Ronnie's Stock Falling

[SGH2244]

As I have been watching http://nbadraft.net/ for the past year Ronnie has slowly fallen out of the "Lucky 13" (to 14 currently) after peaking at #6.  This site does do a fairly realistic job of evaluating players talent, team needs and draft position and I think they are right on with Brewer.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see him fall into the twenties before long.  He really isn't NBA ready, as you could clearly see by his Hudini disapearing act against Bucknell.  He needs to come back next year, actually show up to play hard during the SEC/Tourny season and solidify himself as a top 10 pick.

SGH   

[Hogs4Ever]

I know it will be good for the team and I think it will be best for Ronnie to come back his senior year and polish his game.

[Jim Harris]

I know it will be good for the team and I think it will be best for Ronnie to come back his senior year and polish his game.

we need to hire a swing man coach to help him.

[hogsNbeer]

He's not ready for the NBA.... I can see that myself.....  :razorback:

[hog caller]

he might be well served to return, but will the hogs be if he does?

he will be recruited as a point guard and we have three coming next year that are actually point guards plus McCurdy. leaves Ronnie to play swing and someone to show him how to do that.

but he's not ready for the NBA yet.

[HognotinMemphis]

Pippen thinks he is ready for the NBA, more so that Duke's Reddick. Pippen thinks he is one of the top 5 available. And Pippen knows basketball, doesn't he?

But I know more than Pippen and I say Ronnie is not ready for the NBA on the defensive side. However, the value to Ronnie in staying with Heath another year is nil, so he should bale on U of A and go pro.

[hogsNbeer]

Pippen thinks he is ready for the NBA, more so that Duke's Reddick. Pippen thinks he is one of the top 5 available. And Pippen knows basketball, doesn't he?

But I know more than Pippen and I say Ronnie is not ready for the NBA on the defensive side. However, the value to Ronnie in staying with Heath another year is nil, so he should bale on U of A and go pro.

Pippen must have been drunk.... Redick is the best player in College basketball right now....   All I have to say is, that I hope Pippen understands the fact that without Jordan, he wouldn't be where he is now....   With that said, I wouldnt' hold alot of stock in what Pippen thinks....... Because if he thinks Brewer is more ready for the NBA than Redick-- well that is just LAUGHABLE.......

[King-Tusk]

Pippen thinks he is ready for the NBA, more so that Duke's Reddick. Pippen thinks he is one of the top 5 available. And Pippen knows basketball, doesn't he?

But I know more than Pippen and I say Ronnie is not ready for the NBA on the defensive side. However, the value to Ronnie in staying with Heath another year is nil, so he should bale on U of A and go pro.

Pippen must have been drunk.... Redick is the best player in College basketball right now....   All I have to say is, that I hope Pippen understands the fact that without Jordan, he wouldn't be where he is now....   With that said, I wouldnt' hold alot of stock in what Pippen thinks....... Because if he thinks Brewer is more ready for the NBA than Redick-- well that is just LAUGHABLE.......

I want Ronnie to come back as I don't think he's ready for the NBA yet, but Reddick is just another Duke player who will fall flat in the NBA.  How many Duke players actually become successful at the next level?

[songofthesword]

just becuse you are a good, great college player doesn't mean your game will translate to the NBA.

Shooting is just one asset of basketball.. it's ronnie's major weakness, and it isn't horrible.

Reddick has trouble getting his shot off against taller, more athletic guards.

Considering Reddick is a shooting guard, and will have to face the likes of Dewayne Wade, Paul Pierce, Tracy McGrady on a nightly basis, I wouldn't be in a rush to draft him in the lottery either.

Brewer on the other hand is going to fill up a stat sheet. As long as you don't expect a superstar out of him, he's a pretty safe pick

[zwhogfan]

Brewer is a safe pick as a PG, however, I think he needs another year of work. But whatever Ronnie decides, more power to him.

[wishyjoshy]

Too many people equate bringing the ballup the court to being a point guard.  I don't care if Ronnie, McCurdy, Erwin, Smith, or even Manimal brings the ball up the court.  Many NBA teams have point forwards, now.  As long as we don't have match up problems, play Brewer with McCurdy and Erwin and just let any one of the three bring it up and get us into our *cough* offense *cough.*  We might even be able to set up a secondary break.  That's not too advanced is it? 

Hiring a swing man coach for Ronnie is probably one of the best ideas I have heard in a long time.  HIM mentioned Pippen.  Why couldn't we get Pippen to work with Ronnie in the off season.  If the University can't do it due to violations, etc., why wouldn't Ron Sr. get it arrranged?  I can't think of any one better than Michael's sidekick to teach Ronnie how to be a great sidekick in the league. 

As far as Ronnie being better than J.J. Reddick, I'm not sold on that.  I don't like Reddick, but I still wouldn't say that Ronnie is better.  Gay, Morrison, Thomas, O'Bryant (from Bradley), and Williams (UCONN) would be my top 5.

[Jim Harris]

Pippen thinks he is ready for the NBA, more so that Duke's Reddick. Pippen thinks he is one of the top 5 available. And Pippen knows basketball, doesn't he?

But I know more than Pippen and I say Ronnie is not ready for the NBA on the defensive side. However, the value to Ronnie in staying with Heath another year is nil, so he should bale on U of A and go pro.

I guess Pippen doesn't want to brag on himself, but no way does Brewer come close to shooting the ball as well as Pippen did, in high school or college, and he won't as a pro, either.

[Apathy]

Pippen thinks he is ready for the NBA, more so that Duke's Reddick. Pippen thinks he is one of the top 5 available. And Pippen knows basketball, doesn't he?

But I know more than Pippen and I say Ronnie is not ready for the NBA on the defensive side. However, the value to Ronnie in staying with Heath another year is nil, so he should bale on U of A and go pro.

I agree with the defensive comment.  RB will be drafted as a point gaurd, and I think his offensive skills are good enough for the position (particularly his passing), but that also means that he is going to be playing man to man defense against the likes of Allen Iverson.  That's scary, Iverson would hang 50 on him.

[murray-vegas]

I want Ronnie to come back as I don't think he's ready for the NBA yet, but Reddick is just another Duke player who will fall flat in the NBA.  How many Duke players actually become successful at the next level?

Can I ask what is successful at the NBA level? Do you judge by the number of rings or points or what? Longevity of a career? Duke has put 44 players in the NBA so I'm not sure as how that's not at least something to give them credit for. Only 5 of them have 10,000+ career points with Brand and Maggette having good shots of joining this group. Arkansas has had 20 with 2 making the 10000+ point mark with maybe JJ being the 3rd(I think Corliss will end up short).

[wishyjoshy]

Where are you getting those numbers, Murray-vegas?

[murray-vegas]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/colleges/

[zwhogfan]

very good info, thanks for the link

[nwarazfan]

just becuse you are a good, great college player doesn't mean your game will translate to the NBA.

Shooting is just one asset of basketball.. it's ronnie's major weakness, and it isn't horrible.

Reddick has trouble getting his shot off against taller, more athletic guards.

Considering Reddick is a shooting guard, and will have to face the likes of Dewayne Wade, Paul Pierce, Tracy McGrady on a nightly basis, I wouldn't be in a rush to draft him in the lottery either.

Brewer on the other hand is going to fill up a stat sheet. As long as you don't expect a superstar out of him, he's a pretty safe pick

RB will do well in the NBA next year if he goes.  He is a very good open court player.  He can finish and he can make plays passing ie the second half vs Tenn.  Put him on the right team(not the Pistons) that doesn't get bogged down in halfcourt, grind it out games and he will be just fine.  And we focus on his 3 pt shooting but he has a nice mid range game and slashing game too.  And the inside won't be clogged like it is here with our no-perimeter shooting team therefore more openings will exist for him.

I'll be happy if he stays but no reason to say he should wait.  Next season, the phenoms who are forced to college or prep school for a year with the new rule will be entering the draft.  He can either stay and try and get better playing in the college game with inferior teammates in a different style game than the NBA or he can go ahead and start to learn the NBA game.  A player only has a limited number of years to play professionally and earn.  Why waste one?

[nwarazfan]

Where are you getting those numbers, Murray-vegas?

Stop the jealousy.

[wishyjoshy]

Where are you getting those numbers, Murray-vegas?

Stop the jealousy.

Nice.  lol.

How can I be jealous when UNC has put 64 players in the league? (That doesn't include Marvin Williams, Rashad McCants, Raymond Felton, Sean May, and Jawad Williams)  13 of them have over 10,000 points and Jamison will after this season. 

Oh yeah, UNC is only beaten by UCLA (67) when it comes to putting players in the league.  Kentucky is third with 60.

[othermac]

i am with pipkin, i think ronnie has more potential as a pro player than reddick. we have seen reddick at his very best, he will never excel in the pros like he has at the college level. he was in his element this year, the defenders in the pros will slow him down considerably. reddick has reached his apex, ronnie is still rising.

[King-Tusk]

My point about JJ was that I don't see him transitioning to the NBA any better than the vast majority of Coach K's players.  By pure numbers of players who have gone pro from Duke, it looks good.  Then you look at how long they play and you see that they don't cut it.  They don't make the transition well.  JJ, imo will not be do any better.  The pro guards will Prodigy his ass by "smackin that b*tch up!!"  

Now back to this post,  Ronnie would do well to stay to sharpen his skills.  If he does go pro now, I think he will be a role player from the bench at best.  Either way I'm fine with, it's a win-win for Ronnie.  

[wishyjoshy]

I hate Duke!

KArma for you!

[nwarazfan]

My point about JJ was that I don't see him transitioning to the NBA any better than the vast majority of Coach K's players.  By pure numbers of players who have gone pro from Duke, it looks good.  Then you look at how long they play and you see that they don't cut it.  They don't make the transition well.  JJ, imo will not be do any better.  The pro guards will Prodigy his ass by "smackin that b*tch up!!"  

Now back to this post,  Ronnie would do well to stay to sharpen his skills.  If he does go pro now, I think he will be a role player from the bench at best.  Either way I'm fine with, it's a win-win for Ronnie.  

JJ will be a nice role player in the NBA.  Dale Ellis, Chuck Person, Craig Hogdes, John Paxson,...they all had good careers being mostly one dimensional scorers.  He also has a nice mid range game and toughness.  Add that to the fact that shooting is horrific on many NBA teams and he'll be a contributor.  I don't know if he'll ever make an All Star team but he'll be a good pro.  A shorter version of Stojakavic.

And RB as a role player from the bench at best?

[murray-vegas]

Depends on the system I think that the player gets into. I think JJ would be best served trying to mimic a Rip hamilton/Reggie Miller type player who scrambles off back screens to pop his shot. Put him in a poor set like Golden State where the person with the ball creates his own shot won't work for him.

I also don't like the fact that people are comparing Brewer to a poor mans Marquis Daniels.

[cardinalhawg]

When looking at the scoring numbers, Ronnie Brewer's season high, (and I believe career high) in points is 26 in a game.  Riddick has averaged more than that for the season.  Keep in mind Riddick is doing this while being the focal point of opposing defenses and at the same time playing at the highest level of Division I basketball.  One doesn't average over 27 a game by accident and by being left open all the time, playing the ACC.

It is hard for me to evaluate Ronnie Brewer.  He might excel at the next level, and he might be better served by playing with better talent, but he has not shown the ability to dominate.  In fact, I would see him having a tough time getting his shot off as well.  He may be 6-7,  but he is not the best at creating his own shot, and really looks awkward when trying a fadeaway.   Also, Ronnie did not exactly light it up from the field this year either, just shooting over 44%.

[King-Tusk]

 Murray....you don't have to like everything.  

[wishyjoshy]

Think about Reddick playing second or third fiddle to Bryant and Bryant (since he takes enough shots for two people) or Bryant and Odom, Lebron, Hughes, and Illgaskus (sp).  I think Reddick is already better than Daymon Jones, who played for Miami last year and did a wonderful job hitting clutch three's for them, but has slipped in a more visable role in Cleveland.  At worst, he is a more atheltic Steve Kerr and at best he is the second coming of Dan "the man" Majerle (sp).

Ronnie is a Magic-Style or Showtime player.  In the right system, he could be as good of a sidekick as Scottie "too hottie" Pippen.  I don't think he is strong enough (yet) to be the second option behind a Dwight Howard or Tim Duncan, but I do think he could do great things with McGrady and Yao Ming.

[King-Tusk]

Think about Reddick playing second or third fiddle to Bryant and Bryant (since he takes enough shots for two people) or Bryant and Odom, Lebron, Hughes, and Illgaskus (sp).  I think Reddick is already better than Daymon Jones, who played for Miami last year and did a wonderful job hitting clutch three's for them, but has slipped in a more visable role in Cleveland.  At worst, he is a more atheltic Steve Kerr and at best he is the second coming of Dan "the man" Majerle (sp).

Ronnie is a Magic-Style or Showtime player.  In the right system, he could be as good of a sidekick as Scottie "too hottie" Pippen.  I don't think he is strong enough (yet) to be the second option behind a Dwight Howard or Tim Duncan, but I do think he could do great things with McGrady and Yao Ming.

Nice analysis J.  Love the Majerle reference.  He rocked

Karma

[HognotinMemphis]

Pippen thinks he is ready for the NBA, more so that Duke's Reddick. Pippen thinks he is one of the top 5 available. And Pippen knows basketball, doesn't he?

But I know more than Pippen and I say Ronnie is not ready for the NBA on the defensive side. However, the value to Ronnie in staying with Heath another year is nil, so he should bale on U of A and go pro.

Pippen must have been drunk.... Redick is the best player in College basketball right now....   All I have to say is, that I hope Pippen understands the fact that without Jordan, he wouldn't be where he is now....   With that said, I wouldnt' hold alot of stock in what Pippen thinks....... Because if he thinks Brewer is more ready for the NBA than Redick-- well that is just LAUGHABLE.......

Pippen said that shooting off screens doesn't work in the NBA like it does in college. He said Reddick does well at Duke due to all the screens he gets and that he will have to create his shot on his own more in the NBA. He also said that Reddick is not athletic enough and is slower than what is required for the NBA. You'll have to take this up with Mr. Pippen.

[murray-vegas]

Pippen said that shooting off screens doesn't work in the NBA like it does in college. He said Reddick does well at Duke due to all the screens he gets and that he will have to create his shot on his own more in the NBA. He also said that Reddick is not athletic enough and is slower than what is required for the NBA. You'll have to take this up with Mr. Pippen.

NBA screens are different from those at UCA? Get the hell out of here.

[The Truth]

I want Ronnie to come back as I don't think he's ready for the NBA yet, but Reddick is just another Duke player who will fall flat in the NBA.  How many Duke players actually become successful at the next level?
[/quote]

In the old days, the NBA used college basketball as a kind of development league, waiting for players to get bigger, stronger, more skilled--in a word, "ready" for NBA play. But The Truth is that things don't work that way anymore. Now, the NBA draft is about "talent" and "upside"--more and more, NBA teams are willing to speculate on the future. Again and again, we see high-school phenoms and one-year wonders drafted ahead of proven college players: Lebron, Darko, and Carmelo Anthony all went before Dwayne Wade. Duke's Luol Deng went in the top ten after one year in college, and he was a very raw talent at the time. Jermaine O'Neal rode NBA pine for years before developing into an All-Star. Darko is still riding it.

Maybe you want Ronnie to stay because you love the Hogs and want to see them win. That's cool. But it really has nothing to do with him being "ready" or not. Players can keep developing at the next level, too. The difference between going to the NBA now and going next year might just be another year of enormous paychecks.

As for Duke players in the NBA, here are some significant ones from the last decade:

Brand (All-star)
Hill (All-star)
Laettner (All-star)
Maggette
Battier
Deng
Duhon

I wish Hog alumni could claim such success.

WPS!

[pfrg999]

Pippen thinks he is ready for the NBA, more so that Duke's Reddick. Pippen thinks he is one of the top 5 available. And Pippen knows basketball, doesn't he?

But I know more than Pippen and I say Ronnie is not ready for the NBA on the defensive side. However, the value to Ronnie in staying with Heath another year is nil, so he should bale on U of A and go pro.

Damn HIM... are you stirring the Pot or what... BTW ... I believe you probably do know more than Pippen... so do alot of us...

[Ben Steiger]

Pippen thinks he is ready for the NBA, more so that Duke's Reddick. Pippen thinks he is one of the top 5 available. And Pippen knows basketball, doesn't he?

But I know more than Pippen and I say Ronnie is not ready for the NBA on the defensive side. However, the value to Ronnie in staying with Heath another year is nil, so he should bale on U of A and go pro.

Pippen must have been drunk.... Redick is the best player in College basketball right now....   All I have to say is, that I hope Pippen understands the fact that without Jordan, he wouldn't be where he is now....   With that said, I wouldnt' hold alot of stock in what Pippen thinks....... Because if he thinks Brewer is more ready for the NBA than Redick-- well that is just LAUGHABLE.......

Dude, great college player does NOT equal great NBA/NFL/MLB player by a long shot. That's crazy logic. If that is the case, then how come all these high draft picks bust, and all these unknowns/free agents/low round picks make it?

Tell me, please...

BTW, as for the past two Razorbacks to get drafted high, they've done well.

Joe Johnson - #10 overall, NBA All-Star.
Corliss Williamson - starter, solid 6th man.
Jannero Pargo - bench player, can light it up.

These three are as good, if not better, than three comparable Dukies...

[murray-vegas]

BTW, as for the past two Razorbacks to get drafted high, they've done well.

Joe Johnson - #10 overall, NBA All-Star.
Corliss Williamson - starter, solid 6th man.
Jannero Pargo - bench player, can light it up.

These three are as good, if not better, than three comparable Dukies...

As much as I hate Duke I'd never make this statement. Johnson is good right now but I'd rank Brand ahead of him personally. Corliss avg 11 pts over his career. Pargo is lucky to average 5 pts a game if that. Put down the Kool-aid. Some quick hits on Duke players from that same time period.

G. Hill-drinks sprite, avg 20 pts(career averages noted).
E. Brand-avg 20
C Maggette-underrated IMO avg 15
C Boozer- Gets some boards avg 14
C Laettner- Always seen during March avg 14 pts a game.
L Deng- 11pts
Dunleavy- 10 pts
Battier-10 pts

[CampuspostmanHOG]

JMHO....I say Brewer returns for his senior year. Just a hunch.

[cardinalhawg]

BTW, as for the past two Razorbacks to get drafted high, they've done well.

Joe Johnson - #10 overall, NBA All-Star.
Corliss Williamson - starter, solid 6th man.
Jannero Pargo - bench player, can light it up.

These three are as good, if not better, than three comparable Dukies...

As much as I hate Duke I'd never make this statement. Johnson is good right now but I'd rank Brand ahead of him personally. Corliss avg 11 pts over his career. Pargo is lucky to average 5 pts a game if that. Put down the Kool-aid. Some quick hits on Duke players from that same time period.

G. Hill-drinks sprite, avg 20 pts(career averages noted).
E. Brand-avg 20
C Maggette-underrated IMO avg 15
C Boozer- Gets some boards avg 14
C Laettner- Always seen during March avg 14 pts a game.
L Deng- 11pts
Dunleavy- 10 pts
Battier-10 pts

Good Post.  It isn't like these Duke players have fallen flat on their faces.  There are some that haven't fared that well, like Danny Ferry, but Arkansas hasn't had many players to set the NBA on fire either.   Moncrief would have to be the best among former Razorbacks as far as faring in the NBA, and he isn't a Hall of Famer.  Of course, Pippen would be the best from the state in general.

Some are implying that Reddick cannot create his shot well enough, but Ronnie Brewer hasn't shot a great ability to beat guys off the dribble and create good shots for himself either. 

[Porquemada]

I wonder if Brewer or Reddick will refuse to enter a playoff game with a couple of seconds left because they weren't picked by the coach to shoot the final shot. This sounds like the actions of a guy who once played for the Bulls, name started with a "P" and ended with an "ippen". Who is Pippen scouting for these days? And since they were asking Pippen, what did Bill Cartwright have to say about Brewer and Reddick and their NBA chances?

[berryhog]

Pippen thinks he is ready for the NBA, more so that Duke's Reddick. Pippen thinks he is one of the top 5 available. And Pippen knows basketball, doesn't he?

But I know more than Pippen and I say Ronnie is not ready for the NBA on the defensive side. However, the value to Ronnie in staying with Heath another year is nil, so he should bale on U of A and go pro.

Pippen must have been drunk.... Redick is the best player in College basketball right now....   All I have to say is, that I hope Pippen understands the fact that without Jordan, he wouldn't be where he is now....   With that said, I wouldnt' hold alot of stock in what Pippen thinks....... Because if he thinks Brewer is more ready for the NBA than Redick-- well that is just LAUGHABLE.......

Pippen said that shooting off screens doesn't work in the NBA like it does in college. He said Reddick does well at Duke due to all the screens he gets and that he will have to create his shot on his own more in the NBA. He also said that Reddick is not athletic enough and is slower than what is required for the NBA. You'll have to take this up with Mr. Pippen.

Why would you defer any questions to Pippen since, as you stated above you know more than him ?  Just wondering why a great mind like yours would pass questions onto people with inferior game mentality ?