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Arkansas Basketball is still a TOP 10 job

Started by WILL CLINTON, February 27, 2006, 09:35:00 am

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nwarazfan

Quote from: JFen on February 27, 2006, 02:34:30 pm
nwarazfan,

Thanks for the explaination.  While I tend to think that Stan will be a good coach, I don't think he will ever get to the point of a Rick Pitino, Roy Williams, Coach K, Gary Williams, Bob Knight, Lute Olson, or even Mark Few or Bill Self.  At the time he was hired, he may have been our only real choice for the job. (I don't think Mike Anderson would have been the man, either.)  Maybe, at that time, we couldn't get Self or Floyd.  Maybe Stan was the best that we could do.
Fans, like me - at least, want a guy that we can name the court after.  Someone that I could send my kid off to his basketball cam and be assured that he is going to be taught all of the fundamentals - the right way.  After Nolan, we felt that we should have a coach that would represent all the great things about Nolan and leave the race card at home.  While Stan is improving, I still haven't seen anything from him that would show he is deserving of a job at UA.  (Past three games have shown signs of not only the team's improvement, but his as well.)  We took a gamble on a guy who has 1 year experience and one post season tournament and experience as an assistant at Michigan St. - who was only good because Michigan was under investigation by the NCAA.  He may turn out to be solid like a Bruce Webber or Billy Donovan, but I am very arrogant and selfish when it comes to UA Basketball and think we deserve the best. 

I hope this allows you to see my point of view.  I am not trying to convince you, but telling you how I see the cards.  Your point of view is interesting to me.  And while I don't agree with you, it has bettered me to at least know why you stand they way you do on these issues.

I agree he may never get to the level of all of those coaches(exception of Few which I'll address later)you mentioned who are at least legends of their era if not all time.  The chances of us hiring another legend of his time coach for the 3rd straight time is astronomical.  Only been done once and that was at UK and you could maybe may a case for KU even though Larry Brown is more of an NBA legendary coach. 

Self appears to be able to build great programs from what he left Webber and from the looks of his freshman this year.  What has Tim Floyd ever won?  Not trying to be argumentative but Donovan has taken a team to the Final 4 and played for a NC.  He is not just a good college coach.  Again, if Stan does what Donovan has done that would mean 3 straight F4 coaches.  What other schools can claim that? 

We can scrap the progress and go looking and paying in hopes of landing a legend or see our current improving investment through to pay off.

And Mark Few did not build Gonzaga.  I keep seeing his name mentioned but it was Dan Monson that took them to the elite 8 and left the foundation for Few.  Paul Hewitt at Ga Tech is more accomplished than Few.

WILL CLINTON

Quote from: pseudorabies on February 27, 2006, 02:20:41 pm
Quote from: Lokirain on February 27, 2006, 02:17:19 pm
Let me say this again, Heath is under contract, he's not just leaving.

Hide and watch. 

Explain please.  You think Heath is leaving after this year?  You think he will just up and leave at the first job up north?
There is no sacred ground for the conquered.

 

stan the man

I don't see Stan Heath leaving Arkansas any time soon.  With a little more chemistry this year we could have been undefeated in conference play.  I think we are finally reaping the benifits of Hipster on the staff.  What makes anyone think that if Heath leaves that Frank or a committee will not hire another so called up and comer.  Maybe, and this may be a stretch, Mr. Heath is finally figuring out how to coach big time basketball.  I think he will get that chance and if he doesn't show improvement next year then we should look for a proven coach and not another unproven one.  No way is he going to go to another program and start over unless that program has proven talent already on campus unless he is forced to.  I know I will get blasted for this but what if Heath is finally getting it and he goes somewhere else and does good.     

pseudorabies

Quote from: dubyacee on February 27, 2006, 03:34:57 pm
Quote from: pseudorabies on February 27, 2006, 02:20:41 pm
Quote from: Lokirain on February 27, 2006, 02:17:19 pm
Let me say this again, Heath is under contract, he's not just leaving.

Hide and watch. 

Explain please.  You think Heath is leaving after this year?  You think he will just up and leave at the first job up north?

I think Heath is looking for a place that he and his family will feel more comfortable at.  I believe this is his last year here.

Lokirain

Quote from: pseudorabies on February 27, 2006, 03:42:47 pm
Quote from: dubyacee on February 27, 2006, 03:34:57 pm
Quote from: pseudorabies on February 27, 2006, 02:20:41 pm
Quote from: Lokirain on February 27, 2006, 02:17:19 pm
Let me say this again, Heath is under contract, he's not just leaving.

Hide and watch. 

Explain please.  You think Heath is leaving after this year?  You think he will just up and leave at the first job up north?

I think Heath is looking for a place that he and his family will feel more comfortable at.  I believe this is his last year here.

Then he'll owe the University of Arkansas a lot of money. Sure people have been hard on the coach, but since we're going dancing, he's gotta be feeling the love right now. I am sure those people that were cussing at him are now naming their kids Lil Stan (ok, maybe that's too much), but for some reason, I've noticed a lot of kids named Nolan that are around 10 years old. (And it's not for Ryan either).

pseudorabies

Quote from: Lokirain on February 27, 2006, 03:47:33 pm
Quote from: pseudorabies on February 27, 2006, 03:42:47 pm
Quote from: dubyacee on February 27, 2006, 03:34:57 pm
Quote from: pseudorabies on February 27, 2006, 02:20:41 pm
Quote from: Lokirain on February 27, 2006, 02:17:19 pm
Let me say this again, Heath is under contract, he's not just leaving.

Hide and watch. 

Explain please.  You think Heath is leaving after this year?  You think he will just up and leave at the first job up north?

I think Heath is looking for a place that he and his family will feel more comfortable at.  I believe this is his last year here.

Then he'll owe the University of Arkansas a lot of money. Sure people have been hard on the coach, but since we're going dancing, he's gotta be feeling the love right now. I am sure those people that were cussing at him are now naming their kids Lil Stan (ok, maybe that's too much), but for some reason, I've noticed a lot of kids named Nolan that are around 10 years old. (And it's not for Ryan either).

If he leaves, he will not owe the University anything.

Dwight_K_Shrute

Could Stan end up at Indiana rather than Iowa.  What if they don't go after Alford or Alford turns it down because he doesn't want to put up with the comparisons to Knight.  Stan would be the Anti Mike Davis just like he was the Anti Nolan.  Plus he plays Big 10 ball.

If we finish strong several schools will come after Stan.  I think the wife and family plays a big part here.  Then we decide if we counter, if we don't counter then we damn sure better have a list of coaches ready to go after.  And I don't want a damn up and comer with 2 years under his belt at an MVC school.

As far as my feelings about keeping Stan, I reserve the right to change my mind about him based on how we finish the year.  As of today I'm still not convinced.
Little known fact, but prior to settling on Guantanamo, the Pentagon wanted to house terror suspects at War Memorial Stadium.  It was deemed to be cruel and unusual punishment and in violation of the Geneva Convention.

nwarazfan

Quote from: Dwight_K_Shrute on February 27, 2006, 04:29:53 pm
Could Stan end up at Indiana rather than Iowa.  What if they don't go after Alford or Alford turns it down because he doesn't want to put up with the comparisons to Knight.  Stan would be the Anti Mike Davis just like he was the Anti Nolan.  Plus he plays Big 10 ball.

If we finish strong several schools will come after Stan.  I think the wife and family plays a big part here.  Then we decide if we counter, if we don't counter then we damn sure better have a list of coaches ready to go after.  And I don't want a damn up and comer with 2 years under his belt at an MVC school.

As far as my feelings about keeping Stan, I reserve the right to change my mind about him based on how we finish the year.  As of today I'm still not convinced.

No way Stan should go to IU.  Why?  It would be the same situation as here or maybe worse with the fans.  And he is just about to the point here where he has all the talent in place in all areas to start winning.  This Big 10 style you speak of is just rhetoric.  Let this team get a consistant shooter to help eliminate our scoring droughts and you will see a faster paced team if that is what you need.

Albert Einswine

Quote from: hogfan064 on February 27, 2006, 10:27:52 am
Quote from: Hogs4Ever on February 27, 2006, 10:19:30 am
Then why aren't we ranked in the Top 10?  Top 25?  Notta for Heath's entire tenure.  I hope he is turning it around.  We have been down WAY too long.

Gotta ask coach that question.  Yeah I know we won 3 big games, but like I've said many times the Hogs are supposed to win these games.  We're not supposed to lose to Ole Miss and MSU.  I expected sweet 16  from this team at the beginning of the year.  I'll be dissapointed and angry at Heath for nothing less.  This is a very talented group that for most of the season has underachieved.  Sorry, but I won't be satisfied with just an appearance and no wins in the Dance
I seem to remember losing to Ole Miss and MSU a bunch in Nolans last few seasons.  Especially Ole Miss, and them beating us with Arkansas kids that Nolan wouldn't even look at.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

Genuine Mahawgony

Here's my top 11 basketball programs in the country.  Which one of these 11 gets kicked out?  Did i leave anybody off that deserves to be in here more than one listed? 

Kansas
Kentucky
Duke
North Carolina
UCONN
Arizona
Illinois
UCLA (only because of incredible history)
Arkansas
Michigan St
Indiana

Ugly Uncle

Quote from: franksbluepills on February 27, 2006, 11:53:45 pm
Here's my top 11 basketball programs in the country.  Which one of these 11 gets kicked out?  Did i leave anybody off that deserves to be in here more than one listed? 

Kansas
Kentucky
Duke
North Carolina
UCONN
Arizona
Illinois
UCLA (only because of incredible history)
Arkansas
Michigan St
Indiana

I'm not sure about Illinois in there.  I don't know that they have that much tradition, money, or facilities.  I could be wrong, and please correct me if I am.  I just don't think they would be one that should rate that high.  I know they have been good the last few...definately top 20.  Again, just my opinion.
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stronguard

I think the Illini come in just a tier below the rest, but I might be inclined to add Louisville to the list of all-time great programs.  A case could also be made for Michigan, Oklahoma St., and possible NC State. IMO
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hawkeyefan17

Stan Heath to Iowa? No, it won't happen. Arkansas is his program now, he has built this thing and he will be here at least for a couple more years. The only way I would want Heath at Iowa is as an assistant coach and recruiting coordinator (is that the right term for basketball?) I don't think he would be a good fit at Iowa. Heath is a good coach, I just don't see him at Iowa, back in the Big Ten at some point in the future yes, but not at Iowa. Heath would probably get some consideration because he is a Big Ten guy and I believe Iowa would want to hire a Midwest-Big Ten guy but ultimately I don't see him getting the job.

The ultimate question here is in regards to the Iowa job is...does Steve Alford want to coach in the long shadow of his former coach Bobby Knight? That question has ultimately yet to be answered.

How much ownership does Stan Heath feel he has over the Arkansas program? How much ownership does Steve Alford feel he has over the Iowa program?

If both coaches feel like their schools are their programs that they have built then neither the Iowa or Arkansas job will be open at the end of this season. However, the Iowa job is much more likely to be open than the job at Arkansas...we all know that.

 

tacomahog

Quote from: franksbluepills on February 27, 2006, 11:53:45 pm
Here's my top 11 basketball programs in the country.  Which one of these 11 gets kicked out?  Did i leave anybody off that deserves to be in here more than one listed? 

Kansas
Kentucky
Duke
North Carolina
UCONN
Arizona
Illinois
UCLA (only because of incredible history)
Arkansas
Michigan St
Indiana

I would put Syracuse on that list too.

Bigmac

Everyone is talking like Stan will be here for awhile. I got one word for ya - Romana.
If the wife aint happy - nobodies happy, if the husband aint - who cares. I see him making two and or three trips at the best to the dance and then it is adios. He is heading back up north. I wish him luck but from the very beginning is was like putting a sqare peg in a round hole. He is for OJT only. He was not proven when we got him but there was potential. He served his purpose in his hiring. Hopefully the next bball head coach we get won't be an OJT candidate.
Don't get me wrong. I like Stan alot and I think he can continue to take us back to a top 10 eventually and would like to see him stay for a long time but the fit just isn't there IMO.

pseudorabies

Quote from: Bigmac on February 28, 2006, 05:58:47 am
Everyone is talking like Stan will be here for awhile. I got one word for ya - Romana.
If the wife aint happy - nobodies happy, if the husband aint - who cares. I see him making two and or three trips at the best to the dance and then it is adios. He is heading back up north. I wish him luck but from the very beginning is was like putting a sqare peg in a round hole. He is for OJT only. He was not proven when we got him but there was potential. He served his purpose in his hiring. Hopefully the next bball head coach we get won't be an OJT candidate.
Don't get me wrong. I like Stan alot and I think he can continue to take us back to a top 10 eventually and would like to see him stay for a long time but the fit just isn't there IMO.

Bingo! I still think that if Stan can find someone interested in him, he will be on the second train out of town.  Romona will be on the first.

wishyjoshy

Out of the list that is posted, I would remove Michigan St. and Illinois.  I still contend that Michigan St. only became good once Michigan went under the knife with the NCAA.

petro pig

I have been on Stan's butt for the last three years, but I am starting to wonder if he's figured things out.  I'm not sure how I feel about Stan leaving.  If you would have asked me 3 weeks ago I would have helped him pack.  If we can keep this level of play up the rest of the way I say keep him and see what he can do next year.

That being said, I'm sure he would like to get back to the Big Ten.  It would certainly be a step down to go to Iowa though.