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Barford, Macon, and the NBA

Started by sadhogfan, February 19, 2018, 09:42:44 pm

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sadhogfan

A cursory search showed me that neither Barford nor Macon are anywhere on NBA draft lists. What is keeping them from being viable NBA prospects?

Barford has greatly improved his outside shot, hits incredibly difficult shots, penetrates well and finishes in traffic. He is a little short for an NBA shooting guard, but not bad, has good size and athleticism. He's also a really good defender...when he wants to be.

Macon is a big-time shotmaker, and has NBA range. He penetrates well and has a good first step. Not a pure point guard by any stretch, but a solid facilitator for a shooting guard. Like Barford, he has decent size and athleticism, though he is not as strong. His defense is not great against penetrating guards, but he has quick hands and could, I think, become a better defender.

In short, I don't see why these guys are nowhere on draft boards. I know that BJ Young wasn't exactly an NBA success, but he was at least PROJECTED to be drafted, but both of these guys have a much better offensive game and are more interested defenders as well (saying a lot for a couple of JUCOs).

daprospecta

Quote from: sadhogfan on February 19, 2018, 09:42:44 pm
A cursory search showed me that neither Barford nor Macon are anywhere on NBA draft lists. What is keeping them from being viable NBA prospects?

Barford has greatly improved his outside shot, hits incredibly difficult shots, penetrates well and finishes in traffic. He is a little short for an NBA shooting guard, but not bad, has good size and athleticism. He's also a really good defender...when he wants to be.

Macon is a big-time shotmaker, and has NBA range. He penetrates well and has a good first step. Not a pure point guard by any stretch, but a solid facilitator for a shooting guard. Like Barford, he has decent size and athleticism, though he is not as strong. His defense is not great against penetrating guards, but he has quick hands and could, I think, become a better defender.

In short, I don't see why these guys are nowhere on draft boards. I know that BJ Young wasn't exactly an NBA success, but he was at least PROJECTED to be drafted, but both of these guys have a much better offensive game and are more interested defenders as well (saying a lot for a couple of JUCOs).
IMO both will have to show in prove in the summer league. Going into this year,  I thought Barford was the better NBA prospect but I think Macon has a slight edge over him.  I think both will be  paid handsomely overseas either way.

 

mhuff

Quote from: daprospecta on February 19, 2018, 10:11:15 pm
IMO both will have to show in prove in the summer league. Going into this year,  I thought Barford was the better NBA prospect but I think Macon has a slight edge over him.  I think both will be  paid handsomely overseas either way.

BannerMountainMan

Barford should be an NBA prospect for sure, he has some of the best skill sets in college basketball right now, not many players can make the shots he can, they'll find out when he makes the G league and averages 30 points a game because no defense
"Michael Qualls with the dunk at the buzzer, it goes and Arkansas wins, it goes and Arkansas wins"

upperdeck_hawg

I think both can make a roster if they get into the right team. Obviously they would be role players. Barford's handles aren't good enough and his outside shooting is still inconsistent. Macon is a little slow on d and his decision making with the ball is sometimes questionable. They both can provide instant offense off the bench though.
I don't hate the guy.  He's a great Hog, and a needed contributor.  I despise that he does not understand his role as a complimentary player puts an absolute ceiling on this team.

-ErieHog on Devo Davis

pigture perfect

Barford already has an NBA body. He's built like a truck. maybe a barFord.
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razorback1829

Barford translates better to the NBA IMO. Finishes in transition at an elite level, can finish through contact, and has an array of step back moves that he can get off. Moves pretty good laterally, and is chiseled. Has to work on creating more for others.

Hog_Fink

neither of them pass and they aren't good enough scorers to be microwaves. If Courtney Fortson couldn't cut it, I doubt they'd sniff the league, but sure they'd carve out a good career overseas

BannerMountainMan

Quote from: galactivation on February 19, 2018, 11:49:14 pm
neither of them pass and they aren't good enough scorers to be microwaves. If Courtney Fortson couldn't cut it, I doubt they'd sniff the league, but sure they'd carve out a good career overseas
Barford is twice the player Fortson was, Fortson was just more of a PG
"Michael Qualls with the dunk at the buzzer, it goes and Arkansas wins, it goes and Arkansas wins"

Hog_Fink

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on February 19, 2018, 11:53:16 pm
Barford is twice the player Fortson was, Fortson was just more of a PG

idk about that. need to compare stats, Fortson has made a really good career in China

swinesation

Quote from: galactivation on February 19, 2018, 11:49:14 pm
neither of them pass and they aren't good enough scorers to be microwaves. If Courtney Fortson couldn't cut it, I doubt they'd sniff the league, but sure they'd carve out a good career overseas

Macon doesn't pass??

SemperHawg

It's a league where ball dominant guards are a dime a dozen.  It doesn't mean they both aren't fine basketball players, there is just over saturation of their skill set at that position in the league.  I'm sure they will both get a shot to be on a roster, but weather or not they make it will be more dependent on fit and situation.  I hate it for both of them, and I will be rooting for both of them for the rest of their careers.  Scoring guards in the NBA right now are like RB's in the NFL, only the top of the top end talent garner high draft picks.

Gafford on the other hand, is a completely different story.


The_Iceman

As good of a shooter people say Macon is, keep in mind:

Barford: 45% 3pt shooter on 148 attempts.

Macon: 43% 3pt shooter on 166 attempts.

Barford is bigger than Macon, and id say can score inside the 3pt line better than Macon (49% vs. 46% on field goals overall).

 

RazorWest

Quote from: daprospecta on February 19, 2018, 10:11:15 pm
IMO both will have to show in prove in the summer league. Going into this year,  I thought Barford was the better NBA prospect but I think Macon has a slight edge over him.  I think both will be  paid handsomely overseas either way.

For them to be paid "handsomely overseas" they will have to prove themselves working for peanuts first.  The players that make a lot of money overseas are typically players that tasted the NBA or worked themselves up thru the ranks.  If Barford and Macon don't make an NBA squad they are going to be eating Ramen for a while

razorback1829

Quote from: RazorWest on February 20, 2018, 09:24:46 am
For them to be paid "handsomely overseas" they will have to prove themselves working for peanuts first.  The players that make a lot of money overseas are typically players that tasted the NBA or worked themselves up thru the ranks.  If Barford and Macon don't make an NBA squad they are going to be eating Ramen for a while

Lol nah they'll get good jobs straight out of college in a top league. First team all SEC and both can score, which is what they want from Americans overseas. They'll be eating what they want... trust me.

Little Lady Back

Quote from: The_Iceman on February 20, 2018, 09:20:30 am
As good of a shooter people say Macon is, keep in mind:

Barford: 45% 3pt shooter on 148 attempts.

Macon: 43% 3pt shooter on 166 attempts.

Barford is bigger than Macon, and id say can score inside the 3pt line better than Macon (49% vs. 46% on field goals overall).

I agree with Iceman on this. Barford is definitely more physical and stronger driving inside the 3.   
#NolanRichardsonCourt

txkhog

Lack of size and defense are the liabilities that will keep both out of the NBA. Love them both as Hogs but can't see either in the league.

Arazorbackguy1

Quote from: pigture perfect on February 19, 2018, 11:17:23 pm
Barford already has an NBA body. He's built like a truck. maybe a barFord.
Zing!
I have 10 to 12 points to make per game.

niels_boar

Barford and Macon should both be getting a lot of consideration for first-team All-SEC.  They have been the two most efficient guards on O in SEC play. Macon got screwed out of second-team All-SEC last year.

I think Barford is an NBA player.  Macon is similar to a player like Malcolm Delaney of Atlanta.  He's a shooter that can distribute.  Both can make treys with efficiency off the dribble, which is a valuable commodity in the NBA.  I wouldn't count out either as playing in the NBA at some point.

Fortson has improved his shooting in China. I'm surprised no NBA team has brought him back.  Mediocre perimeter shooter at his size was his weakness.
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ErieHog

Barford is a tad shortish for a 2 and usually projects as a combo guard.  Its not about getting his own shot, for sure-- its about distribution and ball security to some degree, as they have to bring more Point skills to the table than a pure SG

Macon doesn't have a projectable body, in terms of bulking up, though the other aspects of his game are more NBA ready.

Both are NBA projects.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

PygmalionEffect2

Macon reminds me of Beverly when he was here. 

Been a while back so may be mis-remembering, but I remember Beverly being thin and was very surprised at the success he's had in the NBA, thinking he was too small as well.

He probably showed better defensive skills than Macon while here.

Quickness and speed, Macon is pretty fast, but don't watch enough pro ball to compare him with Beverly there.  I suspect Beverly is faster at this point in his career.

I see Macon and Barford making good money outside the NBA with maybe a chance to latch on later like Beverly did.
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ErieHog

Quote from: PygmalionEffect2 on February 20, 2018, 12:39:34 pm
Macon reminds me of Beverly when he was here. 

Been a while back so may be mis-remembering, but I remember Beverly being thin and was very surprised at the success he's had in the NBA, thinking he was too small as well.

He probably showed better defensive skills than Macon while here.

Quickness and speed, Macon is pretty fast, but don't watch enough pro ball to compare him with Beverly there.  I suspect Beverly is faster at this point in his career.

I see Macon and Barford making good money outside the NBA with maybe a chance to latch on later like Beverly did.

Beverly was lean, but muscular and sturdy.  You could see his wiry strength in his tenacity as a rebounder.

Its not a very good comp, in terms of projectability.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

RazorPiggie

Neither will make the NBA. If Gafford doesn't develop a decent shot he won't make it either.

rude1

Shooting guards in NBA point guards body, doesn't translate well. Add to that, very poor defensively, I watched Barford closely tonight and he is absolutely horrible on defense, loses his man, leaves his man for not needed double and gets burned from 3, and generally just seems totally disinterested on the defensive end. Macon isn't far behind, they both tend not to be too interested in playing defense.

 

HeyHogs

Barford is an overseas player at best.  Macon can make an NBA squad and be a good practice player.

BassinHawg

They showed why they are not NBA material against Kentucky. They are really good college players though.
"It is what it is." has replaced "Yesssss Sirrrrr!!!!"

lookawayquick

Tonight was a good audition for pro ball.  Cats have pro players.  Look at his stats, Barford didn't scratch.  Poor shooting, assist was a dirty word and no defense won't impress the scouts.  Barford seems to be going in reverse.

zebradynasty

Macon can flat out shoot his body isn't built to carry a lot more weight but he can add some. Barford is a good shooter but to me he's more of a scorer. I think it will be tough for either to make a NBA team because of their size.

PygmalionEffect2

Macon is the best pro prospect of the two at this point.

His game held up a lot better against NBA type athleticism tonight than did Barford's.

Barford is not NBA material, just doesn't have a well-rounded game.  He's been pressing all year for stats and it's hurt the team.
President Donald Trump, on "60 Minutes," Nov. 13, 2016
"Facebook and Twitter were the reason we won this thing."

Hannity - This Nunes memo is going to make Watergate look like someone stole a candy bar.

lasthog

Quote from: RazorPiggie on February 20, 2018, 10:23:52 pm
Neither will make the NBA. If Gafford doesn't develop a decent shot he won't make it either.

I would give my right arm to be Gafford's agent.

GoHogs1091

In the NBA, 6'3" Guards who try to play hero ball are a dime-a-dozen.

It also won't help Barford and Macon regarding the fact that apparently at the UofA the basketball offensive system is a hodge podge of unstructured street type ball (according to comments by Bobby Portis after Portis found out what he had missed out on regarding lack of fundamentally sound offensive basketball while at the UofA).

Hog_Fink

I dont understand how this is even a question. I think they were overly anxious & getting bad advice or pressure to come out last year.

I dont see either of them getting drafted. they will get invites to fill out summer league rosters, but ball dominant guards that don't pass well, launch contested jumpers & played in a system with no offensive structure just aren't NBA material.
maybe I'm missing something.
not trying to dawg the kids.

nwahogfan1

Quote from: sadhogfan on February 19, 2018, 09:42:44 pm
A cursory search showed me that neither Barford nor Macon are anywhere on NBA draft lists. What is keeping them from being viable NBA prospects?

Barford has greatly improved his outside shot, hits incredibly difficult shots, penetrates well and finishes in traffic. He is a little short for an NBA shooting guard, but not bad, has good size and athleticism. He's also a really good defender...when he wants to be.

Macon is a big-time shotmaker, and has NBA range. He penetrates well and has a good first step. Not a pure point guard by any stretch, but a solid facilitator for a shooting guard. Like Barford, he has decent size and athleticism, though he is not as strong. His defense is not great against penetrating guards, but he has quick hands and could, I think, become a better defender.

In short, I don't see why these guys are nowhere on draft boards. I know that BJ Young wasn't exactly an NBA success, but he was at least PROJECTED to be drafted, but both of these guys have a much better offensive game and are more interested defenders as well (saying a lot for a couple of JUCOs).

I love both of these guys but neither are tall enough at 6'2 or good enough athletes a high draft choice for playing the 2.  Macon has really improved his assets and handling the rock as a PG.  So he might have a better NBA future.  NBA is a different animal.

alohawg

Watching the Pelicans Jrue Holiday and had to give a double take on one of his fade away shots. I see a lot of Barford watching this guy play, j/s.
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King Kong

Quote from: RazorPiggie on February 20, 2018, 10:23:52 pm
Neither will make the NBA. If Gafford doesn't develop a decent shot he won't make it either.

You are plum crazy if you think Gafford won't be in an NBA roster as is.

Now does he need to improve to be more than shot blocking big playing spotty mins off the bench? Absolutely. But dude is a NBA player as is.

widespreadsooie


widespreadsooie

Quote from: PygmalionEffect2 on February 20, 2018, 12:39:34 pm
Macon reminds me of Beverly when he was here. 

Been a while back so may be mis-remembering, but I remember Beverly being thin and was very surprised at the success he's had in the NBA, thinking he was too small as well.

He probably showed better defensive skills than Macon while here.

Quickness and speed, Macon is pretty fast, but don't watch enough pro ball to compare him with Beverly there.  I suspect Beverly is faster at this point in his career.

I see Macon and Barford making good money outside the NBA with maybe a chance to latch on later like Beverly did.

Beverly was an offensive threat inside the arc, Macon- not so much. And yes, there's a huge disparity on the defensive side of the ball when comaparing the two.

widespreadsooie

Quote from: PygmalionEffect2 on February 20, 2018, 10:42:40 pm
Macon is the best pro prospect of the two at this point.

His game held up a lot better against NBA type athleticism tonight than did Barford's.

Barford is not NBA material, just doesn't have a well-rounded game.  He's been pressing all year for stats and it's hurt the team.

You can't be serious

Pinto

Quote from: alohawg on April 14, 2018, 10:15:10 pm
Watching the Pelicans Jrue Holiday and had to give a double take on one of his fade away shots. I see a lot of Barford watching this guy play, j/s.

JB has a long way to go on both sides of the ball to be like Jrue. JB has to develop a crossover to make it or have a shot at staying in the league.

mbgrulz

The main thing that keeps them out of the league is the fact that there are much better players at their positions available for teams to choose from.

To me, Neither can guard their spot at the NBA level. Macon might get there, but we all saw how poor a defensive team we were this year. With those two leading the way. Barford is bigger right now, but he honestly needs to drop 10-15 lbs and lean up. I noticed in several games this year that he is unable to get past his man in a 1 on 1 situation. I think that was mainly due to some bad weight. His conditioning hurt him and the team some this year. He is great at making contested shots, tho. Macon's shot will give him a chance, but it's a really slim one. I'd love to be wrong and see them both flourish in the league!

Rome26

Quote from: mbgrulz on April 15, 2018, 07:46:13 am
The main thing that keeps them out of the league is the fact that there are much better players at their positions available for teams to choose from.

To me, Neither can guard their spot at the NBA level. Macon might get there, but we all saw how poor a defensive team we were this year. With those two leading the way. Barford is bigger right now, but he honestly needs to drop 10-15 lbs and lean up. I noticed in several games this year that he is unable to get past his man in a 1 on 1 situation. I think that was mainly due to some bad weight. His conditioning hurt him and the team some this year. He is great at making contested shots, tho. Macon's shot will give him a chance, but it's a really slim one. I'd love to be wrong and see them both flourish in the league!

This is Barford's biggest flaw. He doesn't have the handles or quickness to take his man off the dribble.

Hawg Red

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on February 19, 2018, 11:53:16 pm
Barford is twice the player Fortson was, Fortson was just more of a PG

Barford would be lucky to have the professional career Fortson has had.

sickboy

Quote from: Hawg Red on April 15, 2018, 10:01:45 am
Barford would be lucky to have the professional career Fortson has had.

Fortson was averaging 30ppg in China last year. The CBA limits foreign players on teams, so it hurts the overall product, but the CBA is a pretty good league to be averaging 30ppg in. It's not Spain or Turkey, but Fortson is in his prime, even if it's not the NBA.

So yeah, Barford would be doing alright if he was able to do that.

raz1965

The NBA is a step above good talent, Macon an Barford are just dozens of other kids that have talent but not elite talent, slim chance either one has a NBA career, if they restructure the G league maybe. They will always be Razorbacks however, and I do wish both success.

k.c.hawg

Quote from: sickboy on April 15, 2018, 12:52:56 pm
Fortson was averaging 30ppg in China last year. The CBA limits foreign players on teams, so it hurts the overall product, but the CBA is a pretty good league to be averaging 30ppg in. It's not Spain or Turkey, but Fortson is in his prime, even if it's not the NBA.

So yeah, Barford would be doing alright if he was able to do that.

Yeah Fortson is doing well!!

Courtney Fortson of Zhejiang Guanghsa is the MVP of Chinese CBA.
Fortson ended the regular season averaging 31.1 points, 12 assists, 7.8 rebounds and 2.7 steals per game.

Ding Yanyuhang is the local player MVP. The Chinese averaged 25.7 points, 5.4 rebounds and 3.2 assists per game.

The CBA pays very well and unlike some of the Russian teams you don't have to deal with payroll issues. CBA is paying very well, and is one of the best non NBA options.

Just sitting on the deck with a cold beer and a hot tequila watching the razorbacks roam.

razorback1829

Quote from: raz1965 on April 15, 2018, 02:45:08 pm
The NBA is a step above good talent, Macon an Barford are just dozens of other kids that have talent but not elite talent, slim chance either one has a NBA career, if they restructure the G league maybe. They will always be Razorbacks however, and I do wish both success.

Think Barford will have a shot. Hearing several teams are reaching out after his MVP performance at the PIT.

Hawg Red

Quote from: sickboy on April 15, 2018, 12:52:56 pm
Fortson was averaging 30ppg in China last year. The CBA limits foreign players on teams, so it hurts the overall product, but the CBA is a pretty good league to be averaging 30ppg in. It's not Spain or Turkey, but Fortson is in his prime, even if it's not the NBA.

So yeah, Barford would be doing alright if he was able to do that.

Indeed. And he played in the NBA on a couple of ocassions. Couple cups of coffee in the NBA and MVP of the CBA is much more than most professional ballers achieve.

BannerMountainMan

Quote from: Hawg Red on April 15, 2018, 09:00:07 pm
Indeed. And he played in the NBA on a couple of ocassions. Couple cups of coffee in the NBA and MVP of the CBA is much more than most professional ballers achieve.
i guarantee Barford plays more than 10 games in the NBA, that's how many Fortson played. We will see
"Michael Qualls with the dunk at the buzzer, it goes and Arkansas wins, it goes and Arkansas wins"

alohawg

Quote from: razorback1829 on April 15, 2018, 03:24:42 pm
Think Barford will have a shot. Hearing several teams are reaching out after his MVP performance at the PIT.

Nice,  hope both our guys get a good look.
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Hogs run wild

neither are elite as some have already said. if they have a chance to earn an income doing what they love, even if it means overseas, then they should go for it. pay the dues and work on their game. then maybe, just maybe an Andre Ingram type of scenario can happen for them. it's going to be tough for either one of them to make the league.
We all got a chicken duck woman thing waiting for us.