USA Today: A college offense that could challenge the spread's popularity

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I found this and thought it was an interesting read about the preferences of some coaches for the Pro Style as opposed to the Spread. It contains quotes from several coaches including Bret Bielema and the philosophy makes sense. But like any other offensive style, you still have to execute.

Coaches are human, and like all humans they get intrigued by what's next, the evolution of technology, of thought, or in this case their sport. And after a decade of college teams embracing the spread and spread-option, coaches are thinking about what they can do with more runners in the backfield and tight ends on the line — commonly known as a "pro set."http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?action=post;msg=11069242;topic=645396.0

One of the draws of this approach, according to Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly, is that it renders problematic a trend in recruiting specialized defensive players tailored to stopping the spread such as nickelbacks, pass-rushers and those who slide from defensive back to linebacker. "If you start to utilize more two-tight end sets, that could be problematic for defenses," he said.

But the pro sets seen on Saturdays will include a proven college ingredient: faster pace.

"I think that you can run a no-huddle, up-tempo with anything as long as you can get into enough formations to make the defense adjust," said UCLA coach Jim Mora. "Sometimes we'll go quick, try to get there and snap it before they're ready, and sometimes we'll get up there quickly and give Josh (Rosen) a chance to force them to show their hands so you can get the right play."

Clay Helton, sees other advantages to an up-tempo pro-style combination. "Part of the pro-style system is to be able to call two plays and have your quarterback get you in the right one," Helton said. "What I like about the no-huddle is the ability to see the defense and them not know whether you're going fast or whether you're just trying to get to the right play. I think you can do both."

Nearly every coach, when discussing this topic, stressed the need to have great size, strength, fitness and depth to do it effectively. One of them was Bret Bielema, whose Arkansas team ran tempo out of its pro set last season (2015) against Alabama in a losing effort that nonetheless kept the Tide 10 points off its season average to that point. Bielema felt his team caught the Tide a little off guard because normally the Razorbacks have a more methodical pace.

Bielema says he sees more teams playing fast in a pro-style attack but views the concept as more of a change-up option than a base offense, and that to run it all the time would require a special kind of quarterback and special kind of conditioning. He once interviewed an offensive coordinator job candidate who planned to bring the scheme with him. "He wanted to go up-tempo with pro style," Bielema said. "I didn't hire him, but it was a good idea."

On the other hand:
While praising the Wisconsin offense and its effectiveness, Ohio State coach Urban Meyer says the Buckeyes are committed to the spread and recruiting to the spread, which they do well — the Buckeyes have finished in the top seven nationally in recruiting every year under Meyer and have a huge lead in for 2017.

As much as he likes the idea of a pro-style hurry-up, Bielema also has a foot in the Shaw camp. "To see the offensive coordinator pacing on the sidelines wanting the ball back is very gratifying," he said. "I don't know if you can do full-go because the methodical approach wears people down and eats up the clock. A big part of it is keeping the ball away from them."

So, does this explain some of the seeming disorganization and confusion that we seem to see on the field these days? Pro-Style but then Spread The Field, Hurry-Up and then Ball Control Huddle-Style? It might explain why we can't seem to find our identity as an offense? Trying to mix too many concepts?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2016/08/28/college-football-pro-style-no-huddle-up-tempo-offense-spread/89253980/

[PygmalionEffect2]

BB mentioned ball control by slowing game down but I guess doesn't realize it cuts down on possessions of his own offense

The better team should tend to want to create more possessions, more plays, to give the better team more opportunities to show its the better team and pull away.

Burning clock all game is a loser underdog mentality.

[PygmalionEffect2]

Guess I shouldn't contradict BB with all these great 2nd half offensive performances he's had due to wearing out the opposing defense with his ball control scheme.

Works great on FCS teams.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

BB mentioned ball control by slowing game down but I guess doesn't realize it cuts down on possessions of his own offense

The better team should tend to want to create more possessions, more plays, to give the better team more opportunities to show its the better team and pull away.

Burning clock all game is a loser underdog mentality.

There's nothing wrong with going with a ball control offense that drains the clock and gives your opponent fewer possessions, as long as you have a better than average defense that can limit the scoring opportunities and big plays of the teams that you play. But both the offense and defense have to execute at a higher level than what we have witnessed this season. They cited a good example for us in 2015 vs. Alabama. We still lost but at least it was respectable (we led 7-3 at the half and it was just 10-7 going into the 4th qtr).

But everything that Bielema was quoted as saying in this article isn't what we have been able to get done this season.

[Captain Hamerica]

There's nothing wrong with going with a ball control offense that drains the clock and gives your opponent fewer possessions, as long as you have a better than average defense that can limit the scoring opportunities and big plays of the teams that you play. But both the offense and defense have to execute at a higher level than what we have witnessed this season. They cited a good example for us in 2015 vs. Alabama. We still lost but at least it was respectable (we led 7-3 at the half and it was just 10-7 going into the 4th qtr).

But everything that Bielema was quoted as saying in this article isn't what we have been able to get done this season.

So it's basically the same question that comes up over and over again.  Is it the coaching, or is it the players?  However, when it comes right down to it, the coaches are ultimately responsible for the recruiting of said players.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

So it's basically the same question that comes up over and over again.  Is it the coaching, or is it the players?  However, when it comes right down to it, the coaches are ultimately responsible for the recruiting of said players.

This is why I posed the question that I did at the last of the OP with regard to our identity. Sometimes too much is less.

[Jimbob111]

BB mentioned ball control by slowing game down but I guess doesn't realize it cuts down on possessions of his own offense

The better team should tend to want to create more possessions, more plays, to give the better team more opportunities to show its the better team and pull away.

Burning clock all game is a loser underdog mentality.

This. Ball control only works if you can score when you have the ball. Doesn't matter how long you hold the ball if the other team scores and you don't. It really is that simple.

[parallaxpig]

Everybody uses Alabama as the measuring stick. The only teams to beat them lately have been spread type offenses with mainly dynamic QB's. Clemson/Deshaun Watson, Auburn/Cam Newton, Tex A&M/ Johnny Manziel Ole Miss/Bo Wallace (not dynamic but effective).......so point is you can't out Alabama at its own game.

[PygmalionEffect2]

Also it's counter intuitive to think its more effective to give a defense 40 seconds to rest in between plays instead of 10-15 seconds.

It's the interval time and amount of reps that wears you down faster,not the total time. Total time of possession can be very misleading in this case.


Anyone who works out understands this.

So BB probably doesn't understand. 

[Großer Kriegschwein]

I'm beginning to believe that in order to even the odds with these defenses we need to have a dual threat quarterback that they have to account for.  It's a little more complicated than that, but even Nick Saban has come around to the idea.

I have to agree, the way we run it, it just seems to be enough to beat G5 and FCS teams, most of the time.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Also it's counter intuitive to think its more effective to give a defense 40 seconds to rest in between plays instead of 10-15 seconds.

It's the interval time and amount of reps that wears you down faster,not the total time. Total time of possession can be very misleading in this case.


Anyone who works out understands this.

So BB probably doesn't understand. 

You've alluded to Bielema's lack of knowledge twice so far in this thread which really makes you look less informed. The man has probably forgot more about football than you and I will ever know. Now I don't like his results and something has definitely gone off the rails with the program and he doesn't seem to be able to correct whatever is wrong, but he knows football. That of course is what makes all of this more frustrating for everyone. It isn't like he doesn't have a lot of experience. I think he just underestimated the level of the challenge at Arkansas in both the competition levels and the difficulty in recruiting.

His style of offense and defense just requires a lot more talent and depth than he has been able to generate at Arkansas.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

You've alluded to Bielema's lack of knowledge twice so far in this thread which really makes you look less informed. The man has probably forgot more about football than you and I will ever know. Now I don't like his results and something has definitely gone off the rails with the program and he doesn't seem to be able to correct whatever is wrong, but he knows football. That of course is what makes all of this more frustrating for everyone. It isn't like he doesn't have a lot of experience. I think he just underestimated the level of the challenge at Arkansas in both the competition levels and the difficulty in recruiting.

His style of offense and defense just requires a lot more talent and depth than he has been able to generate at Arkansas.

The question is whether or not we should give him one more year to do what he has sent been able to achieve in 5.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I'm beginning to believe that in order to even the odds with these defenses we need to have a dual threat quarterback that they have to account for.  It's a little more complicated than that, but even Nick Saban has come around to the idea.

I would agree with the D/T thought, but it will require a change in offensive style as well.

I found it interesting in the article that he admitted that he had at one time interviewed a OC who wanted to bring the HUNH, speed-it-up out of the Pro Set to Arkansas and even though he said he didn't hire him, he thought it was a good idea. We haven't seen a lot of that and you can understand why if you read  his quotes in that article. He wants to stick with the grind-it-out, clock eating approach. If you are going to do that, you better have a strong defense as well.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The question is whether or not we should give him one more year to do what he has sent been able to achieve in 5.

That wasn't the question of this thread.

But to your post, do I think that he should get one more year? No.

[Dominicanhog]

There's nothing wrong with going with a ball control offense that drains the clock and gives your opponent fewer possessions, as long as you have a better than average defense that can limit the scoring opportunities and big plays of the teams that you play. But both the offense and defense have to execute at a higher level than what we have witnessed this season. They cited a good example for us in 2015 vs. Alabama. We still lost but at least it was respectable (we led 7-3 at the half and it was just 10-7 going into the 4th qtr).

But everything that Bielema was quoted as saying in this article isn't what we have been able to get done this season.

Ball control with a diversified offense ie Enos,  has not been as effective as the Chaney/Pittman teams that loaded up with 350 pounders and played 3 yards and a cloud of dust... we try to run power with pass blockers ...before we were shoving 1750 lbs of  O line and another 500 in FB/TE.. we are a different offensive line style/athlete  and can't control the clock as we did before..

[Großer Kriegschwein]

I would agree with the D/T thought, but it will require a change in offensive style as well.

I found it interesting in the article that he admitted that he had at one time interviewed a OC who wanted to bring the HUNH, speed-it-up out of the Pro Set to Arkansas and even though he said he didn't hire him, he thought it was a good idea. We haven't seen a lot of that and you can understand why if you read  his quotes in that article. He wants to stick with the grind-it-out, clock eating approach. If you are going to do that, you better have a strong defense as well.

Arkansas is the perfect problem. Almost solving the singularity-type complicated for Bret.

He won't be able to fix the defense without more talent. To get that talent it will require a big name defensive coordinator with recruiter-first coaches. In order to get those types, they will want an efficient offense and serviceable special teams so their defensive players aren't just beating their heads against the wall.

Those are the reasons that Bret won't be able to get it done here and that 8-wins will be his ceiling at Arkansas.

I like the guy. Just not working out.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Arkansas is the perfect problem. Almost solving the singularity-type complicated for Bret.

He won't be able to fix the defense without more talent. To get that talent it will require a big name defensive coordinator with recruiter-first coaches. In order to get those types, they will want an efficient offense and serviceable special teams so their defensive players aren't just beating their heads against the wall.

Those are the reasons that Bret won't be able to get it done here and that 8-wins will be his ceiling at Arkansas.

I like the guy. Just not working out.

Go with a "Petrino-style" offense that has a great play caller and can tutor QB's and receivers, have a good pass blocking O-Line that can still block the run adequately, rangey receivers that can and will catch in traffic and a decent BBDB defense and you should become more competitive than what we are seeing now AND, it is easier to recruit those types of players.

Even with that I don't think it automatically moves us into the annual 10-11-12 win seasons, but it could move us into the range of 8-9-10 each year and maybe occasionally having a more successful season than that. But keep in mind that over the previous 3 seasons under Bielema, even with all of the problems and mistakes that have been made by players and staff (in-game), we have had every opportunity to win 9 and one or two years, 10 games.

[From Tusk Till Dawn]

You've alluded to Bielema's lack of knowledge twice so far in this thread which really makes you look less informed. The man has probably forgot more about football than you and I will ever know. Now I don't like his results and something has definitely gone off the rails with the program and he doesn't seem to be able to correct whatever is wrong, but he knows football. That of course is what makes all of this more frustrating for everyone. It isn't like he doesn't have a lot of experience. I think he just underestimated the level of the challenge at Arkansas in both the competition levels and the difficulty in recruiting.

His style of offense and defense just requires a lot more talent and depth than he has been able to generate at Arkansas.

Watching Mallet hand off to Collins over and over the other night was proof positive that when it works it works, the dolphins couldnt stop it and were frustrated.  Stoerner had some interesting thoughts also, recognized that coaching was part of the equation but that these players had to have the mindset that they are going to go win their individual battles.  Im hopeful that we turn the corner and run the ball effectively today. 

[SchrodingersHog]

I've wondered if the power running game taken to the extreme would be successful for us.  Line up the seven biggest hosses we could recruit.  Seven sumo wrestlers up front.  Shoulder to shoulder.  No spaces, no gaps.  Direct snap to a fullback sized QB.  Three lineman sized RB's to push the pile.  Don't pass and don't punt.  Don't even recruit skilled position players for the offense.  Size and strength the only recruiting criteria.  Wouldn't need an OC or any offensive staff.  Just get the best strength coach money could buy.  It would make the opposing team's defensive speed and skill players useless.  Opposing teams' defensive lines would wear down pretty quickly.  It would be as boring as watching paint dry, but it might work for a school that has trouble recruiting high caliber offensive skills players.

[Poker_hog]

BB mentioned ball control by slowing game down but I guess doesn't realize it cuts down on possessions of his own offense

The better team should tend to want to create more possessions, more plays, to give the better team more opportunities to show its the better team and pull away.

Burning clock all game is a loser underdog mentality.

Totally agree.  It allowed us to keep it close against bama a couple of times but it also allowed inferior teams to beat us.  The toledo game was the best example of this. 

[Ex-Trumpet]

..Nearly every coach, when discussing this topic, stressed the need to have great size, strength, fitness and depth to do it effectively. One of them was Bret Bielema...


One glaring omission from this comment is speed.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Go with a "Petrino-style" offense that has a great play caller and can tutor QB's and receivers, have a good pass blocking O-Line that can still block the run adequately, rangey receivers that can and will catch in traffic and a decent BBDB defense and you should become more competitive than what we are seeing now AND, it is easier to recruit those types of players.

Even with that I don't think it automatically moves us into the annual 10-11-12 win seasons, but it could move us into the range of 8-9-10 each year and maybe occasionally having a more successful season than that. But keep in mind that over the previous 3 seasons under Bielema, even with all of the problems and mistakes that have been made by players and staff (in-game), we have had every opportunity to win 9 and one or two years, 10 games.

Yep. Agree on the easier to recruit systems.

We could have won 9-10 games a couple times. 

But we didn't.

The other coaches took advantage of our failures. The losses at the end of last year was who we were. Just didn't get exposed until the end of the season.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Totally agree.  It allowed us to keep it close against bama a couple of times but it also allowed inferior teams to beat us.  The toledo game was the best example of this. 

The problem with the Toledo game was not adjusting the O-Line blocking as the game progressed. They were smaller and much quicker and utilized that to stunt and blitz a great deal. They were beating us into the gaps and that destroys any scheme that you have for O-Line blocking, especially when you are bigger and slower than the opponent. Had we gone to "area/zone" blocking, we would have had a hat on hat and the RB's would have just had to look for the creases and back-side cuts.

[swineology]

You've alluded to Bielema's lack of knowledge twice so far in this thread which really makes you look less informed. The man has probably forgot more about football than you and I will ever know. Now I don't like his results and something has definitely gone off the rails with the program and he doesn't seem to be able to correct whatever is wrong, but he knows football. That of course is what makes all of this more frustrating for everyone. It isn't like he doesn't have a lot of experience. I think he just underestimated the level of the challenge at Arkansas in both the competition levels and the difficulty in recruiting.

His style of offense and defense just requires a lot more talent and depth than he has been able to recruit at Arkansas.

FIFY

[Ex-Trumpet]

The problem with the Toledo game was not adjusting the O-Line blocking as the game progressed. They were smaller and much quicker and utilized that to stunt and blitz a great deal. They were beating us into the gaps and that destroys any scheme that you have for O-Line blocking, especially when you are bigger and slower than the opponent. Had we gone to "area/zone" blocking, we would have had a hat on hat and the RB's would have just had to look for the creases and back-side cuts.

It's against the rules to adjust during the game.

[Poker_hog]

The problem with the Toledo game was not adjusting the O-Line blocking as the game progressed. They were smaller and much quicker and utilized that to stunt and blitz a great deal. They were beating us into the gaps and that destroys any scheme that you have for O-Line blocking, especially when you are bigger and slower than the opponent. Had we gone to "area/zone" blocking, we would have had a hat on hat and the RB's would have just had to look for the creases and back-side cuts.

I can't argue with that, but I also feel like we simply ran out of time.  We had superior talent and depth.  I have no doubt we win that game if each team had 2-3 of more possessions.

It's a pretty simple concept, the fewer possessions in a game the more likely luck plays into an outcome.  Heck we could get luck and beat Alabama if each team was limited to one possession.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

FIFY

"Generate" was meant to include recruiting, but it also includes development.

[Idahog]

I'd love to see the No Huddle Wing offense. 

I think his recruiting is good enough, his strength and conditioning has been BIG10 and not SEC.

CBB is trying to blend too many philosophies, I think being successful at Arkansas is going in big on one philosophy and getting very good at it.  Trying too much with under-powered cards will get you owned every time.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

It's against the rules to adjust during the game.

We need to break the rules more often then, especially in the 3rd quarter.

[ballz2thewall]

This. Ball control only works if you can score when you have the ball. Doesn't matter how long you hold the ball if the other team scores and you don't. It really is that simple.

correct. the planets have to line up repeatedly to be a consistent winner with this style. it's suffocating when it's working. and, you've got to stick to the plan. [not to mention the specific athletes required that we've beat to death]

[Großer Kriegschwein]

We need to break the rules more often then, especially in the 3rd quarter.

Then we need to close the buffet in the locker room at halftime. We come out in the second half like we have 20/200 vision and about 100 lbs of lead in our ass.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Then we need to close the buffet in the locker room at halftime. We come out in the second half like we have 20/200 vision and about 100 lbs of lead in our ass.

I'm sure there is good, sound theory behind the snack in the locker room at halftime, but I never played on a team that got any of that and never had time for anything other than studying what the other team was doing, what we were doing wrong and what we were going to do in the second half to counteract that. We didn't even get Gatorade. I was just happy to have water and a crowbar to get an O-Line Coach off my ass.