Getting Out-Rebounded by the Smallest Team in the Tournament is Unacceptable

[Jamie Jones]

Tons of offensive rebounds only means that they missed a ton of shots. You take the offensive rebounds stat and I'll take a higher shooting percentage...

[Hogfaniam]

Sooooooooooo, we just won our first NCAA Tournament game in 7 years...let me repeat that. We just won our first NCAA Tournament game in 7 YEARS!! And you are bitching and complaining about rebounding and saying it is unacceptable. This is hilarious! Why don't you enjoy a win? I'm sure you been complaining that we haven't been in the NCAA in 7 years before this year too...and we finally win one and you find something to bitch about. Haaaaaaaaaaa!

What if we beat UNC to get to the Sweet 16, but they out rebound us by 10. You still going to think that is "unacceptable" even though we would win AGAIN?

I'll take the win with Bobby Portis sitting on the bench with a 12-16 point lead vs a Bobby Portis desperation lunge trying to block a game tying 3.

You guys really think we lose that game by NOT giving up 19 second chance points? 

[hawg66]

If you're a basketball "purest", meaning that you like teams that play fundamentally sound basketball (IE. Screen and rolls, blocking out on shots, backdoor cuts, slow the tempo, 2-1-2 zones, short shorts and Chuck Taylor's...) you are never going to be able to enjoy the process of getting to the win, under Mike Anderson. You will have a winning basketball team to root for, but you are going to be pretty much miserable while watching the games. Try to enjoy the fact that our team has 27 wins and is in the round of 32...regardless of the route taken to get there.

This.  People are weird.

[hog.goblin]

When is Mike Anderson going to learn that rebounding is an essential part of the game? Literally no one was blocking out, they just stand around and wait for the ball to come to them or try to jump high to get it. It's just extremely frustrating because it's such a simple concept but Anderson refuses to emphasize the importance of it.

It's the first NCAAT win since 2008.  I think a WPS is more relevant than rebounding at this point.

[Cresthog]

I'll take the win with Bobby Portis sitting on the bench with a 12-16 point lead vs a Bobby Portis desperation lunge trying to block a game tying 3.

You guys really think we lose that game by NOT giving up 19 second chance points? 

You're going to be waiting a while for that.

You expected to win by double digits? Dude there is a reason going in the 5-12 seed games were 10-10 over the last 5 years.

[rzrbk4life]

Only stat that matters is the W and we got that. Just chill out and enjoy the ride

[Jamie Jones]

I'll take the win with Bobby Portis sitting on the bench with a 12-16 point lead vs a Bobby Portis desperation lunge trying to block a game tying 3.

You guys really think we lose that game by NOT giving up 19 second chance points?

Dude...if one team scores a basket after getting 4 offensive rebounds, they have 2 points. The other teams goes down and hits a shot on the first attempt, they have 2 points. If they do this all night, but the first team comments 17 turnovers to the second team's 10, the second team has, theoretically, 7 more offensive possessions. Thereby giving them at least a 14 point win, while losing the rebounding stat by a huge margin. Rebounding is a huge part of the game. But it only matters if you lose.

[The_Bionic_Pig]

"Play good defense, and the points will come"- Mike Anderson.

this literally is our philosophy.  Like Cauley Stein said, we "just ball". It only works sometimes and when it doesn't it fails miserably and consistently.  We just pass the ball around the 3 point line hoping someone might get open and then we have to just rely on having a good shooting night.

Even Bill Walton is saying that we only have pure athleticism and don't play smart basketball.

Arkansas attempted 8 3pointers
Wofford attempted 24

[JonClaudeVanHam]

Hogville:

Hogs win by 30
"That team sucked, we'll have to play better to beat a real team."

Hogs win by 3
"We suck. Should have won by 30."

[Michaelt]

I love ugly wins

Agreed

[oldhawgs]

When is Mike Anderson going to learn that rebounding is an essential part of the game? Literally no one was blocking out, they just stand around and wait for the ball to come to them or try to jump high to get it. It's just extremely frustrating because it's such a simple concept but Anderson refuses to emphasize the importance of it.

You should address that in your season end meeting with him Mr. Long. Lol! 

[Biggus Piggus]

When is Mike Anderson going to learn that rebounding is an essential part of the game? Literally no one was blocking out, they just stand around and wait for the ball to come to them or try to jump high to get it. It's just extremely frustrating because it's such a simple concept but Anderson refuses to emphasize the importance of it.

Holy friggin' crap. It's as though you never read anything, or at least don't retain it.

Refuse to teach you again. It is all about style. One team focusing all its energy on rebounding position, the other with other objectives that sometimes take precedence over rebounding position.

One team rebounded better, shot like crap and lost.

Please stop.

[hawg66]

Nolan went through all of this when he followed Sutton.  I can't believe that thirty years later we're still hearing it.  It's not your Grandpa's basketball, it's Hawgball.  Arkansas is one of thirty-two teams that will still be playing on Saturday and Sunday. 

Northeastern outrebounded Notre Dame 33-17, and lost
Baylor outrebounded Georgia state 40-22, and lost
Texas outrebounded Butler 41-28, and lost
Purdue outrebounded Cincinnatti 51-38, and lost
VCU outrebounded OSU 37-32, and lost

And most importantly, Wofford outrebounded Arkansas 37-35, and lost.

Kind of like time of possession in football.  A big deal for Bielema ball, not so much for
Art Briles' system.  if you build your team around rebounding and you lose that battle it can be a problem.  Anderson's whole deal with rebounds is let's don't do it so poorly that it becomes the deal breaker.  His last couple of Arkansas teams have had that problem, not so much this year.  Even UK didn't kill the Hogs on the glass.

[mhuff]

Yeah, and what did that get that team, a trip home?

Well yeah, but you have to admire those players and their coach. Some of that was just plain luck; the ball was just bouncing to them on every tip. Still, we haven't put a butt on anyone all season. I salute Portis..... he got in there and got some very important rebounds. Our opponent gave it all.

[mhuff]

There are only so many points of emphasis to go around;  all decisions have trade offs.  Our style of basketball generally sacrifices rebounding, in favor of other things which offer greater marginal utility.

Nolan's teams got out rebounded and we still won off points off TO's.

[ricepig]

Well yeah, but you have to admire those players and their coach. Some of that was just plain luck; the ball was just bouncing to them on every tip. Still, we haven't put a butt on anyone all season. I salute Portis..... he got in there and got some very important rebounds. Our opponent gave it all.

Madden had some important defensive rebounds late.

[Tomhog™]

Hogville:

Hogs win by 30
"That team sucked, we'll have to play better to beat a real team."

Hogs win by 3
"We suck. Should have won by 30."

QFT

[Cresthog]

Madden had some important defensive rebounds late.

Yea he was going Ham there at the end.

Looked like he cured his white man's disease on some of those.

[Swinesong1]

Hogville:

Hogs win by 30
"That team sucked, we'll have to play better to beat a real team."

Hogs win by 3
"We suck. Should have won by 30."

I would say that pretty much sums it up.

[Pig Worshipper]

If you're a basketball "purest", meaning that you like teams that play fundamentally sound basketball (IE. Screen and rolls, blocking out on shots, backdoor cuts, slow the tempo, 2-1-2 zones, short shorts and Chuck Taylor's...) you are never going to be able to enjoy the process of getting to the win, under Mike Anderson. You will have a winning basketball team to root for, but you are going to be pretty much miserable while watching the games. Try to enjoy the fact that our team has 27 wins and is in the round of 32...regardless of the route taken to get there.

I wish we could sticky your post. Excellent job.
This brand of basketball is a bit different than almost every other team in college basketball. It works better when you have a couple more good perimeter shooters than we have this year. That's one reason that this team can be very frustrating to watch at times. That's why I call this a "blue collar" basketball team - not many great offensive players but a good stable of hard workers. If you notice, this team has been unable to blow many teams out this year but because we play hard and have a decent core of players who understand the system, we've won more games than we have in a long time.
When you're not a great shooting team, this style of basketball can be very frustrating to watch. It's not going to change much though, as long as Mike Anderson is here. Expecting picture-perfect fundamentals, tons of great rebounding, etc. Is not what this style of b-ball is about.

[Danny J]

Hogville:

Hogs win by 30
"That team sucked, we'll have to play better to beat a real team."

Hogs win by 3
"We suck. Should have won by 30."

So true....hilarious

[HawgTrough]

I disagree with that quote. If you don't think there are things to learn from mistakes on victories than you're just being delusional. That quote essentially implies that there is nothing wrong with how the team played just because they won. I guarantee you Roy Williams doesn't see it that way. All he has to do is watch our game and emphasize to his team that our weakness is the boards and they will attack it and dominate us.

lmao @ thinking Roy Williams can coach

[PonderinHog]

So true....hilarious

I'm much more comfortable when we win by 10-12 points...

[JonClaudeVanHam]

I'm much more comfortable when we win by 10-12 points...

Those are the only moments when the board is quiet. No one said s!@# after the Vanderbilt game.

[Biggus Piggus]

Well yeah, but you have to admire those players and their coach. Some of that was just plain luck; the ball was just bouncing to them on every tip. Still, we haven't put a butt on anyone all season.

This is just plain wrong.

The Hogs' best rebounding games -- in real games --

45% offensive, 77% defensive against Alabama
27% offensive, 91% defensive against Iowa State
37% offensive, 75% defensive against Dayton
44% offensive, 69% defensive against Vanderbilt
41% offensive, 68% defensive at South Carolina
34% offensive, 72% defensive against Missouri (home)
37% offensive, 68% defensive against Georgia (SECT)
37% offensive, 68% defensive against Tennessee (SECT)
27% offensive, 72% defensive against Tennessee (home)

Also had some huge defensive rebounding numbers against Auburn and Mississippi State.

Problem is, emphasizing rebounds sometimes ruined the Hogs' defense. MA has been trying to find the right balance all season long. If players are working too hard on the boards, the defensive pressure relaxes. Some groupings have to work harder to rebound than others do. Some have to work harder to create pressure than others do. They do not have a mix of players who rebound well and play pressure D well too. Depending on who's on court, the Hogs have to shift emphasis, or suffer.

[BadHog]

Troll

Yep!

[regi]

We out rebounded LSU. How did that workout for us? We are badicly even on the boards with UK in 2 games. How did those games go?

None of us go to practice, but I am sure it is worked on. However, the emphasis of this program is physical pressure defense and always will be with Coach A. If you don't like it. It is going to suck for you till he is gone.

No Hog coaches team believed more and worked harder at rebounding than Heath's teams. Anybody know how his career is going....

[Jamie Jones]

I'm going to just leave this right here...

Baylor out rebounded GSU 40 to 22 and outshot GSU 44% to 41% (3 pt 37% to 31% FT's 84% to 62%) But the game was lost because Georgia State won the turnover battle 21 to 6 and the steals battle 13 to 2.

Defense is what our style is about. And the above stat line would be typical of one of our games. The team that has the most scoring chances (not from offensive rebounds but from possessions that the other team didn't even get a shot off) will usually win. I will take our chances if we win the TO battle because we usually get easy buckets.

[Cresthog]

lmao @ thinking Roy Williams can coach

I fuggin hate Roy.

Is there any worse asshat in all of CBB?

[opineonswine]

Madden had some important defensive rebounds late.

Yes he did..pure effort and desire.

[ricepig]

Yes he did..pure effort and desire.

As some said, at about the 5:00 Mark, he decided it wasn't going to be his last college game.

[ricepig]

I fuggin hate Roy.

Is there any worse asshat in all of CBB?

Calipari??

[AWHAWG]

so just because we were extremely lucky to steal the win, this problem should just be completely ignored? Sweet logic

Yes! talk about it when we lose there will be plenty of ears for you. The number one stat when you win is the score.

[rude1]

For it is better to win the rebounding battle than it is to win the game........Trash can

[Cresthog]

Calipari??

Man at least Calipari is what he is. Doesn't play that holier than though crap like Roy.

Roy looks like my 90 year old grandpa trying to pull off those big pin stripe suits. He looks like a jackass.

[HogInThaGrove]

We could probably stand to do a better job rebounding if the pressure defense isn't forcing turnovers as it wasn't yesterday.  That said, we got out rebounded by 2.  If we were talking 10-15, I'd be a bit more upset.  But also, that being said, Woffard had a ton of heart and seemed to want the game more than us up until the 5 minute mark when we figured out that they weren't gonna fold.  Qualls was the only bright spot.  But Bobby's 15 points were a direct reflection of his rebounding.  So you gotta take the good with the bad.  Yes, I wish they'd put their butts on someone and block out better, but I also enjoy the long outlet passes and fast transition offense. 

[popcornhog]

When is Mike Anderson going to learn that rebounding is an essential part of the game? Literally no one was blocking out, they just stand around and wait for the ball to come to them or try to jump high to get it. It's just extremely frustrating because it's such a simple concept but Anderson refuses to emphasize the importance of it.

Don't get me wrong, it often frustrates me, too. But when we get to tourney time it's just about wins and losses. And we haven't been here in so long, I'd rather save the rebounding complaints for the off season.

We do hit the offensive glass pretty well though. It's the defensive glass where we struggle. And Bobby did hve like 12 boards, so there are some positives.

[Biggus Piggus]

By the way, trying to analyze rebounding by comparing sum totals of offensive and defensive boards is usually nonsense. You have to compare defensive rebounds with the other team's offensive rebounds, and similar thing on the other end. Anything better than 67% defensive and 33% offensive is good. Sometimes it's a great rebounding game on one end and not the other. Sometimes a whole bunch of offensive rebounds is meaningless, symptom of a bad shooting night.

[The_Iceman]

"We won the game, but we didn't rebound well."

Seriously? You people are nuts. We won the frickin' game.

[Biggus Piggus]

Don't get me wrong, it often frustrates me, too. But when we get to tourney time it's just about wins and losses. And we haven't been here in so long, I'd rather save the rebounding complaints for the off season.

We do hit the offensive glass pretty well though. It's the defensive glass where we struggle. And Bobby did hve like 12 boards, so there are some positives.

You are correct -- Arkansas ranks in the top 40 nationally in offensive rebounding %. Averages only 66% on the defensive end. Believe it or not, that 66% is one of the best numbers a Nolan/Anderson team has put up. Might be the best -- don't have the numbers in front of me. It's a style thing. Pressure defense means not always being in position for defensive rebounds.

Eddie Sutton had a similar, less severe but similar, issue when he was Arkansas coach. Sutton taught ball-denial man-to-man defense. That style is intended to disrupt the ability of the offense to pass the ball. Also produces steals -- Darrell Walker and Alvin Robertson were a smothering defensive combination in that style. In that style, nobody was going to rack up a huge rebounding total. Thinking about boards before defense would cripple the D. Sutton never had a great rebounding team at Arkansas.

[hobhog]

Damn. And here I was thinking we won......

[HawgnCorona]

Like someone else said, If you are a purest. Then you arent going to like like hawgball...You had best find another team to root for beacause we dont play the game according HANK IBA et al...

We have or should have better and more conditioned athletes to change the course of the way the game is played...and still be fundamentally sound in what we do.

[spahoopsfan]

There are only so many points of emphasis to go around;  all decisions have trade offs.  Our style of basketball generally sacrifices rebounding, in favor of other things which offer greater marginal utility.

I understand this.  What drives me crazy, but I'm not the coach, but a die hard stressed out fan, is when portis switches (when he doesn't need to) on the point guard 25' from the basket and leaves a guard like Beard to guard the big man in the post.  he result is the guard going right around Portis like he isn't there and having the guard worry about two guys.
He reward of Portis switching seldom happens where as the risk happens way way too often.
I do not remember the center such as the Big O guarding a point guard 25' from the basket in Nolan's system.  Of course I do remember gambling and trapping that would cost us an easy basket but not the switching causing so many miss matches and easy buckets.

[hawg66]

Anderson went to switching on all screens about midseason, when teams were getting too many looks and draining too many three's.  Not like he was coaching or anything though, just happened on it.

It's actually worked pretty well, the on ball pressure prevents an easy entry into the mismatch down low, and then the Hogs switch back when they can.

[gmarv]

you would think some people would start enjoying this year before its over.we are one loss away from them having any unexceptable things to complain about.

[southarkhog06]

It's always the coaches fault......let me change that. It's always CMA's fault. Now with the football team and our lack of being able to throw the football it's BA's fault. It's not the head coaches fault in that situation. I'm sure it has nothing to do with anything outside of that I'm sure.

I am with you on CMA. I still don't understand you and a few other posters need to always bring up the football team in these threads.

1. It is two completely different situations
2. This is the Basketball Forum

[Corkscrew Johnson]

Defense played great.  Those guys had to work their ass
off for every bucket and made some difficult shots.  It is no miracle or coincidence that they folded up in the last 5 minutes.  Go hogs go.

[Youngsta71701]

When is Mike Anderson going to learn that rebounding is an essential part of the game? Literally no one was blocking out, they just stand around and wait for the ball to come to them or try to jump high to get it. It's just extremely frustrating because it's such a simple concept but Anderson refuses to emphasize the importance of it.

I would rather get out rebounded and win rather than out rebound the other team and lose.

[Youngsta71701]

how is that considered a troll? You people really don't think there are things that can be learned and built off of from an ugly win?

There are things that can be learned from every game win or lose. And I'm sure he talks about them. Have you never heard him say that we have to rebound better? I have plenty of time. It's not like he can go out there on the court and do it for them.

[azhog10]

Well yeah, but you have to admire those players and their coach. Some of that was just plain luck; the ball was just bouncing to them on every tip. Still, we haven't put a butt on anyone all season. I salute Portis..... he got in there and got some very important rebounds. Our opponent gave it all.

Portis also gave up both wide open threes at the end of the game.