What if Arkansas was in the Big XII North?

[BigArkyintheRock]

How many Big XII Championship football games would we have played in since leaving the SWC? How many BCS Bowl games would we have played in? Are we just not good enough to compete year in year out with the best teams of the SEC?

Geographically, we are more similar to the Big XII teams than the SEC teams. Did we make the wrong move in coming to the SEC? Thoughts on moving to the Big XII North?

Discuss among yourselves~

[rtom]

this has been brought up so many times that it has died of old age 27 times....good grief already give the big 12 talk a final resting place

[RazorSAE]

I love playing in the SEC, but I really think it's more advantageous for the UofA to be in the Big XII.  Our recruiting would really benefit.  We most likely won't make the move because there's more money being with the SEC. 

[VoR]

And if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.

Give it a break, we're not in the Big 12 North, and we're not going to be for the forseeable future.

[BigArkyintheRock]

I hear ya. I am just looking at our overall success in the SEC as a football program and wondering outloud. No doubt the SEC is the toughest college football conference in the country.

I'm glad we're in the SEC, but I have to think that if we were in the Big XII North, we'd probably have 5 or more Big XII Championships by now, and probably at least that many BCS Bowl game appearances, and probably one hell of a football program right now, one where a new coach would be begging to come here, and not just using us to get more $ at their current job.

[nightrider388]

Well its not going to happen. For one there are no openings. They arent going to kick someone out to make room for Arkansas. Arkansas has gotten some good bowl bids because of being in the SEC. Just like this years cotton bowl berth. So it can play against you as well as for you. Look at missouri....11 wins and going to cotton...can you imagine arkansas fans if we had 11 wins in the sec and went to cotton?! And as far as recruiting goes, then you are in direct competition with texas, oklahoma...etc...right now, we can still recruit there because arkansas can offer playing in the sec.

[BigArkyintheRock]

I think a team like Baylor or Iowa State will be jumping ship within the next 5 years.

[BustinANutt]

STOP NOW.

Could the Mods make a forum for new people in which this and other topics were permenate and they could all talk about it in circles for years and years.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

How many Big XII Championship football games would we have played in since leaving the SWC? How many BCS Bowl games would we have played in? Are we just not good enough to compete year in year out with the best teams of the SEC?

Geographically, we are more similar to the Big XII teams than the SEC teams. Did we make the wrong move in coming to the SEC? Thoughts on moving to the Big XII North?

Discuss among yourselves~

Let me tell you guys/gals something. There is no intelligent pride in sitting here in the SEC and taking pride in coming in somewhere around the middle most years. Is the SEC a tough conference? No doubt. Most years, the toughest. I don't give a good rip about that. What I care about is the national perception of Arkansas. Do you think that coming in around the middle in the SEC most years gives you greater prominence in the country? No, it doesn't. We are still considered a middle of the pack team, no matter what conference we are in. Now if we want to take pride in being in a tough division, lobby to kick Baylor out of the Big 12 South and take their place. No matter what anyone says, our revenues are not going to change significantly, we will have the competitive challenge we seek in the Big 12 South, we will be able to recruit Texas more effectively, we can renew rivalries year in and out with Texas and Texas A&M, plus, we can back up all that garbage talk about it being the "Little 12" and Arkansas will probably win more games year in and year out and we can forever distance ourselves from Nutt-Bag, unless we choose to play him in a non conference game. Trust me, the Big 12 South will give us all want in terms of competition.

[BigArkyintheRock]

Come on Hog Fans, we just aren't good enough to compete with the best in the SEC.

We are little ol' Arkansas.

Right?

[BigArkyintheRock]

We have never won the SEC Championship in football!

We would be dominating the Big XII North almost every year.

And yep, a move to the Big XII South would surely bring with it some tough competition.

We have already agreed to play Texas A&M for several years. We're almost there.

[Duffer]

You have a choice of playing road games at storied places of:

(A) Oxford, MS; Tuscaloosa, AL; Baton Rouge, LA; Auburn, AL; & Starkville, MS

... OR...

(B) Ames, IA; Columbia, MO; Lincoln, NE; Boulder, CO; Manhatten, KS; & Lawrence, KS.

Come on... it's not even a contest.  As bad as Starkville is, it's a much better atmosphere than Ames, Manhatten, and Lawrence.

Yeah, you'd win more divisional championship "rings" playing in the Big XII North, but there's no pride in that vs. winning them in the SEC West.

[pigmailyen]

And when we're no longer competitive in the Big 12, move to the WAC?  The CAA? 
We could be a real big fish in those ponds.  Shoot, before it's all said and done we could be the State 2-A (West) Champions.

[memphishog]

no big 12.

[nightrider388]

well people lets just join the sunbelt...13-0 every year...what you are saying is ...we should be in a weaker conference so we can win more games. I dont buy that, i think we should stay in the SEC. I dont care what anyone says, you are not going to beat, year end and out, texas, oklahoma, texas am, texas tech, oklahoma state, ... those are all good teams on a regular basis.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

You have a choice of playing road games at storied places of:

(A) Oxford, MS; Tuscaloosa, AL; Baton Rouge, LA; Auburn, AL; & Starkville, MS

... OR...

(B) Ames, IA; Columbia, MO; Lincoln, NE; Boulder, CO; Manhatten, KS; & Lawrence, KS.

Come on... it's not even a contest.  As bad as Starkville is, it's a much better atmosphere than Ames, Manhatten, and Lawrence.

Yeah, you'd win more divisional championship "rings" playing in the Big XII North, but there's no pride in that vs. winning them in the SEC West.

Stop being prideful and startthinking about what is best overall for the program. Forget the Big 12 North, our natural place is in the Big 12 South. That division will give you all you want and more.

[McKnzville]

Duffer...have you ever been to a game in Manhatten? To say that it's not even a contest compared to Ole Miss or Mississippi State is not a very accurate statement. All three stadiums seat around 55-60 K and can get very rowdy. I'm just skeptical to compare strength of the SEC by using teams like Ole Miss, or Mississippi State.

[TNRazorbacker]

Arkansas would be paying Nutt to coach Nebraska.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

well people lets just join the sunbelt...13-0 every year...what you are saying is ...we should be in a weaker conference so we can win more games. I dont buy that, i think we should stay in the SEC. I dont care what anyone says, you are not going to beat, year end and out, texas, oklahoma, texas am, texas tech, oklahoma state, ... those are all good teams on a regular basis.

I'm sorry, but that is not what is being said here at all.......and you know it. Sunbelt? Why don;t you just go to an opposite extreme? You are comparing the Big 12 South to the Sunbelt? You have lost all touch with the reality.

[HouTxRzbck]

The SEC gives us too much money for us to leave.  There is not any incentive to leave the SEC and join the Big 12.  Plus I hate the Big 12.

I'm a Senior

[murtismx]

let's see,  We can compete in basketball in the sec, we can compete in track in the sec, we can compete in baseball in sec, but we can compete in football?  Get a decent coach and we can compete. didn't we compete last year in football but because of coaching at the end we lost the championship? Our problem is who we are targeting for coaches.  Go find the hungry coach who wants to prove himself and we will compete such as a kelly, or a top notch coordinator.  Those shortbus allstars on the hill are the problem with who the want to bring in to coach.  You get a mediocre coach you have a mediocre program.  It is not the conference.

[phoggy]

I'd rather go 8-4 in the toughest conference in the country than go 11-1 in a weak one.

[McKnzville]

The SEC gives us too much money for us to leave.  There is not any incentive to leave the SEC and join the Big 12.  Plus I hate the Big 12.

I'm a Senior

Actually, I think if you really look at the numbers the money isn't that much different. I thought I saw someone post this not too long ago. Could be wrong. Won't be the last time.

[nightrider388]

Well the hole entire thing is pointless. But this whole post is based on an opinion of someone saying we should go to a weaker conference so we could get more wins. I agree 8 wins in sec is better ...we are 8 wins and going to cotton...missouri is 11 wins and going to cotton...thats my only point.

[nightrider388]

I'm sorry, but that is not what is being said here at all.......and you know it. Sunbelt? Why don;t you just go to an opposite extreme? You are comparing the Big 12 South to the Sunbelt? You have lost all touch with the reality.

I have lost all touch with reality? Well you can make it a personal issue if you want. But the REALITY is Arkansas is in the SEC, the REALITY its not going to change anytime soon, and that thats the REALITY.

[NWASooner]

Forgive me for chuckling when I hear people say Arkansas would "dominate" the Big 12 North.  You mean like this year?  Or those two years you won 9 games combined?  Or maybe those year when Kansas State and Nebraska were both Top 10 teams?  Which years would you have "dominated?"  (Remember, the years the North was down were the years Arkansas was sucking.)

In the 10 years of the Big 12, Arkansas would have won the North about 2 or 3 times, which is about the number of times you wont he SEC West.  In the late 90's, Kansas State and Nebraska were monsters.  (Nebraska thumped Tennessee in '98.)  Colorado was also very good.  Meanwhile, you were losing to teams like South Carolina and Ole Miss.  Forgive me for doubting the "domination" claim.

Let's review this topic after you play Missouri.

[HoggySTruman]

Forgive me for chuckling when I hear people say Arkansas would "dominate" the Big 12 North.  You mean like this year?  Or those two years you won 9 games combined?  Or maybe those year when Kansas State and Nebraska were both Top 10 teams?  Which years would you have "dominated?"  (Remember, the years the North was down were the years Arkansas was sucking.)

In the 10 years of the Big 12, Arkansas would have won the North about 2 or 3 times, which is about the number of times you wont he SEC West.  In the late 90's, Kansas State and Nebraska were monsters.  (Nebraska thumped Tennessee in '98.)  Colorado was also very good.  Meanwhile, you were losing to teams like South Carolina and Ole Miss.  Forgive me for doubting the "domination" claim.

Let's review this topic after you play Missouri.

Good points, hard to argue.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I'm sorry, but that is not what is being said here at all.......and you know it. Sunbelt? Why don;t you just go to an opposite extreme? You are comparing the Big 12 South to the Sunbelt? You have lost all touch with the reality.

I have lost all touch with reality? Well you can make it a personal issue if you want. But the REALITY is Arkansas is in the SEC, the REALITY its not going to change anytime soon, and that thats the REALITY.

If you are comparing the Sunbelt to the Big 12, yes, you have lost all touch with reality. Do I need to say it again......or is that clear enough?

[intoxhog]

Let me tell you guys/gals something. There is no intelligent pride in sitting here in the SEC and taking pride in coming in somewhere around the middle most years. Is the SEC a tough conference? No doubt. Most years, the toughest. I don't give a good rip about that. What I care about is the national perception of Arkansas. Do you think that coming in around the middle in the SEC most years gives you greater prominence in the country? No, it doesn't. We are still considered a middle of the pack team, no matter what conference we are in. Now if we want to take pride in being in a tough division, lobby to kick Baylor out of the Big 12 South and take their place. No matter what anyone says, our revenues are not going to change significantly, we will have the competitive challenge we seek in the Big 12 South, we will be able to recruit Texas more effectively, we can renew rivalries year in and out with Texas and Texas A&M, plus, we can back up all that garbage talk about it being the "Little 12" and Arkansas will probably win more games year in and year out and we can forever distance ourselves from Nutt-Bag, unless we choose to play him in a non conference game. Trust me, the Big 12 South will give us all want in terms of competition.

I would like to be in the BIG 12 too Muskogee, however we would be viewed as not being able to hack it in the SEC if we left now. If we ever leave the SEC it should be when we are winning.

[budcampbellfan]

How many Big XII Championship football games would we have played in since leaving the SWC? How many BCS Bowl games would we have played in? Are we just not good enough to compete year in year out with the best teams of the SEC?

Geographically, we are more similar to the Big XII teams than the SEC teams. Did we make the wrong move in coming to the SEC? Thoughts on moving to the Big XII North?

Discuss among yourselves~

What if you moved to Colorado and enjoyed the Big 12 as much as you want?  Discuss with yourself.

[NWASooner]

What if you moved to Colorado and enjoyed the Big 12 as much as you want?  Discuss with yourself.

Maybe you'll "dominate" the Big 12 next year, too, when Missouri and Kansas return virtually their entire teams and you lose almost all your offensive skill players? 

[intoxhog]

Maybe you'll "dominate" the Big 12 next year, too, when Missouri and Kansas return virtually their entire teams and you lose almost all your offensive skill players? 

come on Sooner, even Barry said the Big 12 north sucked all year long.

[nightrider388]

If you are comparing the Sunbelt to the Big 12, yes, you have lost all touch with reality. Do I need to say it again......or is that clear enough?

Well if you could read, i didnt compare the big 12 with the sunbelt... I simply said, if you want a weaker conference to win more, join a sure enough week one...theres nothing weak about texas, oklahoma, nebraska, oklahoma state, texas tech, texas am, missouri, kansas, kansas state, and so on...

[intoxhog]

Well if you could read, i didnt compare the big 12 with the sunbelt... I simply said, if you want a weaker conference to win more, join a sure enough week one...theres nothing weak about texas, oklahoma, nebraska, oklahoma state, texas tech, texas am, missouri, kansas, kansas state, and so on...

there fixed it

[NWASooner]

First off Tennessee won the National Championship in 1998 so your wrong!

Nebraska beat TN 42-17 in the 1998 Orange Bowl.  They ran for 400 yards and shut Peyton Manning down.  Kansas State was also very good in the late 90's and early 2000's.

Once the Big 12 starts to give the have not's a chance buy distributing the money evenly it will be a different story..

Why should the money be divided evenly?  The teams making the money should keep more of it.

[Hogskin]

Let me tell you guys/gals something. There is no intelligent pride in sitting here in the SEC and taking pride in coming in somewhere around the middle most years. Is the SEC a tough conference? No doubt. Most years, the toughest. I don't give a good rip about that. What I care about is the national perception of Arkansas. Do you think that coming in around the middle in the SEC most years gives you greater prominence in the country? No, it doesn't. We are still considered a middle of the pack team, no matter what conference we are in. Now if we want to take pride in being in a tough division, lobby to kick Baylor out of the Big 12 South and take their place. No matter what anyone says, our revenues are not going to change significantly, we will have the competitive challenge we seek in the Big 12 South, we will be able to recruit Texas more effectively, we can renew rivalries year in and out with Texas and Texas A&M, plus, we can back up all that garbage talk about it being the "Little 12" and Arkansas will probably win more games year in and year out and we can forever distance ourselves from Nutt-Bag, unless we choose to play him in a non conference game. Trust me, the Big 12 South will give us all want in terms of competition.

Agree 100%.

[dsewell70]

not only does the Big 12 North suck... we also wouldn't have won a darn thing in that league yet... take whatever pipedream you're smoking about winning the Big 12 North and take a long, deep puff and lay back and be quiet please

[rzrbak4life]

I have posted this before & will continue to do so every time this topic comes up.  If Arkansas ever decides to move into the Big 12, be sure to watch as either Texas or Oklahoma fills our slot in the SEC so fast your head would spin.

If you don't think Texas or Oklahoma would trade places with Arkansas in a minute you're kidding yourself.

Arkansas would then be stuck in a Conference similar to the Southwest Conference.  I for one don't want to go back there.

[AckaBacka]

This issue also splits the state along the same lines.  Eastern and southern Arkansas are more fit for SEC while maybe the north and western areas are closer to the B12. 

[NWASooner]

I love how you know your wrong and had to correct yourself by now saying the 98' orange bowl which would be the 1997 season. You really need to watch what you type.

No, I don't.  That game was on Jan 2., 1998.  The point is Nebraska destroyed them.  It wasn't close yet somehow Arkansas would have won the Big 12 North that year.

If you don't think Texas or Oklahoma would trade places with Arkansas in a minute you're kidding yourself.

No, they wouldn't.  Both OU and Texas make a ton of money in the Big 12.  Why would we leave?  The correct analogy is that the SEC would give it's mother's eternal soul to get Texas. 

[Jellohawg]

We have more pressing issues at hand!

[HawgBallLvr]

 

[Legalsax]

 

That bears repeating.

[hawgdog2005]

if your aunt had ***** she would be your uncle also.   I suppose it is okay to dream but with our old coaching staff we woul still be medicore at best

[FranktheTankk]

First of all why would we be in the Big 12 North?

[antonio65]

  No way I want to be in the Big 12...but if we were we would have been in the BCS multiple times over Nutt's tenure including this year. 

[SpiritHog]

It doesn't matter.  It didn't happen.  We cannot know.  The rest is a waste of my life.  No offense intended.

[BigArkyintheRock]

And now for the other question...

What if Arkansas was in the Big XII South?

Carry on.

[Pa-Paw]

In my opinion Arkansas did indeed make a mistake when it went to the SEC, but I can understand the reasons for leaving. As much as I would love to see happen I'm not sure that Arkansas would be welcomed into the B12. Do you think that Oklahoma or Texas would want to share their recruiting grounds with Arkansas?

[dmac4sainthood]

Is that like being the smartest kid with downs syndrome?