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Where's Porktatarian when you need him?

Started by Hog Milanese, November 19, 2017, 08:54:33 pm

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NashvilleHog

If Gus wants out because he can't stand the heat at Auburn and his wife is miserable, etc...you don't offer him 6.5 million to come.  That's moronic.  Offer him what Bert makes and see how bad he wants out.  He either wants the job or he doesn't.
On gameday at Neyland Stadium you can count the number of people with full sets of teeth on one hand.

HF#1

Quote from: NashvilleHog on November 20, 2017, 09:27:52 am
If Gus wants out because he can't stand the heat at Auburn and his wife is miserable, etc...you don't offer him 6.5 million to come.  That's moronic.  Offer him what Bert makes and see how bad he wants out.  He either wants the job or he doesn't.

I think you split the difference. I think it would be insulting to ask a guy to leave a pretty good job and not expect a little bit of a raise for his troubles.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

 

The NewEra

We can debate coaches and qualifications all day long, but if Gus really wants to be at Arkansas we shouldn't have to wait long past the Iron Bowl to get a commitment from him.  Either he wants to come home or he doesn't.  Auburn's future and playoff hopes shouldn't play into his decision. 

NuttinItUp

Quote from: PorkRinds on November 20, 2017, 09:27:34 am
8-5
7-6
8-5

That's not winning Big when he has top 5 recruiting classes on the reg.

I like how you left out two years of records to better make your case.

44–20 (24–15 SEC)  vs.  29–33 (11-28 SEC)

I know which one I would pick.

GO

Quote from: The Boar War on November 20, 2017, 09:24:30 am
He's been to the national championship game.
He coaches the number 6 team in the country with one weekend left in the season.
What do you call winning big?

He won the championship with a player that was bought and paid for. A once in a lifetime player at that. Remove Cam's year and you have a 7/8 win a season coach working with 3 times the 4 and 5 star player we will get. I want to get behind Guys if he is hired, but honestly I don't see the fasination with a coach who had shown to be just ok with superior talent. I would much rather gamble on catching lighting in a bottle with a up and comer.

WilsonHog

Quote from: NashvilleHog on November 20, 2017, 09:27:52 am
If Gus wants out because he can't stand the heat at Auburn and his wife is miserable, etc...you don't offer him 6.5 million to come.  That's moronic.  Offer him what Bert makes and see how bad he wants out.  He either wants the job or he doesn't.

I can't see him taking a pay cut of half a million dollars a year.

SquidBilly

Quote from: HF#1 on November 20, 2017, 09:29:41 am
I think you split the difference. I think it would be insulting to ask a guy to leave a pretty good job and not expect a little bit of a raise for his troubles.

But if he reached out to us then who is asking who.  If he wants to be here then he won't need a little raise for his troubles.  And what troubles does a guy making $4mil+ a year really need us to help him out with.

NuttinItUp

Quote from: HF#1 on November 20, 2017, 09:29:41 am
I think you split the difference. I think it would be insulting to ask a guy to leave a pretty good job and not expect a little bit of a raise for his troubles.

According to this (link), he currently makes $4.725 million at Auburn and Bret makes $4.2 million.

I'd say we at least have to equal Auburn pay, right? Maybe a slight bump above that; who knows.

hawganatic

Quote from: The Boar War on November 20, 2017, 09:24:30 am
He's been to the national championship game.
He coaches the number 6 team in the country with one weekend left in the season.
What do you call winning big?

So his overall record at Auburn doesn't concern you?  Outside of his first year and this year, his results have been pretty mediocre.  Years 2/3/4 he lost more conference games than he won.  He's only done well at Auburn when he's had a transfer QB come in, meaning we haven't seen him develop anything on his own.  It's always been somebody he could just plug in and didn't have to coach up.

If he does that with the recruiting base and top 10 classes at Auburn (where they historically recruit so it's not just him pulling the recruits in), how do you think he is going to do with where we usually fall in recruiting?

jgphillips3

Quote from: Arkansas Traveler on November 20, 2017, 09:35:31 am
I can't see him taking a pay cut of half a million dollars a year.

I agree, but, if he was about to get fired...what then? 

The Boar War

Quote from: GO on November 20, 2017, 09:33:38 am
He won the championship with a player that was bought and paid for. A once in a lifetime player at that. Remove Cam's year and you have a 7/8 win a season coach working with 3 times the 4 and 5 star player we will get. I want to get behind Guys if he is hired, but honestly I don't see the fasination with a coach who had shown to be just ok with superior talent. I would much rather gamble on catching lighting in a bottle with a up and comer.

Newton wasn't there when he went to the national championship as a head coach.  Besides you don't get to take away players just to help your position.  It's like me saying:  "Add Bo Jackson to that team and they would have won the national championship".

Hog Fan...DOH!

You're only getting "played" if you don't know the stakes.  If Gus beats Bama, he stays.  If he doesn't... AU is freaking crazy-town and he wants out.  But then again, AU is always crazy town so maybe he wants out regardless.

Arkansas will find a good coach even if it's not Gus.

PorkRinds

Quote from: NuttinItUp on November 20, 2017, 09:32:42 am
I like how you left out two years of records to better make your case.

44–20 (24–15 SEC)  vs.  29–33 (11-28 SEC)

I know which one I would pick.

I pointed out the 3/5 years where he underperformed at Auburn. Sorry if that put your panties in a wad.

 

007 License To Squeal

Quote from: Porkatarian on November 20, 2017, 08:14:51 am
The ball is in Gus' court.  It's his job to turn down.

I'm still hearing Scanlon as AD.


Porkatarian out...



There we have it!!!
******Proud Member of Hogville.net since May 22, 2003, 08:17:38 PM*******

NuttinItUp

Quote from: PorkRinds on November 20, 2017, 09:38:54 am
I pointed out the 3/5 years where he underperformed at Auburn. Sorry if that put your panties in a wad.

No worries, I had no panties wadded. All my panties are in perfect shape.

I just was pointing out 44–20 (24–15 SEC) is better than 29–33 (11-28 SEC)

Hog Fan...DOH!

Quote from: hawganatic on November 20, 2017, 09:37:33 am
So his overall record at Auburn doesn't concern you?  Outside of his first year and this year, his results have been pretty mediocre.  Years 2/3/4 he lost more conference games than he won.  He's only done well at Auburn when he's had a transfer QB come in, meaning we haven't seen him develop anything on his own.  It's always been somebody he could just plug in and didn't have to coach up.

If he does that with the recruiting base and top 10 classes at Auburn (where they historically recruit so it's not just him pulling the recruits in), how do you think he is going to do with where we usually fall in recruiting?

The State of Arkansas is producing QBs that can run Gus's system.  Every single kid on campus along with Connor Noland and Gerry Bohannon can run Gus's system.  You've got 5 years worth of potentially solid QB play either on campus or on the way. 

The NewEra

Quote from: Porkatarian on November 20, 2017, 08:14:51 am

Porkatarian out...

Pork, are you hearing anything about a drop dead date for Gus to accept or decline an offer from Arkansas?

Karma

For those that complained about Bret's buyout, you aren't going to like Gus's.

Hog Pharm

Quote from: PorkRinds on November 20, 2017, 09:27:34 am
8-5
7-6
8-5

That's not winning Big when he has top 5 recruiting classes on the reg.

A) He doesn't get top 5 classes regularly
B) You left out year 1

Let's look at his records minus bowl games

12-1
8-4
6-6
8-4
9-2 pending one game

Looks pretty dang good to me. No one wins 10 or more every year in the SEC except Saban.

ricepig

Quote from: jgphillips3 on November 20, 2017, 09:19:54 am
If I was the UofA, I would make Gus accept the job or reject it prior to the Iron Bowl.  Screw being second choice if everything works out down there.  You either want to be here or you want to be there.  Pick.

Don't think that hasn't already occurred.

hawganatic

Quote from: Arkansas Traveler on November 20, 2017, 09:35:31 am
I can't see him taking a pay cut of half a million dollars a year.

If he did that it would be a 12% pay cut.  I've seen  a lot of people take that type of cut for a better work environment. 

That would be like somebody making 80k dropping down to about 71k to be closer to home, better work environment, shorter commute (insert whatever other reason people move and change jobs for).

jgphillips3

Quote from: Karma on November 20, 2017, 09:43:03 am
For those that complained about Bret's buyout, you aren't going to like Gus's.

My fear exactly.  Don't make the same mistake twice.  If this was Dabo Swinney or Nick Saban, lock them up.  Gus has been barely better than mediocre with top ten talent.  This has all the markings of disaster if they don't learn from the Bielema mistake.

rljjr

Quote from: The Boar War on November 20, 2017, 09:24:30 am
He's been to the national championship game.
He coaches the number 6 team in the country with one weekend left in the season.
What do you call winning big?

I give him credit for the first year with the caveat that he had the Chiz's kids. He did, however, win with them. He's a good coach and I'd be alright with him, but again I prefer more of the unknown Norvell with a potentially higher ceiling. We know what Gus is the majority of the time, and especially without a mobile QB. Gus does lots of stuff right. I just know what I prefer.

PorkRinds

Quote from: NuttinItUp on November 20, 2017, 09:41:05 am
No worries, I had no panties wadded. All my panties are in perfect shape.

I just was pointing out 44–20 (24–15 SEC) is better than 29–33 (11-28 SEC)

You're so amazing at math.  ;)

 

NuttinItUp

Quote from: jgphillips3 on November 20, 2017, 09:45:15 am
My fear exactly.  Don't make the same mistake twice.  If this was Dabo Swinney or Nick Saban, lock them up.  Gus has been barely better than mediocre with top ten talent.  This has all the markings of disaster if they don't learn from the Bielema mistake.

You have to understand that Bret's current buyout came with his second contract, not his first. If Jeff had not given him the second contract, we would be at the end of his first now and there would be no buyout.

It isn't the next coach's first contract we should be worried about, because he will most likely get at least 4 years regardless; It is the second contract. Hopefully we will have someone as AD by then who will not give away the house if the coach has not proven themselves yet.

hawganatic

Quote from: Hog Pharm on November 20, 2017, 09:43:14 am
A) He doesn't get top 5 classes regularly
B) You left out year 1

Let's look at his records minus bowl games

12-1
8-4
6-6
8-4
9-2 pending one game

Looks pretty dang good to me. No one wins 10 or more every year in the SEC except Saban.

No but he does get top 10 classes regularly.  Those aren't top 10 results.  If a coach has top 10 talent to work with but his results fall below that, then what is the issue?

Besides if we are just looking at records without any context, Beliema was a far better hire at the time than Malzahn is now.  How did that turn out?

ricepig

Quote from: NuttinItUp on November 20, 2017, 09:48:17 am
You have to understand that Bret's current buyout came with his second contract, not his first. If Jeff had not given him the second contract, we would be at the end of his first now and there would be no buyout.

It isn't the next coach's first contract we should be worried about, because he will get 3 or 4 years regardless; It is the second contract. Hopefully we will have someone as AD by then who will not give away the house if the coach has not proven themselves yet.

I think the original was through 2018, so he AD one more season.

The Hawg Marshal

Gus reached out to Arkansas because at the time he had lost to LSU and was on the hot seat. Then things changed and he won some games, most importantly the Georgia game against the then #1 team. Once that happened the seat cooled considerably. It 's in his court if he wants to still make a move or not. He's probably really torn right now and wishing he would have waited to reach out until after the Bama game at least, to avoid all of the rumors of him leaving .I'm sure the possibility of a playoff run has changed his perspective somewhat . It's going to be interesting to watch this play out.

porkrindjimmy


NuttinItUp


ipigsooie

Quote from: jgphillips3 on November 20, 2017, 09:45:15 am
My fear exactly.  Don't make the same mistake twice.  If this was Dabo Swinney or Nick Saban, lock them up.  Gus has been barely better than mediocre with top ten talent.  This has all the markings of disaster if they don't learn from the Bielema mistake.

If he is getting offered the reported 6.5 million, that'll put him in the top 4. The top 4 coaches as of right now have an average buyout of 34.2 million dollars. The lowest is 27 million. Let that sink in.

NuttinItUp

Quote from: ricepig on November 20, 2017, 09:49:31 am
I think the original was through 2018, so he AD one more season.

I think the buyout was down to essentially 0 in the last year of the contract, though. Certainly much lower than the current.

ricepig

Quote from: NuttinItUp on November 20, 2017, 09:50:59 am
I think the buyout was down to essentially 0 in the last year of the contract, though. Certainly much lower than the current.

No doubt.

PorkRinds

Quote from: Hog Pharm on November 20, 2017, 09:43:14 am
A) He doesn't get top 5 classes regularly
B) You left out year 1

Let's look at his records minus bowl games

12-1
8-4
6-6
8-4
9-2 pending one game

Looks pretty dang good to me. No one wins 10 or more every year in the SEC except Saban.
Ok top ten regularly. I left out years where he didn't underperform. You know, since that's what we were talking about.

HF#1

Quote from: NuttinItUp on November 20, 2017, 09:36:09 am
According to this (link), he currently makes $4.725 million at Auburn and Bret makes $4.2 million.

I'd say we at least have to equal Auburn pay, right? Maybe a slight bump above that; who knows.

Even if Gus can't wait to get back in Fayetteville, you have to pay him at least what he is making at Auburn. Otherwise it is an insult. If he comes to Arkansas, I suspect his salary will be north of 5mil with incentives that could push him over 6mil
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

ipigsooie

Quote from: HF#1 on November 20, 2017, 09:52:48 am
Even if Gus can't wait to get back in Fayetteville, you have to pay him at least what he is making at Auburn. Otherwise it is an insult. If he comes to Arkansas, I suspect his salary will be north of 5mil with incentives that could push him over 6mil

Read his incentives at auburn. He wins th IB he is very likely to make 6 this year with incentives.

HF#1

Quote from: The Hawg Marshal on November 20, 2017, 09:49:33 am
Gus reached out to Arkansas because at the time he had lost to LSU and was on the hot seat. Then things changed and he won some games, most importantly the Georgia game against the then #1 team. Once that happened the seat cooled considerably. It 's in his court if he wants to still make a move or not. He's probably really torn right now and wishing he would have waited to reach out until after the Bama game at least to avoid all of the rumors of him leaving .I'm sure the possibility of a playoff run has changed his perspective somewhat . It's going to be interesting to watch this play out.

The question for him is, how often does he want to feel that kind of heat? It appears he feels it pretty often.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

HF#1

Quote from: ipigsooie on November 20, 2017, 09:54:14 am
Read his incentives at auburn. He wins th IB he is very likely to make 6 this year with incentives.

Whatever the number is, we have to at least match it.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

The Boar War

Quote from: hawganatic on November 20, 2017, 09:37:33 am
So his overall record at Auburn doesn't concern you?  Outside of his first year and this year, his results have been pretty mediocre.  Years 2/3/4 he lost more conference games than he won. 

I'm not saying it doesn't concern me (especially the 2015 year).  Then again I don't know much about the Auburn situation.  Was there a large influential group of upperclassmen in the 13-14 seasons who left?  I don't know. 

I do think it is disingenuous to talk about Malzahn as if he's an unproven coach.  You cant say a coach hasn't won big when he's one of six teams to make the national championship game during his tenure.  And you can't make a rational argument when the entire position is based on striking the best seasons and players from the record.

And he actually had one losing conference record in the seasons you provided.  In 2015 he went 2-6.  In 2014 and 2016 Auburn went 4-4 and 5-3 respectively.

Peter Porker

Quote from: NuttinItUp on November 19, 2017, 08:59:53 pm
No need to panic yet.
I think we are still on Plan A (Gus) until/unless Auburn wins the Iron Bowl. Then we will move on to Plan B, C, etc..

That makes no sense if you think about it.

"Gus, if you win the Iron Bowl we will keep you. If you lose we will fire you."
"ok."

Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

Peter Porker

Quote from: The Boar War on November 20, 2017, 09:57:21 am
I'm not saying it doesn't concern me (especially the 2015 year).  Then again I don't know much about the Auburn situation.  Was there a large influential group of upperclassmen in the 13-14 seasons who left?  I don't know. 

I do think it is disingenuous to talk about Malzahn as if he's an unproven coach.  You cant say a coach hasn't won big when he's one of six teams to make the national championship game during his tenure.  And you can't make a rational argument when the entire position is based on striking the best seasons and players from the record.

And he actually had one losing conference record in the seasons you provided.  In 2015 he went 2-6.  In 2014 and 2016 Auburn went 4-4 and 5-3 respectively.

Here's the Auburn situation....Top 10 classes filled with studs from Alabama and Georgia and mediocre results on the field in comparison.
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

The Boar War

Quote from: rljjr on November 20, 2017, 09:46:03 am
I give him credit for the first year with the caveat that he had the Chiz's kids. He did, however, win with them. He's a good coach and I'd be alright with him, but again I prefer more of the unknown Norvell with a potentially higher ceiling. We know what Gus is the majority of the time, and especially without a mobile QB. Gus does lots of stuff right. I just know what I prefer.

No problem with that.  I'd be fine with Norvell as well but we would have to expect some growing pains.

Peter Porker

Quote from: Hog Pharm on November 20, 2017, 09:43:14 am
A) He doesn't get top 5 classes regularly
B) You left out year 1

Let's look at his records minus bowl games

12-1
8-4
6-6
8-4
9-2 pending one game

Looks pretty dang good to me. No one wins 10 or more every year in the SEC except Saban.

Now, how good does he do with Top 25 classes?

9-3
6-6
4-8
6-6
7-5
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

The NewEra

Quote from: Peter Porker on November 20, 2017, 09:58:28 am
That makes no sense if you think about it.

"Gus, if you win the Iron Bowl we will keep you. If you lose we will fire you."
"ok."

What makes even less sense is to tolerate this; "I want to come home to Arkansas, but now that I've beaten Georgia and might beat Bama I'm having second thoughts."

ipigsooie

Quote from: The Boar War on November 20, 2017, 09:57:21 am
I'm not saying it doesn't concern me (especially the 2015 year).  Then again I don't know much about the Auburn situation.  Was there a large influential group of upperclassmen in the 13-14 seasons who left?  I don't know. 

I do think it is disingenuous to talk about Malzahn as if he's an unproven coach.  You cant say a coach hasn't won big when he's one of six teams to make the national championship game during his tenure.  And you can't make a rational argument when the entire position is based on striking the best seasons and players from the record.

And he actually had one losing conference record in the seasons you provided.  In 2015 he went 2-6.  In 2014 and 2016 Auburn went 4-4 and 5-3 respectively.

You have to look at his good years. Those were with qbs that he didn't develop. He needs transfers that have developed other places to lead his team. Nothing wrong with that I suppose as long as he is able to keep getting these graduate transfers. The years that he can't we may be in trouble.

hogginbama

Quote from: Bret Squealema on November 20, 2017, 08:43:28 am
But where has any of that got us.  I'd rather hire a young guy who wants to be here, is willing to put in the work to build a successful program, and can build a legacy of winning for the next 15-20 years.  It will be hard to repeat the success JFB had here but that's what we could be striving for.  I'd rather give Norvell a shot to build something here.

Seriously, 15-20 yrs? The first time the guy had a 7-5 season followed by a losing record the masses will be calling for his head. The fan base of Arkansas continues to live in the glory days of the 60's and have a sense of instant entitlement with no patience to live through some bad times. It can be seen in this thread, "if we don't get plan A then let's move on to plan B or C". If we are going to demand excellence then we should be saying to hell with plan B and C. If the PTB can't get us plan A, then we need to demand new PTBs as well.
My ole buddy Biscuit has crossed that rainbow bridge. Life sure is different without him around.

NashvilleHog

Quote from: HF#1 on November 20, 2017, 09:29:41 am
I think you split the difference. I think it would be insulting to ask a guy to leave a pretty good job and not expect a little bit of a raise for his troubles.

I don't think we are asking him to leave as much as he wants out of there (supposedly)
On gameday at Neyland Stadium you can count the number of people with full sets of teeth on one hand.

ipigsooie

Quote from: The Boar War on November 20, 2017, 09:59:44 am
No problem with that.  I'd be fine with Norvell as well but we would have to expect some growing pains.

I imagine anyone is going to have some growing pains with this team. I certainly hope not but it's not like these guys are setting the world on fire.

Piggie

From Rivals top 50 Recruiting Rankings:

7. AUBURN

Recruiting rankings
2017   2016   2015   2014   2013   Average
14
9
7
9
9
9.6
Auburn's success on the field has been inconsistent in recent years, but its recruiting continues to be consistently impressive. While never finishing higher than seventh since 2013, the Tigers have brought in the level of talent necessary to compete in the SEC, which should show dividends on the field in the coming years.

Judge Farrell: UNDERACHIEVED. A trip to the national title game is great, but the seasons since haven't been pretty at all, which is why they fall below ACHIEVED. Gus Malzahn is on the hot seat a bit and needs a big year.

T25. ARKANSAS

Ranks last 5 years: 24, 32, 25, 29, 26 -- 27.2

Judge Farrell: UNDERACHIEVED. Arkansas' best year has been 8-5 and the worst was 3-9, and the SEC record (9-23) is awful.
It's a great day to be a Bryant Hornet!

riccoar

Quote from: HF#1 on November 20, 2017, 09:55:19 am
The question for him is, how often does he want to feel that kind of heat? It appears he feels it pretty often.
The sad fact of being the HC at Auburn.  Hell, if Auburn ever had an AD that gave a coach a five year pass untouched, they would probably have an armed coup on campus.