Getting Out-Rebounded by the Smallest Team in the Tournament is Unacceptable

[RzRbAcK18]

Only one stat matters, "W". With that said, I always notice a lot of standing around, however its hard to critique a team who is winning. If Portis comes out of his slump and Qualls keeps it up, I like us in the elite 8. Portis had 15 points and 13 rebounds, a heck of a game for anyone else. He did it ugly and quiet but I will take it. If he churns out a 25+ point game look out. This is our offense, it works. Could work better but it works.

[HawgTrough]

I fuggin hate Roy.

Is there any worse asshat in all of CBB?

He is certainly on Mount Douchemore

[mhsbc59]

"Coaches only look at stat sheets when they lose."
                                              --Nolan Richardson

And "BOOM" goes the dynamite

[mhsbc59]

I disagree with that quote. If you don't think there are things to learn from mistakes on victories than you're just being delusional. That quote essentially implies that there is nothing wrong with how the team played just because they won. I guarantee you Roy Williams doesn't see it that way. All he has to do is watch our game and emphasize to his team that our weakness is the boards and they will attack it and dominate us.

Good teams usually take away a strength not a weakness

[azhog10]

I am with you on CMA. I still don't understand you and a few other posters need to always bring up the football team in these threads.

1. It is two completely different situations
2. This is the Basketball Forum

I could bring up baseball, but I don't follow it as much. I bring up football bc they are both U of A sports, and this is a U of A message board where the majority of threads I read are either about football or basketball. Sorry that you don't understand it, but I think it's pretty straight forward. Not sure why you say they are completely different situations unless you are saying the two sports are different. I do agree there. But there isn't much difference from that. They are both College Head Coaches in major sports that were successful from somewhere else.

If you are implying the Nolan situation, I don't think that's fair to CMA bc he wasn't Nolan, and he had nothing to do with that. I'm saying we should treat all our coaches the same. If everytime they lose, then we should be saying they got outcoached since that's what we say about CMA. Or, if we do think the players have some responsibility to it, then lets put some responsibility on them. Heck CMA doesn't even lose and we are going crazy at him. CBB comes close to winning and game and we are ready to give him a raise.

[daBoar]

When is Mike Anderson going to learn that rebounding is an essential part of the game? Literally no one was blocking out, they just stand around and wait for the ball to come to them or try to jump high to get it. It's just extremely frustrating because it's such a simple concept but Anderson refuses to emphasize the importance of it.

Wofford bested the Hogs 14-8 in offensive rebounds.  That's sort of a stunning stat since they were such a tiny team.  While Qualls had a great offensive game, he only had 3 RBs.  It wasn't the Hogs best game; but they won against a solid opponent.

[seasonhog]

This is just plain wrong.

The Hogs' best rebounding games -- in real games --

45% offensive, 77% defensive against Alabama
27% offensive, 91% defensive against Iowa State
37% offensive, 75% defensive against Dayton
44% offensive, 69% defensive against Vanderbilt
41% offensive, 68% defensive at South Carolina
34% offensive, 72% defensive against Missouri (home)
37% offensive, 68% defensive against Georgia (SECT)
37% offensive, 68% defensive against Tennessee (SECT)
27% offensive, 72% defensive against Tennessee (home)

Also had some huge defensive rebounding numbers against Auburn and Mississippi State.

Problem is, emphasizing rebounds sometimes ruined the Hogs' defense. MA has been trying to find the right balance all season long. If players are working too hard on the boards, the defensive pressure relaxes. Some groupings have to work harder to rebound than others do. Some have to work harder to create pressure than others do. They do not have a mix of players who rebound well and play pressure D well too. Depending on who's on court, the Hogs have to shift emphasis, or suffer.

What we can learn from the April 4th 1994 Championship game against Duke.....

Duke...                                                  Ark.....
FG %....29 OF 65...446                      30 OF 77....390
FT %.....7 OF 11.....636                      11OF 19.....579
REB  .....44                                           44
AST.......6                                              8
3 pt fieldgoals...7-20..                         5-18
TURNOVERS ...23                               12

Defense wins big games....as we can see from the '94' game...Duke had 23 turnovers, but we also reb. [ 44 ].

The last half of this season....our defense is why we are were we are.

Portis, has to get hot scoring.

[Swinesong1]

I could bring up baseball, but I don't follow it as much. I bring up football bc they are both U of A sports, and this is a U of A message board where the majority of threads I read are either about football or basketball. Sorry that you don't understand it, but I think it's pretty straight forward. Not sure why you say they are completely different situations unless you are saying the two sports are different. I do agree there. But there isn't much difference from that. They are both College Head Coaches in major sports that were successful from somewhere else.

If you are implying the Nolan situation, I don't think that's fair to CMA bc he wasn't Nolan, and he had nothing to do with that. I'm saying we should treat all our coaches the same. If everytime they lose, then we should be saying they got outcoached since that's what we say about CMA. Or, if we do think the players have some responsibility to it, then lets put some responsibility on them. Heck CMA doesn't even lose and we are going crazy at him. CBB comes close to winning and game and we are ready to give him a raise.

You can shout this from the mountaintops and it won't matter.  Lots of code words and phrases used when it comes to Anderson.  But, footballers won two conference games in two years tho and the coach is great.

[lrcentral]

We played slow down basketball and still got the win. Wait till Carolina tries to out run us. We are gonna blow their doors off.

[hammy davis jr]

Nolan's teams couldn't rebound either and they won a national championship.

[ricepig]

You can shoot this from the mountaintops and it won't matter.  Lots of code words and phrases used when it comes to Anderson.  But, footballers won two conference games in two years tho and the coach is great.

Lol

[Swinesong1]

Lol

why does autocorrect type what it wants?

[HawgnCorona]

You can shout this from the mountaintops and it won't matter.  Lots of code words and phrases used when it comes to Anderson.  But, footballers won two conference games in two years tho and the coach is great.

To be honest--not trying to derail your thread, OP-but there has been quite a bit of complaining amongst the fan base for both programs.

[ricepig]

why does autocorrect type what it wants?

Because all it sees is black and white.

[Swinesong1]

Because all it sees is black and white.

touche

[HawgnCorona]

Let your "eye" be single gentlemen...

[Biggus Piggus]

Wofford bested the Hogs 14-8 in offensive rebounds.  That's sort of a stunning stat since they were such a tiny team.  While Qualls had a great offensive game, he only had 3 RBs.  It wasn't the Hogs best game; but they won against a solid opponent.

That in isolation is a gibberish statistic. Didn't I just get done saying you have to compare one team's offensive rebounds with the other team's defensive rebounds?

On Wofford's end, Arkansas got 66% of the boards, Wofford 34%.

On Arkansas's end, Arkansas got 26% of the boards, Wofford 74%.

Their all-out emphasis on defensive rebounding kept Arkansas -- normally an excellent offensive rebounding team -- off the boards for the most part. The Hogs had an average game for them on the defensive boards. Exactly their season average, 66%.

MA had the Hogs avoid gambling for steals, instead working hard to sustain tight man-to-man and avoid leaving people open. The results were few forced turnovers but very good field goal % defense.

[HogWild7886]

Winning is just unacceptable

[PonderinHog]

I WANT STYLE POINTS!   

[wupigsuey]

I guess we should ignore the fact that we are the 3rd smallest team in the tourny

[Inhogswetrust]

I've never understood the thought that your opponent missing shots is pure luck..........IF true then isn't it luck when someone HITS a shot?

In my 57 years I bet I've seen over a hundred buzzer beater shots to win by teams......................Sometimes people say "great shot", other times they say "lucky shot". So it's a MADE shot just like a MISSED shot, neither lucky or great 99% of the time.................

[hillhog]

"Coaches only look at stat sheets when they lose."
                                              --Nolan Richardson

A dumb concept. Why not look at what enabled a win?

[hammer66]

I'll take winning in points over rebounds every time!
[/quote

I'll take winning in points over rebounds every time!

This is the correct answer according to Nolan. We were out rebounded in many games in 94. I can remember him saying this exact thing many times when asked in interviews. A few times the reporter would have the same opinion that collins4heisman has and Nolan would rip into them about finding the negatives of the game instead of focusing on the positive things that his system created which allowed opponents to have an advantage in the rebounding department.
It's too bad Nolan isn't a poster on this board, after he got done with Collins we would never hear from him again!

[Biggus Piggus]

A dumb concept. Why not look at what enabled a win?

"I don't understand coachspeak."
--hillhog

[rude1]

A dumb concept. Why not look at what enabled a win?

I mean yeah what would a multiple hall of fame coach know about coaching the game? You obviously would know better how to use a stat sheet!!!

[daBoar]

That in isolation is a gibberish statistic. Didn't I just get done saying you have to compare one team's offensive rebounds with the other team's defensive rebounds?

Now, that's a silly comment.  My point underscores the fact that the Hogs were out of place for (or ignoring) rebounds against a much smaller team.  The score didn't need to be a nailbiter; and that's what the Op was intimating.

[Deep Shoat]

You can shout this from the mountaintops and it won't matter.  Lots of code words and phrases used when it comes to Anderson.  But, footballers won two conference games in two years tho and the coach is great.

There aren't any "code words".  Nobody outside of Harrison gives a crap what color Mike is.  The issue is the fact that we look lost when we lose (because we don't play a traditional style) and most people only understand one type of basketball even after all these years of Hawgball.

Stop being such a dramatist. 

[hog.goblin]

There aren't any "code words".  Nobody outside of Harrison gives a crap what color Mike is.  The issue is the fact that we look lost when we lose (because we don't play a traditional style) and most people only understand one type of basketball even after all these years of Hawgball.

Stop being such a dramatist. 

Many of us from Harrison don't care about the color of his skin either.  He has great support over there, as did Nolan.

[TomBigBeeHog]

We are badicly even on the boards with UK in 2 games.

Is badicily something like badussy?   

[regi]

Like someone else said, If you are a purest. Then you arent going to like like hawgball...You had best find another team to root for beacause we dont play the game according HANK IBA et al...

We have or should have better and more conditioned athletes to change the course of the way the game is played...and still be fundamentally sound in what we do.

Amen, as the kids say, "it is what it is".

[Swinesong1]

There aren't any "code words".  Nobody outside of Harrison gives a crap what color Mike is.  The issue is the fact that we look lost when we lose (because we don't play a traditional style) and most people only understand one type of basketball even after all these years of Hawgball.

Stop being such a dramatist.

Found one!

[regi]

Is badicily something like badussy?   

also works with badtang

[Hogfaniam]

Nolan's teams couldn't rebound either and they won a national championship.

This is a false narrative not based on fact.  Most years, we were within 1 to 2 Rpg. Some years, we even averaged more than the opposition.  The champ yr we were +1.1.  The worst year was 92/93 at -5.6 when Corliss missed several games.

[ChicoHog]

Madden had some important defensive rebounds late.

Yes he did.  Nice job on the boards late in the game. 

[ChicoHog]

This is a false narrative not based on fact.  Most years, we were within 1 to 2 Rpg. Some years, we even averaged more than the opposition.  The champ yr we were +1.1.  The worst year was 92/93 at -5.6 when Corliss missed several games.

Great point.  Just because you play fast and press and trap does not mean you can't rebound.  Just have to focus on blocking out when the shot goes up. 

I still believe shooting percentage is the most important stat in winning. 

[Biggus Piggus]

Now, that's a silly comment.  My point underscores the fact that the Hogs were out of place for (or ignoring) rebounds against a much smaller team.  The score didn't need to be a nailbiter; and that's what the Op was intimating.

Good lord. You are as dense as a stone.

[nextlevel]

This is a false narrative not based on fact.  Most years, we were within 1 to 2 Rpg. Some years, we even averaged more than the opposition.  The champ yr we were +1.1.  The worst year was 92/93 at -5.6 when Corliss missed several games.

Rebounds is a useless statistic the way the stat is compiled.

Quinnipec has been one of the best rebounding teams in the country, according to the stat, what has that gotten them?

Several "elite" teams are barely top 75-100 each year in the stat.

Even when you split the stat to each end of the court, the significance of the stat is vastly over-rated.

People like to point towards defensive rebounds as they are "stops to possessions" while ignoring the various other ways a possession can be stopped.

They point to offensive rebounds as "extra possession" ignoring that countless boards can be tabulated from multiple point blank misses in a sequence of a few seconds.

[Hogfaniam]

Rebounds is a useless statistic the way the stat is compiled.

Quinnipec has been one of the best rebounding teams in the country, according to the stat, what has that gotten them?

Several "elite" teams are barely top 75-100 each year in the stat.

Even when you split the stat to each end of the court, the significance of the stat is vastly over-rated.

People like to point towards defensive rebounds as they are "stops to possessions" while ignoring the various other ways a possession can be stopped.

They point to offensive rebounds as "extra possession" ignoring that countless boards can be tabulated from multiple point blank misses in a sequence of a few seconds.

19 points from a second chance to shoot.  Only two points were a tip in.  It made the game a lot more exciting than it should've been. 

But, hey, they missed the last two extra shots they got.  So, who cares.  Better than sitting there watching us shoot free throw after free throw because we had a big lead.  Who wants that?

[nextlevel]

19 points from a second chance to shoot.  Only two points were a tip in.  It made the game a lot more exciting than it should've been. 

But, hey, they missed the last two extra shots they got.  So, who cares.  Better than sitting there watching us shoot free throw after free throw because we had a big lead.  Who wants that?

Nothing was specifically pointed towards this past game, it was largely pointed to the rebounding straw man that is so popular on message boards.

If you want to talk about Wofford specifically, their leading rebounder is a guard, not a coincidence with a team that shoots the three as often as they do and face similar teams on their schedule, the offense has the advantage of long shots equaling long rebounds especially against a team like Arkansas who is looking to create transition baskets (guards looking to cheat towards their goal).

If you want to talk specifics, then we can also talk about Quinnipec and how they have led the country in rebounding several times over the past few years, its as simple as they are poor shooting team who has a schedule full of poor shooting teams missed shots equal rebounding opportunities for some one.

Good shooting teams with other good shooting teams on their schedule are "poor rebounding teams" according to the stat.

The above two examples is why the stat is a pointless stat and the importance given to the stat considering the way the stat is compiled is misleading at best.

[Dirty]

Portis had 13 rebounds!

[Cooper2]

When is Mike Anderson going to learn that rebounding is an essential part of the game? Literally no one was blocking out, they just stand around and wait for the ball to come to them or try to jump high to get it. It's just extremely frustrating because it's such a simple concept but Anderson refuses to emphasize the importance of it.

Lighten up, Francis!!

When you take three teams to the NCAA, have a couple of sweet sixteen's and an elite eight under your belt, then your advice for coach Anderson might seem appropriate. Until then, let Mike Anderson coach the team, he's done an amazing job thus far and its only going to get better... Regardless, and to the chagrin of a few on here, Mike isn't going anywhere...

[Hogfaniam]

Nothing was specifically pointed towards this past game, it was largely pointed to the rebounding straw man that is so popular on message boards.

If you want to talk about Wofford specifically, their leading rebounder is a guard, not a coincidence with a team that shoots the three as often as they do and face similar teams on their schedule, the offense has the advantage of long shots equaling long rebounds especially against a team like Arkansas who is looking to create transition baskets (guards looking to cheat towards their goal).

If you want to talk specifics, then we can also talk about Quinnipec and how they have led the country in rebounding several times over the past few years, its as simple as they are poor shooting team who has a schedule full of poor shooting teams missed shots equal rebounding opportunities for some one.

Good shooting teams with other good shooting teams on their schedule are "poor rebounding teams" according to the stat.

The above two examples is why the stat is a pointless stat and the importance given to the stat considering the way the stat is compiled is misleading at best.

Limiting a poor shooting team to one shot is not pointless.

You can try to explain it away any way you want.  Justify it, whatever.  Wofford scored 19 points because they got extra chances to shoot after they missed the first time.  When a shot is missed, either we get it or they get it.  We should have the advantage of being in the proper position due to the fact we are on defense. 

It didn't cost us the game this time, but it prevented winning by a more comfortable margin is all I'm saying.

[nextlevel]

Limiting a poor shooting team to one shot is not pointless.

You can try to explain it away any way you want.  Justify it, whatever.  Wofford scored 19 points because they got extra chances to shoot after they missed the first time.  When a shot is missed, either we get it or they get it.  We should have the advantage of being in the proper position due to the fact we are on defense. 

It didn't cost us the game this time, but it prevented winning by a more comfortable margin is all I'm saying.

Wofford isn't a "poor shooting team".

You know what really kept the margin close?

Arkansas shooting well below their average at the line and from the line.

You can place your importance on getting a ball after a shot, but I will defer a better alternative is to get the ball back before a shot.

50% chance of scoring compared to a 0% chance in the possession.

[MountieDawg]

Winning is all that matters in the NCAAT.  Survive and Advance!!!

[Hogfaniam]

Wofford isn't a "poor shooting team".

You know what really kept the margin close?

Arkansas shooting well below their average at the line and from the line.

You can place your importance on getting a ball after a shot, but I will defer a better alternative is to get the ball back before a shot.

50% chance of scoring compared to a 0% chance in the possession.

Well, of course.  But we didn't with our normal level of success.  The next option is limit second chances.

[nextlevel]

Well, of course.  But we didn't with our normal level of success.  The next option is limit second chances.

So it is moot because it wasn't the "normal level of success", but this whole thread exists based on the "normal level of success" not being achieved in another area?

Weird.

[nextlevel]

Winning is all that matters in the NCAAT.  Survive and Advance!!!

I do not believe any one remembers us struggling with a 15 seed a couple weeks before we played for a NC...

[Hogfaniam]

I do not believe any one remembers us struggling with a 15 seed a couple weeks before we played for a NC...

That was the next year against Texas Southern.  Dwight Stewart saved our bacon.  Oh, yeah, we allowed 14 second chances that game.  Good thing we forced 23 TO.

[nextlevel]

That was the next year against Texas Southern.  Dwight Stewart saved our bacon.  Oh, yeah, we allowed 14 second chances that game.  Good thing we forced 23 TO.

We played for a NC that year.

[Hogfaniam]

We played for a NC that year.

That's true.  My bad.