Get Clinton involved in Landing BG

[hoginsanfran]

I prefer biting the bullet and getting the mission done, so there aren't future problems.

Difference in philosophy i guess....


i agree to an extent but what we started out doing in iraq was state building. that takes a relatively short time to achieve, thus we overthrew saddam and created a 'democracy'. now we are trying to undertake nation building. this takes a much longer time. to do it properly takes at least 20 years. we have to teach the radicals and their kids, and their kid's kids that what we are trying to do is not wrong. i just think we started something before we knew exactly what we were getting into. as for clinton learning that doing nothing equals approval, ol' W needs to learn that trying to do to much leads to accomplishing nothing.

no disagreement there... from 1775 (shot heard round the world) until the constitution became law(1789 i think, off the top of my head) was 14 years.  14 years of: WAR, "INSURGENTS" (loyalist traitors), 2 DIFF CONSTITUTIONS (The 'articles' thing), REVOLTS (there were revolts over taxes and farmer revolts).... and yet we turned out okay.  

i think a huge factor is the media's insane spin in covering this war.... the us COMPLETELY destroyed the infrastructure of Japan & Germany.  Firebombing tokyo was more horrible than any atomic bomb, rivers flowing with blood, all that horrible stuff.... but now, who are 2 of the world's richest nations? Japan and Germany.  Who are 2 of our best trading partners? Japan and Germany.  YET, we had OCCUPATIONS of these 2 places for a deacde each directly, and have military bases still to this day (as im sure many on this board are familiar with )

I think in terms of "long term", which is why it frustrates me to see those horrible "code pink" ladies burning effigies of soldiers in oregon last weekend...  yep, burning an effigy of an AMERICAN soldier (gives a new meaning to 'support the troops' lol)..... and the news laps it up

what i mean is, Can you name me the NAME of 10 battles in the iraq war?  5?  or even 1?

when you hear a news story, do they lead with WHO WON THE BATTLE, or do they lead with the death count?  it's a hard subject for sure, as anyone that has lost a loved one in combat can attest to -- but this is the first american war that our media will tell you every gruesome detail of how our soldiers died, where on their bodies they were hit, show pictures of them getting shot at by snipers (thanks CNN), show their coffins...... yet Katie Couric never says "And the Americans took the high ground."   Isn't it odd in a war we don't know who's winning...  we just see pictures of our own dead?  

And please forgive me if that crossed the line, seriously.

[hoginsanfran]

wow outsider... i thought this was a logical debate until you brought up palestinian/AIPAC and the Hopkins lancet study.

point 1- the "lancet" study by "respected" john hopkins has been attacked by LIBERALS and CONSERVATIVES alike... they claim 600K were killed... wanna know what they did?  they interviewed ONE FAMILY per neighborhood and then multipled!

HA!  thats like saying... look at the hogs bball team... 3 white guys and 11 black guys, so Arkansas MUST have only 20% whites!   My dog can do better math!

point 2 - the fact that you even mention AIPAC shows me you ARE som dailykos/demounderground moonbat.   the "innocent" palestinians -- now are you talking about the ones that use C4 for bombs or are you talking about the ones that have a museum at a PUBLIC UNIVERSITY dedicated to a suicide bomber at a Sbarro pizzaria, with murals of shrieking jews?  are you talking about those innocents?   

or maybe you're talking about the innocent palestinians, who have been saying "WE WANT LAND FOR PEACE" -- but even though israel gave them land in 1948, palesintians kept bombing?  or after 1956, more land, no peace?  or even in 73 - gave land, no peace recived!  hmmm i think i see a pattern....  well then jimmy carter stepped in SURELY CARTER could solve it... he convinced israel to give up MORE land in 1978, and even more in 1982... but no peace!

ain't that a kick in the teeth?  so israel evacuated MORE land in 1995 -- no peace!   and even MORE land in 2000 - no peace!  just a second intifada!  and in 2006, after THEIR soldier was kidnapped and their army went to get him, know what the response was : we will give back your soldier when you give up more land!

I feel no sympathy for Palestinians that want me dead

Hey outsiders, can i borrow your copy of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"?  I need to learn to hate like you do! 

[hoginsanfran]

this probably should move to "POLITICS" now... but one more thing before i go....  for your own sake

please, i don't know where you live, but if you EVER leave the university you are at, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't even THINK about mentioning NOAM CHOMSKY as a "support".....  you will be laughed out of any intelligent discusion.  PLEASE for your own sake, don't ever pick up so much as a pamphlet from him...  and please don't bring him up in front of your employer.  If he's political at all he will label you a "moonbat" for life.  Being serious here.. PLEASE avoid any Chomsky references, ever again!

(and the fact that you are clueless that i am separating the rest of sudan from darfur shows me you ought to listen less to george clooney and more to, yknow, the real world)

Night, and this should DEF move to politics.

[rev. tim]

One lied about oral sex.  The other lied about war, bringing on the deaths of over a 100,000 heathens (and Christians alike).   But of course, they don't count for some reason in the hearts of many "Christians."   Poor saps--imagine all the Christians you could have made out of them.  Too bad they were born in the wrong part of the world at the wrong time.  Alas, God works in mysterious ways, eh ya heartless ones?

As Stephen Colbert says, "reality has a liberal bias."

Despite all logic, you believe what you believe.  Continuing to be pre-destined, fate-controlled pawns of much greater forces...

Wow... so in the spirit of the old "JOEL OSTEEN" thread, here is my ranting answer for your Iraq haters........


100,000?  100,000?  surely you are joking!  where do you get your numbers, dailykos? democratic underground?  some other radical site?  do you think about anything rationally or just parrot your extreme liberal freinds?

one question... while america is attempting to yknow, fight back against fundamentalist islam, and how america is being painted as 'the villain', EVERY SINGLE PLACE where the 'old style islam' encounters someone who is DIFFERENT -- death occurs.


google "thailand shadow war, or thailand muslim guerilla....   about 500 christian schoolkids have been beheaded the past few years.  where is that news report?

how about the SUDAN?  4 MILLION BLACK CHRISTIANS dead.  because the rich "fundamentalist muslim" government in the north is fundamentalist muslim... but the black christians in the south, are, well, BLACK and CHRISTIAN.   what a reason to die!   where is your fake outrage about that?

and we're not even talking about Darfur yet.

how about Chechnya?  yknow, the "fundamentalist muslim" part of S. Russia?  remember, how they bombed a movie theather (500? dead), burned down a school (800!! dead, most of those 800 were kids and babies).  heck, now you can't call me 'racist' because these Chechens (fundie muslims bordering someone different you know) are white!

why not google Nigeria?  again, the north is muslim and the south is black african...  guess which side routinely slaughters the other?  guess which side rioted and killed 200 or so because the "Miss World" pageant was  coming to Nigeria?   yep.... Fundie Muslim militias

I don't even need to BEGIN to tell you about Somalia... and how every al qaeda hating human on this earth should be sending fruit baskets to Ethiopa for INVADING somalia earlier this year and kicking some Al Qaeda A#$.   Where's the full coverage on that?

No, no news about Ethiopa DEFEATING muslim terrorists... instead, we watch news about "ISRAEL INVADING LEBANON".  Remember that?  Back last June?  Know why Israel did it?  because one of their soldiers was KIDNAPPED by -- you guessed it! -- fundie muslim terorists (hezbollah).  so while wolf blitzer and CNN are crying for hezbollah, the israeli soldier STILL (march 2007) is being held as a prisoner.

Not to mention the DOZENS killed (including a somali nun whose last words to her beheaders were "I FORGIVE YOU") due to the "CARTOON CONTROVERSY" where Fundie Muslims killed non-Muslims because some Danish cartoonists said Islam is violent.... let me repeat Muslims killed people because they were upset at claims that Muslims are violent


....See, when you get to pulling your head out of the sand, probably when Bush leaves office, when you finally begin to realize that, yknow, bush maybe uninspiring, and Bush may not be the best leader, and he may be a terrible speaker, but he's onto something:  he's the only western leader that realizes the awful truth of fundie islam:  it has to be stopped.  Look at a map.  Draw a circle around "muslim lands".  Whever that line is, there is conflict.     Scary isn't it?



And it wouldnt be a problem over here, except, yknow, we are dying from it:
Our 250 marines (lebanon 1983, again in 1985)
our college kids from syracuse (pan am flight 1988)
our own citizens (twa flight 800)
our attorneys and stockbrokers (world trade center 1993)
our corporate friends again (WTC 2001)
our military minds (pentagon 2001)
our 2 dozen marines (uss cole, december 2000)
olympic atheletes (munich 1972)
our reporters (daniel pearl)
our servicemen abroad (sauditowers)
our contractors (nick berg et al)
our cia agents (attack on CIA, 1993)
our diplomats (attack on US embassy in kenya)
our dipomats, again (attack on us embassy in tanzania)
our servicemen abroard, again, again, again (USO clubs in italy, turkey)
our citizens (wheelchair bound americans thrown overboard because they were 'jew', 1985)

Yeah, i think you can criticize budgets and health insurance and walter reed medical facility and ethics and leaking and hurrican katrina, but for gosh sakes please take your freaking head out of the sand and realize that the west (yknow, where -- unlike saudi or iran -- women CAN drive and gay people aren't HUNG FROM POLES beacuse they're gay? remember that thing we have called freedom?)   when you finally realize the west is getting slaughtered by fundamental islam, you will be cursing presdient obama/hillary for their "dialogues with al qaeda for understanding" and be praying for a new george bush to come in and kick some @#%.

You think because I didn't mention Sudan, I don't care about them?  I was talking about the most relevant topic in my mind, and I only mentioned it at a passing glance (the Iraq War).

I'm certain I've done far more for the Sudan/Darfur situation than you have. 

The problem is that they don't have oil--we all know that.  We're building oil pipelines in Iraq, and Bush/Cheney's corporatocracy is profitting handsomely.  Christianity is nothing but a tool for them to control the sheep into believing the Iraq War is just. 

No, I haven't seen that 500 Thai Christians were killed---neither have I seen that over 100,000 Iraqis have been killed.  That was from a study by Johns Hopkins University (up there with the Ivies in prestige). 

Honestly, I don't give a damn if they're Muslim or Christian.  If people are dying needlessly, then it's wrong.  Andagain, I'm sure we agree here: Fundamentalist Islam is worse than Fundamentalist Christianity.

Honestly, why do you think we're not doing anything about Sudan (I'm not quite sure why you separated Darfur, maybe you can me enlighten me)?  For people like those in this administration, Christianity is a means to an ends--that ends is profit.  I'm not saying it wasn't the same for Clinton; I'm not a Democrat either (but I would say undoubtedly Bush was a much bigger crony). 

Why do you think a former evangelical Christian working for Bush's Faith-based initiative quit, writing a book about how Bush uses Christianity as a tool http://www.amazon.com/Tempting-Faith-Inside-Political-Seduction/dp/0743287126 ?

The way you frame arguments is very simplistic.  For some odd reason, you think that I'm for fundamentalist Islam... This issue has so many layers, it's difficult for me to bother answering for fear that you'll misinterpret it. 

First of all, do you really think that going to war with a fundamentalist Islamic country on false pretenses would decrease tension?  I'm all for squashing the problem in Sudan--a country that is actually fundamentalist.  Under Saddam, Iraq was actually relatively secular (don't misconstrue my statements as saying that I support Saddam or any of that BS).  Only NOW is it becoming fundamentalist since the Shiites are starting to gain a bigger foothold.   

Finally, I'm not sure whether I should even begin posting this or not, since I know it will blow your simplistic mindset.  But I'll do it anyway, and leave it at that.

First of all, the situation in Israel/Palestine is actually much more complicated.  I recommend this video for a primer: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6604775898578139565&q=israel+palestine 

Believe it or not, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) has a huge amount of influence over media coverage in the United States.  No, this isn't some conspiracy that "Jews control the world" or something ridiculous like that.  It just means that they are extremely powerful lobbyists.  The AIPAC has been recently written about in scholarly journal by Harvard professors talking about this influence, and immediately those professors were labeled as "anti-semetic."  You can read about the fallout experienced by Harvard and those professors here: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060515/weiss  

That said, the Palestinian citizens are being above and beyond killed innocently more than Jews.  No, I'm not racist, either.  I go to a fairly prestigious school that is 27% Jewish and I have Jewish friends (it's inevitable).  The Palestinians fight back the only way they can--often that means using less "gentlemanly" forms of warfare, like suicide bombings.  In the video I linked for you, Noam Chomsky (a Jewish Professor at MIT--one of the best universities in the world, up there with harvard in overall prestige) is the main proponent of fairness for Palestinians.

That said, do you think I'm sort of deranged supporter of Islam?  Hell no.  I'm not a deranged supporter of any religion.   Moderate Christianity and Judaism are much more tolerant and progressive religions, and indeed, they have often played positive roles in human development (although, the same could be argued for moderate islam).   

And this here may be the biggest whammy: do you believe every news report you hear?  It's a well known fact, for those academia at least, that the CIA has played often vile roles in the course of history.  Let me give you a simple textbook example:  Dr.  Mossadeq was democratically elected president of Iran in the 50s.  He was a westernized, fairly secular Muslim.  There was one problem: he wanted to nationalize oil in Iran, so that the profits would stop flowing to foreign corporations and that Iran could gain from their own oil.  The CIA didn't like this so much, and he was ousted.  Literally dozens of these examples scatter history; I just remember this one from high school (I went to a good high school). 

You can read about more CIA operations here.  http://www.amazon.com/CIAs-Greatest-Hits-Real-Story/dp/1878825305/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-6217961-6052624?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175048101&sr=1-1

Do not make yourself one of the pawns.  You're right in some of your assessment, but other parts of your assessments are based  on disinformation.

That said, I'm done.  I don't disagree with you on your assessment of the situation in Sudan or wherever, but I feel there's a bigger picture that the majority of people miss.  I hope I didn't throw you into too deep of water to begin with. 

Outsider - Good luck with the polysci classes - you're a walking bibliography of propaganda parading as objectivity. 

Hoginsanfran is handling the heavy work here, but I do have to weigh in on one aspect of your rants - don't pretend for one minute that you have any idea what Evangelical Christians believe, how we vote or what we do for those that suffer around the world.  It's obvious that you've read some things about Evangelicals that reinforce your bigoted presuppositions, but you do not have a clue as to how diverse and complex Evangelicalism is.  It is not the monolith that your sources say it is.  Since you're giving reading and video recommendations, here are a couple of my own - Rediscovering an Evangelical Heritage by Donald Dayton and the movie Amazing Grace, which is in current release.  Start there and then I'll give you some other recommendations.

[cfhogs]

(Outsider - Good luck with the polysci classes - you're a walking bibliography of propaganda parading as objectivity)

i will ask this again? why do some insist that you cant be democrat and christian. i know this is not being said directly, but it is implied. i am a political science major and a christian-baptist. i would hope that my pastor would never assume that by me taking political science and philosophy classes that i am not christian.

[wincrimson]

You guys really think you are going to outbid Saudi Arabia/Bush/Texas A&M?  Good luck with that.

We went up against them with Fran and look where he is.  Of course, I'm no longer interested in trading coaches.

[LZH]

Hide your daughter, Billy!

She may be twelve, but she looks fourteen!

[PIGINAPOKE]

Moses,  I wouldn't want that low-life, lying, treasonous, pro-abortionist, piece
of crap campaigning for hing for us! You need to get this to the political section
where it belongs.

You watched the State of the Union address last month too?

[rev. tim]

(Outsider - Good luck with the polysci classes - you're a walking bibliography of propaganda parading as objectivity)

i will ask this again? why do some insist that you cant be democrat and christian. i know this is not being said directly, but it is implied. i am a political science major and a christian-baptist. i would hope that my pastor would never assume that by me taking political science and philosophy classes that i am not christian.

Maybe you should take some classes in reading comprehension while you study philosophy and political science.  The gist of my post is that outsider's caricature of all Evangelicals as Conservative Republicans is wrong.  Evangelicals are as diverse politically as any other group, if you'll take the time to read.  How did you interpret my post as stating a person can't be a Democrat and a Christian?  I really don't think Jesus gives a flip what your party affiliation is.  I think He's a lot more concerned that we even think that matters in the big scheme of things.

No one is casting any doubt on the sincerity of your Christian faith.  Let me guess, if you live in Fayetteville, do you go to Rolling Hills Baptist Church?  You sound like one of those whiney CBFers.

[elkhog]

One lied about oral sex.  The other lied about war, bringing on the deaths of over a 100,000 heathens (and Christians alike).   But of course, they don't count for some reason in the hearts of many "Christians."   Poor saps--imagine all the Christians you could have made out of them.  Too bad they were born in the wrong part of the world at the wrong time.  Alas, God works in mysterious ways, eh ya heartless ones?

As Stephen Colbert says, "reality has a liberal bias."

Despite all logic, you believe what you believe.  Continuing to be pre-destined, fate-controlled pawns of much greater forces...

Wow... so in the spirit of the old "JOEL OSTEEN" thread, here is my ranting answer for your Iraq haters........


100,000?  100,000?  surely you are joking!  where do you get your numbers, dailykos? democratic underground?  some other radical site?  do you think about anything rationally or just parrot your extreme liberal freinds?

one question... while america is attempting to yknow, fight back against fundamentalist islam, and how america is being painted as 'the villain', EVERY SINGLE PLACE where the 'old style islam' encounters someone who is DIFFERENT -- death occurs.


google "thailand shadow war, or thailand muslim guerilla....   about 500 christian schoolkids have been beheaded the past few years.  where is that news report?

how about the SUDAN?  4 MILLION BLACK CHRISTIANS dead.  because the rich "fundamentalist muslim" government in the north is fundamentalist muslim... but the black christians in the south, are, well, BLACK and CHRISTIAN.   what a reason to die!   where is your fake outrage about that?

and we're not even talking about Darfur yet.

how about Chechnya?  yknow, the "fundamentalist muslim" part of S. Russia?  remember, how they bombed a movie theather (500? dead), burned down a school (800!! dead, most of those 800 were kids and babies).  heck, now you can't call me 'racist' because these Chechens (fundie muslims bordering someone different you know) are white!

why not google Nigeria?  again, the north is muslim and the south is black african...  guess which side routinely slaughters the other?  guess which side rioted and killed 200 or so because the "Miss World" pageant was  coming to Nigeria?   yep.... Fundie Muslim militias

I don't even need to BEGIN to tell you about Somalia... and how every al qaeda hating human on this earth should be sending fruit baskets to Ethiopa for INVADING somalia earlier this year and kicking some Al Qaeda A#$.   Where's the full coverage on that?

No, no news about Ethiopa DEFEATING muslim terrorists... instead, we watch news about "ISRAEL INVADING LEBANON".  Remember that?  Back last June?  Know why Israel did it?  because one of their soldiers was KIDNAPPED by -- you guessed it! -- fundie muslim terorists (hezbollah).  so while wolf blitzer and CNN are crying for hezbollah, the israeli soldier STILL (march 2007) is being held as a prisoner.

Not to mention the DOZENS killed (including a somali nun whose last words to her beheaders were "I FORGIVE YOU") due to the "CARTOON CONTROVERSY" where Fundie Muslims killed non-Muslims because some Danish cartoonists said Islam is violent.... let me repeat Muslims killed people because they were upset at claims that Muslims are violent


....See, when you get to pulling your head out of the sand, probably when Bush leaves office, when you finally begin to realize that, yknow, bush maybe uninspiring, and Bush may not be the best leader, and he may be a terrible speaker, but he's onto something:  he's the only western leader that realizes the awful truth of fundie islam:  it has to be stopped.  Look at a map.  Draw a circle around "muslim lands".  Whever that line is, there is conflict.     Scary isn't it?



And it wouldnt be a problem over here, except, yknow, we are dying from it:
Our 250 marines (lebanon 1983, again in 1985)
our college kids from syracuse (pan am flight 1988)
our own citizens (twa flight 800)
our attorneys and stockbrokers (world trade center 1993)
our corporate friends again (WTC 2001)
our military minds (pentagon 2001)
our 2 dozen marines (uss cole, december 2000)
olympic atheletes (munich 1972)
our reporters (daniel pearl)
our servicemen abroad (sauditowers)
our contractors (nick berg et al)
our cia agents (attack on CIA, 1993)
our diplomats (attack on US embassy in kenya)
our dipomats, again (attack on us embassy in tanzania)
our servicemen abroard, again, again, again (USO clubs in italy, turkey)
our citizens (wheelchair bound americans thrown overboard because they were 'jew', 1985)

Yeah, i think you can criticize budgets and health insurance and walter reed medical facility and ethics and leaking and hurrican katrina, but for gosh sakes please take your freaking head out of the sand and realize that the west (yknow, where -- unlike saudi or iran -- women CAN drive and gay people aren't HUNG FROM POLES beacuse they're gay? remember that thing we have called freedom?)   when you finally realize the west is getting slaughtered by fundamental islam, you will be cursing presdient obama/hillary for their "dialogues with al qaeda for understanding" and be praying for a new george bush to come in and kick some @#%.

+111111

[PIGINAPOKE]

One lied about oral sex.  The other lied about war, bringing on the deaths of over a 100,000 heathens (and Christians alike).   But of course, they don't count for some reason in the hearts of many "Christians."   Poor saps--imagine all the Christians you could have made out of them.  Too bad they were born in the wrong part of the world at the wrong time.  Alas, God works in mysterious ways, eh ya heartless ones?

As Stephen Colbert says, "reality has a liberal bias."

Despite all logic, you believe what you believe.  Continuing to be pre-destined, fate-controlled pawns of much greater forces...

Wow... so in the spirit of the old "JOEL OSTEEN" thread, here is my ranting answer for your Iraq haters........


100,000?  100,000?  surely you are joking!  where do you get your numbers, dailykos? democratic underground?  some other radical site?  do you think about anything rationally or just parrot your extreme liberal freinds?

one question... while america is attempting to yknow, fight back against fundamentalist islam, and how america is being painted as 'the villain', EVERY SINGLE PLACE where the 'old style islam' encounters someone who is DIFFERENT -- death occurs.


google "thailand shadow war, or thailand muslim guerilla....   about 500 christian schoolkids have been beheaded the past few years.  where is that news report?

how about the SUDAN?  4 MILLION BLACK CHRISTIANS dead.  because the rich "fundamentalist muslim" government in the north is fundamentalist muslim... but the black christians in the south, are, well, BLACK and CHRISTIAN.   what a reason to die!   where is your fake outrage about that?

and we're not even talking about Darfur yet.

how about Chechnya?  yknow, the "fundamentalist muslim" part of S. Russia?  remember, how they bombed a movie theather (500? dead), burned down a school (800!! dead, most of those 800 were kids and babies).  heck, now you can't call me 'racist' because these Chechens (fundie muslims bordering someone different you know) are white!

why not google Nigeria?  again, the north is muslim and the south is black african...  guess which side routinely slaughters the other?  guess which side rioted and killed 200 or so because the "Miss World" pageant was  coming to Nigeria?   yep.... Fundie Muslim militias

I don't even need to BEGIN to tell you about Somalia... and how every al qaeda hating human on this earth should be sending fruit baskets to Ethiopa for INVADING somalia earlier this year and kicking some Al Qaeda A#$.   Where's the full coverage on that?

No, no news about Ethiopa DEFEATING muslim terrorists... instead, we watch news about "ISRAEL INVADING LEBANON".  Remember that?  Back last June?  Know why Israel did it?  because one of their soldiers was KIDNAPPED by -- you guessed it! -- fundie muslim terorists (hezbollah).  so while wolf blitzer and CNN are crying for hezbollah, the israeli soldier STILL (march 2007) is being held as a prisoner.

Not to mention the DOZENS killed (including a somali nun whose last words to her beheaders were "I FORGIVE YOU") due to the "CARTOON CONTROVERSY" where Fundie Muslims killed non-Muslims because some Danish cartoonists said Islam is violent.... let me repeat Muslims killed people because they were upset at claims that Muslims are violent


....See, when you get to pulling your head out of the sand, probably when Bush leaves office, when you finally begin to realize that, yknow, bush maybe uninspiring, and Bush may not be the best leader, and he may be a terrible speaker, but he's onto something:  he's the only western leader that realizes the awful truth of fundie islam:  it has to be stopped.  Look at a map.  Draw a circle around "muslim lands".  Whever that line is, there is conflict.     Scary isn't it?



And it wouldnt be a problem over here, except, yknow, we are dying from it:
Our 250 marines (lebanon 1983, again in 1985)
our college kids from syracuse (pan am flight 1988)
our own citizens (twa flight 800)
our attorneys and stockbrokers (world trade center 1993)
our corporate friends again (WTC 2001)
our military minds (pentagon 2001)
our 2 dozen marines (uss cole, december 2000)
olympic atheletes (munich 1972)
our reporters (daniel pearl)
our servicemen abroad (sauditowers)
our contractors (nick berg et al)
our cia agents (attack on CIA, 1993)
our diplomats (attack on US embassy in kenya)
our dipomats, again (attack on us embassy in tanzania)
our servicemen abroard, again, again, again (USO clubs in italy, turkey)
our citizens (wheelchair bound americans thrown overboard because they were 'jew', 1985)

Yeah, i think you can criticize budgets and health insurance and walter reed medical facility and ethics and leaking and hurrican katrina, but for gosh sakes please take your freaking head out of the sand and realize that the west (yknow, where -- unlike saudi or iran -- women CAN drive and gay people aren't HUNG FROM POLES beacuse they're gay? remember that thing we have called freedom?)   when you finally realize the west is getting slaughtered by fundamental islam, you will be cursing presdient obama/hillary for their "dialogues with al qaeda for understanding" and be praying for a new george bush to come in and kick some @#%.

This has to be the most ramble on crap I have ever seen. Has to be kin to Rush. One easy fix here Pal...

Dip all bullets in pigs blood. Let Islam see it done on film. ...No one dies a Martar?

I added up your dead talley....Way less than half of what GWB has under is watch with civilans and military combined.

[cfhogs]

(Outsider - Good luck with the polysci classes - you're a walking bibliography of propaganda parading as objectivity)

i will ask this again? why do some insist that you cant be democrat and christian. i know this is not being said directly, but it is implied. i am a political science major and a christian-baptist. i would hope that my pastor would never assume that by me taking political science and philosophy classes that i am not christian.

Maybe you should take some classes in reading comprehension while you study philosophy and political science.  The gist of my post is that outsider's caricature of all Evangelicals as Conservative Republicans is wrong.  Evangelicals are as diverse politically as any other group, if you'll take the time to read.  How did you interpret my post as stating a person can't be a Democrat and a Christian?  I really don't think Jesus gives a flip what your party affiliation is.  I think He's a lot more concerned that we even think that matters in the big scheme of things.

No one is casting any doubt on the sincerity of your Christian faith.  Let me guess, if you live in Fayetteville, do you go to Rolling Hills Baptist Church?  You sound like one of those whiney CBFers.

no i dont live in the nwa, im  a  future law student in central ar, so i am not one of those 'whiney cbfers?' and i am not picking on you personally, i am just saying alot of people equate being democrat with non christian. you might be one of the ones that dont

[Blue35]

Slick could probably talk BG into coming to Fayetteville. They don't call him slick for nothing.

[rev. tim]

(Outsider - Good luck with the polysci classes - you're a walking bibliography of propaganda parading as objectivity)

i will ask this again? why do some insist that you cant be democrat and christian. i know this is not being said directly, but it is implied. i am a political science major and a christian-baptist. i would hope that my pastor would never assume that by me taking political science and philosophy classes that i am not christian.

Maybe you should take some classes in reading comprehension while you study philosophy and political science.  The gist of my post is that outsider's caricature of all Evangelicals as Conservative Republicans is wrong.  Evangelicals are as diverse politically as any other group, if you'll take the time to read.  How did you interpret my post as stating a person can't be a Democrat and a Christian?  I really don't think Jesus gives a flip what your party affiliation is.  I think He's a lot more concerned that we even think that matters in the big scheme of things.

No one is casting any doubt on the sincerity of your Christian faith.  Let me guess, if you live in Fayetteville, do you go to Rolling Hills Baptist Church?  You sound like one of those whiney CBFers.

no i dont live in the nwa, im  a  future law student in central ar, so i am not one of those 'whiney cbfers?' and i am not picking on you personally, i am just saying alot of people equate being democrat with non christian. you might be one of the ones that dont

OK, sorry for calling you a whiney CBFer - CBF stands for Cooperative Baptist Fellowship - a group that split from the SBC because they were opposed to the "conservative resurgence" in the SBC.  If you ever get tired of studying secular politics read up on denominational politics - it's sooooooooooo much fun.  Best of luck with your studies.

[HogJonesboro]

What, Clinton he's the last man I would want representing Arkansas. You talk about bush killing people what about all abortions made everyday. You never know though but, those abortions could of been flamin liberals that could one day grow up and make this country suck as bad as clinton. If he had a pair he would of taken care of bin laden in the first place.

[Soooie21]

Come to Ark. or end up on my hit list..

[abraHAM_lincoln]

Let's get Bill Clinton involved.  He's a great Arkansas basketball fan...was there rooting for us in the Final Four in 94.  Get Clinton to call BG.  I bet he could get through when Broyles couldn't. 

:razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:

what if BG is a republican?

What if he has a wife and teenage daughter...  I wouldn't want the rapist president near my women..  Besides clintoon is too busy trying to get "her Thighness" elected.