Arkansas Basketball Historically

[hawg66]

Arkansas' great past in basketball has hung around the neck of every Hog coach who has followed Nolan. Looking at the two great runs by Nolan and Eddie the common denominator is a Hall of Fame coach. I like Mike but he's obviously not a Hall of Famer.  Does Arkansas need that kind of coach?  Is he out there and would he come to Fayetteville?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not one who is screaming for change. Just curious about who people think we can get that would return the Hogs to former glory.

[ShadowHawg]

Did Sutton finally get inducted?

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

Right now I'd be thrilled with our first sweet 16 appearance in 20 years.

I don't know if we will ever see a run like we had in the 90s again. The bright side is it makes those hog stars of the 90s bigger than life.

[hawg66]

Did Sutton finally get inducted?

Not sure. But he was a great coach. If he's still not in that's a head scratcher. Maybe the lack of a title.

[ShadowHawg]

Not sure. But he was a great coach. If he's still not in that's a head scratcher. Maybe the lack of a title.

I just looked it up. He is in the College HOF but not the Naismith, FWIW.

[ShadowHawg]

Arkansas' great past in basketball has hung around the neck of every Hog coach who has followed Nolan. Looking at the two great runs by Nolan and Eddie the common denominator is a Hall of Fame coach. I like Mike but he's obviously not a Hall of Famer.  Does Arkansas need that kind of coach?  Is he out there and would he come to Fayetteville?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not one who is screaming for change. Just curious about who people think we can get that would return the Hogs to former glory.

I think the biggest problems with our hires since Nolan was, well, hiring Heath in the first place. I know there are people here who will scream that we hired him because he was black but they are wrong.

Are we really to believe that Heath was the only black coach in America willing to take the job? Please.

Heath had 1 year of head coaching experience. Think about that. We all know about the committee but what we don't know is who they actually interviewed. They hired someone from a pool of candidates from the people they interviewed.

There isn't an established coach in NCAA D1 basketball who is going to openly interview for a CHANCE at your opening.

People, that committee had Porter Moser as one of its finalist.

We quit being a national powerhouse the day we thought we could hand a program that had huge expectations and filled BWA up most of time, over to one out of a pool of coaches who weren't good enough to be scared of publicly pursuing the job without a guarantee of employment.

They hired Heath foremost because he was cheap. Frank and White treated the program as if it were pre and post Sutton era instead of the way a major p5 conference power treated its coaching search.

Basically they got what they paid for, and yes, it was a bonus he was black. But it was just that, a bonus.

[Pork Twain]

Arkansas has shown over a good period of time, what it can do with its program.  But with coaches that quit or are not the right fit, even the best program can look like Texas does in football right now.

[ShadowHawg]

Arkansas has shown over a good period of time, what it can do with its program.  But with coaches that quit or are not the right fit, even the best program can look like Texas does in football right now.

Great analysis. Especially since the world went into time capsule mode 50 years ago and nothing has changed since.

[Pork Twain]

Great analysis. Especially since the world went into time capsule mode 50 years ago and nothing has changed since.

We all need an antagonist that brings nothing else to the table and make us look smarter by comparison.  Thank you for being mine, valentine...

[DLUXHOG]

Arkansas has shown over a good period of time, what it can do with its program.  But with coaches that quit or are not the right fit, even the best program can look like Texas does in football right now.

<1976 - nothing much was cooking, actually pretty dismal.... then Sutton immediately turned the program around......
1976–77 Eddie Sutton 26–2 16–0 1st NCAA First Round
1977–78 Eddie Sutton 32–4 14–2 T-1st NCAA National Semifinal
1978–79 Eddie Sutton 25–5 13–3 T-1st NCAA Regional Final
1979–80 Eddie Sutton 21–8 13–3 2nd NCAA First Round
1980–81 Eddie Sutton 24–8 13–3 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1981–82 Eddie Sutton 23–6 12–4 1st NCAA First Round
1982–83 Eddie Sutton 26–4 14–2 2nd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1983–84 Eddie Sutton 25–7 14–2 2nd NCAA First Round
1984–85 Eddie Sutton 22–13 10–6 2nd NCAA Second Round
1985–86 Nolan Richardson 12–16 4–12 7th N/A
1986–87 Nolan Richardson 19–14 8–8 5th NIT Second Round
1987–88 Nolan Richardson 21–9 11–5 T-2nd NCAA First Round
1988–89 Nolan Richardson 25–7 13–3 1st NCAA Second Round
1989–90 Nolan Richardson 30–5 14–2 1st NCAA National Semifinal
1990–91 Nolan Richardson 34–4 15–1 1st NCAA Elite Eight
1991–92 Nolan Richardson 26–8 13–3 1st NCAA Second Round
1992–93 Nolan Richardson 22–9 10–6 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1993–94 Nolan Richardson 31–3 14–2 1st NCAA National Champion
1994–95 Nolan Richardson 32–7 12–4 T-1st (West) NCAA National Final
1995–96 Nolan Richardson 20–13 9–7 T-2nd (West) NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1996–97 Nolan Richardson 18–14 8–8 2nd (West) NIT Semifinals
1997–98 Nolan Richardson 24–9 11–5 2nd (West) NCAA Second Round
1998–99 Nolan Richardson 23–11 9–7 2nd (West) NCAA Second Round
1999–00 Nolan Richardson 19–15 7–9 3rd (West) NCAA First Round
2000–01 Nolan Richardson 20–11 10–6 2nd (West) NCAA First Round
>2001 - nothing much has happened.....

[Rome26]

Arkansas' great past in basketball has hung around the neck of every Hog coach who has followed Nolan. Looking at the two great runs by Nolan and Eddie the common denominator is a Hall of Fame coach. I like Mike but he's obviously not a Hall of Famer.  Does Arkansas need that kind of coach?  Is he out there and would he come to Fayetteville?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not one who is screaming for change. Just curious about who people think we can get that would return the Hogs to former glory.

Players win basketball games not coaches. When we became average under Nolan, it wasn't because he forgot how to coach, it was because he  didn't recruit at the same level.

[DLUXHOG]

Players win basketball games not coaches. When we became average under Nolan, it wasn't because he forgot how to coach, it was because he  didn't recruit at the same level.

Are you serious?   Nolan took the Hogs to the NCAA dance (NIT twice) every year except for his first and last year (that's to the dance 15 out of 17 years, and FWIW, Sutton did it 9 out of 11 years). Tell me please, when we're the Hogs ever "average " under Nolan, or Eddie's tenure?  Now!....... please.....

[ShadowHawg]

We all need an antagonist that brings nothing else to the table and make us look smarter by comparison.  Thank you for being mine, valentine...

LOL.

Only a completely uneducated person could draw your conclusion..............or an accountant.

Reason being is that life is not a static model. Rules change, competition increases, etc. Expecting a given result on the sole assertion that it happened in the past has no bearing on what will happen going forward.

[Pig in the Pokey]

This season is the most amazing one (besides the 94&95 squads) to me because it was just, idk, CRAZY AF? 1999–00 Nolan Richardson 19–15 7–9 3rd (West) NCAA First Round

[hawg66]

I

[Pork Twain]

LOL.

Only a completely uneducated person could draw your conclusion..............or an accountant.

Reason being is that life is not a static model. Rules change, competition increases, etc. Expecting a given result on the sole assertion that it happened in the past has no bearing on what will happen going forward.

You are doing a great job, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.  I am logging off now, but you go ahead and keep on doing what you are good at.

[Youngsta71701]

Right now I'd be thrilled with our first sweet 16 appearance in 20 years.

I believe we are capable of a couple of wins in the tourney. Gotta make sure we get there first. Go Hogs!! :razorback:

[Youngsta71701]

Looks like Sutton was the best coach in Razorback basketball history. No championship? That's surprising.

[DLUXHOG]

Looks like Sutton was the best coach in Razorback basketball history. No championship? That's surprising.

Very close a couple of times, but alas..... no banana....

[hobhog]

Right now I'd be thrilled with our first sweet 16 appearance in 20 years.

I don't know if we will ever see a run like we had in the 90s again. The bright side is it makes those hog stars of the 90s bigger than life.

It can happen again. Need a little luck with instate talent and right guy coaching.

[hobhog]

Players win basketball games not coaches. When we became average under Nolan, it wasn't because he forgot how to coach, it was because he  didn't recruit at the same level.

Partially disagree there....good coaches can win with less talent. And average coaches can win superior talent.

If you get both a good coach and good players then you really have something.

[ShadowHawg]

You are doing a great job, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.  I am logging off now, but you go ahead and keep on doing what you are good at.

Example for how worthless the past is ...UNLV.

Hey, NYU won both the nit and ncaa in the same season. Think about their potential!

Gary Patterson just ain't getting it done at Tcu either. They won multiple national championships in the past.

I am PT and I am a fart smeller.......

Wait, I mean smart feller.

[hawginbigd1]

Sorry I just think the whole times have changed argument is just dumb. I guess the changing rules etc. is the reason why the Gonzagas, Butlers, Xavier, and Creighton are above average programs, it has nothing to do with coaching or recruiting, it only has to do with rule changes and changing decades! SMDH are you **** serious!!! Wonder if some people carry note cards reminding them to breathe!

[Youngsta71701]

Sorry I just think the whole times have changed argument is just dumb. I guess the changing rules etc. is the reason why the Gonzagas, Butlers, Xavier, and Creighton are above average programs, it has nothing to do with coaching or recruiting, it only has to do with rule changes and changing decades! SMDH are you **** serious!!! Wonder if some people carry note cards reminding them to breathe!

1. There is more talent right now in college basketball than there ever has been. It's just spreaded out more. No dominate team every year like it used to be. (Except for UConn women's basketball, amazing!)

2. The new rules with not being able to play a more aggressive defense allows for freedom of movement for the less athletic players. You can't get away with playing an aggressive in your face defense like you used to could. You can do it but there will be a lot of marching back and forth to the free throw line and a lot of your best players fouling out. That's one reason why a lot of these smaller schools are so much better than they used to be.

[rljjr]

Looks like Sutton was the best coach in Razorback basketball history. No championship? That's surprising.

I'm not sure how old you are, but this link is to the boxscore of one of the most interesting games I've ever watched that Sutton coached, and it included a LOT of 4-corners offense.

http://www.hogstats.com/boxscore.php?date=1979-03-03

[Atlhogfan1]

Example for how worthless the past is ...UNLV.

Hey, NYU won both the nit and ncaa in the same season. Think about their potential!

Gary Patterson just ain't getting it done at Tcu either. They won multiple national championships in the past.

I am PT and I am a fart smeller.......

Wait, I mean smart feller.

Sincerely not looking for an argument or debate with this.

State providing help:  You and I have had this discussion many times but not in a while.  Curious to your thoughts now several seasons into Mike's era.  Transfers back home have really helped make a difference.  This could really be bad without them especially Hannahs.  Harris was a tweener who struggled at times in major conference basketball but he did make a difference occassionaly (UGa in '15).  We know Portis' contribution.  Take away Hannahs and Portis and would this era even still exist?  Madden filled his role servicably.  Monk, Goodwin, Allen if they had chosen to be Hogs.  The upcoming recruits. 

UNLV doesn't have that to fall back on.  Bishop Gorman athletics produces recruits but it isn't like having a state. 

[ShadowHawg]

Sincerely not looking for an argument or debate with this.

State providing help:  You and I have had this discussion many times but not in a while.  Curious to your thoughts now several seasons into Mike's era.  Transfers back home have really helped make a difference.  This could really be bad without them especially Hannahs.  Harris was a tweener who struggled at times in major conference basketball but he did make a difference occassionaly (UGa in '15).  We know Portis' contribution.  Take away Hannahs and Portis and would this era even still exist?  Madden filled his role servicably.  Monk, Goodwin, Allen if they had chosen to be Hogs.  The upcoming recruits. 

UNLV doesn't have that to fall back on.  Bishop Gorman athletics produces recruits but it isn't like having a state.

It's a different era now. In the past, there really weren't that many good transfers. Nolan never accepted a transfer from another D1 program. Today, Gonzaga is starting 3 transfers.

Transfers are a huge part of college basketball these days, and personally I hate it. We have been fortunate to have 2 guys from our state who came back. No doubt.

In state talent, well if Corliss and Joe Johnson didn't come here, would Nolan coached as long as he did? I think it stinks when folks try to downplay that we are now landing the in state kids given that since Joe, the only difference makers to stay at Arkansas are Brewer and Portis. The program missed James Anderson, Archie Griffin, Kevaughn Allen, and Monk. So to me, winning with kids from this state shouldn't take anything away from what gets accomplished around here.

I mean when was the last time anyone said that Nolan just got lucky because Corliss was from Arkansas or Sutton's run to the final 4 was illegitimate because the Tripletts were from Arkansas? The shame of it to me is that this program was in such bad shape that when Portis rolled around, we couldn't put enough talent around him to make a huge run the way Sutton and Nolan were. Sutton's job being easier given he had 3 play makers from inside this state. As a matter of fact that was Sutton's zenith as our coach. Does it lessen anyone's opinion about Sutton that he founded this program on the greatest haul of in state talent in our state's history? It shouldn't.

[Atlhogfan1]

It's a different era now. In the past, there really weren't that many good transfers. Nolan never accepted a transfer from another D1 program. Today, Gonzaga is starting 3 transfers.

Transfers are a huge part of college basketball these days, and personally I hate it. We have been fortunate to have 2 guys from our state who came back. No doubt.

In state talent, well if Corliss and Joe Johnson didn't come here, would Nolan coached as long as he did? I think it stinks when folks try to downplay that we are now landing the in state kids given that since Joe, the only difference makers to stay at Arkansas are Brewer and Portis. The program missed James Anderson, Archie Griffin, Kevaughn Allen, and Monk. So to me, winning with kids from this state shouldn't take anything away from what gets accomplished around here.

I mean when was the last time anyone said that Nolan just got lucky because Corliss was from Arkansas or Sutton's run to the final 4 was illegitimate because the Tripletts were from Arkansas? The shame of it to me is that this program was in such bad shape that when Portis rolled around, we couldn't put enough talent around him to make a huge run the way Sutton and Nolan were. Sutton's job being easier given he had 3 play makers from inside this state. As a matter of fact that was Sutton's zenith as our coach. Does it lessen anyone's opinion about Sutton that he founded this program on the greatest haul of in state talent in our state's history? It shouldn't.

"winning with kids from this state shouldn't take anything away from what gets accomplished around here"  - It doesn't.  Wasn't why I asked your thoughts.

It was more to how difficult it is to win at Arkansas and what can be accomplished.  Of course, can't rely solely on in state.  If a coach is fortunate enough to be at Arkansas when the state of offering help, it should help their level of success if they can recruit them successfully.  Or now bring them back. 

Agree on how transient college basketball has become. 

[jabberjawls]

It's a different era now. In the past, there really weren't that many good transfers. Nolan never accepted a transfer from another D1 program. Today, Gonzaga is starting 3 transfers.

Transfers are a huge part of college basketball these days, and personally I hate it. We have been fortunate to have 2 guys from our state who came back. No doubt.

In state talent, well if Corliss and Joe Johnson didn't come here, would Nolan coached as long as he did? I think it stinks when folks try to downplay that we are now landing the in state kids given that since Joe, the only difference makers to stay at Arkansas are Brewer and Portis. The program missed James Anderson, Archie Griffin, Kevaughn Allen, and Monk. So to me, winning with kids from this state shouldn't take anything away from what gets accomplished around here.

I mean when was the last time anyone said that Nolan just got lucky because Corliss was from Arkansas or Sutton's run to the final 4 was illegitimate because the Tripletts were from Arkansas? The shame of it to me is that this program was in such bad shape that when Portis rolled around, we couldn't put enough talent around him to make a huge run the way Sutton and Nolan were. Sutton's job being easier given he had 3 play makers from inside this state. As a matter of fact that was Sutton's zenith as our coach. Does it lessen anyone's opinion about Sutton that he founded this program on the greatest haul of in state talent in our state's history? It shouldn't.

Of course you give no credit to coaching up and developing talent or "in game" adjustments, or running an offense or using the correct defense. See what we are saying, yet?

[FrankCourtneyNicodemus]

Arkansas has shown over a good period of time, what it can do with its program.  But with coaches that quit or are not the right fit, even the best program can look like Texas does in football right now.

This was an interesting graph, but i especially appreciated your kindergarten and high school graduation components haha..

That aside, what's with the football -> basketball comparison?

That aside, are you the author of the serenity prayer, also are you abe lincoln, as your signature suggests?

[12247]

Being nearly elite in BB didn't just happen once, it happened for a quarter century for us after being BAD forever before that.  It happened with a white coach and then a black coach.  It happened with terrible facilities and then great facilities.

I nearly choke on this but it also happened when we were in a better conference than we are now in, in my opinion.  I believe the old SWC had better BB than the current SEC, could be wrong.

We need an entire program that really cares, starting with the Administration.  Most of us bitched about Frank nosing into the programs but Long appears to not even glance over that way.  We are living proof that you cannot just hire what appears to be a good coach and walk away.  Most folks need goals that the Leadership sets and then be reasonably expect to meet those goals.

Until we get a coach that knows he is expected to produce champions and that the Administration expects it and that the contract is structured with bonuses for success in wins, GPA, Recruiting, etc. we will be only as good as the HC desires to work.  We currently have football and basketball coaches that were paid totally based on what they did at other schools.  Its like we are giving bonuses for the good work they did somewhere else.  I hope Whisky, UAB and MO appreciate our generous payout on their behalf. 

I would like to have coaches who would take a reasonable, yet generous salary with great incentives, like an additional 2 million per year for success in the areas that make up a great successful coach.

[ShadowHawg]

"winning with kids from this state shouldn't take anything away from what gets accomplished around here"  - It doesn't.  Wasn't why I asked your thoughts.

It was more to how difficult it is to win at Arkansas and what can be accomplished.  Of course, can't rely solely on in state.  If a coach is fortunate enough to be at Arkansas when the state of offering help, it should help their level of success if they can recruit them successfully.  Or now bring them back. 

Agree on how transient college basketball has become.

Sorry, I see.

I think winning at Arkansas at a high level has always been near to impossible without significant in state talent. By significant, I mean a play maker.

Historically, we have very few teams that performed at a high level and didn't have an arkansas kid that was a play maker. The Tripletts morphed into Super Sid's team, who turned it over to US Reed, while it wasn't his team Keith Peterson would go on to the NBA and Darrell Walker although from Chicago came from Westark in Fort Smith, after Walker exits Ballentine(Newport) and Ricky Norton (Arkadelphia) both start, the next year is Sutton's last season and 2 starters are from in state (Ballentine and Allie Freeman) with McDAA Andrew Lang (Pine Bluff) coming off the bench.

Nolan's first NCAA team was centered around Andrew Lang with Allie Freeman still starting. Nolan broke the mold of needing in state talent with May/Day......sort of. Mayberry was the man's god son after all. May-o-Day handed it off to Corliss. Corliss left and so did the state's best player, Quincy Lewis to Minn. Minn goes to the final four with Lewis, Arkansas goes down hill after 96 and returns to the tournament with a 24 win season where 4 different Arkansas kids contribute a total of 16ppg. Next season (98-99) Arkansas kids contribute around 18ppg but no difference makers, 99-00 sees the introduction of Joe Johnson and a first ever SEC tournament win, another NCAA with Joe, Joe goes as does Nolan. Heath's best team was led by in state players Brewer and Modica, his next best team was led by Sonny Weems as was Pel's, Pel and Heath both waste Michael Washington

It has been vital to Arkansas' historical success to have an Arkansas born play maker on them. There were probably less than 5 teams total since Sutton took over here that were decent without an Arkansas guy.

That's why the Heath/Pel eras hurt so bad. They took us so low that the kids who grew playing at elementary schools, boys clubs, etc weren't pretending to be Hog.

The losses of Anderson, Goodwin, and Monk were significant blows to this program when looking at our history and the incoming classes are also significant. It seems we never replace an in state kid we lose with talent of the same level.

I would say there is a close correlation to in state talent and success, in all sports at out University.

[ShadowHawg]

Of course you give no credit to coaching up and developing talent or "in game" adjustments, or running an offense or using the correct defense. See what we are saying, yet?

You can't polish a turd regardless of what you may believe.

[Atlhogfan1]

Sorry, I see.

I think winning at Arkansas at a high level has always been near to impossible without significant in state talent. By significant, I mean a play maker.

Historically, we have very few teams that performed at a high level and didn't have an arkansas kid that was a play maker. The Tripletts morphed into Super Sid's team, who turned it over to US Reed, while it wasn't his team Keith Peterson would go on to the NBA and Darrell Walker although from Chicago came from Westark in Fort Smith, after Walker exits Ballentine(Newport) and Ricky Norton (Arkadelphia) both start, the next year is Sutton's last season and 2 starters are from in state (Ballentine and Allie Freeman) with McDAA Andrew Lang (Pine Bluff) coming off the bench.

Nolan's first NCAA team was centered around Andrew Lang with Allie Freeman still starting. Nolan broke the mold of needing in state talent with May/Day......sort of. Mayberry was the man's god son after all. May-o-Day handed it off to Corliss. Corliss left and so did the state's best player, Quincy Lewis to Minn. Minn goes to the final four with Lewis, Arkansas goes down hill after 96 and returns to the tournament with a 24 win season where 4 different Arkansas kids contribute a total of 16ppg. Next season (98-99) Arkansas kids contribute around 18ppg but no difference makers, 99-00 sees the introduction of Joe Johnson and a first ever SEC tournament win, another NCAA with Joe, Joe goes as does Nolan. Heath's best team was led by in state players Brewer and Modica, his next best team was led by Sonny Weems as was Pel's, Pel and Heath both waste Michael Washington

It has been vital to Arkansas' historical success to have an Arkansas born play maker on them. There were probably less than 5 teams total since Sutton took over here that were decent without an Arkansas guy.

That's why the Heath/Pel eras hurt so bad. They took us so low that the kids who grew playing at elementary schools, boys clubs, etc weren't pretending to be Hog.

The losses of Anderson, Goodwin, and Monk were significant blows to this program when looking at our history and the incoming classes are also significant. It seems we never replace an in state kid we lose with talent of the same level.

I would say there is a close correlation to in state talent and success, in all sports at out University.

Yes there is a close correlation. 

We've missed some in state going back decades.  Memphis State poached a few.  Oliver to Purdue.  AU and Ok St.  The state will provide help occasionally.  Have to keep it home. 

Once Mike gets it going with the in state crew, think he will be able to expand his reach?

[hamARchy in the USA]

Every program, not just Arkansas, needs a great coach if it expects to do or continue to do great things.  Asking who Arkansas could get really is asking who Jeff Long could get.

Excellent coaches are out there if they can be identified.  Consider the Mike White hire at Florida.  Last year he took over a team that had gone 16-17 overall and 8-10 in the conference the previous year.  In this, White's second year, he has his team playing for the SEC title.  One might add that he's benefited from the in state talent ... from Arkansas.

[Pork Twain]

Example for how worthless the past is ...UNLV.

Hey, NYU won both the nit and ncaa in the same season. Think about their potential!

Gary Patterson just ain't getting it done at Tcu either. They won multiple national championships in the past.

I am PT and I am a fart smeller.......

Wait, I mean smart feller.

You are correct, great teams never stay great and once a great team has fallen, it can never return to greatness, as it has shown that it can never be great.  You are doing great.  Just look at Alabama when Shula was there or the Hurricanes after Johnson, and the Tarheels after Dean Smith.  Should have just turned off the lights and shut the program down.   Then there are crazy people like Few at Gonzaga, doesn't he know that a team that was never great in the first place, much less one that was once great a mere 20 years ago, can never be great?  He needs to just hang it up.

[Pork Twain]

This was an interesting graph, but i especially appreciated your kindergarten and high school graduation components haha..

That aside, what's with the football -> basketball comparison?

That aside, are you the author of the serenity prayer, also are you abe lincoln, as your signature suggests?

I put those dates in there so it was clear why I am so depressed about what we have had for the last 20 years.  The teams I watched all of my young life were pretty darned good and a couple years after I joined the AF, it all went to shirt.

I don't compare football and basketball directly but in a general sense you can compare almost anything as long as when you are comparing them, you compare them vs their peers and not each other.

Yes that is why I took credit for little known sayings that nobody on here could have ever heard of.

Seriously though, they were both supposed to be Mark Twain (Pork Twain) quotes, but I deleted them a while back and mistakenly pasted the Serenity Prayer in there instead of the quote I just put back.  That would have been there forever if you had not said anything.

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt . -- George Eliot

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.-- Abraham Lincoln (also attr. Confucius)

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.-- Mark Twain (1835-1910)

Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. -- Bible, 'Proverbs' 17:28.

[Youngsta71701]

You can't polish a turd regardless of what you may believe.

Question. What turd is he polishing?

[Pork Twain]

Sorry, I see.

I think winning at Arkansas at a high level has always been near to impossible without significant in state talent. By significant, I mean a play maker.

Historically, we have very few teams that performed at a high level and didn't have an arkansas kid that was a play maker. The Tripletts morphed into Super Sid's team, who turned it over to US Reed, while it wasn't his team Keith Peterson would go on to the NBA and Darrell Walker although from Chicago came from Westark in Fort Smith, after Walker exits Ballentine(Newport) and Ricky Norton (Arkadelphia) both start, the next year is Sutton's last season and 2 starters are from in state (Ballentine and Allie Freeman) with McDAA Andrew Lang (Pine Bluff) coming off the bench.

Nolan's first NCAA team was centered around Andrew Lang with Allie Freeman still starting. Nolan broke the mold of needing in state talent with May/Day......sort of. Mayberry was the man's god son after all. May-o-Day handed it off to Corliss. Corliss left and so did the state's best player, Quincy Lewis to Minn. Minn goes to the final four with Lewis, Arkansas goes down hill after 96 and returns to the tournament with a 24 win season where 4 different Arkansas kids contribute a total of 16ppg. Next season (98-99) Arkansas kids contribute around 18ppg but no difference makers, 99-00 sees the introduction of Joe Johnson and a first ever SEC tournament win, another NCAA with Joe, Joe goes as does Nolan. Heath's best team was led by in state players Brewer and Modica, his next best team was led by Sonny Weems as was Pel's, Pel and Heath both waste Michael Washington

It has been vital to Arkansas' historical success to have an Arkansas born play maker on them. There were probably less than 5 teams total since Sutton took over here that were decent without an Arkansas guy.

That's why the Heath/Pel eras hurt so bad. They took us so low that the kids who grew playing at elementary schools, boys clubs, etc weren't pretending to be Hog.

The losses of Anderson, Goodwin, and Monk were significant blows to this program when looking at our history and the incoming classes are also significant. It seems we never replace an in state kid we lose with talent of the same level.

I would say there is a close correlation to in state talent and success, in all sports at out University.

As much as it pains me, this is a darned fine post.  It also indicates that you might indeed be trolling me.

[Pork Twain]

Yes there is a close correlation. 

We've missed some in state going back decades.  Memphis State poached a few.  Oliver to Purdue.  AU and Ok St.  The state will provide help occasionally.  Have to keep it home. 

Once Mike gets it going with the in state crew, think he will be able to expand his reach?

I used to hate playing Ole Miss back in the Nolan days because it seemed like they always snuck in and got a couple of Arkansas kids that played great for them

[redleg]

Players win basketball games not coaches. When we became average under Nolan, it wasn't because he forgot how to coach, it was because he  didn't recruit at the same level.

I think Nolan became disenchanted after the NCAA dismantled his 1996-97 #1 recruiting class with petty sanctions and transfer rule "violations", or whatever the hell it was. The NCAA really went after Nolan and the Hogs! It was disgusting. I think Nolan just said "to hell with it" for a few years, and by the time he got back into the swing of things as far as recruiting goes, it was too late, and then he challenged Broyles publicly and lost his job.
:razorback:

[ErieHog]

Not sure. But he was a great coach. If he's still not in that's a head scratcher. Maybe the lack of a title.

The lack of character.

[BannerMountainMan]

Are you serious?   Nolan took the Hogs to the NCAA dance (NIT twice) every year except for his first and last year (that's to the dance 15 out of 17 years, and FWIW, Sutton did it 9 out of 11 years). Tell me please, when we're the Hogs ever "average " under Nolan, or Eddie's tenure?  Now!....... please.....

so NIT under Nolan is better than average but then when Anderson makes it it shouldn't be relevant. Please your a joke

[ShadowHawg]

Yes there is a close correlation. 

We've missed some in state going back decades.  Memphis State poached a few.  Oliver to Purdue.  AU and Ok St.  The state will provide help occasionally.  Have to keep it home. 

Once Mike gets it going with the in state crew, think he will be able to expand his reach?

Sorry, hadn't been on in a while.

It took a NC for Nolan to routinely bring in guys from outside the region who weren't Jucos. Sutton had a pipeline to Chicago at one time.

Heath was able to capitalize on the program name for a while and reach beyond our borders. I will add this about Heath and what he added to the school name as well, I had the chance to get to know Weems personally, for a short time, and asked him about Heath and he loved the man. I asked him specifically if he was a big part of his recruiting process and he said absolutely that the guy was strong.

I have also been around MA some, not as a friend, but played some ball with him from time to time at the U of A when he was an assistant. I never saw him lose a pickup game. I was on his team one night and 3 track guys come in and start running with 2 other good young athletes at the HYPER. It was MA, me, a girl, a 5'10" white guy with a knee brace that looked more like a prosthesis than a brace, and another guy that was so unremarkable I can't even remember what he looked like. We got dunked on, shots swatted, etc and still won. Not because MA went crazy on them but because MA's competitive drive was infectious. The girl and the guy with the knee brace were scoring on these guys. We ran them off the court twice.

I thought that the girl and dudes were good so I let them run with me next time I saw them. They sucked..........bad.

I think that if MA can get to the 2018 kids, then the rep of our program will be restored enough that we will begin being a real player for top talent in our region again. The U of A is never going to be a program that can expect to land top out of region/state talent each season. It should happen with some regularity (not 5 years between), but not be counted on. I think that has been true for all our coaches since Eddie was hired.

Right now, regardless of who was hired 6 seasons ago, they are currently selling top end real estate relative to its' own market, which happens to be in a ghost town. Lots of pretty old buildings to look at but no people in them.

It's easy to sell the past as long as there is still a connection to it. That's why we fans believe so hard in our program. Most of us were here when the past was fresh. We are connected and have a hard time seeing how others aren't or shouldn't be.

When MA got here I thought that things would just pick right back up because he could BE the bridge to make the past real to recruits and fans in the present. I felt like the program would come back to life. Instead, we become the last program in a FOOTBALL conference to get a basketball practice facility and this only happens after the AD has to go public with the fact that there is a problem getting anyone in the program to fund the thing. Meanwhile the coach is trying to sell "big time" recruits at home and abroad on our tradition, what we can be, blah, blah while that is going on and people are acting like the coach is the issue.

Now that the facility has been built, BP and Qualls made some highlights, we are landing the top in state kids. It's not a coincidence. Justice Hill has been a god send with the 2018 bunch as well, but he committed SO early because he and Fitz love MA and the University. The best closers for recruiting in your program are your current players.

Bottom line on MA is that this program will be a blast again if he can finish strong the rest of this year.

[PonderinHog]

I'm not sure how old you are, but this link is to the boxscore of one of the most interesting games I've ever watched that Sutton coached, and it included a LOT of 4-corners offense.

http://www.hogstats.com/boxscore.php?date=1979-03-03

Ha!  I knew that was the game you were referencing!  Talk about intense!

[DLUXHOG]

Y'all just don't get it... Arkansas was top 10 for 20+ years....