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March 29, 2024, 12:53:41 am

Phony war heroes

Started by bellavistamike, August 23, 2008, 09:45:34 am

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bellavistamike

Guys:

While I am not a vet, I am the son of a career Navy Seabee who served 30 years in service. My dad did a tour in Korea in 1951 and two tours in Vietnam in the 60s and 70s.  I was raised on bases all over the planet and I am somewhat in tune to vet issues.

The Dallas Morning News has a story today about the state cracking down on phony war heroes who are getting special license plates designed for war heros who have received high commendations. It is a story that truly p*isses me off! There should be a special punishment for jerks like this! It is one thing to brag in a bar somewhere when you're drunk, but it is a different thing to advertise to the world that you are a hero when you are nothing but a liar! That is disgraceful!

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/082308dntexlicense.43e0be0.html

Razorvet

The awards after the first Afgan deployment were given out straight across rank lines. This wasnt the first time I have seen this. A private who performs bravely under fire gets an Arcom and a Master Sgt who had to be given a desk job because he was too scared to patrol is given a bronze star. Dont believe the hype. E1-E4= AAm or ArCom. E5-E7 or Bars=MSM, E8+orO4+=bronze. Its too bad really. Those medals might actually help some of the brave young men get promoted to a rank that they could set a good example for thier soldiers but instead the good Ole boy system prevails. I would have traded every coin and medal I ever recieved for a Xmas bonus. Just enough to get the kids something nice. Im proud of the service men and women who do thier duty but the medal system has become a joke.

 

Ragnar Hogbrok

I was awarded the Bronze Star Medal while an E-4 in Afghanistan for a night I don't wish to discuss on a message board, but you guys are right about the rank thing.  I was recommended the BSM by the surgical team for what me and another medic did when our patrol was ambushed.  Without getting into the details that will bring back the memories, we lost one soldier and the other was fading quickly.  Well, what me and the other medic did bought him enough time to make it to Kandahar via Blackhawk and get into surgery to repair his collapsed lung.

Moral of the story, when the first sergeant of the infantry company I was in heard about us being recommended for BSMs, he went irate.  Wondering aloud if we truly deserved them.  He thought he had put a stop to the BSMs.  Buuuut, 173rd Airborne Brigade was the recommending and approving authority and we were in the 82nd.  So, they gave us the BSMs anyway, but we had to keep it hush-hush to keep shiite from hitting the fan.

Oh, and the first sergeant?  He got a BSM for showing up in Afghanistan. 

In 2003 in Iraq, the policy was E-7s and above got BSMs as deployment awards.  It didn't matter if you were a Fobbit NCO behind a desk or the S-1 captain who did the same.

Award policies need to be looked at and changed.  Now that I'm a Warrant Officer (former NCO), maybe I can help the next generation of commissioned officers make better decisions about the awards process.  I'll sure try, anyway.
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." ― H.L. Mencken

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bellavistamike

Interesting. My dad did two tours in Nam building roads with the Seabees and built runways in Korea in the ealry 50s. He retired as an e-9 with 30 years of service and a chest full of medals. I do think he earned them but I don't believe he thought he did too many heroic things. Doing your job is just that old school approach. I've been in a room with 115 CMA winners and I know each of them thought the others were heroes but most didn't think that about themselves. I'm proud of all who served, for those who did (and do) their duty, and for all of the many heroes who've come out of these messes we send our young (and not so young) men and women!

Razorvet

Ive earned a medal for helping to transition soldiers from 91 b/c to the new 91w mos. It was the stupidest thing Ive ever seen. I didnt even have to work weekends. I was recommended after a night in a delivery room in Heidelberg where I did something I never though I was capable of. The infant lived and thrived. It was denied. I did get a coin from the CSM of the hospital and the MP battalion the mother of the infant belonged to. Im very proud of those coins. The CSM has to pay for those out his pocket so I figure I must really have earned it.

hogginbama

Quote from: Razorvet on September 08, 2008, 08:47:37 pm
Ive earned a medal for helping to transition soldiers from 91 b/c to the new 91w mos. It was the stupidest thing Ive ever seen. I didnt even have to work weekends. I was recommended after a night in a delivery room in Heidelberg where I did something I never though I was capable of. The infant lived and thrived. It was denied. I did get a coin from the CSM of the hospital and the MP battalion the mother of the infant belonged to. Im very proud of those coins. The CSM has to pay for those out his pocket so I figure I must really have earned it.

Those coins sometimes mean more than that piece of paper that says ARCOM, AAM and such. I have a collection that each hold a story and will never be traded or lost. Each move finds them in my truck, in my possession and no where near the movers. Glad to see there are fellow medics on here too. I spent 10 years as a medic before I got into recruiting. I was one of the old school 91A's, then became a 91B. Missed the transistion to 91W and now 68W.
My ole buddy Biscuit has crossed that rainbow bridge. Life sure is different without him around.

RoboRazor

More importantly, I think the promotion system (enlisted) needs a serious overhaul.

hogginbama

September 09, 2008, 08:59:30 am #7 Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 09:08:40 am by hogginbama
Quote from: RoboRazor on September 09, 2008, 08:33:02 am
More importantly, I think the promotion system (enlisted) needs a serious overhaul.

Agree 100%, just like the civilian sector, it is riddled with holes from the "good ole boy" system.

Also, WO Craig, try spending 8 years with a Battalion, numerous times lauded as the top recruiter, station commander and such in the Battalion and Brigade. 3 years as a detailed recruiter brought 2 years as top recruiter in the BN, both times in the Brigade top 3. 5 years as a station commander in 3 different stations, each one increased their previous mission accomplishment and all three exceeded 100% mission success under my guidance. My PCS award was downgraded from an Meritorious Service Medal to an Army Commendation. To make matters worse, the Battalion Commander sit on it until after I left and they mailed it to me at my home. Can you imagine the phone call I got when it was received back at the commanders office with "return to sender I would rather wipe my ass with this write up than accept it". The explanation was that this Bn Commander policy was that he would only recommend approval for an MSM for Officers in his command, enlisted received an Arcom at best.

No where in the regs does it state that an award is based on rank. To many times the powers that be get caught up in that aspect and are afraid if someone lower than them in rank receives a higher award, then they may get passed on the promotion list.
My ole buddy Biscuit has crossed that rainbow bridge. Life sure is different without him around.

riccoar

I remember a young airman E-4 who's detail was driver for a General in USAFE who got a MSM when that job finished for him.

I also remember people in the Khobar Tower bombings who were several blocks away and received contusions or whiplash and received the Purple Heart.  And no I'm no kidding, it happened.

Old Tusk

I recieved a ARCOM for flying the Gov of Tennessee and a bunch of rich Republican contributors to Bulgaria. I did deserve it because I didn't cause any of them to spill their drink. When you are on the "cutting edge of freedom" you have to do what you can.
The Democrats are the party that says government can make you richer, smarter, taller and get the crabgrass out of our lawn. Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, and then they get elected and prove it....P.J. O'Rourke

Razorvet

Quote from: Old Tusk on September 12, 2008, 10:11:26 pm
I recieved a ARCOM for flying the Gov of Tennessee and a bunch of rich Republican contributors to Bulgaria. I did deserve it because I didn't cause any of them to spill their drink. When you are on the "cutting edge of freedom" you have to do what you can.

I agree. If you can stand to fly on a plane with a politician and not consider taking it into the dirt you deserve a medal.

Old Tusk

You are right. Probably my most courageous act.
The Democrats are the party that says government can make you richer, smarter, taller and get the crabgrass out of our lawn. Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, and then they get elected and prove it....P.J. O'Rourke

H&D

Quote from: riccoar on September 12, 2008, 12:45:50 am
I remember a young airman E-4 who's detail was driver for a General in USAFE who got a MSM when that job finished for him.

I also remember people in the Khobar Tower bombings who were several blocks away and received contusions or whiplash and received the Purple Heart.  And no I'm no kidding, it happened.

I had a supervisor (SSgt Air Force) that had received a Purple Heart for a bruised elbow he got after being thrown against a wall during the bombing.  He never wore it while in uniform.  He just simply wore his function badge and no other ribbons while in Blues (back when it was all or none).
\\\"Camp Sather 2003\\\"

 

hogginbama

Quote from: HawgsandDawgs on December 17, 2008, 12:20:46 am
I had a supervisor (SSgt Air Force) that had received a Purple Heart for a bruised elbow he got after being thrown against a wall during the bombing.  He never wore it while in uniform.  He just simply wore his function badge and no other ribbons while in Blues (back when it was all or none).

Reminds me of a young man I enlisted into the Army as an MP. His second tour to the sand box resulted in him being stabbed while trying to squelch a riot breaking out during the first round of elections over there. He has now been out of the Army for 2.5 years and has yet to see his purple heart. He did get a letter of commendation for keeping good order and discipline though.
My ole buddy Biscuit has crossed that rainbow bridge. Life sure is different without him around.

RazorWeevil

Quote from: HawgsandDawgs on December 17, 2008, 12:20:46 am
I had a supervisor (SSgt Air Force) that had received a Purple Heart for a bruised elbow he got after being thrown against a wall during the bombing.  He never wore it while in uniform.  He just simply wore his function badge and no other ribbons while in Blues (back when it was all or none).

I knew a guy that was in proximity of a mortar that landed & it busted his eardrum.  He got a Purple Heart. 

:razorback:
Insanity is hereditary.  I got mine from my kids.

H&D

Quote from: RazorWeevil on February 02, 2009, 09:37:58 am
I knew a guy that was in proximity of a mortar that landed & it busted his eardrum.  He got a Purple Heart. 

:razorback:

Well I believe he deserved one then, a busted eardrum is a life long injury.
\\\"Camp Sather 2003\\\"

RazorWeevil

Quote from: HawgsandDawgs on February 02, 2009, 12:13:29 pm
Well I believe he deserved one then, a busted eardrum is a life long injury.

Oh, I have no doubt he deserves it.  Just kind of an amusing story.

It's a lifelong injury?  I had a ruptured eardrum back when I was about 10 (it bled, oozed, ER visit, very painful, etc.)  But I haven't had any problems out of since then. 
Insanity is hereditary.  I got mine from my kids.

H&D

Quote from: RazorWeevil on February 02, 2009, 04:12:57 pm
Oh, I have no doubt he deserves it.  Just kind of an amusing story.

It's a lifelong injury?  I had a ruptured eardrum back when I was about 10 (it bled, oozed, ER visit, very painful, etc.)  But I haven't had any problems out of since then.

I'm not saying the guy is going to be deaf or anything, but I bet when he goes in for his physicals his hearing test aren't the same.  He is going to be more likely to start loosing his hearing earlier also.
\\\"Camp Sather 2003\\\"

old hog

February 03, 2009, 01:45:13 pm #18 Last Edit: February 03, 2009, 01:49:11 pm by old hog
Anyone who has served in live combat is a hero in my book. But, the phony ones need to be sent directly to the hottest combat zone and left with one bullet. That is a slap in the face to the brave ones who have been there. My hat is off to the ones who served. You done good.

TexHog188

Awards and Decorations are required for promotion in today's military and therefore they are cheapened for all.  Except under very extraordinary circumstances, E1-E4 get Air Force Achievement Medals, E5-E6 get AF Commendation Medals, and E7-E9 generally get Meritorious Service Medals.  It works in similar fashion for Officers as well.  I have a rack that would choke a horse, but I am most proud of the my dad's WWII medals.  I know he was a hero and earned both Purple Hearts and 4 campaign medals.
"When you're around people that have been where you're trying to go, they know the answers."  Moses Moody

RazorWeevil

Quote from: TexHog188 on February 09, 2009, 10:28:13 pm
Awards and Decorations are required for promotion in today's military and therefore they are cheapened for all.  Except under very extraordinary circumstances, E1-E4 get Air Force Achievement Medals

This is true.  I got my Air Force Achievement Medal when I was a E-3 for basically just showing up to work & doing my job.  Didn't do anything special. 
Insanity is hereditary.  I got mine from my kids.

H&D

Quote from: RazorWeevil on February 10, 2009, 08:05:44 am
This is true.  I got my Air Force Achievement Medal when I was a E-3 for basically just showing up to work & doing my job.  Didn't do anything special. 

Our back office sent us outside the wire nearly everyday in Iraq and only a small portion of us (I was an E-4 (with a line number) while in Iraq) received Commendation Medals everyone else got Achievements and were told they were lucky to get that.  Of course all of the back office walked out with Bronze Stars....
\\\"Camp Sather 2003\\\"

husker71

When I was in the USN stationed at NAVCOMMSTA Phillippines I got a roommate who would not say hardly anything to me.  After several days I went and asked to be moved .  My chief then told me that guy was on the Pueblo and had been prisoner of North Korea.  After that I understood.

felixjonesfan

what a shame and disgrace to real men of bravery who bravely went into enemy fire with only thought of delivering the boom death or life

 

nlrwildcat1

This is a issue I know of. When I got out of the Army i joined an Air Force unit that had just got back from Balad. The LTC got a bronze star by sitting in the office while the runway repair and power production guys wrer always getting mortated fixing something.

felixjonesfan

Do they have their offices in concrete bunkers and if a mortar hits it it will just disentergrate?

H&D

Quote from: nlrwildcat1 on March 22, 2009, 01:15:27 pm
This is a issue I know of. When I got out of the Army i joined an Air Force unit that had just got back from Balad. The LTC got a bronze star by sitting in the office while the runway repair and power production guys wrer always getting mortated fixing something.

That is what the Air Force has reduced itself too.  While I was in Baghdad, Iraq our back office (the people that sent us on convoys) all received bronze stars, while the Security Forces Team I was with TSgt down to SrA all got Achievements and and a couple of us got Commendations for an incident that should have been a minimum of a Bronze Star.  I gave a speech about this at Airmen Leadership School that got applause from everyone in the room MSgt and below and a cold death stare from everyone higher ranking.
\\\"Camp Sather 2003\\\"

Albert Einswine

I used to work with a retired Marine warrant officer (he's also a huge Razorback fan) who I consider a good friend.  He was from a Marine family.  His father was a decorated Vietnam veteran and 3 of his brothers had also served in the Corps.

Somehow his dad had never actually received his medals for his actions in the war and Bill did the research into his commendations and got all the necessary paperwork to receive them decades after the fact.

He and his family planned a surprise award ceremony at a VFW hall somewhere down around Pine Bluff, if my memory serves well, and had a Marine officer there to award him and Marine color guard to honor him.

He showed me the photos of the ceremony,  it was a beautiful thing.

Bill let me read his commendations and I have to tell you that I choked with emotion as I read of his father's actions in battle on behalf of fellow Marines.

Here follows the text and a link to the commendation letter for the Silver Star awarded to Marine Staff Sergeant Billy J. Brickey:

STAFF SERGEANT BILLY J. BRICKEY
Silver Star

UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS
HEADQUARTERS. FLEET MARINE FORCE. PACIFIC
FPO. SAN FRANCISCO. 96602

  In the name of the President of the United States, the Commanding General, Fleet Marine Force, Pacific takes pleasure in presenting the SILVER STAR MEDAL to

STAFF SERGEANT BILLY J. BRICKEY
UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS

for service as set forth in the following

CITATION

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving as Squad Leader with Company I, Third Battalion, Fifth Marines in connection with operations against the enemy in the Republic of Vietnam. On 22 July 1966, Staff Sergeant BRICKEY's squad was serving as point for a company column, moving down a wide streambed, when the point fire team was ambushed at close range from enemy positions along the steep banks of the streambed.

The fire team immediately sustained several casualties and was pinned down by heavy and accurate enemy automatic rifle fire. Maneuvering his remaining teams into positions to neutralize the enemy fire, Staff Sergeant BRICKEY left his place of relative safety to render aid to the wounded Marines. Continually and with complete disregard for his own safety, he crossed the exposed area under withering enemy fire to carry the wounded to safety.

During one of his rescue attempts, Staff Sergeant BRICKEY was wounded by enemy fire and suffered wounds in his right arm and hand. Selflessly, he continued to direct fire on the enemy and to care for the wounded until they had all been moved to a safe position. After routing the enemy, Staff Sergeant BRICKEY directed the remainder of his squad in clearing a zone for the medical evacuation helicopter.

His outstanding leadership and compassion for his fellow Marines inspired all who observed him and were instrumental in saving the lives of several of his companions. By his extraordinary courage, bold initiative, and selfless devotion to duty, Staff Sergeant BRICKEY upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and of the United States Naval Service.


http://www.combatwife.net/hastingscitations.htm


"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

felixjonesfan

God bless him, god bless the men who werent so fortunate.