Mets "I'm sure to be horrific" Offseason Thread

[Oliver]

So let's start this one off with a bang. 

Let's hold Omar Minaya to a different standard than Willie Randolph and give him a 3 year extension for putting together a flawed team.  Check.

Let's resign Jerry Manuel (Probably the only smart thing we'll do this offseason).  Check.

Let's pick up Carlos Delgado's option on his final year.  Check.  I'm undecided about this one.  He was awesome in the second half of the season but like my Met friend said, "It's a trap."


Now I see Mets blog today and read this about Manny Ramirez...   http://www.metsblog.com/

And just like I thought, Blomar is going to mess this up.  Trading for Ramirez and having him for a half season was the way to go.  If you don't think he hasn't sparked that Dodger team with his presence then you haven't been watching baseball.  He's been motivated by a new location and wants to prove that all that was going on in Boston wasn't his fault.  So having him right now is fantastic because he's playing for a new, big contract and I will go so far as to say we'd be in the playoffs right now if our GM had one brain in his head. 

But instead, we're thinking of signing him to a Pedro Martinez contract.  Where by the 3rd year, he'll be hurt all the time or pulling the same stunts he did at Boston.   

[LVW]

Orlando Hudson wants to play on the Mets.

[Oliver]

Orlando Hudson wants to play on the Mets.

To me he is the most important offseason get for the Mets.  Even more than bullpen help.  If we could sign him and somehow get rid of Luis Castillo, it would be huge.

[ErieHog]

So, how much are you going to pay for whatever journeyman OF that makes a big name for himself this post-season?

30 million?  50 million?

[Oliver]

So, how much are you going to pay for whatever journeyman OF that makes a big name for himself this post-season?

30 million?  50 million?

No, not a Carlos Beltran this time. 

We're signing another Pedro Martinez in Manny Ramirez.

[ErieHog]

No, not a Carlos Beltran this time. 

We're signing another Pedro Martinez in Manny Ramirez.

You could save yourself some trouble, and resign Pedro to a 5 year, 115 million dollar deal...why shop, when you can have a sh*tty deal without leaving the old rotation?

[chiefsfan]

Left Field is the one position where I will argue that we need to trust our farm system.     We need to go out and sign a 3rd outfielder type player, who will play all out and hustle, but isnt going to command and arm and a leg.    Trust that Fernando Martinez is still able to play Left Field and will be major league ready soon enough

As for 2nd base,  Trade Castillo and sign Hudson.    Continue to work with Daniel Murphy on playing 2nd base and 1st base, and use him as a super sub to spell infielders, where we wont have a huge offensive drop off in doing so

Pitching Staff...  Other then Johan, Pelfrey, Maine, Joe Smith, and maybe Brian Stokes.   Get rid of the lot of them

[Oliver]

You could save yourself some trouble, and resign Pedro to a 5 year, 115 million dollar deal...why shop, when you can have a sh*tty deal without leaving the old rotation?

Because Omar wants to try out new "old blood"

[Oliver]

Left Field is the one position where I will argue that we need to trust our farm system.     We need to go out and sign a 3rd outfielder type player, who will play all out and hustle, but isnt going to command and arm and a leg.    Trust that Fernando Martinez is still able to play Left Field and will be major league ready soon enough

As for 2nd base,  Trade Castillo and sign Hudson.    Continue to work with Daniel Murphy on playing 2nd base and 1st base, and use him as a super sub to spell infielders, where we wont have a huge offensive drop off in doing so

Pitching Staff...  Other then Johan, Pelfrey, Maine, Joe Smith, and maybe Brian Stokes.   Get rid of the lot of them

I also agree that we shouldn't resign Perez.  But here's the big question...we need a solid 2 or 3 guy to replace him in the rotation.  Who should we get and who will we get?

I see C.C. Sabathia going to L.A. and A.J. Burnett going to the Yankees.  So after that, who should we make a play for?

[chiefsfan]

I also agree that we shouldn't resign Perez.  But here's the big question...we need a solid 2 or 3 guy to replace him in the rotation.  Who should we get and who will we get?

I see C.C. Sabathia going to L.A. and A.J. Burnett going to the Yankees.  So after that, who should we make a play for?

Trade Market.   Ive heard it mentioned recently that we should call the Angels and get an asking price for a guy like Joe Saunders, it makes sense when you think about it.   The Angels farm system is full, and they wont go requesting much in terms of minor leaguers, but instead may want a guy like Nick Evans.

Id also make a run at Derrick Lowe whose going to be a FA after the postseason.  Assuing Santanna/Pelfrey are our #1 and #2.   a guy like Saunders would be a good #3 guy, and Lowe fits in well at #4.    That leaves  John Maine or Jon Niese to battle for the #5 spot

I have thought for years that we should trade for pitching, especially younger pitching.   because they bring a small contract with them, but could be re-signed to a long term deal here if they reach their potential

[Oliver]

Trade Market.   Ive heard it mentioned recently that we should call the Angels and get an asking price for a guy like Joe Saunders, it makes sense when you think about it.   The Angels farm system is full, and they wont go requesting much in terms of minor leaguers, but instead may want a guy like Nick Evans.

Id also make a run at Derrick Lowe whose going to be a FA after the postseason.  Assuing Santanna/Pelfrey are our #1 and #2.   a guy like Saunders would be a good #3 guy, and Lowe fits in well at #4.    That leaves  John Maine or Jon Niese to battle for the #5 spot

I have thought for years that we should trade for pitching, especially younger pitching.   because they bring a small contract with them, but could be re-signed to a long term deal here if they reach their potential

Derek Lowe would be a great fit on this staff.

[chiefsfan]

Derek Lowe would be a great fit on this staff.

I agree, and he would come fairly cheap.    Although I think the Yankees will stop at nothing to make sure Joe Torre doesnt get C.C. Sabathia.   

We've got solutions at every hole that are cheap and easy, its just up to us to make the move.   

[Oliver]

I agree, and he would come fairly cheap.    Although I think the Yankees will stop at nothing to make sure Joe Torre doesnt get C.C. Sabathia.   

We've got solutions at every hole that are cheap and easy, its just up to us to make the move.   

To me, it sounds like location is more important to C.C.    Not saying that money isn't, but I'm thinking the Yankees would have to offer him the kind of money that would make A-Rod blush to get him to New York.

[chiefsfan]

The First of the anyone but Castillo at 2B in 09 experiments started this afternoon.   Daniel Murphy started and played 2B in the Arizona Winter League, did not make an error, and had 2 hits and 2 RBI's

As for Sabathia.   I do see your point.   I just know that the kind of money the Yankees will offer him will be tough to pass up

[Hogtropolis™]

Guys, Derek Lowe is a much better pitcher than what y'all are giving him credit for.  For the last 4 years with LA, he has had an ERA under 4 and and finished this year with a 3.24 ERA with a career ERA of 3.75.  He has also pitched over 180 innings every year since becoming a starter in 2002.  He has made a minimum of 32 starts over those 7 years also.

I would love for the Cards to be able to sign him, but he won't be cheap like y'all are saying.  He will go for around 12-17 mil per year.  He is already making 10 mil this year and is pitching better now than when he signed that contract.

If the Mets did sign him and talking about the rotation chiefsfan proposed, then IMO, Lowe would be the #2 starter in front of Pelphrey and Saunders.

[LVW]

I agree, and he would come fairly cheap.   

Any postseason success Lowe has this year will drive up his price so i don't look for him to be fairly cheap.

[Oliver]

Any postseason success Lowe has this year will drive up his price so i don't look for him to be fairly cheap.

Fairly cheap compared to C.C. Sabathia and A.J. Burnett.

[chiefsfan]

Guys, Derek Lowe is a much better pitcher than what y'all are giving him credit for.  For the last 4 years with LA, he has had an ERA under 4 and and finished this year with a 3.24 ERA with a career ERA of 3.75.  He has also pitched over 180 innings every year since becoming a starter in 2002.  He has made a minimum of 32 starts over those 7 years also.

I would love for the Cards to be able to sign him, but he won't be cheap like y'all are saying.  He will go for around 12-17 mil per year.  He is already making 10 mil this year and is pitching better now than when he signed that contract.

If the Mets did sign him and talking about the rotation chiefsfan proposed, then IMO, Lowe would be the #2 starter in front of Pelphrey and Saunders.

Cheap compared to whats out there

as for rotation.   Ive seen Pelphrey's stuff.   the only people who could knock him out of the #2 role is a C.C. Sabathia type.    he could be ahead of Saunders though. 

[LVW]

Fairly cheap compared to C.C. Sabathia and A.J. Burnett.

but what about compared to the other 50 FA pitchers

[chiefsfan]

but what about compared to the other 50 FA pitchers

cheap compared to what we need.    out of those 50 FA pitchers, how many actually have what we need

[LVW]

cheap compared to what we need.   

the Mets and 25 other teams need, yeah

[Oliver]

the Mets and 25 other teams need, yeah

But outside of the Yankees and Red Sox, who can outbid us for Lowe.  The Yankees will spend a ton on A.J. Burnett and the Red Sox don't need a Derek Lowe type pitcher, their rotation is solid.

[LVW]

But outside of the Yankees and Red Sox, who can outbid us for Lowe.  The Yankees will spend a ton on A.J. Burnett and the Red Sox don't need a Derek Lowe type pitcher, their rotation is solid.

they don't have to be outibid for the price to get pushed past the "fairly cheap" level(which was my point in the 1st place)- Angels, Rangers, Dodgers, Blue Jays, White Sox, Orioles, and Cubs for sure could do just that.  Hell even the Royals showed they could shell out 11 mil per year for a pitcher if they really want to when they signed Meche at 55 mil for 5 years.

[Oliver]

they don't have to be outibid for the price to get pushed past the "fairly cheap" level(which was my point in the 1st place)- Angels, Rangers, Dodgers, Blue Jays, White Sox, Orioles, and Cubs for sure could do just that.  Hell even the Royals showed they could shell out 11 mil per year for a pitcher if they really want to when they signed Meche at 55 mil for 5 years.

But Meche was their "ace" going into this season.  Lowe is a 3 guy...2 at best.  But I understand what you mean by saying the price can get driven up by other teams.  Depending on what you think getting Lower "cheap" means, we might have to shell out more than usual for him.  But after signing Luis Castillo to a ridiculous contract, I doubt anyone will have a problem with Omar shelling out a little more for a quality pitcher that we really need.

[Hogtropolis™]

But Meche was their "ace" going into this season.  Lowe is a 3 guy...2 at best.  But I understand what you mean by saying the price can get driven up by other teams.  Depending on what you think getting Lower "cheap" means, we might have to shell out more than usual for him.  But after signing Luis Castillo to a ridiculous contract, I doubt anyone will have a problem with Omar shelling out a little more for a quality pitcher that we really need.

He's done a pretty good job as the ace of the Dodgers this year and more than likely will lead them to the WS.

[chiefsfan]

He's done a pretty good job as the ace of the Dodgers this year and more than likely will lead them to the WS.

Mets have a better 1-2 combo in starting pitchers then the dodgers though.   Just because he's the Ace in LA, doesnt make him an Ace in New York

[Hogtropolis™]

Mets have a better 1-2 combo in starting pitchers then the dodgers though.   Just because he's the Ace in LA, doesnt make him an Ace in New York

I didn't say that.  If you noticed I already said that he would be the #2 starter if he was with the NYM (and yes, I still believe he is better than Pelphrey).  I was just commenting on what Oliver was saying about Lowe being a 3-spot and at best 2-spot man in the rotation.  There are many teams that he would be the ace of their rotation and on most teams easily be their #2 man.

[chiefsfan]

someone tell Burgos to shut up

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AsMxUBEfxQRoNLsUv2nTp9MRvLYF?slug=ap-mets-burgos&prov=ap&type=lgns

[ErieHog]

What's the revenue prospects of the new stadium vs. Shea?   Does it help your market position significantly?

[LVW]

Mets have a better 1-2 combo in starting pitchers then the dodgers though.   Just because he's the Ace in LA, doesnt make him an Ace in New York

i wouldn't say better........Santana may be better than Lowe but I'd take Billingsley and Lowe over the other Mets starters everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Oliver]

He's done a pretty good job as the ace of the Dodgers this year and more than likely will lead them to the WS.

Jair Jurrjens did an okay job as the Braves ace this year but that doesn't mean he should be their ace.  Lowe is a fantastic pitcher, but he shouldn't be a team's ace.  I'd love for him to be our #2 guy behind Santana.

[LVW]

A little snippet addressing the Mets closer situation:

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/10/met_closer_torr.html

[LVW]

Word is the Yanks want to sign 2 top starters and their top 3 choices are CC, Burnett, and Lowe.

[Oliver]

I love how he talks about how Gagne and Gregg are closer "options" for the Mets.  Then he says, "I'm not advocating getting these guys...just pointing out the market has more choices than K-Rod and Fuentes."  Haha.

1.  It sounds to me like this guy already knows that Fred Coupon and Blomar will be getting experimental with their closer solution and is trying to cope with the fact that one of our biggest needs in the offseason will be filled with another team's throwaway.

2.  Technically...I'm an option to be the Mets closer.

[chiefsfan]

I love how he talks about how Gagne and Gregg are closer "options" for the Mets.  Then he says, "I'm not advocating getting these guys...just pointing out the market has more choices than K-Rod and Fuentes."  Haha.

1.  It sounds to me like this guy already knows that Fred Coupon and Blomar will be getting experimental with their closer solution and is trying to cope with the fact that one of our biggest needs in the offseason will be filled with another team's throwaway.

2.  Technically...I'm an option to be the Mets closer.

they called me about about the job.   But I turned them down...  I recommended you, so you might hear from them soon

[Oliver]

they called me about about the job.   But I turned them down...  I recommended you, so you might hear from them soon

They did today.  Everything was going well until I told them I was in my 20's and not my mid to late 30's.  Then Omar lost interest.

[chiefsfan]

They did today.  Everything was going well until I told them I was in my 20's and not my mid to late 30's.  Then Omar lost interest.

We never really got that part in the conversation.   When I heard that Omar Minaya was on the phone, I answered "Hi Omar,  Not interested" and hung up

[chiefsfan]

Look on the bright side...now we can all watch Scott Kazmir pitch in the world series!!!!

[Oliver]

So Omar is supposedly going to make offers to K-Rod, Brian Fuentes, and Derek Lowe this week which are our 3 biggest and highest (thankfully) priorities this offseason.  Assuming we don't give K-Rod some kind of ridiculously expensive and 5+ year contract, if we manage to get these 3 then it's a fantastic start to the offseason.

[LVW]

So Omar is supposedly going to make offers to K-Rod, Brian Fuentes, and Derek Lowe this week which are our 3 biggest and highest (thankfully) priorities this offseason.  Assuming we don't give K-Rod some kind of ridiculously expensive and 5+ year contract, if we manage to get these 3 then it's a fantastic start to the offseason.

Fuentes won't sign as a set up man.

[Oliver]

Fuentes won't sign as a set up man.

You are probably right.  There were rumblings of giving Colorado Aaron Heilman plus a minor leaguer for Huston Street.  Then we'd have Street for the 8th and K-Rod or Fuentes for the 9th.  Although it still blows my mind that ANYBODY would be interested in Aaron Heilman.

[jst01]

Although it still blows my mind that ANYBODY would be interested in Aaron Heilman.

yeah, good luck with that.  He reminds me of watching Izzy pitch. You know the other team is about to put a few runners on and score, but you just dont know how bad it's gonna be. 

[chiefsfan]

You are probably right.  There were rumblings of giving Colorado Aaron Heilman plus a minor leaguer for Huston Street.  Then we'd have Street for the 8th and K-Rod or Fuentes for the 9th.  Although it still blows my mind that ANYBODY would be interested in Aaron Heilman.

He showed enough potential that a team like Colorado would jump all over him.    Many are convinced his troubles has more to do with his head.  And that pitching in Colorado would fix that

Although im confused about how pitching in Coors field is good for any pitcher.   Its not as bad as Citizens Bank or Great American Ballpark now

[chiefsfan]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/11/19/2008-11-19_aaron_heilman_wants_starting_role_with_m.html

Heilman says start me or trade me


In other words, Cya Aaron...

[Oliver]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/11/19/2008-11-19_aaron_heilman_wants_starting_role_with_m.html

Heilman says start me or trade me


In other words, Cya Aaron...

You will be missed by opposing team's batters.

[LVW]

You will be missed by opposing team's batters.

c'mon look at it in a positive level- of he stays innthe NL, the Mets batters will welcome him with opren arms.  haha

[LVW]

would you Mets fans be open to a Castillo for Jose Guillen trade?

[chiefsfan]

would you Mets fans be open to a Castillo for Jose Guillen trade?

Id be open to a Castillo for LVW trade

Id take Houston and Dickey Nutt for Luis Castillo

[Oliver]

would you Mets fans be open to a Castillo for Jose Guillen trade?

About the only person I wouldn't trade for Castillo would be Aaron Heilman.

[LVW]

Id be open to a Castillo for LVW trade

You sure about that?  I'm a Scott Boras client.  haha