass algebra then we lose that scholly...can't use it for someone else and count back.

They aren't promised a scholarship, where as now yes reed owns that scholarship against the 25 for 2 years, no matter what, even if he can't enrol.  From my understanding.

Also, does ANYONE really believe these kids and their parents weren't visited and this planned laid out?
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LRHawg

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #85 on: February 05, 2015, 10:05:18 am »

Pretty scummy way of doing recruiting, but hey if you ain't cheatin you ain't trying I guess, to some folks.
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apcapri

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #86 on: February 05, 2015, 10:07:42 am »

They aren't promised a scholarship, where as now yes reed owns that scholarship against the 25 for 2 years, no matter what, even if he can't enrol.  From my understanding.

Also, does ANYONE really believe these kids and their parents weren't visited and this planned laid out?

I see. Until they are offered the scholarship then it just a normal walk on.

It says in home...just meet somewhere else.
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snoblind

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #87 on: February 05, 2015, 10:09:04 am »

Now you know why the SEC requires college Algebra...


;)
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LRHawg

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #88 on: February 05, 2015, 10:10:58 am »

It amazes me that they've done as well as they have with these practices. Who wants to risk being left out if things don't work out? I guess kids will always have the mentality that it won't happen to them, though.
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Hogsmo Kramer

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #89 on: February 05, 2015, 10:32:24 am »

This is playing with dynamite IMO.

I guarantee you they're telling these kids they'll get a schollie and when enough of them don't they'll get pissed and I bet some stuff starts leaking out.

Just feels really fishy to me and I'll be surprised if Butch doesn't end up with egg on his face in the end.

We'll see though I could be wrong.
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Hoggish1

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2015, 10:33:21 am »

I guess kids will always have the mentality that it won't happen to them, though.

You know how bullet proof kids are in their late teens...
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Hoggish1

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2015, 10:40:06 am »

I like BB's way.  When you maneuver, you don't always remember the intricate moves you set in motion, or the promises you or they thought were made.

Let's just go over to Knoxville and take care of business next fall and let Butch explain it to his fans and players...
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bigdaddyhawg

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #92 on: February 05, 2015, 10:40:07 am »

also regarding UT, there are 8 players from their 2014 class ranked 4* or higher that are no longer on the team.

Dadgum, I had not read that.  That's pretty freaking amazing, even for a place like Tenn.

Wonder if all that stuff might end up affecting their academic progress thingee that I can't at this moment remember the acronym for?
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dhizzle

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2015, 10:46:19 am »

Dadgum, I had not read that.  That's pretty freaking amazing, even for a place like Tenn.

Wonder if all that stuff might end up affecting their academic progress thingee that I can't at this moment remember the acronym for?

APR and yes it could down the road.
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KMB90

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2015, 10:47:35 am »

I have been following recruiting for a long time and this year is the first time I have heard Blue shirting, Blue shirts are unofficialy recruited guys, no in-home or OV allowed, but they can walk-on on signing day and today can be given a scholarship that will count against next years total. This would be another way to get around the mythical 25.

New Mexico St has been doing this for years. It is not a new development.
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rwspear

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Re: signing more than 25
« Reply #95 on: February 05, 2015, 10:48:36 am »

they plan on kids leaving for..... whatever reason
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STLhawg

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #96 on: February 05, 2015, 11:05:04 am »

Also, does ANYONE really believe these kids and their parents weren't visited and this planned laid out?
I noticed that both those kids visited UT numerous times on unofficial visits (at least according to 247sports) and both kids were showing as offered during the summer.

What I also wonder is why recruiting services count theses kids for schools like UT (and USCe) but they don't count Arkansas' 3* walk-ons.  It seems like they favoring the other schools to help their recruiting score out.  Just more proof these recruiting rankings are far from exact and should be taken with a grain of salt!
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BearsBisonsBoars

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #97 on: February 05, 2015, 11:11:17 am »

I don't understand why any kid would do this. I mean, if you're good enough to be looked at by Tenner, then you're probably good enough to start at a non-power five or a D2 school with a scholarship.

With the growth of CFB and associated media, it's not like you can't get your name out to NFL scouts anyway. After all, didn't that Rook who caught the Super Bowl winning INT come out of lowly West Alabama?

Why risk your education like this? Makes no sense.  ???
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onebadrubi

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #98 on: February 05, 2015, 11:12:23 am »

I noticed that both those kids visited UT numerous times on unofficial visits (at least according to 247sports) and both kids were showing as offered during the summer.

What I also wonder is why recruiting services count theses kids for schools like UT (and USCe) but they don't count Arkansas' 3* walk-ons.  It seems like they favoring the other schools to help their recruiting score out.  Just more proof these recruiting rankings are far from exact and should be taken with a grain of salt!

First post?  Welcome aboard.

I believe it is subscriptions.  Having three solid walk-ons doesn't get opposing message boards to talk about your story and share it...see this thread.  Pulling out the school that is asking kids to "Blue shirt" who I bet 100 of the Div 1 football coaches didn't exist or an instance of what happened to the RB out of SC. 
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onebadrubi

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Re: Tennessee Blueshirting
« Reply #99 on: February 05, 2015, 11:13:09 am »

I don't understand why any kid would do this. I mean, if you're good enough to be looked at by Tenner, then you're probably good enough to start at a non-power five or a D2 school with a scholarship.

With the growth of CFB and associated media, it's not like you can't get your name out to NFL scouts anyway. After all, didn't that Rook who caught the Super Bowl winning INT come out of lowly West Alabama?

Why risk your education like this? Makes no sense.  ???

I would have rather taken an invited walk on spot at Arkansas than take a schollie at UCA.  Just sayin...

Their education is not at risk.  They should not have made this decision without planning for the worst, paying for their education. 
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